Good or Not?

[blckhawk542]

yoooo guys...i found a 16mm camera....looks pretty good for wat u get and the price...u think its worth it?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7531243356&category=4691&ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1#ebayphotohosting

[J.R. Hudson]

Yes and No.

You want to make sure you get a Reflex camera and I son't think this on is; in fact it appears to be the exact one I have.

[blckhawk542]

wats a Reflex camera do?

[Sirius_Doggy]

Reflex means you are actually viewing through the lens as opposed to an optical viewfinder.

That's what the "R" stands for in SLR on 35mm still cameras. The mirror allows you to view through the actual lens.

[blckhawk542]

ooooo

well..wat about this camera...it says it Reflex

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7530857251&category=11719&ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1

[discs of tron]

the bolex is the best mos 16mm camera out there, in my opinion. that one is one of the very early reflex models. the viewfinders in those were somewhat funky, with less magnification than the later ones. if it's in good shape, it'll be a perfectly serviceable camera. if you can afford it, look for a later model (they have a square base instead of that weird protrusion at the bottom.) rex-4 is a great camera. the beaulieu 16's are nice too, but they can be very finnicky and expensive to repair. if you're not trying to do synch sound, i definintely recommend bolexes. the arri s is great too, with lots of options like mags.

i like my krasnogorsk, but the registration is a bit funky.

[Barry_Green]

The Beaulieu R16 had the Bolex's number, feature-wise, except for what discs of tron said: they are finicky and frequently need repair. I had several of them, and they all developed registration problems.

Bolexes, especially after the Rex-2, and sometime in the Rex 1 line, have excellent registration.

The Beaulieu, while it's running, is a great little camera. Variable speeds, motor-driven, true reflex, fine-tuning to get a good simulation of sound sync, available 200' mags, etc... very nice little cameras. Bolexes are precision instruments, they're Swiss and they make you understand why people value Swiss manufacturing/engineering in cameras & clockwork.

[blckhawk542]

So which camera do you guys recommend then?

[Sirius_Doggy]

Sounds like Barry is saying the Bolex Rex-2 is the one to look for.

[Barry_Green]

Rex-2 or later. The Rex-4 is better in many ways, the Rex-5 is the most sought-after (because it can take an optional 400' magazine; the Rex-4 and earlier are all 100-ft daylight loads only).

[PDX_DVX]

With the "reflex" camera's, if you take your eye off the viewfinder, will they over expose the film? BTW, is how does this one look? Are lenses for these easy to find?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7530996274&category=4691&rd=1

[discs of tron]

the bolexes have a little lever next to the viewfinder that closes it and doesn't let any light in through the vf. not sure if the earlier models had this. some cameras' reflex systems are more susceptible to rear-end fogging than others. it's easy enough to either use gaffer's tape or your hand though. you should have a role of gangsta tape on hand anyhow, with any of these handwound 100' spool cams. it's always the best bet to wrap some around the door to avoid light leaks. and if you don't have a roll of g-tape in your bag, you shouldn't be shooting anything anyhow.

barry is right- the rex5 is the most sought after (and expensive.) however, the 400' mags on the bolex are such a pain in the ass that i'd rather change film 4 times as often. the mags are hard to come by, and they turn the bolex into a beast. it's like a last-minute fix on a camera that was never designed to take mags. rex 3 and 4 are the jam.

[PDX_DVX]

Oh yea, I always keep a roll of "gangsta-tape" handy. I have really been wanting to do 16mm, mainly for scenic/artistic and slo-motion stuff. I have NEVER had any experience with it though, and I am afraid I would just screw it up and waste all of my money....

[blckhawk542]

I hear ya PDX..i feel the same way u do. Ive never used film in my life...but i want to start learning how to shoot and process my own film. If you buy a good camera....then your set....but then again...you'll need a projecter too...those are like 300-700 dollars. Then devloping film. I'm gonna start taking a photography class in September...and they teach how to develop film. It shuldnt be as differnt with 16mm than it is with 35mm snapshot. Jus need tanks and more chemicals...i hope.

[Barry_Green]

Y'know, I just realized I have a Bolex here that someone asked me to sell for 'em on ebay. Let me check it out and see what it is and what it offers, and what kind of shape it's in, and you can decide if you'd be interested in it...

[PDX_DVX]

Barry, that would be awsome! Keep me posted!

[discs of tron]

by the way, fellas... hand-processing b/w film is fairly easy and you can do it with a kit that's readily available at any decent camera store. but if you're planning on self-processing color film, then don't. unless you want to spend thousands on equipment and you don't mind getting cancer.

[discs of tron]

btw, barry,
here's a great place to figure out what kind of bolex you're dealing with:
http://www.city-net.com/~fodder/bolex/history/

[blckhawk542]

but if you're planning on self-processing color film, then don't. unless you want to spend thousands on equipment and you don't mind getting cancer.


DAMN IT!!!....what if you were in a room with alot of moving ventalation? and worse a face mask? like those nose and mouth covers dentists use?...i found a tank for 16mm that isnt that exspensive...so the equipment isnt all that exspensive...but im worried cancer thing...

[discs of tron]

color is a whole new realm in terms of processing. the chemicals are much scarier. disposing of the used chemicals is a huge pain- you can't dump any of this stuff in your sink. you can get the processing kits for some color processes, but it's less forgiving for temperature, times, etc. if you're relly determined to proces color stuff, it can be done. but i think it's worth sending it to a good lab. b/w is great if you want to explore hand-processing.

[blckhawk542]

Scarier? is it like mutated acid? lol....How do u dispose the chemicals?

[PDX_DVX]

What sort of lense mount do Bolex's use? Is an external light meter required, or do they have a built in one?

[discs of tron]

c-count or rx mount. the reflex ones need the rx mount. they're physically the same size but there's a difference in how much of the lens hangs out being the mount.

yes they need a lightmeter. no big deal. lighmeters are very easy to use once you get the hang of it. some bolex kits were sold with a meter made just for bolexes. this would be good to get if you can find it, because bolexes use a different shutter angle/speed than just about any other movie or still camera. i believe it translates into about 1/80th of a sec at 24fps. with a regular meter, it's not too big a deal- you either set your shutter speed in between the 1/60 and 1/90 settings, or just set your meter for 1/90 if you're using neg and 1/60 if you're using reversal.

[Barry_S]

Doing your own color processing isn't significantly more complicated OR more hazardous than black and white processing. If you're shooting color negative stock, you do C-41 processing and if you shoot color reversal film, you'd process with E-6 chemicals. You can find the MSDS (material safety data sheets) for both processes at:

http://www.jobo-usa.com/msds/msds.htm

Neither kit contains carcinogenic chemicals, but you should do *any* processing in a well ventilated area. I believe both are 3 bath processes, so they're not a lot more complicated than processing B&W film--a few extra steps depending on which process you use. The used chemicals can be safely poured down the sink as long as you flush with copious amounts of water. Check out the Tetanol kits here:

http://www.jobo-usa.com/products.htm#Tetenal%20Photo%20Chemicals

Scarier? is it like mutated acid? lol....How do u dispose the chemicals?

[Barry_Green]

Regarding bolexes -- it's not so much that the shutter angle is different, it's that the Bolex uses a light-splitting prism instead of a mirror shutter. The prism diverts light up to the viewfinder, light that otherwise would have gone to the film. So a Bolex is usually about 1/3 of a stop slower than a comparable mirror-shutter camera. The way you compensate for that is by pretending it has a narrower shutter angle, but that's not actually what's happening.

It's also why Bolex viewfinders don't flicker.