AC130 taping a Ice Show with Auto-focus

[Firefox39]

So I was a little scared to use my new AC130s to videotape a skating show using auto-focus. Not sure how anyone would want, or even could, use manual focus for an event like this. Especially with a single skater skating fast!

You will see two samples below. The first one is a sample video. It starts with a complete performance from one skater with the main camera perspective (no sound). After that there are a few clips that you can see the auto-focus not working very good. The second is a preview video for the skating show.

My overall thoughts:
- Overall I am "Satisfied" with the auto-focus for this event (I had low expectations to begin with)
- The auto-focus was not as good as last year when we used Canon XH-A1, but not much worse
- Besides auto-focus, everything else was great using the AC130 for an event like this
- Love my new scene file picture profile, love the color. Let me know if you would like the details

Sample of the auto-focus (FYI no sound) (If needed Pw: "AC130")

http://vimeo.com/38891251
Skating Show Preview


http://vimeo.com/38897650

[digitalgecko]

Sports videographers have been shooting skaters with manual focus for years. It just takes practice. I thought your preview cut together very nicely.

[ChrisHarding]

It's a tough call to expect the auto focus to behave accurately all the time .. Look at 1:24 and you will see the autofocus had to deal with the skater, messy background AND a big stainless steel pole right in the foreground!! I think it did a neat job..that's why we shoot on two cameras...if one loses focus, the other is there to cover it....it's quite easy to lose focus in manual too!!! especially if you have to follow a skater around a rink!!! I still use autofocus and only now and again I have to use the focus ring to tweak the auto position. Your tracking the skater was pretty darn good too!!! It must be difficult at that speed!!

Chris

[rzr219]

Very nice work, I was just checking out all your other stuff. I love the color, I just got a 250 and am waiting for barrey's book to set up some scene files for the stage performances I do. :thumbsup:

[ChrisHarding]

Hi Firefox

Youir scene file details would be nice!! Did you use one of the standard files or a special customised one??? I'm trying to get a nice profile for weddings but most standard files seem to push contrast way too much and people end up with dark skin tones!! Your skater's skin tones look very natural!!

Chris

[Firefox39]

Hi Firefox

Youir scene file details would be nice!! Did you use one of the standard files or a special customised one??? I'm trying to get a nice profile for weddings but most standard files seem to push contrast way too much and people end up with dark skin tones!! Your skater's skin tones look very natural!!

Chris

Chris,

Below is what I think I used for the skating show. I was trying to get a look that I could just use and not color correct in post. Something with nice skin tones but a little saterated. I like color. Let me know what you think. I think I am close so if you have some suggestions to make it better, let me know. I call it VIVID1


Detail level: +2
Vertical detail level: +2
Detail Coring: +3
Chroma level: +4
Chroma phase: +4
Color Temp A: +2
Color Temp B: +2
Master Ped: -1
IRIS Level: -2 (for the dance show I change it to +2 because of the bright ice)
DRS: if on, on 1
Gamma: HD Norm
Matrix: Cine-Like
Skin Tone DTL: ON

[amendegw]

Hmmm... I see some strange things in Video 1. The focus seems to follow the skaters nicely, even when poles (posts?) come in view.

However, at 03:28 & 03:40, the camera seem to lose focus for no apparent reason. It does seem to recover quickly, however.

...Jerry

[ChrisHarding]

Thanks FireFox

I give that a try over the weekend..I would suspect that the iris would be fine at -2 but on ice or the beach it might have to be pushed to +1 or +2 It would be great here if we could have maybe a sticky with scene files in it and maybe a screen shot showing the 130/160 standard and the new scene.... weddings especially need a change of scene file as you might be out in the bright outdoors at a ceremony and then inside a reception centre under CFL lighting!!

During my wedding last weekend the autofocus totally lost the plot when I had to zoom and swing away to someone talking way off on the side... I had several heads in the way and the autofocus didn't know what to do..it was fine once it had a normal scene to lock onto. Even my HMC80's used to lose focus at dance recitals at full zoom (on 12X) and I had to zoom right out to let it correct itself. Dunno about anyone else but I haven't had any autofocus issues at all at full wide angle...the camera only seems to struggle a bit on very tight zoom shoots. Just remember we are looking at it from a very technical POV!! The average viewer wouldn't even see that!!!

Chris

[ChrisHarding]

I actually did a comparison between your Vivid1 and Spark (standard F3 Panasonic File) They are actually quite close in the "look" .... At weddings I will often have quite a tight shot of the bride and groom on one camera and I found that doing closeups your Vivid1 does tend to push the skin tone a little towards the red...it's probably just a bit oversaturated for skin tones for the look I want..otherwise it's excellent. I still need to get Barry Green's book over from the USA to fully understand exactly what things like the Master Pedestal affects... For most normal scenes I think I would leave yours as they are but maybe drop Chroma down to +2 .. For normal even lighting the Autoiris is pefect at -2 but as you say with a really bright scene it would need to come up a bit!!! I found that the main problem with skin tones(that go a little red) is due to the Colour Temp being at +2 and also Phase (which adjusts hue) being at +2.. they appear a lot more natural at 0 ..but that's just me !!

