Canon Scoopic

[Dyrseve989]

Id like to get a 16mm camera for some shorts that I plan to make, but I would like a camera thats the best for its price....low price

I was looking into the Canon Scoopic, and the reviews on the DS8 version werent so great, and I cant find reviews for the 16mm version. Is it a good camera?, has anyone had expereince with this camera?

-Matt-

[Barry_Green]

http://www.terrarimthemovie.com was shot entirely on Scoopics...

Scoopics are pretty decent little cameras, with decent lenses. But it depends on what your needs are. Scoopics are LOUD, so if you want to shoot scenes with dialogue, scoopics can be challenging to pull that off.

[thisiswells]

Given the high costs associated with film aquisition, it's hard for me to recognize the value of a 16mm Scoopic.

-It doesn't do Super16.
-It has a fixed lens.
-It only holds a couple minutes of film
-Stock / processing / transfer is still costly considering the minimums.

However, with good film it can be a great little camera. A cinematographer I often worked with while in Texas actually shot small segments of some stuff for another state's lotto ads on a Scoopic. This, of course, was a very small part of the ad. Everything else was Super16 on Arri SR3.

The Scoopic footage was apparently good enough.

[Dyrseve989]

Barry,

Do you have any experience with a scoopic outfitted with a crystal sync motor in it? Is it quiet enough to be able to do CU dialouge shots?

[Barry_Green]

I haven't used the crystal scoopic. From what I understand, it's every bit as loud; it's just synchronized.

I know people that love Scoopics, but frankly I don't get it -- just get a CP16. You'll get interchangeable lenses, 400' mags, and nearly silent operation. A Scoopic is primarily a wild (i.e., non-sync) camera for insert shots.

[Rosestar]

I haven't used the crystal scoopic. From what I understand, it's every bit as loud; it's just synchronized.

I know people that love Scoopics, but frankly I don't get it -- just get a CP16. You'll get interchangeable lenses, 400' mags, and nearly silent operation. A Scoopic is primarily a wild (i.e., non-sync) camera for insert shots.

Barry is right. I've shot a bit with the Scoopic. Setting one up for crystal sync is no problem, however, they do sound like a coffe grinder and blimping one for CU shots would be a pain in the ass. As an MOS camera, the Canon is sweet, especially where a low profile is needed. The 100' loads are a pain. Also be carefull about light leaks around the film door.

The CP-16R is one of the best values for independent filmmaking. It has a C-mount, so there are tons of lenses for it (I would look for one with the trusty 12-120 Angenieux, or better yet, the 10-150 which is harder to find and more expensive). The CP-16, without the reflex system is more common, but you will need a reflex zoom. The CPs are quiet, solid cameras.

One of my favorite 16mm cameras is the Cinema Products (CP) GSMO (called the "gizmo") is a great camera. It takes 400' mags, takes C-mount lenes, is light weight and very quiet. When I shot with one, even with my eye to the eyepiece (and ear right next to the camera), I could not tell the camera was running. I loved it.

There are a lot of good cameras out there. The Canon Scoopic will make good images, but there are other cameras with more features out there.

If you are looking to get into filmmaking. I would suggest getting a copy of "Independent Filmmaking" by Lenny Lipton. It is made for the filmmaker and goes through every aspect of it. It is kinda dated, but worth it. It has great descriptions of almost all of the 16mm cameras.

[watson]

here is a short film (or at least part of it, i ran out of space) i shot with a scoopic. (all mos).

http://astro.temple.edu/~watsona/identity.html

The camera wasnt bad but i would probably prefer to shot with a bolex over it. I didnt like how the Fstops worked on the camera and the view finder was a bitch to use (mostly becasue i have glasses). However its not a bad little camera.

[Dyrseve989]

Rosestar, thanks for the insighton the scoopic and the CP. I am acually not a beginner, but i realize why u thought that, since I am interested in 16mm cameras. I acually have read the book you recommended, and I have read many others, I am experienced in the film world of films, as well as the digital. I am more or less looking for an inexpensive 16mm camera for me to toy around with, and make small shorts with for me on my own, as opposed to the larger films I take part in. I was hoping for an honest assesment of this camera, and you guys gave me good information, thanks all

-Matt-

[Rosestar]

Rosestar, thanks for the insighton the scoopic and the CP. I am acually not a beginner, but i realize why u thought that, since I am interested in 16mm cameras. I acually have read the book you recommended, and I have read many others, I am experienced in the film world of films, as well as the digital. I am more or less looking for an inexpensive 16mm camera for me to toy around with, and make small shorts with for me on my own, as opposed to the larger films I take part in. I was hoping for an honest assesment of this camera, and you guys gave me good information, thanks all

-Matt-

No problem. I like the Bolex over the Scoopic. The Bolex is much more versatile, with interchangable lenses and a choice of motors. I found that the Scoopic is not as wide on the short end as I sometimes like and it is handy to toss a 10mm on the Bolex and shoot the whole room. Plus the Bolex was produced in much more quantity than the Scoopic and is easier to find used. Although, there are quite a few Scoopics on E-bay, cheap.

