Sony Nex VG-20 Lacks advertised features

[dop16mm]

There is a thread over on dvinfo discussing one of the first, if on the first cameras to ship in US. Of clear concern is the lack of picture profiles and white balance setting in the video menus. Features available to the 5n, and listed in all online spec sheets from SonyStyle on down to dealer pages.

The owner of said camera has been on line with support, and it appears that said features were never meant to be there, obvious crippling to protect the fs100. Another Sony Fail?

I was really looking forward to this camera, a true camcorder feature set at attainable price point. I don't need or want to move up to FS100 for what I do.

For me it is probably a non-issue as I never use custom profiles, and as long as I have standard daylight, tungsten and push white-balance, with control of aperture. shutter speed, and gain I'm fine. Others feel it is a deal breaker, especially when available at a much cheaper price point with the 5n.

The big issue I think is the whole truth in advertising issue. This camera has been marketed with features that are not present, can sony be forced to add the firmware or is the consumers only choice to return or not buy in the first place.

All in it may seem overprice compared to the 5n, but the only step higher is more than double the price. Maybe it will force a price drop, there is no justification for a starting price higher than the vg-10 was for a replacement model.

Vitally seems quite interested, hopefully there will be a hack, there is no reason why the high iso's on the still side are not available to video, accept again to protect the fs100.

[jdv]

"The big issue I think is the whole truth in advertising issue. This camera has been marketed with features that are not present, can sony be forced to add the firmware or is the consumers only choice to return or not buy in the first place."

Exactly. Even if I don't need the profiles, jeez, it's sure be nice to mess around with them, esp as they are - at this very minute - still being sold as being on the camera.

And your point about the FS100 is one I've been making - totally different products aimed at total different users. Anyone at Sony who thinks that a producer will hire a guy with a VG20 (vs an FS100) needs his head examined.

Seriously makes me question buying any Sony product - camera, TV, whatever - if this is how they treat their customer base.

PS - I posted another thread on this site with a bit more detail:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?266753-Buyer-beware-Sony-VG20-crippled

[Nektonic]

Aww man. What a bummer.

I popped over to DVinfo and saw the video by the guy who initiated this whole thing by posting the VG20 menu options overview on Youtube.

This seriously does suck though. I was kinda hoping this little camera turned out to be a nice bang for the buck. Compared to the GH2 though (which was just hacked again to allow for insane low light shooting), it just seems to pale in comparison on a features for the price comparison. Then throw in the NEX 5N and it just seems silly to me at this point to shell out the extra cash for an NEX VG20. I mean, for the same price, one could buy a GH2 and an NEX 5N, or for a little more two GH2's (one with the 14-140 kit lens, and another with the 14-42 kit lens).

I also don't get what they are thinking in terms of crippling the VG20 to allow the FS100 to shine some more. It is not like the low light capabilities on the VG20 were going to beat the FS100, nor would the form factor (modular FS100 vs. the standard video camera body style of the VG20) be that competitive against those who want what something like the FS100 or similar cameras will offer. And someone might find the VG20 a good B-cam for the FS100, but why would they shell out the cash if they can basically get the same image from the VG20 in an NEX 5N for so much cheaper. Then add to all that, the fact that someone who can't afford the FS100, that person wasn't going to magically snap their fingers and make an extra $3,000 appear out of thin air so that they could buy an FS100. If anything, they might have driven some to decide to just hold onto their money and buy something cheaper to tide them over for awhile (5N or GH2), or would push more people towards Panasonic's slightly cheaper AF100 (especially a good now with that lens offer).

The VG20 would have snuck in and grabbed a spot in the market that is kinda neglected now in terms of 35mm / Super 35mm sensor HD video cameras with a non DSLR form factor. Right now, the best options strictly for video on the low end are the NEX 5N and the GH2 in the $700-1,400 price range. Then there is this huge market gap, at least until maybe a Canon 5DmkIII is announced, between $1,500 and $3,500. Now if the VG20 truly turns out to be as low featured as it seems to currently be (maybe a firmware upgrade will help things out?), then Sony just left Panasonic and Canon a massive opening to throw out some more HD DSLR's and 35mm sensor HD video cameras into that price gap to grab the customers who didn't or can't shell out approx. $5,000 for an AF100 or FS100.

