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View Full Version : GH2 GH2 ISO blockade - any chances to take it down?



WielkiCzarnyAfgan
04-18-2012, 07:46 AM
Hello. I am wondering if there is a solution for this particular problem- as we all know the ISO ( ASA ) option stays locked during recording video on GH2 ( and GH1 ) - is there a way to pass by this issue? Maybe some of the hackers is on the way to take down the ISO blockade in future as an option for future ptoools? I find the ISO blockade a real problem ( because always when I want to increase exposure I need to stop recording :/ ) and it should be considered as No1 to fix.

Greetings :thumbsup:

Gary Huff
04-18-2012, 08:31 AM
You should be opening up the aperture on your lens instead.

WielkiCzarnyAfgan
04-18-2012, 08:52 AM
That is not a solution- because the DOF decreases/increases when I change aperture.

Kholi
04-18-2012, 08:53 AM
It's impractical.

Use a Fader ND

Per Lichtman
04-18-2012, 10:14 AM
AS far as I know, no DSLR/EVIL camera has implemented a similar feature. The ENG style cameras often have a variable gain control, so if that is important to you, that would be a potential place to look for it.

mpgxsvcd
04-18-2012, 10:34 AM
Actually the solution is simple. Shoot in Shutter priority mode(For m4/3s lenses) and Aperture priority mode(For MF lenses) with the Auto ISO feature. If you are going to adjust ISO at all during filming you might as well let the camera adjust it automatically.

I actually shoot everything in shutter priority mode with Auto ISO. It works perfectly for maintaining a consistent exposure in environments where the lighting cannot be controlled.

MR Fanny
04-19-2012, 02:21 AM
Actually the solution is simple. Shoot in Shutter priority mode(For m4/3s lenses) and Aperture priority mode(For MF lenses) with the Auto ISO feature. If you are going to adjust ISO at all during filming you might as well let the camera adjust it automatically.

I actually shoot everything in shutter priority mode with Auto ISO. It works perfectly for maintaining a consistent exposure in environments where the lighting cannot be controlled.

what he said =) I do it a fair bit when im lazy or run'n'gun. works quite well considering.

HotConductor
04-19-2012, 09:03 AM
I agree with the original poster in that it would be a great feature.

Example: I'm shooting a concert in a dark bar. I set my iso at 2000, aperture is at 1.7, shutter at 100... I'm looking good, but suddenly the lighting changes on a slow song. Everything goes dim... I drop my shutter to 50, and I'm still barely getting any light. In order to jump up to 3200 iso I have to do one of the following:

1. Stop filming, change iso, then resume filming.
2. Shoot with auto-iso on to begin with and hope the computer can keep up with me.
3. Shoot at 3200 to start with, despite the noise, and just adjust aperture/shutter as needed.

OR... 4. Just let me change iso while shooting.

Shooting in shutter priority mode with auto iso on can be a complete nightmare! Subject walks infront of a sunny window... Suddenly the internal computer says 'woaah, too much light, gonna drop the iso down'... Now the window is properly exposed but I have COMPLETELY lost my subject in darkness.

This feature has bugged me since day one. Iso should be adjustable on the fly, but I doubt it can be. Vitality would have already opened this up if it were a possibility. I have a feeling this setting is one that simply can't be adjusted to what we are asking. Like Per Lichtman (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?70728-Per-Lichtman) said, no cams on the market can currently do it!

stoneinapond
04-19-2012, 09:18 AM
or 5....... Get a good variable ND filter, set exposure higher and bring it down for the brightest moments using the filter. When the light changes, gently adjust filter.

Takes some practice, but can be done, even handheld. Needs to be a good filter though.

HotConductor
04-19-2012, 09:48 AM
GH2 is insanely noisy at high ISO... Thats what I want to avoid. If we had a full frame 5dmkii sensor, sure, I'd just shoot at 6400 to start with and make adjustments as needed. I'm with you though. Its definitely an option.

Per Lichtman
04-19-2012, 10:25 AM
@HotConductor I empathize, though I personally I would say that the noise level needed would be from a D3s (at 720P) or D4 (at 1080P). The 5DMkII does not get to the same level, tough a 5DMkIII or 1D X might (and in the latter case, I would be really surprised if it didn't).

