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Russell Moore
08-25-2012, 10:42 AM
I...Win (My Pain is Your Pain)

Identical twins share a connection that takes sibling rivalry to the next level.







I may enter with "My Pain is Your Pain" as the title. Still undecided.

hoz
08-25-2012, 11:29 AM
I like the title. It got me to look at what you've got.

Chris_Keaton
08-25-2012, 12:14 PM
Made me click.

Egg Born Son
08-25-2012, 01:23 PM
That's cheating, you can't lose with that title :thumbsup:

Russell Moore
08-27-2012, 09:20 AM
Good to hear the title is well received, now I'm probably going to change it :grin:

Logline added....Poster to come(hopefully) I have no ideas for it yet. Not to mention I have yet to start writing the script, but I have worked out a basic outline in my head.

Reef dreamer
08-27-2012, 11:11 AM
Strong concept.

My initial thought for a title was... "Win:Win". Has a sense of both being the same.

I love the basis for this, lots to play with. Do they know each other that well? Are they the same? Can they predict? Do they want the same thing, eg girl?

Interested to read this one.

All the best.

Bill Clar
08-28-2012, 01:23 PM
I like the pause in the title. Very ominous.

Russell Moore
09-02-2012, 12:44 PM
Okay...being the master procrastinator that I am....I am about 90% done with my first very rough draft and...now I have to go to work. Will finish when I get home. Let it set for a day and then rewrite. Let my wife (my toughest critic) read it and then rewrite it again.

Not sure if this is going to turn out to be horror or just weird. :)

Egg Born Son
09-03-2012, 09:13 PM
I'll back your ballerina coming of age story (terrifying) if you back my uplifting returned-veteran-finds-new-age-religion-and-cures-cancer-with-love-beams rom-com (the horror). :)

Weird is a kind of horror isn't it?

Or just put these in your title :zombie_smiley::zombie_smiley: I....Win :zombie_smiley::zombie_smiley:

dtroop506
09-04-2012, 04:21 PM
Should be good. Twins can be pretty creepy.

Noel Evans
09-04-2012, 04:29 PM
Man...such a simple title, yet amazingly effective.

KhamIsk
09-05-2012, 02:38 AM
I like your title! And I like twins stories.

Russell Moore
09-05-2012, 11:27 AM
I'll back your ballerina coming of age story (terrifying) if you back my uplifting returned-veteran-finds-new-age-religion-and-cures-cancer-with-love-beams rom-com (the horror). :)

Weird is a kind of horror isn't it?

Or just put these in your title :zombie_smiley::zombie_smiley: I....Win :zombie_smiley::zombie_smiley:



lol....how did you know?!

Russell Moore
09-05-2012, 11:33 AM
I was unsure about the title, but it has received positive feedback...thanks.

First really rough draft done (had to work overtime the last couple days), but on to the rewrite. It's at 9 pages now, should be easy enough to chop down to 6 pages...just in case some twisted demented film maker would actually want to bring it to life.

krestofre
09-11-2012, 09:02 AM
Well that was creepy. And not just the ending, but genuinely creepy throughout.

You know how to write a script and I could find no flaw in the mechanics of it. Instead of a critique so to speak I'll tell you what I would have liked to see more of.

I'd like the relationship with Mae established more. I didn't feel that there was enough there for me to feel an emotional connection to her when she was being attacked, or a catharsis as Nathan does what he does.

I'd also like the relationship between the brothers and parents established more. The visual concept of each having half of the picture of their parents is great. I'd love you to expound on that more. I know the riding crop scene was geared towards doing that, but I would have liked more manifestations of this broken relationship.

Overall, nicely done.

Egg Born Son
09-11-2012, 09:22 AM
Sucks to be a twin, hey?

