NEX5 or 5N or "other"?

[Shotgal]

I'm a pro photographer shooting Sony Alpha Full Frame, seeking advice for a HD videocamera suited to creating music videos - for a beginner (my 22 year old son) - with the long term thought that this would be a first, introductory step - and not building an entire system around it just yet (with an eye towards selling easily and moving into higher end stuff down the road).
Although my son wouldn't able to borrow my fast Zeiss lenses often (he's in another state) I've been seriously looking at the APS-C CMOS 1920x1080 60 Sony NEX-5 (or 5N) and have almost pulled the trigger but need to know for sure if there is something else out there that's a dedicated video camera that would be able to beat it in the sub $1K price range?
Not dying to buy the newest greatest thing unless it's vastly superior for similar money as the last models. I'd rather consider the last generation gear on blowout - or even used. Unsure about anything at all with MiniDV...especially used. Too many moving parts and heads to wear. VG10/VG 20 - GH1/GH2...I'm getting a bit lost in the vast amount of choices. I really don't think full DSLR is the way to go - and think of NEX more like a digital back.
Advantage to the dedicated video camera would be much better I/O, accessory ports and possibly built in high quality lens. The interchangeability of NEX lenses is nice, but opens a whole other can of worms/expense of adapters and lens fever.
Biggest concerns would really be stabilizing such a small camera - including zooms and focus moves, hand held or on a mount. Also syncing music in post (should be easy in FinalCutProX w/reference tracks on the video? - but NEX5 has no audio inputs only a mic).
Any suggestions, assists in choosing - or other considerations please let me know - thanks!

[AlexMacP]

Not likely at sub-1K. NEX 5N is amazing. I pulled the trigger on one this afternoon. I have a 5Dii ... but I wanted video at 60p 1080.
The VG10/20 are clearly inferior from an image point of view with an utter lack of customization of picture styles. The only advantage
would be on-board sound... but if he is doing music videos, he would want a dedicated sound recorder.... like a Zoom anyways. Any
kind of on-camera sound will suck for music videos.
The difference in price between the NEX 5 and NEX 5N is 50 bucks... you get alot more for your money with the 5N.

[lowlight]

Not sure if the budget for all equipment is under $1k, or just the camera, but your idea of the NEX-5N is sensible. However, you may have heard that this model (or at least many examples of it) is currently suffering from clicking when panning, or almost any significant movement, and this clicking is audible. Sony have a fix under warranty but I have not heard whether this adjustment is completely satisfactory or not. If you can get a 'non-clicking' NEXD-5N then a good choice, particularly for low light video.

However, there's another and cheaper option I have been considering for myself (for run & gun) which could be appropriate for your son. A Panasonic SD90 camcorder (TM90 in North America). It shoots 1080/60p at 28Mbps, microphone jack, 28mm wide angle (f1.8 at the wide end) and decent zoom, Hybrid O.I.S which is reputed to be good, and quite extensive manual adjustment available such as aperture, shutter speeds, colour, sharpness and audio . It's around $340, so you can then afford a decent on-camera mic (e.g, Rode Videomic Pro), spare high capacity batteries and several 32GB high speed SDHC cards. You may even be able to add a digital audio recorder such as a Zoom and still be under the $1000 mark for the whole lot. The sensor is only 1/4'' so a lot smaller than the one in the NEX-5N, and this will have a bearing on low light video. Nevertheless, the sensor is not crammed with pixels (only 3.32 megapixels which is enough for full HD) so the online tests I have seen have not been that bad in poor light (it that's an issue), but it couldn't beat a NEX-5n in this respect. It would be easy to assume the low price of the TM90 must mean the video it produces is nothing special, but I have seen some very nice footage from this little camcorder. I suggest you check out online reviews such as camcorderinfo and cameralabs. Hope this helps

[Samuel H]

I'd say definitely 5N: right now, it seems to be one of the best 3 cameras below $3K, the other 2 being the 5D2 (for its huge, beautiful sensor) and the GH2 (for its clean footage, specially with the hack)

[xenogears]

I´m using the 5n for a music video clip, already done 4 tv spot with it, the only complaints is a little overheating, and something i would like Sony improve is the HDMI live view, is a kind of lowres before you press record so is not to useful for focus pulling, and when you do there is a luminance change when you hit the record mode, another annoying thing is the display info never take off, so external recording is a no no.

But the image is really good, the high iso low noise is great.

If you are not so confident with the Nex5n there´s another option the Alpha A65 at 900$ with out lens.

[Shotgal]

Not likely at sub-1K. NEX 5N is amazing. I pulled the trigger on one this afternoon. I have a 5Dii ... but I wanted video at 60p 1080.
The VG10/20 are clearly inferior from an image point of view with an utter lack of customization of picture styles. The only advantage
would be on-board sound... but if he is doing music videos, he would want a dedicated sound recorder.... like a Zoom anyways. Any
kind of on-camera sound will suck for music videos.
The difference in price between the NEX 5 and NEX 5N is 50 bucks... you get alot more for your money with the 5N.

Hmmm, and I was just starting to lean towards the NEX-VG10. I guess the question then becomes - how much difference in video IQ is there really? the VG10 has so many things going for it as far as a real video camera - accessible controls, superior I/O...

