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powervideo
11-08-2011, 04:22 PM
The courier just delivered my brand new Samurai.
43017

David Saraceno
11-08-2011, 04:22 PM
Let us know how the testing goes, particular with any progressive captures.

powervideo
11-08-2011, 04:34 PM
I'll test it on my F3. Only problem is my ProLock isn't arriving until the morning and I've sold my MTF. Edit!! Fedex just arrived at the door with it.

The kit is very well presented and the unit is nicely finished in black alumnium. It feels a lot smaller than the PIX240. I have one of the WD recommended spinners so i will give a whirl tonight with it.

powervideo
11-08-2011, 08:03 PM
Just shot some quick tests. The main difference between the internal codec and the Samurai is with camera movement. I've just been mucking around in the office with the camera but the attached images (blown up to 600%) show the difference in noise levels. The Samurai recording also has a 3-frame delay to the internal recording, but I don't see this is too much of a problem unless you had to reconform to the internal clips.

The menu is very simple and easy to use. The recording triggers via HD-SDI so all good there. I've been moving the unit around by hand as the mounting screws don't seem to be regulation 1/4" imperial. But I'm following that up with Atomos. I didn't get any dropped frames or recording issues with the WD 500 HDD I'm using. And I was really moving it around forgetting about the spinning hard drive.

So far I very impressed. I'll do some real world testing tomorrow.

EX Codec
43027

Samurai ProResHQ
43028

EX Codec
43029

Samurai ProResHQ
43030

Wide Reference
43031

klfi
11-08-2011, 10:06 PM
hi,
interesting.
Did you or will you test records with F3 - slog mode 10 bit 4-2-2. See my last post PIX240 - users.
thanks, klfi

powervideo
11-08-2011, 10:18 PM
hi,
interesting.
Did you or will you test records with F3 - slog mode 10 bit 4-2-2. See my last post PIX240 - users.
thanks, klfi

Yes hopefully S-log tests this weekend.

diegocervo
11-08-2011, 11:51 PM
Peter,
can I ask you how the monitor is?
I own a ninja for my af100 but I'm considering the samurai if the display is good enough for focusing. Does it come out with focus assist tools?
Thanks a lot,
Diego

powervideo
11-09-2011, 12:12 AM
it's not bad at all, but I've only had it a few hours and haven't tested it outside. The colours seem okay. It does have a slightly milky look due to the touch screen technology, but I would be happy to use it for basic colour monitoring. It's nowhere near as sharp as my TV Logic 5.6" but it's okay for what it is. I wasn't expecting more than it is. I haven't found any focus assist tools in the menu.

diegocervo
11-09-2011, 12:34 AM
thank you Peter!
I guess that focus assist tools will come with later firmware updates.

Osslund
11-09-2011, 12:35 AM
Which store did you get it from?

powervideo
11-09-2011, 01:04 AM
Which store did you get it from?

http://www.new-media.com.au/

Osslund
11-09-2011, 01:13 AM
Congratulations! It seams Aus is the first release country. It can't be to far away in Europe I hope...

powervideo
11-09-2011, 01:20 AM
I do have one "teeny" problem. The mounting threads on the base and top of the Samurai appear to be either faulty or metric and won't accept the 1/4" screws of any of my Noga or Manfrotto arms. Basically i can't mount it on the camera at the moment. I am awaiting a reply from Atomos and am sure this can be fixed. The build quality and kit capability is very impressive.

Osslund
11-09-2011, 01:37 AM
On the Atomos website: "The Samurai can be mounted almost anywhere using it's top and bottom " tripod screw thread mounting points."

Referring to 1/4" tripod screw it gotta fit any standard tripod screw but I hope this is not a manufacture error choosing the wrong mount.

powervideo
11-09-2011, 04:13 AM
I've just tested my two Noga arms (one generic/one Panasonic) on every 1/4" mounting device I own and the only device that the arms won't screw in to is the Samurai. It's such a great unit, but I hope this can be resolved quickly.

Tata Steva
11-09-2011, 04:23 AM
Can you please list all cables included with the kit?

powervideo
11-09-2011, 04:31 AM
I got;

2 x short mini-BNC to standard BNC (male) leads (nice quality thin and flexible ones)
1 x heavy duty USB cable
1 x USB power cable
1 x heavy duty Firewire 800 cable

Side-note: I just tried a Zacuto ZicroMount and it also will not screw into either of the "1/4"-inch mount points. :cry:

nateweaver
11-09-2011, 05:53 AM
I'd take a look and see if the threads were not clean cut in the inserts.

It's not entirely uncommon in metal working to have threads that need to be "chased" with a tap or bolt to remove cut metal leftovers from the original thread cutting.

In other words, if the threads LOOK the right size to the eye, slowly thread a 1/4-20 to the stopping point (assuming it can be even started), back it off, and then thread it some more (even if there's resistance), back it off, and repeat. If it's badly cut threads, this method will 'chase' them.

