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View Full Version : GH2 Audio setup with GH2, monitoring the audio during a shoot



staticmotion
12-29-2011, 05:25 AM
Been working with my GH2 for a while now and I realy love it. But there's one thing I'm still strugling with. Audio!

I've got my GH2 in a selfbuild rig with my old manual Minolta lenses, a Ikan VL5 monitor, some light and a Rode Videomic Pro hooked up to the camera.
This works very nice but I'm not able to monitor the recorded audio. This already led to a problem one time because the audio wasn't as good as I thought.
I have a Zoom H1 which I use sometimes, but syncing audio during the edit is not a nice job.

So my question is: What would be the best way to set up the audio recording?
I want to listen to the audio during recording (headphones),
I want to record either the Rode Videomic Pro or an other microphone,
and preferebly I want to record to the camera and not to a external recorder like a Zoom or Tascam.
(would be nice if you could do multitrack recording on the GH2, but I'm afraid that wil never happen)


TIA

TheDingo
12-29-2011, 07:33 AM
You essentially have two routes to go...

1- Mic ---> Digital Recorder ( with headphone jack ) ---> GH-2

You can record both with the digital recorder and your GH-2, so for quick work the GH-2 audio might be just fine


2- Mic ---> Field Mixer ( with headphone jack ) ---> XLR to Stereo Mini-plug adapter ---> GH-2

You have the option of connecting a digital recorder to the aux /"tape out" from the field mixer so that you have two copies of your audio.

...I have also shot with UHF mics fed directly in to the GH-2 with no audio monitoring, but I watch the audio meters closely, and carefully pre-test my set-up in advance. Below is a quicki interview I shot last summer using a Sennheiser UHF hand-held mic fed directly to my GH-2. I ran a bunch of tests with this set-up before showing up on location, and found that it was pretty difficult to clip the audio with the settings I used. ( I also have pretty good ears for picking up background noise ) Yes, it's risky, but I didn't have a digital recorder with me at the time.

Micheal Vonn talks about E-Health, HIV and Privacy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ9L40psdfY)

JackBayer
12-29-2011, 07:56 AM
Also possible:
Mic
->
H1
->
headphone jack doubler
-> GH2
-> headphone

staticmotion
12-29-2011, 08:47 AM
Thanks a lot for you're quick replies.

Just found out about this nice peace of software "pluraleyes" which makes my firts thoughts about manual syncing redundent. So I think I'll go with

Mic
->
H1 recording
->
-> headphone monitoring
->
-> sync audio with pluraleyes.

I'm going to test this workflow. Price is reasonable. And perhaps in the future I'll buy me a Tascam DR100 as an upgrade for the Zoom H1

Thanks

JackBayer
12-29-2011, 10:38 AM
If you did both, I mean record from mic into your H1 and also slave that into your GH2, you´d have almost identical audiostreams which will produce even better results with pluraleyes.

Pluraleyes sometimes can´t deliver if your in-camera audio is too different from what is to be synced. For example if you´re outside and record an interview with a lav or boom into the H1, you got super audio there. But in-camera you´ll have either very low volume or high noise. Both mean little or bad data to work with for pluraleyes.

staticmotion
12-30-2011, 09:51 AM
Thanks for the tip. I'll test it with some of my old projects.


Like youre lenses! Recently bought me a MD 28-70mm 3.5 and like it a lot.

DrDave
12-30-2011, 10:17 AM
If you did both, I mean record from mic into your H1 and also slave that into your GH2, you´d have almost identical audiostreams which will produce even better results with pluraleyes.

