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View Full Version : Talk me out of buying the C300



mraaron895
09-28-2012, 02:34 PM
So as it stands I'm a self employed 23 year old in the video world. My main source of income is booking and filming weddings, which I really enjoy! I've also made some big connections with companies and have worked with some major brands and labels. In a few days my FS100 will be sold and I'll need a replacement camera. When the C100 was first announced I was really interested. However I've only ever owned pro-sumer cameras, and feel like I've always struggled with their drawbacks. Now I can't afford an Alexa, and I'm not interested in the RED cameras or their workflow. The C300 has the form factor for moving quickly at weddings, and the professional connections and codec when I'm in a commercial environment.
I know 4K is kind of the talk of the town and lots of people have invested in the FS700, which coming from the FS100 I have no interest in. But the reality is that even when 4K televisions are in every living room in the world TV's will have to be 100+ inches for a viewer to take advantage of that resolution. Or sit a foot away with a magnifying glass on their 50inch TV.


So while this sounds like a rant, which it really isn't, I'm really trying to flush out my train of thought for the incredibly smart and talented people here on DVXUSER. Have you found that owning or using the C300 allows you more piece of mind and confidence when working in a professional environment? And is the C300 a camera you feel you can use for the next 5 years?

Please no responses about how its not the tool, its the operator. A skilled operator can use any tool wisely, but some tools are better to work with.

simonpwood
09-28-2012, 02:52 PM
I live in Uganda, and while there is not a big film industry out here we do get a lot of film crews from numerous different channels coming out here to film stuff all the time. In the last 8 months I met 11 different International documentary crews. 3 of them were using Sony XDCams. 1 of them was using a mixture of DSLRs (5DMk2 and 7D). 1 of them was using a RED1 MX. 1 of them was using 2 Canon XF300 cameras. 5 of them were using C300's, all of them with the EF mount.

I'm pretty shocked about how popular that camera seems to be with TV documentary crews; these are guys working on Planet Doctors, various Discovery style travel shows, independent shows for UK production companies, and some BBC productions. All of the crews rave about the camera; its reliability especially (it works well in this humid hot and dusty environment). A couple of the C300 crews also had some Canon XF cameras with them as well, as B cameras.

It doesn't seem to be a popular camera on internet forums; but meanwhile working TV crews seem to love it.

Liam Hall
09-28-2012, 03:34 PM
I don't see any camera as a five year investment. I like the C300, I shoot with it a lot, but I'd be staggered if I'm still shooting on one in one year, let alone five.

Noel Evans
09-28-2012, 03:43 PM
Have you found that owning or using the C300 allows you more piece of mind and confidence when working in a professional environment? And is the C300 a camera you feel you can use for the next 5 years?

Please no responses about how its not the tool, its the operator. A skilled operator can use any tool wisely, but some tools are better to work with.

On the first part of your question, just as an example: Shooting a TVC this week just gone and used my C300 on the job - just didnt think about the camera at all on the shoot day ( I had done prep etc ). Just got on with the job. Camera never slowed me down. I trust it to do what its capable of when asked.

Is the C300 a camera I can use for the next 5 years? Hard to say - it depends on my clients. Most currently easily get into the C300 when I show the some images from bits and pieces Ive shot. On the other hand Ive got an Epic shoot booked for January. Just a matter of the Epic is appropriate in this instance with a bunch of over crank shots required. ( C300 not the cam for over crank).

Me personally - C300 is a magic little camera. Does what you want 9 out of every 10 times. I really enjoy using it. It loves it when I create plenty of lighting contrast - equally its ready to be stripped down and go light. Shot a couple of interviews on a - well what you guys would call a cattle ranch a few weeks ago - these people have bulls that are extremely high priced and highly prized around the world so, this was a good paying client. Had to shoot them in the middle of nowhere - cattle in the BG. I went light with the camera, slung the tripod - shots looked great.

Every two weeks I have at least one green screen shoot I use the C300 on. Always easy - but requires a little tweaking on the in cam settings.

For me: I get solid images every time in different environments, that always satisfies whoever Im shooting for. At the end of the day thats what I need.

If you genuinely:

1/ Think the C300 is going to give you that extra freedom to get on with creating

and

2/ Wont put you into hock and will pay for itself quick smart

then

Im not going to try and talk you out of it :)

mraaron895
09-28-2012, 03:44 PM
@simonpwood
Thanks for the response, I like hearing that the camera can take some "abuse" that's what I'm looking for. It's also interesting that the camera has been so quickly accepted for documentary and independent productions who travel. It sounds like it's making a dent in the 2/3 inch cameras that have long been the camera de facto in that market.

@Liam Hall
I' be interested to hear where you think the C300 will fall short in the next 5 years? It's one of the few cameras that can meet broadcast quality standards today. Do you see TV production standards changing dramatically in the next few years?

mraaron895
09-28-2012, 03:52 PM
@Noel Evans
Thank you for the information. Most of the projects I work on are in a fast paced environment with sometimes little ability for prep, as a lot of productions now a days are. Would you personally lean towards shooting with the C300 over RED if you were in a similar working situation?