Your writing style seems a little laboured somehow on this one but not in any way I can define. It reads easily and on the whole there's not much you could do to reduce the descriptions. Maybe I'm just tired. Or maybe it's just the page formatting, artificially inflating the text per page compared to standard. Actually I think that's it. It seems like there's a lot of words on the page because there is. Hmm, what have I achieved here? I really need to go to bed!

I think I can say with fair certainty that this is the first story where someone has Bobbit-ed someone else through this particular self-sacrifice! The particular grimy-ness of this story would be incredible fun to bring to the screen. It put me in mind of the first act of a film called 'Bad Boy Bubby', one of the most intense film experiences I have had in a please-let-me-out-of-the-theatre sense (in a good way, an unpleasant experience delivered by a true artist, crucial to setting up the awesome experience of the rest of the film).

I'm pretty sure I've seen this twin-story a couple of times before in Twilight Zone/X-files type shows but you definitely put your own spin on it. It hasn't been a competition in the ones I've seen and the extra element of the twins taking separately after their parents is inspired. The self-loathing and the subtle way you shed light on their parents and that lasting impact on them took a simple idea to the next level and added depth. Extending even to the age of Mae, a mother substitute?

Some unnecessary CONT'Ds and CONTINUOUS but no harm no foul. I didn't see any that weren't implied in the body of the work.

Character development almost to the point of character study, in 10 pages no less. Mae's attitude to Nick on first meeting was very telling. Many scenes pointed not only to current events but also hinted tantalisingly to events the past without spelling them out.

So my main complaint would simply be the page layout. It's crazy that a deviant formatting can make a difference but it seems it does. As far as requirements met: Horror, definitely creepy, brought to mind a number of films in terms of atmosphere, half of them horror, the other half the real horror of domestic abuse. Two locations and low requirements in terms of production and fx. Nice one.


EDIT: I concur with Chris about Mae but feel differently about the parents. The possibilities opened up by the ambiguity are legion. To nail them down to something specific won't compete with the viewers interpretation. You've opened the door, let people see what the want on the other side of it.


Sorry Chris, yours is the only one I've got left and I just don't think I can get to it tonight. Not without doing you a disservice. I've noted which ones I've reviewed tired and will re-read them to make sure I've been fair. I won't be submitting scores til I've read them all.

Russell Moore
09-11-2012, 10:28 AM
Well that was creepy. And not just the ending, but genuinely creepy throughout.

Excellent, I was definitely going for the creepy vibe.


I'd like the relationship with Mae established more. I didn't feel that there was enough there for me to feel an emotional connection to her when she was being attacked, or a catharsis as Nathan does what he does.

Point taken...I actually had a few scenes involving Mae in mind, but wanted to try and make it a 6 page script, but didn't make it anyway, so I kinda of wish I had included them.


I'd also like the relationship between the brothers and parents established more. The visual concept of each having half of the picture of their parents is great. I'd love you to expound on that more. I know the riding crop scene was geared towards doing that, but I would have liked more manifestations of this broken relationship.

Overall, nicely done.

I felt pretty happy with what I had as far as the child/parent relationship. I really wanted to spell a little bit out and leave some to the readers interpretation. But it sounds like you picked up several things that I was going for.

Thank you.

I appreciate you taking the time to give me feedback.

Russell Moore
09-11-2012, 11:17 AM
Sucks to be a twin, hey?

lol, yeah...part of this was roughly inspired by my nieces (really,really,really roughly) They are identical twins and have very different personalities and they can love each other and be the closest of friends one second and then just rip each other apart emotionally the next second and then they're sticking up for one another the next second....it goes beyond any sibling relationship I've ever seen.


It reads easily and on the whole there's not much you could do to reduce the descriptions. Maybe I'm just tired. Or maybe it's just the page formatting, artificially inflating the text per page compared to standard. Actually I think that's it. It seems like there's a lot of words on the page because there is.

Someone (it may have been Keaton) mentioned my page format before in another scriptfest. I just use the basic screenwriting format that comes with "Movie Magic Screenwriter", maybe I need to look at it and see if I can customize it.