For almost all music video production, audio would be synced later (lip sync), although the recording of audio on site live is a real possibility - so if possible it's better to get it down in camera than have to sync it in post.

As far as price - I wish it were only $50 difference. (both with kit lens) NEX-5 are $445 on Ebay right now - but one cannot touch a NEX-5N for much less than the list price of $699.

The 5N clicking issue is a bit scary. I've read a bit about it -and some are saying the "fix" doesn't completely fix it yet.

Thanks to all for the replies - very helpful.

[Samuel H]

eoshd (not my favorite site, but useful sometimes) had some hands-on with 5N and VG-20 and concluded very harshly against the VG-20: http://www.eoshd.com/content/3898/sony-nex-5n-versus-fs100-and-nex-vg20-hands-on-comparison - also, you may be comparing the NEX-5 without lens (or with the not-really very good 16mm lens) agains the NEX-5N with 18-55 lens; the 5N body only is $599: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005IHAIMA/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_til?tag=similaar-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=B005IHAIMA&adid=0CWCDH5JDSHGSVVG0JPE&&ref-refURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.similaar.com%2F

[Shotgal]

Thanks for the link NB - very interesting indeed - wow! On price - nope I priced them both as kits - the $449 NEX-5 vs $699 NEX-5N - including lenses (hoping to stay way from the 16mm kit however as that's not nearly as useful as an 18-55 even though it's a faster lens.)

[markr041]

"Sony have a fix under warranty but I have not heard whether this adjustment is completely satisfactory or not." It is completelysatisfactory. No one I have seen on any forum I have seen has complained about the fix. It is free and relatively fast (within a week abckand forth). I have personally had the fix done. No clicking.

[Shotgal]

Despite spotting a new VG10 for $1300 - The NEX-5N came on sale for $599 with the 18-55mm shipped - I couldn't resist. Ordered and will ship it in for the clicking service once it arrives. This will be plenty of time to get back for a holiday gift.

He will still need stuff like lighting and maybe a jib to do cool moves, but this should get him started and offer a lot of flexibility. If it's not a fit - sell it in 6 months at maybe $100 loss? That's a pretty cheap rental! Or - he could end up loving it and this being the first of more than one camera too!

In the end, the technique, tech and post skills make or break the success of the shooting. But it's a good kit for him I think - no hacks and uncomplicated/fast to learn.

I'll try to post some sample video when I get it and run tests.

[lowlight]

"Sony have a fix under warranty but I have not heard whether this adjustment is completely satisfactory or not." It is completelysatisfactory. No one I have seen on any forum I have seen has complained about the fix. It is free and relatively fast (within a week abckand forth). I have personally had the fix done. No clicking.

Thanks for confirming that. That certainly puts it back on my list as a possible camera for me.

[paulcurtis]

The 5N is miles ahead of the VG10 in terms of video quality. For starters the crop factor is the same as it is for stills. On the VG10 it only uses a small part of the sensor (x1.8 crop). The VG20 is probably identical to the 5N though

The video quality of the 5N is really quite remarkable, the aliasing and moire much reduced compared to the 5 or the canon dSLRs.

However the HDMI out is overlaid with stupid graphics meaning that decent uncompressed capture is not possible. Please petition sony to change this in the next firmware update, it would be so simple to do. I've emailed them and i urge anyone else interested to do the same. The form factor of the 5N makes it a very useful camera.

cheers
Paul

[Shotgal]

Whats the format of the HDMI out? Anything you select - or are there limitations?

Yes, getting the on screen menu/graphics to turn OFF should be an option in cam...it could even "time out" and turn itself off.
I've read that the VG20 does not put menus/graphics on the direct output. Nor do some lower model video cams...

Question - if you plug in the HDMI out - does the on camera display still stay on? (Add a client/producers monitor).

[Taky]

I bought NEX-5N too. Photos are amazing. I have some photos in my blog
http://lacoloronline.com/blog/?10182-Sample-Photos-of-Sony-NEX-5N

(http://lacoloronline.com/blog/?10182-Sample-Photos-of-Sony-NEX-5N)Video is great too. I use it for casual party stuff (not for weddings). I set ISO to auto and the result is amazing indoor. Can't set ISO auto with Canon T3i.

There is also the clicking sound issue reported by many for NEX-5n video mode.

[Shotgal]

I took it for a test spin before sending it in for the upgrade -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktB7SddAbPk&feature=youtu.be&hd=1

At first I had some reservations about the size and managing to hold it still hand held - this was shot on a mount and no problems.
My first video of anything, ever - so not bad for a test anyway...

This is going to be a powerful tool when used well. A lot of fun too!

[ROCKMORE]

Not likely at sub-1K. NEX 5N is amazing. I pulled the trigger on one this afternoon. I have a 5Dii ... but I wanted video at 60p 1080.


I've been shooting with a canon 60D for a year and still waiting for the next 5D. I need a backup camera and have a set of ARRI Zeiss / Schneider Standard mount lenses. Zeiss 16,135, Schneider 25,50,75 all nice. It would be nice to put them back to work. How does the Sony Nex-5N sensor stack up against the Canon 60D and 5D. I shoot everything at 1080p 25fps Pal with Cinestyle profile.