Andrew S
09-28-2012, 03:54 PM
Hi there,

Ive been in the video business since S VHS and the first Sony VX100. No camera will last 5 years not if you want to keep up to date. At present l have had the C300 since end of Feb and it is a truly great camera. A joy to use, fast flexible with just fab images if you get the correct exposure. Not on glitch or minor problem, and its low light qualities are beyond anything out there. Yes its 1920 x 1080 but my productions are never used more than 720.

Get the C300, use it, earn money on it, then if something better comes out in 8 months, trade in and move up. In general l have found it important to move early and not to hang on to cameras. Ok l bought my C300 for say 10,000 kitting out another 2000 i use the camera for 12 months trade it in and get say 7000, thats a lose of 5000.00 by 12 so the camera has cost 416.00 per month, less than a days worK! try hiring it per month for that! additionally you get in the UK tax off set for selling early so you with the tax refund its more like 350 per month.

If you can't earn the money from it then its a burden, my C300 paid for its self within 6 weeks, so when l trade it in for the next best thing to come along its a win win situation.

Hope that helps

Noel Evans
09-28-2012, 03:57 PM
@Noel Evans
Thank you for the information. Most of the projects I work on are in a fast paced environment with sometimes little ability for prep, as a lot of productions now a days are. Would you personally lean towards shooting with the C300 over RED if you were in a similar working situation?

Absolutely - without question.

mraaron895
09-28-2012, 04:02 PM
@Andrew S
Thank's for the response. I completely agree with your thought process. I take my business seriously and have always felt that if I invest in the best equipment I can afford it will in turn attract the best quality clients (also the most paying).

macgregor
09-28-2012, 04:02 PM
I cant think of any other camera better for weddings than the C300. Small, lightweight, built in NDs and ultra high sensitive (for those dark churches). Batteries are cheap and light and last very long. And you can use Canon EOS lenses which helps save money in glass.
I see two downsides however:
- overpriced
- bad ergonomics for handheld

mraaron895
09-28-2012, 04:07 PM
@macgregor
Thanks for your input. The C100 was very tempting especially with it's price point. But the C300 just does what I want a camera to do. What more would you want the C300 to have in order to not consider it to be overpriced? Besides slomotion and 10bit output?

macgregor
09-28-2012, 04:15 PM
@macgregor
Thanks for your input. The C100 was very tempting especially with it's price point. But the C300 just does what I want a camera to do. What more would you want the C300 to have in order to not consider it to be overpriced? Besides slomotion and 10bit output?

Well those are two big points. Either that or a 50% discount on the price.
Whats stoping you from getting the C100? It might be even be better for you. Half the price of the C300. Eos mount anyway. Rear LCD (I find the lcd poition on the c300 not ideal in terms of balance), and since you're shooting weddings does it matter its 420? Youre going to end up doing a bluray with those same specs and I doubt youll be doing any secondary color corrections anway

mraaron895
09-28-2012, 04:28 PM
@macgregor
While I do a lot of weddings I'm also really involved in bigger commercial productions. The C300 has the professional connections, codec and workflow all built in. I really want a camera that will fit in both environments without have to add on accessories.

I personally feel like if I was working with a professional camera instead of a DSLR or prosumer camera I'd be able to continue to advance my client market.

macgregor
09-28-2012, 04:29 PM
Then get a scarlet...

mraaron895
09-28-2012, 04:33 PM
@macgregor
A good suggestion. But I don't think I could move as fast as I need to with the Scarlet or any RED camera. My workflow both in the field and in post needs to be quick.

macgregor
09-28-2012, 04:34 PM
Scarlet + blackmagic hyperdeck or atomos ninja. 10bit.422. Perfect workflow. Cheap. XD

Kegan
09-28-2012, 04:36 PM
^ Agreed. Atomos Ninja on a Scarlet, recording to Prores is a great alternative!

macgregor
09-28-2012, 04:39 PM
^ Agreed. Atomos Ninja on a Scarlet, recording to Prores is a great alternative!

It is at least more future proof (prores or avid dnxhd for weddings, and 4K for commercials), probably easier to sell in a couple years, sensor can be upgraded... Downside is the lack of NDs.

mraaron895
09-28-2012, 04:43 PM
Very true for the commercial world or set environment. But for the field and in uncontrollable situations without lighting? Or no light?

mraaron895
09-28-2012, 04:45 PM
I should also say thank you to everyone who has replied. When making a purchase of this amount my goal is to ask as many questions as possible and try to disprove my pre-conceived theories.

macgregor
09-28-2012, 04:46 PM
For 0 lighting situations --> C300

Kegan
09-28-2012, 04:46 PM
I dunno if I'd use a Scarlet for weddings, but that's just me. I know guys who do it with great success. It's hard to purchase a camera that does both event work AND commercial/set work equally well.

You'll have to choose - future proof + getting more into the commercial/set world or staying with a camera that can do what you need now, but likely won't last you as long...tough predicament.

macgregor
09-28-2012, 04:48 PM
I mean... having a C100 out there for half the price of the C300... Id either go that route or step up to a Scarlet. Either save the money and accept a slightly worse codec (420) or as I said, get more future proof with the scarlet plus a cheap recorder (red will also provide better images if properly exposed).

surebll
09-28-2012, 04:51 PM
I wish some would have talked me out the c300. It's ok, I like my Af100.

cowpunk52
09-28-2012, 05:29 PM
This thread is a terrible idea, and I certainly hope that you're taking every reply from all sides with a grain of salt. If you feel like it's time to upgrade, make a short of list. Make a couple of them. What does your client demand? How much can you realistically afford? What is the majority of the type of shooting you do?