(apologies if this is just common sense in your experience and you're saying the threads aren't even close)

Sparky874
11-09-2011, 06:03 AM
The recording triggers via HD-SDI so all good there.

This is great news, I didn't realise the Samurai could be triggered by the camera's record button. Can I just double check this is the case?

Viddovation
11-09-2011, 06:08 AM
This is great news, I didn't realise the Samurai could be triggered by the camera's record button. Can I just double check this is the case?

And can you clarify - is it accepting the PMW-F3 record flag, or does it require you to use REC RUN timecode?

powervideo
11-09-2011, 12:45 PM
This is great news, I didn't realise the Samurai could be triggered by the camera's record button. Can I just double check this is the case?

Yes this works perfectly. It took a little time to find a tiny touch-screen button to activate it but it works. You also have to select HD-SDI as your time-code source from a menu that includes free-run, record-run, etc. It slaves great. I'm using a Western Digital 500gb Black Cavier drive. One thing to remember when "ejecting" the drive caddy (it's more pulling out), is to press the caddy release button on the opposite side of the caddy. Took me ages to find that.

powervideo
11-09-2011, 12:46 PM
And can you clarify - is it accepting the PMW-F3 record flag, or does it require you to use REC RUN timecode?

I'll have to test that. Do mean if the Samurai starts recording when you play back EX material in the F3 while connected to the Samurai? Like the Nano does.

powervideo
11-09-2011, 12:49 PM
I'd take a look and see if the threads were not clean cut in the inserts.

It's not entirely uncommon in metal working to have threads that need to be "chased" with a tap or bolt to remove cut metal leftovers from the original thread cutting.

In other words, if the threads LOOK the right size to the eye, slowly thread a 1/4-20 to the stopping point (assuming it can be even started), back it off, and then thread it some more (even if there's resistance), back it off, and repeat. If it's badly cut threads, this method will 'chase' them.

(apologies if this is just common sense in your experience and you're saying the threads aren't even close)

Thanks Nate, I'll give it a try, but I think the thread is too different. A friend is going to try the unit over the weekend (with S-log) and he will be better at trying that than me. I am concerned though that it has this issue straight out of the box. Cheers, Peter

Lenilenapi
11-09-2011, 01:15 PM
Do you have a choice re starting from the Samurai or auto run on timecode?
My concern was I had a bunch of false start & stops recently with a keypro armed from TC over SDI.

Viddovation
11-09-2011, 01:25 PM
I'll have to test that. Do mean if the Samurai starts recording when you play back EX material in the F3 while connected to the Samurai? Like the Nano does.

There's an option in the PMW-F3 menus to send out a record trigger flag over SDI. It's completely different than the REC RUN method. The REC RUN method doesn't require the camera to do anything special, it just requires an external recorder that notices when timecode starts and stops.

The trigger method in theory is better, but the way Sony implemented it isn't supported by any of the current recorders that i'm aware of.

pix2pixels
11-11-2011, 09:38 PM
Congratulations! It seams Aus is the first release country. It can't be to far away in Europe I hope...
The company is based in Melbourne, Australia.

eddavid
11-12-2011, 04:06 PM
is it power efficient as they claim? also have you tried recording to dnxhd 220x 10 bit? any issues with the image quality?

powervideo
11-13-2011, 02:56 AM
is it power efficient as they claim? also have you tried recording to dnxhd 220x 10 bit? any issues with the image quality?

It doesn't do DNX. I believe that is coming later. It seems very power efficient with the supplied batteries. They don't add much bulk to the unit.

tobyheslop
11-14-2011, 05:12 PM
Hey Peter,

Howd you go with the 1/4 thread on the samurai? Are they faulty or fixed? Did Atomos reply?

powervideo
11-14-2011, 06:36 PM
Only reply from Atomos was "looking into it" or similar last week. Dealer reply was that some units have the metric threads but not all, and the metric Samurais will be replaced by Atomos (I don't know when). In the meantime, a DOP friend is testing the unit with S-log and is doing a green screen shoot with it tomorrow. He has modified a Noga arm for the time being.

Matttrebor
11-15-2011, 04:22 AM
Did any european get his unit ?

Sparky874
11-15-2011, 09:09 AM
Did any european get his unit ?

Mine is being delivered tomorrow morning!

Sparky874
11-16-2011, 02:59 AM
Received my Samuarai this morning (bought from Production Gear in London, they always offer a great service - just ask for Simon). Which setting would you suggest I use (I don't have S-log) - ProRes 422 - PreRes LT - PreRes HQ? Do you think ProRes 422 would be the best balance between quality and storage? Can I confirm the 422 option would be 10bit? Thanks in advance, Sparky

Sparky874
11-16-2011, 03:32 AM
Received my Samuarai this morning (bought from Production Gear in London, they always offer a great service - just ask for Simon). Which setting would you suggest I use (I don't have S-log) - ProRes 422 - PreRes LT - PreRes HQ? Do you think ProRes 422 would be the best balance between quality and storage? Can I confirm the 422 option would be 10bit? Thanks in advance, Sparky

sorry, I just read this thread..

