Not sure what to wait for...

[Oli.S]

Hi there,

I'm new to this board. :happy:


For quite a while I was sure that I was going to get a DVX100A.
Then I heard about the upcoming HVX200 and was instantly convinced
that I'll wait for that one.

Reading through a few magazines lately, I stumbled over something that
I hadn't noticed yet: the upcoming JVC GY-HD 100.

I hope this has not been discussed here yet. I used the search function of
this board and it gave me zero matches.

So please let me know:
what do you think about the JVC GY-HD 100 in comparison to the HVX200?

kind regards,
Oli

[Oli.S]

Here are two pics of the JVC camera:

http://www.jvc-camcorder.de/images/GY-HD100-seite.jpg
http://www.jvc-camcorder.de/images/GY-HD100-hinten.jpg

[wabbit]

Tou searched the wrong thread. Here you go...
http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/forumdisplay.php?f=46

[Oli.S]

Uhm. :shocked:

DOH! :laugh:

Thanks for pointing this out.
Sometimes you just can't see the forest because there are so many trees in your way...

kind regards,
Oli

[Zim]

It is a sharp looking camera. I like that ear piece. I guess a head set would be better. I would hope you can turn it off if you wanted too.

[Simon Wyndham]

I don't think it's an earpiece. The JVC brochure labels it as a cheek brace, or something along those lines, forget the exact phrase they used.

[Bart_Boge]

I do have to admit that this thing looks killer. For all of HDV's compromises and inherent shortcomings, people will probably get a lot of decent work done with these, all on el cheapo DV tape. No mortgage-your-house P2s, FireStores, or straight-to-your-laptop cobble jobs.

The HVX looks tubbier and less "pro."

But hey, it can look like a piece of junkyard scrap for all I care. 1080p. 1080-frikin'-p! In the real world of post editing, color correction, chroma key, etc., there will be no contest whatsoever between HDV and DVCPRO100-HD.

I'[m sure they were never actually intended to be competing formats anyway. HDV is strictly a consumer format, and DVCPRO100 a professional one. And I'm not being critical here. My hat's off to the engineers who got 1080i on DV tape AT ALL. That is an incredible amount of resolution for a very small bottleneck of allowable bandwidth, even if the compression is interframe and color depth 4:2:0.

Panasonic has just followed a different problem-solving path. One which I think makes more sense in the long run. But the JVC low-cost HD solution will win many converts due to low cost and ease of production right out of the box. Power up, pop in a miniDV tape and --walaah! HD recording!

The HVX will require a lot more "massaging" by the end user to do HD, but once you figure out a workable system, the payoff will be huge. But we'll see...

[Oli.S]

I don't think it's an earpiece. The JVC brochure labels it as a cheek brace, or something along those lines, forget the exact phrase they used.

It has a small cable on it's backside.
It looks a lot like a speaker to me.

I've seen other pics of this cam before though with a different "thing" attached. that looked a lot more like a cheek brace. So the speaker thing might be some extra kit.

[Zim]

This one will probably hurt Canon more than Panasonic.

It does have a cable. I'd say it's a speaker.

[xray]

I'm sure they were never actually intended to be competing formats anyway. HDV is strictly a consumer format, and DVCPRO100 a professional one. And I'm not being critical here.

DV is a consumer format too and as you know, there are a lot of professionals using it... Even filmmakers. So HDV(pro) will give them a format or a tool like the JVC100 they can use. It is small, handy, cheap tape and a high detailed image. Sure you can go better, but is it (HDV) something you can use? I think so.

[Zig_Zigman]

This is a documentary dream cam.

[mmm]

I'[m sure they were never actually intended to be competing formats anyway. HDV is strictly a consumer format, and DVCPRO100 a professional one.

Really agree with what you said Bart, but HDV has been developed for more than just consumer level. Look at the Sony Z1 and the HD100 (although ProHD), they are definitely not consumer cameras.

DV wasn't ever supposed to be used professionally, but turned out to be so good, that it was. I think they relised that with HDV, they were designing a product to overlap the consumer and professional world. IMO DV is superior to Beta SP, and I think that HDV shows many advantages over a few more "professional" formats. Anyone know if, (well when) Sony are releasing the HDV version of the DSR 570 etc??

[lacuna]

This is a documentary dream cam.

I second that. And for event videography too. Small and light, but with a pro look. Nice lens. Record to hard disk and tape simultaneously with no worries about run time.

Tempting...

And I'm sure a lot of people will be using HD100s to make great indi-films with too. At the end of the day it's all about content.

For the majority of applications, I don't think many lay people (ie: viewers at home or in the cinema) will be able to spot the difference between content shot on differing HD formats. A good film is a good film.