It put me in mind of the first act of a film called 'Bad Boy Bubby', one of the most intense film experiences I have had in a please-let-me-out-of-the-theatre sense (in a good way, an unpleasant experience delivered by a true artist, crucial to setting up the awesome experience of the rest of the film).

Okay, now I have to look this up and see what you're talking about :)


The self-loathing and the subtle way you shed light on their parents and that lasting impact on them took a simple idea to the next level and added depth. Extending even to the age of Mae, a mother substitute?


Character development almost to the point of character study, in 10 pages no less. Mae's attitude to Nick on first meeting was very telling. Many scenes pointed not only to current events but also hinted tantalisingly to events the past without spelling them out.


The possibilities opened up by the ambiguity are legion. To nail them down to something specific won't compete with the viewers interpretation. You've opened the door, let people see what the want on the other side of it.

Excellent...all of the above makes me feel like I accomplished much of what I was going for, feels good to see that a lot of it came through. I definitely wanted to leave portions of it open to the readers interpretation. Thank you.

As far as my writing seeming a bit labored, I think I was having a bit of trouble deciding how I wanted to write the descriptive scenes of violence. I wanted to actually write a violent script without actually showing any of the violence. I was hoping to clearly imply the violence through the other twins reactions, rather than actually show the actual violent acts. My writing may appear a bit labored in these scenes, because I labored at it and was a bit uncertain (perhaps this showed in my writing) of how to write it clearly so it was obvious what was happening, even though you weren't seeing it. (jeez, this paragraph seems a bit labored)

Thanks for thoughtful critique, it is appreciated and helpful.

Bill Clar
09-11-2012, 01:13 PM
The twins names both start with "N". It's hard to keep track of who's who, especially when Nick's pain affects Nathan and vice versa.

The flogging is creepy. The twins relationship takes an ominous turn.

Oh damn. That is graphic. Nice ending. You went for the jugular and didn't hold back. You also didn't say "I...Win" in the end. Wasn't expecting that.

I like Nathan's prissy demeanor. Everything prim and perfect. It provides a nice contrast against Nick.

Sunk99
09-11-2012, 06:09 PM
Comments as read-

Pg 2 ***Twin 30 year olds. Tough on finding actors. I see by the top/bottom margins this is actually longer than 9 pages.

Pg 3 as if it smells of mothballs. ***novelistic, how shown?
The boxer short - riding crop scene I don't follow. Okay I see it is explained seconds later on film in the next scene. BTW - the use of the f-bomb. What function other than limiting your audience.

Pg 6 ***Way too much dialogue for my liking. This is pg six. I think it would have been better compressed to two so far.

Pg 7 Nick presses a hand over the face in the mirror. ***This needs a better description I think to tell us what is happening. Why did he drop the lighter? Is his hand to hide the face? Is his brother watching through the mirror? Is he in pain? - like his brother is getting him back?

Love Mae *** why is the 30 year old out with a 50 year old?

Pg 10 So he cuts off his penis to get back at his brother? Tough to fathom. You show his crotch with the statement "His crotch the source." Nudes actors on a horror short would be tough to find I think. So why does Nick die before Nathan?

Overall - Sorry, I'm not so sure I like this. I know it's horror, but the blood and gore are a bit much for me. The story itself, one twin feels what happens to the other, of course has been done before.
It's not scary. So I'm confused who is the audience? Again, not my genre. You definitely have an imagination. :)

Egg Born Son
09-11-2012, 07:04 PM
I just thought of the other movie that this reminded me of, 'Septien', in regards to the brothers taking on their parents personalities (there's an element of this in Bad Boy Bubby too, if it's piqued your interest then definitely get it. It is a harrowing experience, you many feel traumatised for days afterwards but it is worth it. Consider watching it with headphones at least once, it was recorded with binaural sound with microphones hidden in the protagonist's hair so you hear what he hears, pulls you right into his disturbing world). Septien is a good attempt at a movie but tries just a little too hard to be indie-weird but as a filmmaker there is certainly some value to be found in it and some of the performances are interesting. Short at just over 70 min.