From that, make a list of cameras with necessary accessories that you are considering. Figure out exactly what it will cost to shoot what you shoot. Then rent, and test. Does it fit your workflow? Are the ergonomics in line with your style of shooting? Do you have the support structure (on set and in post) to make it work for you? Will it help you deliver the product your client demands on schedule and on budget?

Answer all those questions, and you'll likely know exactly what you need.

mraaron895
09-28-2012, 05:59 PM
@cowpunk52
Yeah I'm having a hard time dissagreeing with you on that. My main desire is to own a professional camera and gear that sets me apart from DSLR & Prosumer shooters.

FrameFarmMedia
09-28-2012, 06:22 PM
@cowpunk52
Yeah I'm having a hard time dissagreeing with you on that. My main desire is to own a professional camera and gear that sets me apart from DSLR & Prosumer shooters.

If that is the case it seems a C100 or FS100 or even af100 would be a better fit to your needs cost/performance.

David W. Jones
09-28-2012, 06:58 PM
I don't see any camera as a five year investment. I like the C300, I shoot with it a lot, but I'd be staggered if I'm still shooting on one in one year, let alone five.

+100

mraaron895
09-28-2012, 07:11 PM
I personally think the C300 will be around for much longer as a top performer.

For an example: I've yet to see a digital camera trump the Alexa. It's been out since 2010, and no one complains that it does not shoot 4K because no one can see 4K.

Now the C300 doesn't have the dynamic range or quite the same resolution as the Alexa, but it has the capability to shoot in any lighting situation. To me resolution is the current fad.

Finnegan
09-28-2012, 10:04 PM
Pull the trigger on the C300.

Nicholas Natteau
09-28-2012, 10:37 PM
Hi mraaron895.

For months, I wrestled with the exact same questions you have. After careful research and a lot of soul searching, weighing the pros and cons of which large-chip camcorder to go with, I finally took the plunge and ordered a C300 with Canon's 24-month 0% interest offer.

Like everyone else, I find this camera to be absolutely phenomenal in low light. Though I'm not experienced with high end professional cameras, I found the C300 to be quite easy to operate and a joy to hold. All the buttons are where you'd want them to be. And the function buttons are positioned in the most logical and ideal places. Now I see why camera crews love it. Believe what they say about it! It's a fantastic camera.

If you're planning on doing any run and gun work and need a camera with fast auto focus and a broadcast quality bit rate, you might want to look at the soon to be released Panasonic GH3 (shooting 1080p24 and 1080p60 at 50-70 Mbps for only $1,300!).

Though cameras now become obsolete much faster because of how rapidly technology is evolving, I still believe the C300 will remain highly in demand for quite a while. I see the C300 becoming the workhorse of small budget indie films and documentaries, as were once the DVX100 and HVX200.

dustylense
09-28-2012, 11:50 PM
If your business plan is primarily weddings, then you have to think about the balance of what has a good image and what can be used in a documentary/photojournalistic fashion. To me the C300 or C100 is that camera. Sounds like you already have EOS glass. SO you make a purchase and all you need to be up and running (and by running I mean running around on the move) is a Canon C body and a couple batteries. The C300 would give you that wide DR shot to a lovely codec ready to drop an edit in every app you could imagine. It grades well. A C100 would give you hopefully the same image but in that more compressed image (but cheaper media) but has 422 Hdmi out. Ninja up the C100 and you have a C300 that shoots Prores ready to edit 422 at half the cost of the C300. Batteries go the distance with these cameras and both can stay light and tight. Plus I'm sure the C100/300 plays just nice with canon HDslrs for multicam angles.

Future proof? Tomorrow is the future. The day after that is the future.

simonpwood
09-29-2012, 12:15 AM
The C300 is ready for prime-time straight out of the box (unlike the FS100, AF100 and others mentioned earlier). The fact that so many production companies have invested in them means that they will be around and in use for some time (think of how long many of those Sony XDCams and the Betacams before them were in use with stations). However, most of the ones I have seen with TV crews have expensive Canon L series zoom lenses mounted; so I don't think you can slap any old lens on it and expect it to be broadcast compliant. Some of the C300 crews I talked to mentioned that the BBC is strict about the type of CA caused by some lenses. Another thing they like about the camera is that they don't have to worry about external recorders (a lot of those crews also use the EX1 & nanoflash).

I talked to the crew who used the R1MX, and they mentioned that they also have Epics, but don't like to bring them out for documentary work, in part due to some potential unreliability issues when they are in foreign countries (and a replacement can't be found - they mentioned their Epic suffers from the 'smurf' effect intermittently). The loud fan on the Epic was also a cause of annoyance to them on documentary work; this is especially true in hot countries when they are rolling for long takes they said. They preferred the R1MX for documentary work as the fan is not an issue, and they had some soft Ice-Packs (like what you would put on a pulled muscle) which they stick on top of the Red if it starts to overheat! They mentioned the Epic was the best film camera they had used; just not great for documentary. Presumably the fan noise issue is also present with the Scarlet? Something to think about; though as mentioned above the Scarlet is probably the most reasonably priced 'future proof' camera at the moment.

avro
09-29-2012, 01:03 AM
I mean... having a C100 out there for half the price of the C300... Id either go that route or step up to a Scarlet. Either save the money and accept a slightly worse codec (420) or as I said, get more future proof with the scarlet plus a cheap recorder (red will also provide better images if properly exposed).