Vivid1 is certainly a whole lot better than the standard F1 file ...colour is most definately quite washed out with that setting...even footage at my last wedding shot with my GoPro stuck on a pole had more wow factor than the default AC-130 scene file!!!! The first thing every 130/160 owner needs to do is change the F1 scene file!!!!! The nicest "base" file to use for general work is F3 ...I have no idea why that wasn't the default scene file as it's a great starting point.

Sharing is very much appreciated!!!

Chris

[Firefox39]

I actually did a comparison between your Vivid1 and Spark (standard F3 Panasonic File) They are actually quite close in the "look" .... At weddings I will often have quite a tight shot of the bride and groom on one camera and I found that doing closeups your Vivid1 does tend to push the skin tone a little towards the red...it's probably just a bit oversaturated for skin tones for the look I want..otherwise it's excellent. I still need to get Barry Green's book over from the USA to fully understand exactly what things like the Master Pedestal affects... For most normal scenes I think I would leave yours as they are but maybe drop Chroma down to +2 .. For normal even lighting the Autoiris is pefect at -2 but as you say with a really bright scene it would need to come up a bit!!! I found that the main problem with skin tones(that go a little red) is due to the Colour Temp being at +2 and also Phase (which adjusts hue) being at +2.. they appear a lot more natural at 0 ..but that's just me !!

Vivid1 is certainly a whole lot better than the standard F1 file ...colour is most definately quite washed out with that setting...even footage at my last wedding shot with my GoPro stuck on a pole had more wow factor than the default AC-130 scene file!!!! The first thing every 130/160 owner needs to do is change the F1 scene file!!!!! The nicest "base" file to use for general work is F3 ...I have no idea why that wasn't the default scene file as it's a great starting point.

Sharing is very much appreciated!!!

Chris

Thanks for the input Chris, I totally agree with you. I personally like the more "red" look so you are correct in your observation. To get a more of a natural skin tone move down the Chroma Phase as well as the Color Temp a little down. One or two notches down should be fine.

[ChrisHarding]

Thanks!! I actually found an PDF file from Panasonic that explains exactly how each parameter affects your image and some useful tips about setting stuff. It's important to know what each parameter actually does instead of blindly setting it and hope it works!!
My base settings now are all the same as yours except I have made Vertical Detail =0, I have dropped Chroma down one notch to 3 instead of 4 and I've made Phase and Colour Temp all zero too. It produces a nice rich image which isn't over contrasty and certainly not washed out like the default scene file produces!!!

Chris

[tylerdlugolecki]

would you mind sharing that pdf?

[ChrisHarding]

Hi

Glad to!!! The link is below..I suspect that it's on the Panasonic Japan site too!!! but where is the question!! I haven't seen one yet for the 160 but all the parameters are the same as the HMC150.

http://www.filmrocks.com/pdf/AG_HMC150SceneFileHandbook.pdf

Chris

[tirapell]

Thanks!! I actually found an PDF file from Panasonic that explains exactly how each parameter affects your image and some useful tips about setting stuff. It's important to know what each parameter actually does instead of blindly setting it and hope it works!!
My base settings now are all the same as yours except I have made Vertical Detail =0, I have dropped Chroma down one notch to 3 instead of 4 and I've made Phase and Colour Temp all zero too. It produces a nice rich image which isn't over contrasty and certainly not washed out like the default scene file produces!!!

Chris

What are you guys setting Knee at? Leaving at Auto?

[ChrisHarding]

Sorry

Missed this post !!

Yes I'm keeping knee set at auto.... since the last update I have lifted Vertical Detail to +2 as well... Still toying with the Matrix settings!!

Chris

[ChrisHarding]

Hi Guys

Just for interest I think the new autofocus Panny are using only struggles when it encounters a quick change in focal length! I also do Realty shoots during the week..(just a basic record of the state of rental properties) and it's all done at full wide with auto-iris and auto focus..each shoot is around 60 minutes as I'm doing every room in the home as well as outdoor areas too...I shot 4 properties yesterday and no one had a focus issue..even with quick changes in camera angle, scans across floors, and white ceilings with virtually no contrast in the image and the auto focus keeps up well. At a wedding with a small amount of zoom the autofocus also handles it perfectly but suddenly zoom to a tight shot of the couple and it loses it....Also during wedding speeches when the person speaking walks away from the lectern the focus struggles to focus on a blank space which has suddenly appeared, BUT only if you have zoomed in a bit...a shot can change completely at wide angle and there is no issue but tight shots seem to be the problem from what I can discover. I think the answer here mainly is to be aware of the focus issue if you have to zoom and correct a sudden tight shot manually... staying wide, the focus certainly does look after itself..!!

I would be interested in knowing what sort of zoom was used at the ice show??? I sometimes do the odd dance recital around the year end and it would be good to have a heads up on what to do if you are shooting from the back of the theatre...?? With the 130/160's great low light performance you could probably lock it down in manual and still have enough depth of field of the entire stage to stay in focus!

Chris