Reef dreamer
09-12-2012, 03:04 AM
This was probably the one i wanted to read most, lets see...

minor issue but your page height seems high - touches the top of each page. Just saying

p1 - interesting idea, transference of pain
Nick - Nathan - i can't totally understand where you are coming from with the names, both starting with the same letter, but for some reason i am finding it more difficult to follow
Mother - Father thing, nice idea, which child relates to which etc
Nick:Mae - wasn't sure about this initial interchange, suspicion yes, but outright in your face?

Great work.

Simple, effective, lovely use of transference and the issues with affecting another.

Possibly the mother;father angle was over played and lost a little meaning. Not sure why he has to explain to his mother, yes he can be like her, more attached to her, but anymore?

well done.

KhamIsk
09-12-2012, 06:02 AM
Hi Russel,

I read your work for Betrayal fest - very nice work. Never commented there, so dont' want to miss the opportunity here.

This one is very interesting too. And well done at that.
I really liked how you played the twin thing - one gets sore, the other feels brother's pain. A myth, huh, but you can easily use it in the movies - very believable. And maybe it's believable because of the way it's written - so nice job.
Mae's reaction to Nick at first was off for me. I expect her to reject him but do it nicer sort of. Maybe, crush him with words, say something specific but not just "you disgust me" right from the start. I'd like it more if she really angered him, not just drove away. --up to you, of course.
I don't care for the little scene on p2 where Nick slaps himself and looks at the picture of his father. Kind of couldn't understand very well what it was for. Returned to it at the end and still don't know.
I like the fact that Mae is older - adds some texture to the story.
You could let them leave perhaps - that's another way to end it - either way is a personal preference.
Overall, I liked this a lot. Well played dramatic piece.

DarrenJSeeley
09-12-2012, 08:52 AM
As far as technical levels go, The space margins on top of the pages are off, so the entire script reads crammed. A little white space never hurt anyone. The next thing I noticed about the piece is there are a lot of things that I can't 'visually' see'. Such as 'cold'. How do I see cold? "Sparse" works just fine. Lack of punctuation in places was also off-putting to me.

"Nick reaches down and grabs his crotch" should be an action, not a wrylie.

For some reason I was having flashbacks in my mind to David Cronenberg's "Dead Ringers' Wonder why...:)

I liked it less than others, and I guess I missed the game, but it was am okay character study.

taylormade
09-12-2012, 11:09 AM
I liked this one a lot. Creepy. yeah, it's been done before, but the competition angle really works well in this case.

I had a bit of a problem with the names Nick and Nathan being so close (twins or not), but I'm a left-handed dyslectic so what do I know?

I liked that you didn't lay everything out and left the reader/viewer to figure some of the characters' motivations and problems for themselves.

I have to think about the ending. I came to the assumption that when Nick cuts himself, he can't feel the pain but Nathan does and vice versa apropos the flogging scene. If this was the case, when Nick is raping Mae, wouldn't Nathan feel the sex?

You have Nathan castrating himself, Nick feeling it, then Nathan having a heart attack and Nick dies because of it. It might be more fun, and more in the spirit of the "game" if Nathan castrates himself and survives (it's possible, ask Mr. Bobbit) and leaves Nick with the awful knowledge that Nathan will always feel his (Nick's) sex while he'll never feel sex again due to Nathan's actions. just a thought.

Well written, spooky and entertaining.

It looks like you're formatting is off in Screenwriter (top and bottom margins).

Russell Moore
09-12-2012, 11:34 AM
I appreciate everybody for taking the time to read and give feedback. I want to address some points brought up in the critiques.

I'm just focusing on getting the other scripts read and giving feedback on those first. Thanks again.