Here is a site with new and used Bolex stuff.

http://www.chamblesscineequip.com/

[dop16mm]

probably the best cheap camera to play around with would be a non-reflex bolex, they can often be found with lenses for about $300, much less than a reflex model. I find they even give a better image for intercutting with modern cameras as the light does not pass through the finder prism. Obviously you can't see through the lens while shooting, but anyone who has ever shot with a reflex bolex knows you can't see when shooting anyway. The paralax finder is just like a point and shoot camera.

[Dyrseve989]

Watson, im upset you couldnt fit all of it, you have me wanting to see the rest now

-Matt-

[Tom Ballard]

IMHO, one has to have shot a lot of film with the Scoopics to appreciate them Yes, they have their limitations, but the registration is rock steady, the imagery leaves little to be desired and they're built like Mack trucks. As Barry posted, Mike Conway shot Terrarium with an old gray Scoopic. Mike once told me about one of his Scoopics falling off a car mount as the car was being driven down the road. He picked it up and it was still running and if I remember correctly, still quite usable. The gray models (13-76mm zoom) compared to the Ms or MSs, are sub-par cams. I have two of them and an MS and while the MS is loud, it's quiet compared to the grays and the glass is much better.

The CP16R is the only low-end (below $10k) cam I know of that's quiet enough with which to shoot sync sound. It's a great cam, but one can buy six Scoopic MSs for the price of one CP16R (see Whitehouse AV or Visual Products). While I'd buy a Scoopic from ebay, I wouldn't buy a CP16R on ebay. Paul Hillman at Visual Products is the CP16R expert and the cost to clean and lube that cam is more than the purchase price of a clean Scoopic MS. And more often than not, if one is buying from ebay or a private seller, they will need servicing. So... when everything is taken into consideration, especially what one wants to do with the camera, the Scoopic is a great buy. I'd swear by my MS and throaty as it is (it doesn't rat-a-tat-tat like a sewing machine, but sounds like a muffled hemi), I still enjoy shooting with it and the imagery is beautiful by any standard.

You won't get hurt with a black Scoopic (M or MS), but try to stay away from the grays. Batteries are a problem, however and don't let those companies that recell them tell you that you can use the Scoopic 12-S charger to recharge those recelled with the NiMH cells- well, you can, but if you don't pull the batteries out of the charger within 2-3 hours, they'll fry. Unfortunately, I know this first hand.

Alan Gordon still does Scoopic repair, but the best pricing and equally good service can be found at UTPhoto (www.utphoto.com). They'll clean and lube a Scoopic for $150. Alan Gordon charges $425. The Ms and MSs can be crystal synched at The Film Group for $475.

If one is looking to start with 16mm, I'd recommend the old B&H Model 240, twin-turret cam. They can be found on ebay for next to nothing (I paid $20 for mine), they accept C mount lenses and are great little clockwork cameras. Mine is quite steady and will run for 52 seconds without rewinding. It's as noisey as the gray Scoopic, but again, great for someone wanting to get started without spending a bundle. C mount primes can easily be found on ebay, usually attached to a junk camera. I've bid and bought such cams solely for the lenses and told the seller to ship the lens and pitch the cam. I've got three lenses- 25, 50 and 75mm Taylor Hobson Cooke primes for less than $75. They're not up to today's primes, but they're superior to the old Angenieux zooms.

For the price, the Scoopic Ms and MSs are great cameras. For more money, the CP16R is even better. For next to no money, the B&H 240 provides imagery just as good as the first two, providing you have good lenses, which is what it boils down to most of the time anyway.

Tom Ballard

[avr]

Hi, I don´t know nothing about film cameras but the K-3 russian camera would be a good first camera? In Ebay they are cheap...

regards

[Rosestar]

If one is looking to start with 16mm, I'd recommend the old B&H Model 240, twin-turret cam. They can be found on ebay for next to nothing (I paid $20 for mine), they accept C mount lenses and are great little clockwork cameras. Mine is quite steady and will run for 52 seconds without rewinding. It's as noisey as the gray Scoopic, but again, great for someone wanting to get started without spending a bundle. C mount primes can easily be found on ebay, usually attached to a junk camera. I've bid and bought such cams solely for the lenses and told the seller to ship the lens and pitch the cam. I've got three lenses- 25, 50 and 75mm Taylor Hobson Cooke primes for less than $75. They're not up to today's primes, but they're superior to the old Angenieux zooms.
Tom Ballard

Tom,

Wow, the B&H 240, that's a blast from the past... it was the first camera we could shoot with in the film progam I had in college. I made two shorts with it and you are right it is a very robust camera. I did not realize they have gotten so cheap... (I gotta watch E-bay more closely). I do remeber it having a long run on it's clockwork motor (longer than a Bolex). Good info, thanks, :thumbsup:

[kingofcomedy86]

I have used the scoopic, and it is very fun to play around with, however I can only think of one really practical kind of use for it and that would be music videos. The final image is good, and it is about as self loading as you can get with this kind of 16mm. However, as everyone is saying it is very loud, which is why it would be good for music videos...shoot MOS the whole time. Sync the music in post. Pretty much the Bolex, Arri S, Scoopic...all those types of cameras aren't really practical in the 16mm film world except for learning purposes i think. I would try to shoot for something else if you are planning on using it for films or commercials with dialogue of any kind.

Alex