New HD100 brochure

[Michael_Bott]

JVC lays its cards on the table ...

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/color_broch.jsp?tree=&model_id=MDL101539&itempath=&feature_id=12

[David Jimerson]

THIS is an interesting passage:

"Unlike ordinary SD 24p images, real 24p HD video down
converted to SD produces film-quality DVDs."

That's quite a claim in a 4:2:0 colorspace.

I may be wrong on this, but early on, wasn't it discussed that the HD100's method of obtaining 24p was by combining two 48p frames?

[Shaw]

That is quite the claim... very bold...

I believe the method that used 48 -> 24 was their motion smoothing filter which can be turned on or off.

[thisiswells]

"Unlike ordinary SD 24p images, real 24p HD video down
converted to SD produces film-quality DVDs."

ボローニャソーセージ
If you have Japanese typeface installed, the above says baloney.

[Barry_Green]

Shaw is correct, the 48fps->24fps thing was the motion smoothing filter, which they clearly say can be enabled or disabled.

[Neil Rowe]

"FILM-QUALITY" ???? uh, ....yes and my shoes are "earth -quality" what quality does film have? it entirely depends on what quality the film is . im not saying that the JVC's HD 24p will be poor quality by any means, but i cant stand it when companies use ambiguos sales language like .. " these wipre blades are really race quality" .. i mean , what on earth is "race quality".. if your in the indy 500 its one thing.. if your in the local soap box derby its another. they use terms like that to strongly imply one thing that they useually cannot deliver.. in the case of the JVC cam here.. i hope it DOES make dvds that look like film.. i would largely believe it can.. but only in the hands of a good operator and cinematographer with proper lighting ect (no different than dvx or xl2 or most other vid cam in the range really)... i just hate how they imply that your DVD's will look like film just cause you shooting in their 24p HD mode.

[David Jimerson]

Barry, can I assume that in your inevitable battery of tests, you will consider that claim above?

[Neil Rowe]

i thought it was interesting that it says it will also offer 2 16 bit 48k stereo tracks, and is scheduled to later have solid state media available as well as 1080i reocrding to HDD (or possibly other media) .. these are certainly big positives for the camera, and hoist it up a few notchces on the scale if al goes well with the implamentation .

[Barry_Green]

Barry, can I assume that in your inevitable battery of tests, you will consider that claim above?
Well, the claim can only really be settled in the eye of the beholder. I'll shoot some film next to some ProHD, and let the viewer decide which is which and which they prefer, and whether post-tweaking gets them where they're trying to go (basically the same thing I did on the DVX DVD).

[Barry_Green]

i thought it was interesting that it says it will also offer 2 16 bit 48k stereo tracks, and is scheduled to later have solid state media available as well as 1080i reocrding to HDD (or possibly other media) .. these are certainly big positives for the camera, and hoist it up a few notchces on the scale if al goes well with the implamentation .
Ah, but you misunderstand -- none of that is applicable to this camera. Those are extensions that would be offered under ProHD XE, likely in the forthcoming $27,000 2/3" camera next year. The current HD100 can only record one stereo pair, and that one is only recorded in MPEG-1 Layer II compression. No solid state media, no 1080i recording of any type. Those are features that may be explored on other cameras, but not on this one.

That brochure wasn't just about the HD100, it was about JVC's plans for ProHD across the line, including ProHD XE. Those future plans won't be implemented in the current cam.

[reservoir]

So in other words.....They'll wait until the HVX is released to see if those features are *hot* or if they *flop* (P2).....before they'll implement them into their product line??? :huh:

~reservoir~

[thisiswells]

A $27,000 HDV camera is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of in this industry.
It's like buying a 22MegaPixel medium format camera and setting it for "email quality"

Totally Ridiculous. Only JVC could make a camera that expensive with a $50 tape drive.
If ProHD XE doubles the bandwidth that's sort of different. HDV could be very pretty at 36Mbps.

[Rosestar]

swells]A $27,000 HDV camera is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of in this industry.
It's like buying a 22MegaPixel medium format camera and setting it for "email quality"

Totally Ridiculous. Only JVC could make a camera that expensive with a $50 tape drive.
If ProHD XE doubles the bandwidth that's sort of different. HDV could be very pretty at 36Mbps.[/QUOTE]


What you said!

"Defining the Future of Professional Video" is it just me or does anybody else hear the voice of the "Deep Voiced Trailer Announcer Guy" in their heads when you read this?

"Ripped from the headlines"

"The must see movie of the year"

"A shocking expose'"

"Defining the future of Professional Video"

ok, maybe it is just me.

[reservoir]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/17/Don.jpg

"In a World where the limits of Professional Video are being redefined.....!!"

I hope JVC hires Don Lafontaine to do their commercial Voice Over's!!

~reservoir~

[J.R. Hudson]

It says it has "Real 24p"

They must be dogging on the Sony Cineframe thingy. Is this really $27,000. NO way. Serious?

[David Jimerson]

Well, the claim can only really be settled in the eye of the beholder. I'll shoot some film next to some ProHD, and let the viewer decide which is which and which they prefer, and whether post-tweaking gets them where they're trying to go (basically the same thing I did on the DVX DVD).

Well, they made a direct claim comparing dowrezzed ProHD 24p and SD 24p and that the ProHD would be superior. I'd think that'd be a fair side-by-side.

[Rosestar]

It says it has "Real 24p"

They must be dogging on the Sony Cineframe thingy. Is this really $27,000. NO way. Serious?


Barry said that the are coming out with a $27K 2/3" camera next year. $27K HDV, WTF...