Pluraleyes sometimes can´t deliver if your in-camera audio is too different from what is to be synced. For example if you´re outside and record an interview with a lav or boom into the H1, you got super audio there. But in-camera you´ll have either very low volume or high noise. Both mean little or bad data to work with for pluraleyes.
Whether or not you use pluraleyes, this is a good tip as you want your in cam waveform to have a real profile.

cesardeuve
12-30-2011, 12:37 PM
ok, but, there is no way to listen what gh2 record.
this is very painful... the sync route isn 't nice... you have to spend more time for the same work... really frustating
sometimes i have the felling that, yes, with gh2 we have beautiful shots but the workflow is like going 20 years ago, syncing sound...
... to have a simple headphones mic doesn't seems to add a lot of budget to the same camera... i can imagine the boss at panasonic: "yeah, f___ them, if they want a proper cam they can buy af100"
:kali:

JackBayer
12-30-2011, 01:10 PM
Did you use an attenuator (http://www.markertek.com/Cables/Audio-Cables/DSLR-Audio-Cables/Sescom/LN2MIC-ZMH4-MON.xhtml)cable? Mic-in on the GH2 is mic-level, audio out from H1 is line-level (way hotter). Without it everything will be distorted. It´s a must.
With this cable you get usable levels into the GH2 and you can plug your headphones in aswell. You´d need a 3,5 to 2,5mm adapter plug or cable on top of that.

JackBayer
12-30-2011, 01:11 PM
I´m sure you do! :)

My 28mm 2,8 is a little loose in the adapter. All others are fine but this one can twist for about half a centimeter. How´s yours??

TheDingo
12-30-2011, 01:48 PM
ok, but, there is no way to listen what gh2 record. this is very painful... the sync route isn 't nice... you have to spend more time for the same work... really frustating
sometimes i have the felling that, yes, with gh2 we have beautiful shots but the workflow is like going 20 years ago, syncing sound...

Synching is fairly easy if you let both the GH-2 and your digital recorder just run wild, with no stop'n'starts for each take.

You end up with one big long file for both audio and video, then you simply have to synch the audio once ( which may involve time-adjustment to match the GH-2 footage ) and then cut your clips out of the one big video file. I've been doing this for the past 10 years, long before DSLRs came around.

Phenixone
12-30-2011, 04:18 PM
What I do is
Mic - Recorder - Headphone jack splitter (specific cable) - Headphones / Wireless input -~~~- wireless -~~~- Wireless out - GH2

Like this it records the same sound on your GH2 and the external recorder and you get a backup/sync sound on your camera without being tethered to the boom-pole.

tommyp
12-30-2011, 07:00 PM
I am seriously thinking about a mixpre-d as my next purchase but they aren't really cheap. Right now I do h4n/h1 with sescom. Works but I would like to be able to see levels better on the fly.

Shooter
12-30-2011, 08:25 PM
If anyone was to connect audio ( from whatever xlr mics) to a GH2 via a field mixer... how would they set that up.?

My field mixer can produce a tone signal...so could that be used in a set up for the appallingly limited audio controls on the GH2.

I assume that I could trial and error this for ever and a day but hopefuly some one knows what the tragically basic ( 1,2,3) Mic Input levels mean.

TheDingo
12-31-2011, 07:36 AM
If anyone was to connect audio ( from whatever xlr mics) to a GH2 via a field mixer... how would they set that up?

I run LINE LEVEL out on my MixPre mixer to a BeachTek DXA-2s ( passive XLR to mini-plug adapter that can accept MIC / LINE level signals, with 2 pots to further adjust the signal ) which plugs directly in to the GH-2. I use a Hirose 3.5mm to 2.5mm right-angle adapter ( $3.50 from B&H Photo ) to plug the BeachTek in to the GH-2.

This system works really well, and all of the cable-strain is taken up by the BeachTek unit. The DXA-2s model has been discontinued ( replaced by the DXA-2T ), but you can often find these used on eBay in the $50 - 75 price range.

Here's an earlier post with pictures of my DXA-2s set-up: BeachTek DXA-2s for GH-2 XLR inputs (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?269286-Audio-Gear-for-GH2-Shooting&p=2489327&viewfull=1#post2489327)

Shooter
12-31-2011, 12:43 PM
Thanx for the helpful info Dingo.

How about going directly from the field mixer to the GH2?

I know I have to trial and error this a bit (but I am no sound guy) and a starting point in the murky world of audio levels would be good to know.

eg tone signal out of a field mixer should be showing what on the GH2.

I assume if I get the connection set up level correct...I can just ride the mic levels from the field mixer (VUs)

TheDingo
12-31-2011, 02:46 PM
How about going directly from the field mixer to the GH2?