Scarlet for WEDDINGS.
Ohhh Deeear....there is athought.

Liam Hall
09-29-2012, 05:41 AM
@Liam Hall
I' be interested to hear where you think the C300 will fall short in the next 5 years? It's one of the few cameras that can meet broadcast quality standards today. Do you see TV production standards changing dramatically in the next few years?
It's not that the C300 will fall short, so much as there will be other, better options than the C300.

I agree, the C300 is a great camera for today. Currently, I shoot more on the C300 than any other camera. And I'm sure that will be the case for the next few months too. But the C300 is Canon's first foray into the large sensor camera market. There are design flaws that need to be addressed, there functions that need to be added. How long before the C300 will be upgraded or superseded? One year? One month? A lot less than five years I'd imagine.

Paul Cronin
09-29-2012, 05:46 AM
Buy the C300 and use it now while you make money. If something better comes along and you really need the upgrade then go for it and sell the C300. I don't think there will be a better Canon out for at least a year even if they release it at NAB in April. Make the move you won't regret it I don't.

dcloud
09-29-2012, 08:03 AM
if were talking about economy here, its not exactly the best time to spend so much on technology that will be phased out in a couple of years.
Now if your asking as a creative shooter, c300 is awesome. (ive used it, love the features though i damn hate the swiveling LCD!) c100 seems a better deal for your work (that is if it does what it supposed to do when its released)

mail4joeg
09-29-2012, 10:17 AM
"Talk me out of buying the C300"

Two Clicks (http://vimeo.com/49272792)

Jim Martin
09-29-2012, 11:12 AM
Scarlet + blackmagic hyperdeck or atomos ninja. 10bit.422. Perfect workflow. Cheap. XD
...and it likes to take a nap or two each day. Seriously, the poster is not looking to spend beyond what the C300 costs. Your package is well over 20K....

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

Liam Hall
09-29-2012, 12:03 PM
...and it likes to take a nap or two each day. Seriously, the poster is not looking to spend beyond what the C300 costs. Your package is well over 20K....

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com
C100 it is then...

mraaron895
09-29-2012, 12:21 PM
I'd love to go with the C100 becase of the price. But I know I would kick myself everytime I show up on a professional set and didn't have HDSDI & 4:2:2 on board. If I had to rig up a C100 to do that I'd have extra junk on my rig. I think it's worth paying a little extra for convenience sake. If I could afford a RED package I would be getting a C500.

mhood
09-29-2012, 12:29 PM
A HyperDeck is the size of a cell phone...

mraaron895
09-29-2012, 12:40 PM
Yes, but then you have to mount it, power it, feed it a signal, then keep track of storage and media. I just want to "KISS"

Cory Braun
09-29-2012, 12:49 PM
I'd love to go with the C100 becase of the price. But I know I would kick myself everytime I show up on a professional set and didn't have HDSDI & 4:2:2 on board. If I had to rig up a C100 to do that I'd have extra junk on my rig. I think it's worth paying a little extra for convenience sake. If I could afford a RED package I would be getting a C500.

That's kind of contradicting itself, as to use the C500 to its full potential, you'll need to rig that up as well with an external recorder (which is what you keep saying you don't want to do). Otherwise you just have a C300.

If low light is not that huge of a deal, I'd say get the BMCC, as it records directly to ProRes for your weeding shoots, and raw 2.5k for your commercial shoots. It also has HD-SDI. And before you mention the battery "issue" I have already seen several compact battery solutions, which allow you to use cheap Sony or Canon batteries. Of course, it's not available yet, and no one really knows when it will be available in mass quantity. So if you need it now, your kind of out of luck.

It seems like you're pretty set on the C300. All the alternatives, you have a reason for not getting. So I'd say go for the C300.

KyleProhaska
09-29-2012, 01:05 PM
If you get as much work as you sound like you do, the C300 should be paid off fairly quickly. Not sure why price would be a huge issue unless you don't get enough work to justify it.

timbook2
09-29-2012, 01:07 PM
Ok let me try: Dont buy the C300! Its going to be outdated within the next 12 months. If you need something for the big clients, rent!

did it work?

mraaron895
09-29-2012, 02:20 PM
I'm having a really hard time seeing how the C300 will be outdated in the next 12 months. They've put so many industry standard features on the camera. Especially when you couple that with the amazing dynamic range that is only bettered by the F3. And I only mentioned the F3 because they are in the same price category.

Nicholas Natteau
09-29-2012, 03:12 PM
I agree. I don't think it will be obsolete in a year. But with every passing year we'll see ever better cameras. Though I still think the C300 will remain a workhorse for quite a while. Nevertheless I would love to see 1080p60 added in a future C300 firmware upgrade. Panasonic offers this on the AF100 (just sold mine on Ebay) as an upgrade option for an extra $250:

http://www.panasonic.com/business/provideo/ag-af100.asp

vanvideo
09-29-2012, 06:11 PM
If your main source of income is weddings, a C300 is overkill. If the C300 is overkill, the Scarlet is even more so. The C100 seems like a very good option.