Sony's "this is a consumer cam" excuse with the VG20 is kinda bullcraptastical in my opinion. The mass majority of people clamoring for the VG20 are the same people who use stuff like the GH2, 5DmkII, 7D, AF100, or FS100 (again, the notion of the VG20 as a possible B-cam option for an FS100 can't be ignored) for things like film making, events, music videos, commercial work, and maybe documentaries. To lump it in with (the admittedly great bang for the buck) NEX 5N and non-pro line is foolish. Most average consumers will just save the money and buy an NEX 5N instead. After all, it does pretty much fit in your pocket. That seems much more consumer friendly to me.

Now, I'll certainly follow the VG20 over the next few weeks to see if things improve (again, maybe a firmware update from Sony) or if the first few cams off the assembly line weren't programmed with all the proper software. One thing I noticed in a test video from Youtube was that the sound from the on camera mic was really great and really focused. Plus there is the whole 5.1 mic option they have built in, which I could see being an interesting possibility for some audio for event work (with some sort of separate digital audio recorder for backup). Still though, this is seemingly a bad omen for the VG20. I was really looking forward to this camera.

[dop16mm]

I can accept crippling the high gain performace to roughly 3200, as that is the fs100's main claim to fame at this point, but not to include styles and performance controls that are present in the 5n seems absolutely ridiculous to me. Since when do higher end products have less features.

Someone at Sony needs to be fired over this, and not the Guy who wrote the spec sheets, as they are the same everywhere.

I probably would have bought the vg20 and the 5n. Now they may not get any of my money.

I'm not sure what to think of this whole shebang. I'd really hoped that the scarlet and canon announcements would have been a bit closer the the fs100 pricepoint.

The FS100 is absolutely gorgeous, but there is no way I could swing two packages, and this move is just souring my mood towards sony in general.

[jdv]

Aww man. What a bummer.

Then add to all that, the fact that someone who can't afford the FS100, that person wasn't going to magically snap their fingers and make an extra $3,000 appear out of thin air so that they could buy an FS100. If anything, they might have driven some to decide to just hold onto their money and buy something cheaper to tide them over for awhile (5N or GH2), or would push more people towards Panasonic's slightly cheaper AF100 (especially a good now with that lens offer).

The VG20 would have snuck in and grabbed a spot in the market that is kinda neglected now in terms of 35mm / Super 35mm sensor HD video cameras with a non DSLR form factor. Right now, the best options strictly for video on the low end are the NEX 5N and the GH2 in the $700-1,400 price range. Then there is this huge market gap, at least until maybe a Canon 5DmkIII is announced, between $1,500 and $3,500. Now if the VG20 truly turns out to be as low featured as it seems to currently be (maybe a firmware upgrade will help things out?), then Sony just left Panasonic and Canon a massive opening to throw out some more HD DSLR's and 35mm sensor HD video cameras into that price gap to grab the customers who didn't or can't shell out approx. $5,000 for an AF100 or FS100.

Now, I'll certainly follow the VG20 over the next few weeks to see if things improve (again, maybe a firmware update from Sony) or if the first few cams off the assembly line weren't programmed with all the proper software. Still though, this is seemingly a bad omen for the VG20. I was really looking forward to this camera.

Great post. What the knuckle heads at Sony seemed to have totally not grasped is that the two cameras simply aren't aimed at the same buyers. Sure a few pros might pick it up, ans sure a few weekend guys might go nuts and buy a FS100, but by in large, they're simply different cameras.

Now if Sony hadn't crippled the camera and put even on XLR mic input, then I agree- they might have had the next indie film maker hit. As it is, it's a falsely advertised camera that's had virtually ever pro feature disabled.

And yup, I'll be waiting 'til Canon finally brings out the MarkIII. It really is too bad, the 20 could have been a cool little camera.

[AlexMacP]

Most damning is the effort being waged to throw this issue under the rug. There was a topic on Vimeo regarding the issue of missing
features. Some posts from VG20 owners were deleted and the thread was locked.
I posted a thread commenting on the censorship of the forum and my thread was deleted an hour later.

[jdv]

Saw that too - pretty sure H. Paul Moon works for Sony.... meaning, it's yet another unfriendly move by Sony to it's would be customers.

For what it's worth, Chris (the original poster at DVinfo) has started a different VG20 thread on vimeo:
http://vimeo.com/groups/115787/forums

That'll be the one I visit from now on...