Sure, as long as your mixer can output MIC level audio ( my now discontinued MixPre only outputs LINE level ), and you find a way of securing your XLR cables to remove the strain from the GH-2 mini-plug socket.

I like the flexibility the BeachTek adapter affords, as it means I can take MIC or LINE level and still have some control over the signal level with the BeachTek pots.


eg tone signal out of a field mixer should be showing what on the GH2.

You should be just in to the red with your tone signal on. The AGC circuit in the GH-2 acts more like a limiter than a gain circuit, so as long as your signal is not constantly riding in the red when recording, you should be OK.


I assume if I get the connection set up level correct...I can just ride the mic levels from the field mixer (VUs)

Yes, trust your mixer level indicators to ride the signal level, and the GH-2 should have no problems. It's also a not a bad idea to connect a low cost digital recorder to your mixer if it has a secondary out, so that you've got a second audio source if there are problems with the GH-2. ( I've never had problems, but as you know it's always good to have options )

Shooter
12-31-2011, 03:51 PM
Thanx for all that ...again.

Very helpful.

dishan
12-31-2011, 06:24 PM
Man, I wish Magic Lantern existed on the Gh2. I love headphone monitoring out of my Canon 550D.

Meanwhile, I've been toying with the idea of simply plugging in a headphone splitter by the camera, have the mic going into one end, and a little fiio headphone amp driving my earphones. The problem is, there is no guarantee that the sound going into the camera is as clean as you are hearing it. But at least it will let you know if there is something wrong with the mic, right? Crackling, background noise, wind, etc...

I suppose having an external recorder on there would be a good thing, just in case, but in my work (mostly live event and docu stuff), syncing in post on ALL those little clips (even with plural eyes, which I have) is a PITA. Even if just because I have to keep track of my audio and video files on the same drives, make sure yet another device is charged and recording, etc.

Again, I haven't actually used the GH2 on a shoot like this yet. I'm still using my Canon until I'm confident enough to switch for pro work.

cesardeuve
01-06-2012, 09:47 AM
Synching is fairly easy if you let both the GH-2 and your digital recorder just run wild, with no stop'n'starts for each take.
thanks for the tip, thedingo... sounds logical, but just in some scenarios... not always. not for doco works, for example. still searching, and thinking in panasonic :badputer:

TheDingo
01-06-2012, 11:08 AM
sounds logical, but just in some scenarios... not always. not for doco works, for example

You can still slate your work and keep track of the timing for each take, you just don't turn the camera or recorder off so that synching will have to be done only once, up to what will fit on to a memory card or when you are finished filming in a specific area. I've done this with up to 3 hours of footage as one video clip, without any problems.

Lez
01-06-2012, 11:22 AM
Good old hand clap for syncing... If you can't get one in at the head of the take... then do it as a tail slate... clap at the end...

The spike in the timeline is easy to match... the only issue I have is sometimes it's a 1/2 frame out and video editing software won't allow you to slip less than a frame...

We never really had audio on 16mm only some mag-striped reversal stock for shooting with the Arri CP... it was all double headed...

Cheers

TheDingo
01-06-2012, 12:21 PM
the only issue I have is sometimes it's a 1/2 frame out and video editing software won't allow you to slip less than a frame...

...But you can easily adjust the timing of the audio track to be an exact match of your video. I went through a half dozen audio editors trying to find one that was accurate enough to re-time 3 hours of audio to be frame accurate with the video I shot, and surprising the only one up to the task was the cheapie $19 GoldWave editor.

GoldWave Audio Editor : $19 (http://www.goldwave.com/)

The function you use in GoldWave is called "TimeWarp" which allows you to re-time an audio track with a real accuracy of 0.0001 seconds.

Shooter
01-07-2012, 11:34 AM
1/2 frame out is pretty difficult to see and hear (ie. notice during playback).

Its 1/100 of a second.

:undecided

TheDingo
01-07-2012, 12:13 PM
1/2 frame out is pretty difficult to see and hear (ie. notice during playback)

I think it goes without saying that if you can find it you can fix it, otherwise it's not a problem. ( nobody will ever notice if you don't )