Egg Born Son
09-12-2012, 06:20 PM
You have Nathan castrating himself, Nick feeling it, then Nathan having a heart attack and Nick dies because of it. It might be more fun, and more in the spirit of the "game" if Nathan castrates himself and survives (it's possible, ask Mr. Bobbit) and leaves Nick with the awful knowledge that Nathan will always feel his (Nick's) sex while he'll never feel sex again due to Nathan's actions. just a thought.


It may or may not be a fudge of the internal logic to have one only get the pain and not the damage but I like it. That sets up Nathan as the classic tragic hero.

Russell Moore
09-13-2012, 10:37 AM
I'm going to try and cover some of the points from the feedback.

First I gotta fix my page format.

Nick and Nathan...I struggled with the names, knowing that it's wise to try and keep the different to avoid confusion. It's fairly common for people to name their twins names that begin with the same letter, so I'd hoped that Nick and Nathan would be different enough to avoid confusion, it appears I should've went in another direction. I thought about following the same premise, but having one's nickname a different letter e.g. Robert and Richard would be Robert and Dick (okay maybe not Dick, that may be a little too much foreshadowing) but something like that.

I wanted to leave a lot of things open to reader interpretation...i.e. the hand over the face reflected in the mirror....does he see his brother looking back at him? Does he see himself and hates what he sees? Something else? You decide.

I questioned the F bomb, but left it in...I thought it was appropriate dialogue and knowing what else was going to transpire in the script, I figured the F bomb would probably be fairly inoffensive in comparison.

Mae's age?

Mae and Nick's confrontation. I hoped to show that Nathan and Mae had conversations about Nick and the brother's relationship. She was stern and would none of his games. How does Nick take this brush off? Does it remind him of his Mother? Make him feel like less of a man? Not more of a screw up than Nathan?

In my mind when writing this...The brother's shared the same identical pain transference, but Nick was the more cruel brother and was willing to cause himself pain just to hurt his brother. While Nathan was never able to really pull the trigger and do what it took to hurt his brother. Was he just afraid of the pain? Did he not want to hurt his brother? even though his brother hurt him?

Hmm.. I was afraid the end might cause confusion, I struggled figuring out how best to write some the action throughout. Nathan dies from blood loss. Nick dies from a heart attack, caused by a weak heart(I tried to foreshadow with the pills/end up like that Father conversation) and the pain he felt when Nathan cuts off his penis.

Nathan doesn't feel like he "wins" in the end.



Big thank you to everyone that read and took the time to give me feedback. It all helps, even if it didn't connect with you, I learn from that as well.
I sincerely appreciate it.

Russell Moore
09-13-2012, 10:38 AM
This is an interesting idea and I appreciate that you thought enough about it to come up with what could also be a somewhat fitting ending. Thanks :beer:

Chris_Keaton
09-15-2012, 01:58 PM
Hahaha, this is pretty messed up. I like it! Pretty good take on the genre and a nice short that would be relatively easy to shoot, even without twins. Good job.

Notes:
- I can tell NICK and NATHAN are males, no need to say so. It just takes up space.
- Pretty messed up from the start. :)
- Mae doesn't sound 50, unless she's lived in a convent for the last 40 years.

Russell Moore
09-18-2012, 10:31 AM
Thanks Chris, I know you tend to wade through some "pretty messed up:Drogar-Love(DBG):" material of your own, so I'm glad you appreciated my take on it.

I tried to make a conscience effort to write the film so that a creative film maker could make this without having to use twins. So I tried to avoid any direct contact between the two, grabbing each other, fighting each other etc.

Hmm...I'll have to revisit Mae's dialogue.


oops...I just noticed two posts up I spelled penis wrong, well that's just embarrassing. It's bad enough I used the word at all, could of went with tool or junk or anything else. :P

Okay that was ADHD.

Thanks for taking the time to read and give me the feedback.