You can see how much better the 5DMkIII is in lowlight video here.


http://vimeo.com/39916519 (http://vimeo.com/39916519)


As Oleg said in response to one of the comments on that video "
5dmk2 suffers heavy noise, I'd put it close to GH2 at ISO 1600 and higher. "

My solution in those situations is to shoot with an f/0.95 Nokton as opposed to the 20mm f/1.7. Then I can shoot at ISO 1600 or 1250 instead of ISO 3200.

mpgxsvcd
04-19-2012, 10:54 AM
The one thing that you are neglecting is that clicking buttons and turning wheels on the camera while filming ruins the video WAY more than any change in exposure can.

You can't possibly tell me that you can click the buttons or turn the wheel while shooting video and not shake the camera at all. Try hitting the buttons right now and see if you can shoot good footage.

Shutter priority works perfectly. You need to just control how you are shooting better.

stoneinapond
04-19-2012, 11:07 AM
The one thing that you are neglecting is that clicking buttons and turning wheels on the camera while filming ruins the video WAY more than any change in exposure can.

Not sure if this is a response to my post since there was no quote. However, just in case it is, nobody is talking about pressing buttons and turning filters at the same time. Obviously you start the camera first.

Ever pulled focus while the camera is shooting? Sure you have. So, same idea but with the control in a different place.

Don't dismiss something until you've tried it. I have and although it needs practice and it's really not recommended handheld, it can be done. But especially if you have a good tripod and a good filter.

YMMV.

mpgxsvcd
04-19-2012, 01:03 PM
Not sure if this is a response to my post since there was no quote. However, just in case it is, nobody is talking about pressing buttons and turning filters at the same time. Obviously you start the camera first.

Ever pulled focus while the camera is shooting? Sure you have. So, same idea but with the control in a different place.

Don't dismiss something until you've tried it. I have and although it needs practice and it's really not recommended handheld, it can be done. But especially if you have a good tripod and a good filter.

YMMV.


I wasn’t replying to anyone specifically. However, in the camera’s current form the only way you would be able to control ISO would be to click buttons or spin the non-continuous control wheel. Both of those things would cause vibration.

Now if they had some sort of continuous dial for adjusting ISO(Like a smooth focus wheel) it might be possible to get a steady shot with it. However, that doesn’t exist in the camera currently.

I think they left this feature out because their philosophy is that doing as little adjusting to the settings as possible during video is the best option. I tend to agree with that.

stoneinapond
04-19-2012, 01:07 PM
However, in the camera’s current form the only way you would be able to control ISO would be to click buttons or spin the non-continuous control wheel. Both of those things would cause vibration.

Without a doubt, that does not work well.

HotConductor
04-19-2012, 06:05 PM
I'm with you on clicking the wheel/changing settings. It definitely affects footage negatively. Thats no the issue. Whether its dimming a light or changing shutter speed with the click wheel, the footage I have during that time is unusable. However, thats not the issue. I want to keep rolling. Frequently I will shoot a concert in which I take a soundboard recording with a field recorder, and run around run-n-gun style with my GH2 on a Halo rig with a Comer 1800. I have had a few other rigs in the past but I really like this setup. The end result is edited however I want, but the audio is generally a matrix of the soundboard and on-camera mics. Every time I stop the camera to change ISO (due to insane lighting changes), it means I'm loosing that on-camera audio. Many folks would just take the board but I really like using a matrix to compensate for the rawness of a direct board patch.

Keep in mind, I am an insane audiophile who would much rather multi-track the entire thing, than do a simple promo with an audio matrix, but this is just one example. I have had a similar situation happen at a festival. Field recorder ran out of battery (last act went 2 hours longer than anticipated, and it was killer) so I had to plug in my wireless Sennheisser transmitters with a mini/micro adapter, leveled way way down, directly into the GH2. Well, if I need to adjust ISO that could mean missing an entire chorus of a a song.

The other thing is that I have gotten very smooth at making minor adjustments. I'm not saying it isn't noticeable, but that I am able to make minor changes and still use my footage without cutting. So yes, I would very much like a camera to implement the simple ability to change ISO on the fly. If the internal Panny compy can auto-iso, why can't I manual-iso? :thumbsup:

Iso is a verb now.

Per Lichtman
04-19-2012, 06:17 PM
@HotConductor Okay, ISO is now a verb. Got it. :)

Since you are a fellow audiophile (I can relate, most of my speaker systems are custom made by engineers I know personally and respect professionally) I have to ask if you have had any experience with one of my old clients, at http://www.blumenstein-ultra-fi.com (http://www.blumenstein-ultra-fi.com/)?