[thisiswells]

Barry said that the are coming out with a $27K 2/3" camera next year.
That's right, Rosestar. They've been hinting at it since about the time when John got his first 24p camera. It's been a long time coming. Here's a picture from April 2004:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/images/articles/jvc-hdv-nab-camcorder-2004-4.jpg
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/jvc-hdv-3ccd-nab-camcorder-04_20_04.htm

[Rosestar]

Isn't Panasonic planning an HVX big brother in the mid $20K range, I think I read it in a thread a while back?

[ChuckS]

A $27,000 HDV camera is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of in this industry.
It's like buying a 22MegaPixel medium format camera and setting it for "email quality"

Totally Ridiculous. Only JVC could make a camera that expensive with a $50 tape drive.
If ProHD XE doubles the bandwidth that's sort of different. HDV could be very pretty at 36Mbps.
Remember, A lot of punditd made similar statements about DV when it was introduced. I never believed that HD would be so compressed - but there it is.

Who knew... :shocked:

[thisiswells]

Remember, A lot of punditd made similar statements about DV when it was introduced. I never believed that HD would be so compressed - but there it is.
Yes, true. It never ceases to surprise me how some folks don't "get" DV. The idea was a lower entry cost. The first DV camera was $4k and ten years later a good DV camera remains about the same price. The problem would be when top shelf camera records on DV.. like, if the SDX900 only recorded to miniDV. Huge mistake. That's the direction JVC appears to be going, which is stupid. If they are intending a camera in that price range it needs to have something a little more advanced than 19Mbps HDV in the engine room. HDV cams in the same ballpark as a DV cam is an incredible idea and really I look forward to the HD100. I've (cringes) actually been thinking about ordering one. I stand my ground on the $27K camera. It needs to have a more advanced recording method to justify the cost. Panasonic will likely introduce a P2 VariCam next year for around $40K street price (speculated, although it seems to reason) and JVC needs to be competitive and be cheaper because they are JVC.

[Rosestar]

This brochure really gets my goat. "So one day we will give you 1080i"... "One day, we will give you 4 channels of uncompressed audio"...

What's wrong with today?

[lacuna]

This brochure really gets my goat. "So one day we will give you 1080i"... "One day, we will give you 4 channels of uncompressed audio"...

What's wrong with today?

We'll you can't get your hans on an HVX today either. Come to think of it Jan started disseminating info on that camera early this year, bless her soul, and it won't be available till... and don't you remember the original Pana handheld P2/HD mock camera was shown way back at NAB 2004 - a design that never materialised (well, it morphed into the HVX). I'm not knocking Pana, just asking you to give JVC a break.

I think JVC's done a pretty good job in delivering the HD100. It was announced just before NAB and it'll be in shops in a matter of weeks. And the price keeps falling away too... last I checked you can order one for $5400!

As for the features you refer to, well JVC has been pretty clear that they will be on the forthcoming GY-HD7000, also rolled out at NAB. See this interview:

http://www.dvformat.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=31724

By the way guys, the $27000 figure floating around was for a 2/3" HD camera including lens - with optional HD-SDI in/out and who knows what else when it eventuates. Street price could be well below that. Put a decent lens on the DSR570 and you're not talking about a cheap camera either. Plenty of high-end DV/DVCAM/DVCPRO units have sold, despite DV's humble origins.

It's good for everyone that JVC is coming forth as a real contender. What I like about the HD100 is that there's some real innovation there. And in terms of form factor, it just seems to be a really well desgined camera. It's just got that HDV issue hanging over it - but maybe it'll come through with flying colours.

Barry I like your wait and see approach. Look forward to your review of the HD100

[Neil Rowe]

Ah, but you misunderstand -- none of that is applicable to this camera. Those are extensions that would be offered under ProHD XE, likely in the forthcoming $27,000 2/3" camera next year. The current HD100 can only record one stereo pair, and that one is only recorded in MPEG-1 Layer II compression. No solid state media, no 1080i recording of any type. Those are features that may be explored on other cameras, but not on this one.

That brochure wasn't just about the HD100, it was about JVC's plans for ProHD across the line, including ProHD XE. Those future plans won't be implemented in the current cam.



..misunderstood indeedilly doo. ..in reading the brochure somewhat hastily it sounded like those " future upgrades" were intended for the camera highlighted in the brochure. lol, back down a few notches there JVC..

[xray]

It is a pity they did not bring the extra 2ch PCM audio in this model. It would given the HDV [Pro] claim more weight. If you take a closer look at the 'motionfilter' you can see that 60P/ 50P is already internally in the system (in component mode) but they combine the two frames -in 720 mode- to create a 'no time shifted' progressive frame.

Probably the bandwidth is the problem, if they can enlarge that (MPEG-2 gives room for enhancements) and if they can speed up the processor/ memory it should be possible to write that 720/60P signal with intelligent compression on a harddisk.

JVC showed us yesterday some new homevideocams working not with tape, not with DVD, not with P2.. but with 2,5" laptopharddisk. It records MPEG-2 with 9mb/s . Even the smallest version ( 20 GB) can record continuously for 4,5 hour.

[athouguia]

I'm just waiting for it's availability to get one. This is the first real professional HDV camcorder, however I don't understand why they used RCA connectors instead of the BNC. Also, there are no TCin and out... you cannot syncronize the timecode with other cameras cameras, and that's a pity!

[thisiswells]

This brochure really gets my goat. "So one day we will give you 1080i"... "One day, we will give you 4 channels of uncompressed audio"...

What's wrong with today?
I agree with rosestar. Could someone explain to me the Pro in ProHD? On the surface the format doesn't appear different than we already had. PCM audio would have been a real upgrade. Not to discredit the wonderful direction they are going, but this camera isn't just half baked, it's completely baked.