If you need HD/DSI, 4:2:2, minimum 50mbps, there are several, cheaper options than the C300: the Canon XF305, the Panny HPX250 and 370, the Sony PMW150/200. They may not have a large sensor, but they take very nice pictures.

Personally, I think the PMW200 will be a hit. The EX1/3 is very popular in the production world, and the 200 is a very good, broadcast quality upgrade.

Why did you sell your FS100, if I may ask?

mhood
09-29-2012, 06:13 PM
Why dance around the BMC?

mraaron895
09-29-2012, 07:37 PM
The BMC has a very poor form factor for my type of shooting. Which is also why I sold my FS100. But another reason I sold my FS100 was because it of it's poor shadow detail and color reproduction. It made hot pink look like hot orange. And believe me, I tried every picture profile.

I love working with the smaller chip cameras, but for my style I need a large sensor.

yoclay
09-29-2012, 08:51 PM
The C100+Hyperdeck seems the most reasonable alternative.
Even without recorder it will yield better images than a DSLR.
Most clients in your business wouldn't even know the difference between a C300 and a C100.
Looks like the same chocolate bar to them, except ones got peanuts and the other doesn't.

The BMC would not be a good alternative, too much rolling shutter and aliasing to be used as a walk around camera.
The C series in particular has very little rolling shutter. This is the no. 1 reason docu's use it after the optimized sensor and codec.

stefancolson
09-29-2012, 09:30 PM
$10,000 is a whole lot of cash to have HDSDI and 4:2:2 "just in case" it's needed on a bigger set. You could rent a C300 a good 25 times for that. A C100 will be more than enough camera for everything short of features or network broadcast. I say pocket the extra money and use (some of) it to enjoy being 23. You'll still have a kickass camera, plus you'll be $10k richer.

I don't know what market you're in or what pricing is like, but I know that out here it would take a dozen or so higher-end weddings to sock enough profit away for a C300. Is it worth not profiting on 12 weddings to have a couple of features that are irrelevant to your primary business?

mraaron895
09-29-2012, 10:01 PM
While a lot of my calls are still for weddings, I'm wanting to expand my market and provide a one stop shop for my higher end commercial clients. I'm finding that clients now are quite aware of cameras and their capabilities. Which is why on my last job for Nike when they didnt have a budget for the Alexa the C300 was the next choice. And while the C100 may have the same "look" the client is going to wonder why it has 200 less numbers in the name than the C300.

stefancolson
09-30-2012, 12:45 AM
If you're getting the work now that'll pay for the camera quickly, then jump in. If not, then rent until you can be assured a fast ROI. You can get a C300 for roughly $500 for a weekend. If the jobs don't pay enough to eat that cost a couple of times until you know that the work is there, then they probably don't pay enough to justify a $15-20k camera package. This is a terrible time to own an expensive camera that isn't fully paid off, and it's possible the least expensive rental market in history. Just be absolutely sure that this won't become a long-term investment that you're still paying for in a year when there might be better, more affordable cameras on the market that are more highly sought after by your clients.

yoclay
09-30-2012, 04:22 AM
Just put a lot of lightweight fancy looking stuff around a "Stupeflex" camera and most clients will probably be happy.

Editman Sweden
09-30-2012, 04:53 AM
I just talked myself out of buying a C300 because I don't think the image quality and features are worth the high $. I'm looking into the C100 instead with a Hyperdeck (already have one) if needed. Much better value in this camera despite the lack of some features. If the C100 is used with the Hyperdeck you get SDI out of the Hyperdeck and better quality than 50mb/s MPEG2 4:2:2 as in the C300.

philiplipetz
09-30-2012, 06:52 AM
I just talked myself out of buying a C300 because I don't think the image quality and features are worth the high $. I'm looking into the C100 instead with a Hyperdeck (already have one) if needed. Much better value in this camera despite the lack of some features. If the C100 is used with the Hyperdeck you get SDI out of the Hyperdeck and better quality than 50mb/s MPEG2 4:2:2 as in the C300.

It appears so, but no one has actually confirmed that the C100 HDMI is the same signal as the C300. The FS100 out is different from the F3 out even though they share the same sensor.

In his last video Jim, who is trying to do his best but is limited by what Canon tells him, mentioned the C100 as sharing C300 lowlight but unlike his previous statements didn't say the C100 out is identical to the C300, something he said before. Have things changed or was this a simple omission without significance? This is the critical issue with the C100's usability for higher level work.

anatusa
09-30-2012, 07:02 AM
I just talked myself out of buying a C300 because I don't think the image quality and features are worth the high $. I'm looking into the C100 instead with a Hyperdeck (already have one) if needed. Much better value in this camera despite the lack of some features. If the C100 is used with the Hyperdeck you get SDI out of the Hyperdeck and better quality than 50mb/s MPEG2 4:2:2 as in the C300.

hm does the c100 shares same dr , and has clog?

philiplipetz
09-30-2012, 08:11 AM
hm does the c100 shares same dr , and has clog?