On the recording side, I definitely get where you are coming from in terms of both the ideal (personally, I am used to recording in the studio with a mixture of Neumann small and large diaphragm mics or a Telefunken ELAM 251-E, mixed with a Royer ribbon) but also in terms of the practical. It is that latter part that made start patching the AGC settings back in October. Have you been using the newest settings, either from my site at http://www.pasadenapulse.net or as incorporated in Driftwood's Sedna and Mysteron?

I find the new patched settings helpful both for metering and for being able to reduce digital gain almost entirely (or add a lot without getting into AGC level changes throughout the recording).

mpgxsvcd
04-20-2012, 07:23 AM
Give Shutter priority with Auto ISO(Never use Intelligent ISO) a try. Seriously it works better than some of you have indicated. However, it only works with M4/3s glass. Shutter priority with auto ISO will not function at all for MF glass.

If you are using MF glass then you are just S.O.L. They would definitely have to implement Auto ISO in Manual mode or allow you to change the ISO yourself for it to work.

maarek
04-20-2012, 08:00 AM
GH2 can't do this? Man. I regularly adjust my ISO on the 7d and nex-5n on the fly and it's a great feature that I thought was on every camera. I've had many shots saved where I had to adjust the exposure quickly. No problems at all "with clicking" or buttons. Auto ISO is the "solution?"

I just took a great shot of an explosion where the initial amount of ISO was quite wrong (hard to judge before it actually explodes) but I managed to save a good chunk of it by manually going down very quickly. With the GH2 I would've gotten an unusable shot.

ed_lee83
04-20-2012, 08:18 AM
Isn't AUTO ISO not good due to the ISO bugs (e.g. 320/640)? Or have they been solved since? Been off the radar...

mpgxsvcd
04-20-2012, 08:43 AM
I just took a great shot of an explosion where the initial amount of ISO was quite wrong (hard to judge before it actually explodes) but I managed to save a good chunk of it by manually going down very quickly. With the GH2 I would've gotten an unusable shot.

You would have in Shutter Priority with Auto ISO. I seriously doubt you can adjust the ISO manually faster than the camera can with Auto ISO. It is also a smooth transition with Auto ISO. It goes through each 1/3 of a stop instead of just stopping down instantly 5 stops.

Try it. You will like it.

mpgxsvcd
04-20-2012, 08:46 AM
Isn't AUTO ISO not good due to the ISO bugs (e.g. 320/640)? Or have they been solved since? Been off the radar...

Yes the so called ISO bug does happen. However, the difference in real world applications is negligible.

Not using a feature that works because of the possibly that another condition might produce unwanted but insignificant issues is not logical in my opinion.

Will Turner
04-20-2012, 09:04 AM
Just shoot manual/shutter/aperture priority and auto iso. Set the AE lock to hold. Problem solved.

HotConductor
04-20-2012, 10:27 AM
@HotConductor Okay, ISO is now a verb. Got it. :)

Since you are a fellow audiophile (I can relate, most of my speaker systems are custom made by engineers I know personally and respect professionally) I have to ask if you have had any experience with one of my old clients, at http://www.blumenstein-ultra-fi.com (http://www.blumenstein-ultra-fi.com/)?

On the recording side, I definitely get where you are coming from in terms of both the ideal (personally, I am used to recording in the studio with a mixture of Neumann small and large diaphragm mics or a Telefunken ELAM 251-E, mixed with a Royer ribbon) but also in terms of the practical. It is that latter part that made start patching the AGC settings back in October. Have you been using the newest settings, either from my site at http://www.pasadenapulse.net or as incorporated in Driftwood's Sedna and Mysteron?

I find the new patched settings helpful both for metering and for being able to reduce digital gain almost entirely (or add a lot without getting into AGC level changes throughout the recording).

I have never worked with Blumenstein but I love the design! Never heard of them but from a quick glance at the site they look solid! Mad props of the ribbon mic btw... The only problem is when they've been moved around alot, or used in a ton of different environments and not tuned up. They definitely need to be well cared for!

Just visited your site and it looks like you have addressed several key issues. For me, the biggest deal was to bring AC3 up to 320. Since PCM 48kHz 24bit is out of the question, its nice to bring the quality up a bit. And yes, the new settings are nice. Driftwood's work is the main reason I viewed the hack as a viable solution. I jump back n forth between several hacks, including a custom one modified of Cbrandin's old setting that is kindof a nice solid 'go-to' patch when it comes to long record times. Its such a joy to record an entire concert while just changing batteries every few hours. The ISO block is the ONLY reason I'd actually have to stop filming, aside from a battery change!

