View Full Version : JVC ProHD cam shoots in 30p, close enough to 60i?
fishquail
07-01-2005, 06:01 PM
So we all know it wont shoot in interlaced 60i and only 24p. But the JVC website seems to say it shoots in 30p as well which is closer to a "Reality Look" or a "LiveTV"look. I have shot some 30p material and mixed it with other cams shooting at 60i and it dosnt bother the viewer IMHO. -Yes you can tell they are difernt cameras but its not a dramatic differnece like trying to mix 24p with 60i.
In my opinon, if the cam can really do 30p then that is close enough to a reality look. -At least somewhere in between.
thisiswells
07-01-2005, 06:08 PM
Well, it's better than nothing -- or at least better than ONLY having 24P.
30P is only 25% faster than 24P, whereas 60i is 100% faster than 30P.
Think about it.
I've shot fencing in 30p and it looked fairly good (lots of fast movements and small bladed weapons). It wasn't nearly as crisp a interlaced but I didn't have any horrible motion artifacts.
Barry_Green
07-01-2005, 09:40 PM
The 30p from the JVC can also employ its motion-smoothing filter, which should make it look a little closer to 60i/60p. But at the expense of clarity, most likely -- we don't know exactly how the motion smoothing filter works, but there's speculation that it works along the lines of shooting 30p at 1/30th.
Gibby
07-02-2005, 11:16 AM
JVC claims that the HD100's motion in 30p will be very smooth.
According to JVC, the HD100's smooth motion function captures images at twice the normal rate when shooting in 30p, 25p, or 24p (that is, at 60p, 50p, 48p). When the doubled images are merged, they are passed through a filter that smoothes out the subject's motion by retaining a small percentage of residual image (60p frame doubled down to 30p?). They claim that this eliminates the motion judder that usually appears in footage shot at 30p, 25p, and 24p.
How does it work? No body knows for sure yet. Does it work by temporal oversampling? Who knows. Will it work as advertised? Nobody knows yet. Is it possible to smooth out 30p to look like 60p? Probably. JVC has an excellent reputation with broadcast networks for their encoders - they're use extensively. If soem of that advanced encoder technology is used on the HD100 to aid the motion filter, it's just possible that the HD100 can deliver smooth, 60p-looking 30p footage, not to mention smoother-motion 24p. If the HD100 can deliver smooth motion 30p as claimed, the camera will sell like hotcakes for TV work. Irregardless, I think it will sell very well for it's HD 24p capabilities.
Gibby
www.cut4.tv
David Jimerson
07-02-2005, 01:15 PM
According to JVC, the HD100's smooth motion function captures images at twice the normal rate when shooting in 30p, 25p, or 24p (that is, at 60p, 50p, 48p). When the doubled images are merged, they are passed through a filter that smoothes out the subject's motion by retaining a small percentage of residual image (60p frame doubled down to 30p?). They claim that this eliminates the motion judder that usually appears in footage shot at 30p, 25p, and 24p.
That's my understanding of the 24p motion smoothing, anyway, and if so, you lose resolution and there's no way you don't unless you have a completely static shot (in which case the need for a motion smoother is obviated). You have to reconcile two distinct moments in time in a single frame, and the only way you can do that is to introduce some kind of a blur.
Gibby
07-02-2005, 01:41 PM
It's going to be interesting to test out the motion smoothing filter. I'll have a couple HD100's very shortly, with all accessories, including the 13x lens. Extrapolating the performance of the camera itself, and the motion filter, is guesswork at present. The answers will come soon. When I get my HD-100's, I'll take them, including all accessories, (1/2" to 1/3" stepdown adapter, my Fujinon S20x6.4 1/2" SD lens, etc.), over to my former home base (Las Vegas), so myself and Barry Green can put the whole system through it's paces indoors, outdoors, etc. Between us we'll post our impressions of the results, including the motion smoothing filter. Is it within the realm of scientific principle to be able to smooth motion without losing significant resolution or inducing blur? Anything is possible. If JVC has somehow achieved that in this camera, my hat is off to them - if not, professional shooters, which this camera is made for, are generally used to dealing with how to effectively shoot moving subjects in 24p and 30p.
Gibby
www.cut4.tv
Gibby, do you have a delivery date yet?
My local supplier is still saying mid July, but everyone else says there are delays...Argh, I hate waiting!
Barry_Green
07-02-2005, 02:00 PM
I haven't heard a delivery date yet, but people on DVInfo keep saying that their reps are confirming August, and the most recent report said "shipping in august, delivery to the States at the first part of September".
People in Europe are still being told that they'll have them in mid-July.
JVC's pro.jvc.com website still says "July".
God, does that mean I may be one of the first on DVXuser to get my hands on the production model...
Yikes... the responsibility!
Gibby
07-02-2005, 04:10 PM
Gibby, do you have a delivery date yet?
I'm expecting to get mine in Mid-July, but possibly sooner. My edit bays, in San Diego and San Luis Obispo, are set up for editing, not testing - and they're very busy cranking out projects. As mentioned, when I get my HD100's, I'll call Barry and make a trip to Las Vegas to do some shooting and testing, with all lenses and accessories included. If Barry wants, he can post some of that footage. If he wants to arrange a side buy shooting session with other cameras while I'm in Vegas, I'm up to that also. Gonna be fun!
Gibby
www.cut4.tv
Sounds great! How come you're getting yours so early?
mezelf27
07-03-2005, 05:47 PM
Well, just paid for an order of a GY-HD101E, and they still say to me "within 2 to 4 weeks, but we know from experience it could be 'a week or two' in delay"
I'm very curious.... I hope I can heve mine by the end of July...
athouguia
07-04-2005, 06:46 PM
Well, just paid for an order of a GY-HD101E, and they still say to me "within 2 to 4 weeks, but we know from experience it could be 'a week or two' in delay"
I'm very curious.... I hope I can heve mine by the end of July...
That's the European model, where did you order? Does anybody know who has better prices in Europe? Certainly not here in Portugal...
Diogo
mezelf27
07-04-2005, 07:00 PM
It is the European model. Not the best price (although a good one for me), but I opted for reliability and good relations with the dealer and therefor probably a better service where needed