C100 has C Log and a version of 709 that electronically tries to cram the full DR into an AVCHD 709 like signal. On the sample video there were highlight blowouts using this compression, but that could be due the filmaker's stated intent to grade the sample so that it looks like a DSLR. On the main C100 thread I posted images showing that the DR seen on the LCD was had much greater DR than the graded final product.

Editman Sweden
09-30-2012, 08:18 AM
According to productinformation from Canon C300 and C100 shares the same DR. I would expect to get about the same out of either camera.

TheDingo
09-30-2012, 08:40 AM
On the main C100 thread I posted images showing that the DR seen on the LCD was had much greater DR than the graded final product.

Definitely grading choices made by the film-maker.

I expect the C100 to produce an image that is very close ( if not identical ) to the C300, through you may need to bolt on an external recorder to achieve this.

anatusa
09-30-2012, 11:06 AM
According to productinformation from Canon C300 and C100 shares the same DR. I would expect to get about the same out of either camera.


then c100 maybe perfect for its price , - of course c 300 has much nicer LCD and EVF ..... 2 days ago i played with it at canon store - just WOW ........ i will say that again - WOW!!!! EVF - is kind of - perfect..... i have af101 now and its just no where near . c300 evf is soooo large that even i am (guy in glasses) could focus no problems..... its like watching on big tv screen! the monitor size and quality does meter - if say true i am not sure if i would need an external monitor - red peaking is very good there, and monitor its self is big! the only thing Canon L glass weights TONS..... , at first i took the C300 in my hands with out glass and weight really surprised me, but as soon i put 24-70 II on it - its felt like my af101 with sigma 18-50 is much lighter, and its already did not seemed like something handheld friendly! i really dont think i could do a handheld shooting with c300& that lens for a long time......

low light on c300 was great...... they turned off the lights in store for me.... so i could play with iso..... and its impressive..... much much better then i would get from my af101

anyway for that price c300 kind of sucks because of over and under cranking and 8 bit, its may be just my own opinion but its the way i feel.... from other hand the cam is ready to shoot with out any add ons!

but c100 with nanoflash is maybe perfect solution for the price,-

what does it means? C100 Body: Approx. TBA lb. / TBA g
is it - to be announced?

vanvideo
09-30-2012, 11:12 AM
The C100 body weighs 1,020g, or about 2.2 lbs. That's pretty light.

drummondb
10-01-2012, 06:58 AM
It appears so, but no one has actually confirmed that the C100 HDMI is the same signal as the C300. The FS100 out is different from the F3 out even though they share the same sensor.

In his last video Jim, who is trying to do his best but is limited by what Canon tells him, mentioned the C100 as sharing C300 lowlight but unlike his previous statements didn't say the C100 out is identical to the C300, something he said before. Have things changed or was this a simple omission without significance? This is the critical issue with the C100's usability for higher level work.

I was going to say the same thing. Most people seem convinced that the C100 + external recorder will produce footage that is equal to or superior than the C300, yet no one has gotten to actually test this out yet.

However, Canon says the C100 has the same sensor as well as the same processor as the C300. Doesn't that strongly imply the HDMI out will be equal to the C300?

aly324
10-01-2012, 05:54 PM
The most obvious solution for me is to buy a USED C300.

anatusa
10-01-2012, 07:36 PM
not sure if 2000$ worth loosing a warranty and dealing with previously used equipment, and its about most savings i found so far ..... but its an idea..... btw canon gives some discounts now as well....
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/839220-REG/Canon_5779B002_C300_Cinema_EOS_Camcorder.html

Jim Martin
10-02-2012, 12:11 PM
Philip-
We just had the camera for about a 1/2 hour so our video was unscripted....as far as I know or have been told, the HDMI out should be the same as the C300's HD SDI out and the C100 low light also should be identical to the C300....I have no reason to believe otherwise (and I think I would have heard something if it wasn't).

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

aly324
10-02-2012, 06:18 PM
not sure if 2000$ worth loosing a warranty and dealing with previously used equipment, and its about most savings i found so far ..... but its an idea..... btw canon gives some discounts now as well....
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/839220-REG/Canon_5779B002_C300_Cinema_EOS_Camcorder.html

Well, actually lately on Ebay there've been some PL mount C300's sold (and even unsold) for $9k. But only PL of course. If it's an EF mount for $8k I think I'd be willing to take the risk. Waiting for prices to fall.

mraaron895
10-02-2012, 07:24 PM
I'm very grateful for all the responses this thread has attracted. After my research I've chosen to go with the C300 for a few reasons:

#1: The camera does everything I need/want it to do, without having to add on any extra accessories.
#2: While it may only be 8bit it behaves like 10bit because of the brand new sensor technology behind it.
#3: Professional connections, I'm so sick and tired of HDMI cabel on set.
#4: To me this is the ultimate small form HD camera. Aside fromthe F3 but the F3 is too big and bulky for my needs.
#5: With the introduction of the C500 canon is unlikely to come out with another professional Camcorder for a few years. Unlike Sony, I feel like Canon put the time and effort into it's "C-Lineup" to create a product that will stand the test of time. For a couple of years at least :)

fredsoffa
10-19-2012, 11:09 AM
Well, I have a Canon 5D Mark iii and a C300 --- the 5D looks better and you get an easier wide angle. The 5D fits on a cheapo monopod - my low cost solution to not purchasing a steadicam rig -- and the audio now is acceptable.