Phenixone
04-20-2012, 10:48 AM
Film cameras never had a variable ISO stock fillms and yet people have made gorgeous films without this option.
This is not an issue and will never be "fixed" in any pro cameras that I am aware of (RED, Sony F65...). So I don't see why GH2 should have this option.

Per Lichtman
04-20-2012, 11:02 AM
@mpgxsvcd @willturner Actually, based on my testing with AUTO ISO and manual lenses yesterday, the answer lies somewhere between the two of your comments. No, AUTO ISO does not exist when exposure mode is set to Manual in video mode. But if you set your exposure mode to shutter priority, AUTO ISO still kicks in with an old manual lens. I watched it brighten and darken as I panned from light areas to dark areas and vice-versa.

@HotConductor Glad the hack is helping some!

As far as the designs (long story coming), I can tell you from working with Clark Blumenstein that he is someone that eats, breathes and sleeps his craft. Years ago, Feastrex (the companies that makes the drivers used in his highest end designs) heard of him through his previous work and brought him over as the first non-Japanese person to ever work on the drivers. He spent months there as part of a team that made the driver cones by hand, with each pair of the highest end taking weeks to manufacture. He used that experience to build cabinets that made use of the depth of that understanding of the drivers.

Then he lived in his workshop to be closer to the manufacturing for years. He favors a very natural sound as opposed to another engineer that I use when I want a more clinical sound. With Blumenstein Ultra-Fi the concert pianists that heard themselves on his systems said things like "that's the closest it's ever been to hearing myself play". They also loved his woodwork, and he's done carpentry as long as audio.

Clark's the sort of guy that I had to convince to charge enough for his speakers to expand R & D. He was so intent on improving the sound that everyone got that he was selling some of the speakers that out-performed the competition for less than a 5th of the price, even though it left him with nothing to spend on R & D. That was years ago and he's married now, so I am hoping he's moved out of the workshop and is charging more now. :)

That probably sounded like an add, so I am not putting up the link to his site again this time. I just don't get enough chance to talk to audiophiles on the video forums. :)

mpgxsvcd
04-20-2012, 11:52 AM
@mpgxsvcd @willturner Actually, based on my testing with AUTO ISO and manual lenses yesterday, the answer lies somewhere between the two of your comments. No, AUTO ISO does not exist when exposure mode is set to Manual in video mode. But if you set your exposure mode to shutter priority, AUTO ISO still kicks in with an old manual lens. I watched it brighten and darken as I panned from light areas to dark areas and vice-versa.


Double check that. I will do the same tonight. Shutter priority does not function properly with Auto ISO and MF lenses. It will allow you to set it to that. However, it is not truly metering properly. I will have to do a video to show this.

Per Lichtman
04-20-2012, 12:01 PM
I believe that. The overexposed areas seemed to stay too over-exposed. But it seemed to handle the underexposed ones properly yesterday.

HotConductor
04-21-2012, 12:06 PM
@Per Lichtman... I just have to give you 'and your team' huge props for the audio settings you developed. I am really digging Driftwood's Quantum-X Pictoris (v5c) and decided to plug in your settings last night on a shoot. The results are very noticeable. I have been irritated by the meters forever, and you have definitely solved that. To answer your question on your site, I agree with your metering. Secondly, the staging... To have it set on level 1, and know that it is actually set at the lowest threshold possible, is great. Outstanding work.

Substantially less distortion was the most noticeable factor. I use a field recorder for all serious audio, but it is great to have usable on-cam audio. One less field recorder to bring to a gig.

Per Lichtman
04-21-2012, 12:18 PM
@HotConductor Thanks, it always means a lot to hear that the things I work on help people. So thanks for taking the time to mention it. :)

gonzo_entertainment
04-21-2012, 03:28 PM
Film cameras never had a variable ISO stock fillms and yet people have made gorgeous films without this option.
This is not an issue and will never be "fixed" in any pro cameras that I am aware of (RED, Sony F65...). So I don't see why GH2 should have this option.

It's a doc and event shooter thing. Makes no sense for narrative work, but I can see doc situations where it would be handy.

HotConductor
04-22-2012, 09:25 PM
Exactly! I'd love to have a controlled shoot but sometimes it truly is run-n-gun. This is where something like a traditional HMC/DVX type of camera is ideal, but the image coming out of the GH2 just destroys those options.

gonzo_entertainment
04-23-2012, 06:57 AM
More power to you guys. I love docs, watch them all the time, but would rather have un-anesthetized root canal than shoot one.

stoneinapond
04-23-2012, 11:14 AM
....but would rather have un-anesthetized root canal....

:Drogar-Shock(DBG):