To me the wide-end of the HVX lens is a real attraction, rather more than the format. And P2 will be great when prices drop and capacities increase. For now, I'm more interested in which camera will perform better in low light. They will both be cramming around a million pixels into those little 1/3" sensors. Noise... I hate noise.

By the way, that is indeed a headphone on the side of the HD100 but I've read that it's removeable. It's listed as an accessory.

www.globalmediapro.com is taking preorders at $5400 inc. stock lens. A year ago that price for a camera of this calibre would have been unbelievable. It still looks pretty attractive.

[Barry_Green]

This one will probably hurt Canon more than Panasonic.
Depends on if/how/when Canon responds. If Canon were to introduce 1080/24p and 1080/60i, there's still some market left for them. But if not -- yes, I think JVC will steal most of Canon's thunder.


I'd say it's a speaker.
It's my understanding that it's a speaker, and they make a speaker attachment that fits over your head and feeds your left ear too, thus making it basically "headphones".

[Barry_Green]

This is a documentary dream cam.
That could be an ideal market for it.

[Barry_Green]

And for event videography too.
Without 60p, I think it'll find limited use for events. Some events may not mind the 30p look, but all I can think of is how people howled when MTV tried broadcasting its music video awards in 24p -- people *hated* it. Live events should look "live".


A year ago that price for a camera of this calibre would have been unbelievable. It still looks pretty attractive.
It's flat-out amazing. Especially because JVC teased us with a price tag of "under $10,000" and then when they actually announced it they set it at $6,295.

[Zim]

Barry I'm sure 60p probably looks better, but isn't 60i still used for weddings and those type of events?

Yes if Canon came out with a XL3 or a GL3 1080/24p they would be in the run. I know the JVC isn't out and we don't know if it is even any good, but if it is, I think alot of people would pick the HD100U over the XL2.

[Zim]

I just read that the JVC will record 480/60P. Wouldn't that be pretty good for events?

[Barry_Green]

Barry I'm sure 60p probably looks better, but isn't 60i still used for weddings and those type of events?
Sure it is -- but the thing is, the JVC can't do either (in high-def). If you want to shoot high-def, you are stuck with the low-framerate 24p or 30p look.

In high-def 720, 60p is used to get the "reality" look, with a motion look similar to 60i (but better because each frame is complete rather than split into fields). That's how ABC is broadcasting the NBA finals, that's how American Idol broadcasts, that's how the "live" look is done. The JVC has no provision for that -- no high-def 60i or 60p. No "live" look. You have to drop down to standard-def if you want to shoot the "live" look.


I just read that the JVC will record 480/60P. Wouldn't that be pretty good for events?
Sure, as long as you understand you're talking about standard-def. I don't think too many people are looking to the JVC HD100 and lusting after its standard-def capabilities -- they want it to shoot high-def. However, if you're okay with shooting standard-def, then yes the JVC offers flexibility -- it can shoot regular DV at 60i, or "SD mode" at 60p (recorded with MPEG-2).

I wonder how well the SD mode would up-rez to 720/60p... hmmm...


Yes if Canon came out with a XL3 or a GL3 1080/24p they would be in the run. I know the JVC isn't out and we don't know if it is even any good, but if it is, I think alot of people would pick the HD100U over the XL2.
Haven't used the HD100 yet, but yeah -- I can't imagine a reason someone would pick an XL2 over the JVC, unless they really, really, really need to save that extra $1000. Based on the specs it's a no-brainer. The JVC does 24p/30p/60i in standard-def off a 16:9 CCD, and so does the XL2. The JVC has interchangeable lenses, and so does the XL2 (except the JVC can use industry-standard 1/2" bayonet lenses too, where the Canon can't). But the JVC can also do SD 60p, something the XL2 can't. And the JVC can do high-def, let's not forget that!

Actually, there are two things the XL2 can do that the JVC can't, and they're pretty big/important things: autofocus and OIS. If you need AF and OIS, the JVC isn't the camera for you. But if you can live without them, I think the JVC has the XL2 owned left and right (pending seeing what the footage looks like, of course!)

[Zim]

No auto focus?? What are they thinking. I like auto focus most of the time. I use it on my Nikons about 99% of the time. Why not!!
Maybe they will add that feature before it is released.
another reason to wait for the HVX,,,,

[Barry_Green]

No autofocus because the lens they use doesn't have it, nor does the optional lens. If there's ever to be autofocus on the JVC, it would have to be implemented in the lens itself -- there's no support hardware in the body for AF.

With that said, the peaking was very, very nice on the JVC, so manual focus shouldn't be difficult at all.

[thisiswells]

the JVC can also do SD 60p, something the XL2 can't.
I would buy the HD100 over the XL2 myself. For clarification, 480P60 on the HD100 is
recorded in using a non-standard implementation of six frame gop mpeg2 (i.e. HDV).