Sure, the C300 has built in ND, and a great monitor. But for 16k, really? Unless you have a stable client base and they will pay for that camera, it's not worth it at all.

Paul Cronin
10-19-2012, 11:17 AM
Also have a 5D MKIII and a C300 and I would never use the MKIII for video it does not even come close to the C300. But the MKIII takes stunning stills.

maarek
10-21-2012, 08:10 AM
Also have a 5D MKIII and a C300 and I would never use the MKIII for video it does not even come close to the C300. But the MKIII takes stunning stills.

People make odd statements here. I've always shot with a bunch of cameras. Newest video I shot with the FS700, 5d mark III as the b-cam and the Sony nex-5n and canon 7d as c-cams. The 5d mark III has this odd habit of always looking great compared to all the others. Narrative shoots are though a different animal than documentary stuff (where the C300 excels).

Gary Huff
10-21-2012, 08:13 AM
The 5d mark III has this odd habit of always looking great compared to all the others.

Either confirmation bias or simply not knowing how to bring out the fullest capability of the FS700.

Paul Cronin
10-21-2012, 08:34 AM
Maarek that is not an odd statement that is my opinion.

Every time I have used my old MKII I could not use the footage. Sure it could be I don't know all the tricks with the DSLR for Video but that is why I own broadcast quality video cameras.

cowpunk52
10-21-2012, 09:13 AM
Everybody's got opinions and we're all entitled to them. I think the 5DIII can make really lovely images, but it would never be my top choice for any production. To me, 5D's and most DSLR's in general are the instagram cameras of digital cinema. Almost anyone can make beautiful looking images with them, but they won't unleash the potential of a more skilled hand like a dedicated cinema camera could.

This is not to say I don't like them, b/c I certainly do.

Editman Sweden
10-21-2012, 10:15 AM
I was close to go for the C300 but felt it wasn't the right camera. I got a used Sony F3 because I saw greater potential with that camera. The highlight roll-off with the F3 is hard to beat. My 5D3 can be good and bad, sometimes it's superb and sometimes it looks to soft. When it's good I love it!

Graham King
10-21-2012, 10:18 AM
People make odd statements here.

Probably because Paul has seen the difference between the two cameras. I also have both. I love my 5DIII, especially with the new radio transmitter and 600EX flash in a soft box for some very cool stills. But the video quality is iPhone + depth of field. I'm considering a BMC as a b-cam with comparable sharpness and dynamic range.

avro
10-21-2012, 01:06 PM
Also have a 5D MKIII and a C300 and I would never use the MKIII for video it does not even come close to the C300. But the MKIII takes stunning stills.

That is nonsense. Video from 5d miii looks fantastic, it has another dimension. C300 is good video camera fot TV work.
Canon 1d-c will eat any c300...that i have seen with my own eyes...

Liam Hall
10-21-2012, 01:54 PM
I am Spartacus.

cowpunk52
10-21-2012, 02:28 PM
I am Spartacus.

Ha ha ha - this thread has gotten pretty darn ridiculous. I understand people have different ideas for what tool suits them the best, but empirical declarations about an of them is just inflamatory bullsh%t. The only thing that really seperates the current crop of digital cinema cameras is the person behind the wheel. Either your skills are up to it, or they aren't. The playing field is even, time to put up or shut up.

avro
10-21-2012, 02:31 PM
I am Spartacus.
Why not Alexander the Great ? :-)

mraaron895
10-21-2012, 04:02 PM
Seeing as I'm the one who started this thread I should say that the C300 is blowing me away. I was considering waiting for the 1DC. But I'm so glad I went with the C300. It really is the best 1080 camera on the market with the new sensor technology. Just reading how canon uses a standard bayer pattern but doesnt actually de-bayer is so genious, and the results speak for themself. Having all the professional audio and video connections I can walk on any set and have what's needed all in one box.

Graham King
10-21-2012, 04:56 PM
Video from 5d miii looks fantastic, it has another dimension.

It has shallower depth of field. That's all. The C300 is a heck of a lot sharper than the Canon SLRs.

anatusa
10-21-2012, 05:09 PM
Why not Alexander the Great ? :-)

alexa is great!

Noel Evans
10-21-2012, 06:56 PM
Im going to carry Bryan's mantle a little here. Each of the cameras perform, they all have their strengths. Empirically declaring from the mountain top that A is king and bow down before it... really doesnt have a place in a free discussion.

maarek
10-22-2012, 12:32 AM
It has shallower depth of field. That's all. The C300 is a heck of a lot sharper than the Canon SLRs.

Sure. When I used it with the FS700 there were two things the FS700 did better. More dynamic range (especially in shadows) and better sharpness. But the 5d still looked absolutely great when I intercut them together. Didn't have to blur or use any magic tricks. It just worked. And a lot of closeups were just unbelievable thanks to the DOF. Also the highlight handling was surprising. First time using the FS700 and I immediately had some problems with highlights, especially with some high-intensity led's. The 5d mark III just soared through them without a hitch.

I was also surprised how bad the ergonomics were on the FS700 with the metabones adapter. It was really horrible to hold and operate with the zillions buttons and switches all over the place. Surprisingly the 5d had better ergonomics and it's just a box! For example, changing ISO or dB was just a breeze on the 5d and a horrible operation on the FS700 which I wanted to avoid at all costs.

I have not shot with the C300 yet though but it does look ergonomically a lot better.

That full-frame look is ... something else. Especially when shooting people.

nigelbb
11-04-2012, 06:58 AM
I too own a C300 & 5D3 plus I shoot weddings but have stopped using the C300 for weddings because the video quality is just so much better than the 5D3. I am shooting with 3-4 cameras so it is not an option to buy more C300s & it is barely an option to buy a couple of C100s. The video from the 5D3 is lovely but the C300 blows it away. I need to be able to match up the footage from multiple cameras & the easiest route is to have all cameras the same or very similar e.g. 5D2 mixes OK with 5D3

Take a look at this highlights clip & tell me that you cannot see the difference

http://www.alicebarkerimages.com/vicky-and-neil-wedding-highlights/

I don't know how the OP is going to be using the C300 at weddings but for me it doesn't work with our style of multiple cameras & if I were to shoot with just a single camera it would not be a C300 but a more traditional camcorder like an XF305 if not a full shoulder mount camera.

avro
11-04-2012, 07:38 AM
I will sell you 305. It is only 6 months old. Will use Mark3 anyday. Canon 1d-c could be ny next camera if the price is right.
No 50/60p is big no for me. In 2013 it will be a joke not having that after spending $15,000. ( no decent EVF).

indiawilds
11-04-2012, 08:21 AM
1D C doesn't have an EVF. So you need to buy one for that. I was calculating the storage requirement for a 2 month shoot with a 1D C. I got scared. It will chew up close to 1 TB for 4 hour shoot. So if at the minimum I only record two hours a day (you never know what you will get in a forest), then I will need 15 TB per month. So for 2 months minimum I have to lug 15 hard disks of 2 TB each to store. And if you back up then it is another story. :) So I am making provisions for atleast 30 hard disks. Someone from my team has to make special journey to carry these stuff.

Frankly speaking C300 looks very good with its broadcast approved codec. However the 1D C files are pretty good with lot of details. It also has the 1080 at 50/60p. I have pushed back my project so that I can make up my mind and buy either the C300 or the 1DC the moment it is launched.


Canon 1d-c could be ny next camera if the price is right.
No 50/60p is big no for me. In 2013 it will be a joke not having that after spending $15,000. ( no decent EVF).

avro
11-04-2012, 08:45 AM
For TV WORK you dont need 4k so it is cheap for recording storrage....and Zacuto $350 magnifier will give you better better option then C300 one. Picture with FULL FRAME lenses will look better. Another option is to get F5.

nigelbb
11-04-2012, 09:09 AM
I will sell you 305. It is only 6 months old. Will use Mark3 anyday.Funnily enough I just sold my XF305 yesterday:-) I meant that if I were to shoot a wedding with just one camera it would not be a DSLR. I can use multiple DSLRs & use cutaways for when I didn't hit focus, the white balance went wonky, the highlights just blew, the battery ran out, the card filled up etc if I have just one camera shooting an event I cannot afford to have any of those things happen so would use a traditional camcorder. For other shoots I would use my C300 without question as it has the best image that I have ever seen from a video camera.

EIREHotspur
11-04-2012, 03:43 PM
Talk you out of buying a C300?

Ok I will try......don't buy one.
I want one but then read that horror story elsewhere of a fault in it and Canon charging something astronomical to fix it.

I hate horror stories and should stop reading them.

Graham King
11-04-2012, 07:55 PM
if I were to shoot with just a single camera it would not be a C300 but a more traditional camcorder like an XF305 if not a full shoulder mount camera

Well to each his own. I shoot every wedding solo with one cam and the C300 really is a dream come true. As far as weddings go, I don't know whet else I would ask for. Don't need more than 1080, don't need raw, don't need high fps. I would just ask for more dynamic range. It's the best DR I've ever shot but I look forward to shooting with at least 14 stops one day.

nigelbb
11-05-2012, 12:26 AM
Well to each his own. I shoot every wedding solo with one cam and the C300 really is a dream come true. As far as weddings go, I don't know whet else I would ask for. Don't need more than 1080, don't need raw, don't need high fps. I would just ask for more dynamic range. It's the best DR I've ever shot but I look forward to shooting with at least 14 stops one day.You must have a very different style to me. I love shooting with DSLRs & see the C300 as a grown up DSLR but to be honest I cannot imagine shooting an event like a wedding with a single camera except with a nice big power zoom. Do you shoot with just one lens? If not what do you do about missing the action while changing lenses?

Graham King
11-05-2012, 10:31 AM
You must have a very different style to me. I love shooting with DSLRs & see the C300 as a grown up DSLR but to be honest I cannot imagine shooting an event like a wedding with a single camera except with a nice big power zoom. Do you shoot with just one lens? If not what do you do about missing the action while changing lenses?

I take 5 lenses to weddings. 17-55, 70-200, 24-105, 50 1.2, 24 1.4. The trick is that I don't switch while something is happening. This would be especially difficult since I have to turn the dumb thing off. Anyway, I choose the one lens best suited for that specific part of the day. Prep: 17-55. Ceremony & speeches: 70-200. Dancing: 24 1.4. It varies every time of course.