Tata Steva
11-16-2011, 04:14 AM
Received my Samuarai this morning (bought from Production Gear in London, they always offer a great service - just ask for Simon). Which setting would you suggest I use (I don't have S-log) - ProRes 422 - PreRes LT - PreRes HQ? Do you think ProRes 422 would be the best balance between quality and storage? Can I confirm the 422 option would be 10bit? Thanks in advance, Sparky

Sparky:
Any problems with your 1/4 screw?

Sparky874
11-16-2011, 08:16 AM
Sparky:
Any problems with your 1/4 screw?

Nope, just tried it - using a Nogaarm, but it doesn't seem to 'screw' into the hole, a couple of turns - but feels secure enough.

powervideo
11-16-2011, 12:07 PM
Nope, just tried it - using a Nogaarm, but it doesn't seem to 'screw' into the hole, a couple of turns - but feels secure enough. You may have an M6 unit (6mm metric).

tobyheslop
11-17-2011, 03:53 PM
Just received my Samurai unit,

Arm screws into the mount only about 2mm then becomes tight and starts to thread out the mount.

I think I have the same issue, M6 threaded

powervideo
11-17-2011, 04:10 PM
Contact your sales guy. I had my M6 thread replaced and the unit flashed to new firmware yesterday at the Melbourne service centre. Not sure what is changed in the new firmware, but the 50i reset issue is fixed. When the Samurai was recording in 1080 25P mode, then a clip was played back, it defaulted to 50i when recording started again. This is fixed. I think Atomos are really on top of getting the unit running smooth with regular firmware updates. All these devices have gone through the same growing pains, but the M6 thread one was a bit unfortunate.

powervideo
11-17-2011, 04:12 PM
Just received my Samurai unit,

Arm screws into the mount only about 2mm then becomes tight and starts to thread out the mount.

I think I have the same issue, M6 threaded


If you have a Manfrotto quick release plate with a removable 1/4" screw, get a 6mm screw from a hardware shop and use this temporarily.

tobyheslop
11-17-2011, 05:31 PM
It's a pitty Atomos is not testing the units for the M6 problem before shipping them to suppliers who are then shipping around the country.

Is it my problem to purchase an item from Melb, have it shipped to Sydney, Then have to ship it back to Atomos in Melb the same day?

powervideo
11-17-2011, 05:47 PM
I think if you bought one now, you would be shipped a correct unit. AFAIK, Geoff Johnson at New-media has them in stock. http://www.new-media.com.au 1300 304 607

lasikdenver
11-19-2011, 09:28 AM
All Samurai's coming to the US, have the correct standard mount inside. This is from Matthew Stoneking Atomos Business Development Manager for the Americas. He also wrote that they should be shipping currently to the USA and be available very soon.

Sparky874
11-20-2011, 02:24 PM
Just shooting with my new Samurai on my F3 at Pro Res 422 setting, at the ATP tennis finals today in London. I have just been looking back through footage and have to say I am blown away by the quality of the images. I don't have S-LOG, but recording to an external recorder just transforms the camera into a new beast. I am used to high quality pictures from my PDW-700 but I have been blown away from the footage shot today. I am delighted to say my Nikon 80-200mm F2.8, and Tokina 11-16, performed really well alongside my CP.2's (50mm and 85mm) - I think I really have all the ranges covered here. I'll try to upload a little footage, but can't show any tennis sadly, may just post some O2 exteriors, although it was a very damp and misty day, they still looked great! For all the extra hassle carry around rails, colour VF, etc, etc - the images pay you back big time. Really happy with F3 today...that's it..Sparky

powervideo
11-20-2011, 03:12 PM
Just shooting with my new Samurai on my F3 at Pro Res 422 setting, at the ATP tennis finals today in London. I have just been looking back through footage and have to say I am blown away by the quality of the images. I don't have S-LOG, but recording to an external recorder just transforms the camera into a new beast. I am used to high quality pictures from my PDW-700 but I have been blown away from the footage shot today. I am delighted to say my Nikon 80-200mm F2.8, and Tokina 11-16, performed really well alongside my CP.2's (50mm and 85mm) - I think I really have all the ranges covered here. I'll try to upload a little footage, but can't show any tennis sadly, may just post some O2 exteriors, although it was a very damp and misty day, they still looked great! For all the extra hassle carry around rails, colour VF, etc, etc - the images pay you back big time. Really happy with F3 today...that's it..Sparky

Wouldn't mind seeing a picture of your rig with the Samurai. I'm still figuring out how to mount it.

Vultch
11-20-2011, 03:23 PM
Whats the focus and exposure assist functions like

Tata Steva
11-20-2011, 03:53 PM
Just shooting with my new Samurai on my F3 at Pro Res 422 setting, at the ATP tennis finals today in London. I have just been looking back through footage and have to say I am blown away by the quality of the images. I don't have S-LOG, but recording to an external recorder just transforms the camera into a new beast. I am used to high quality pictures from my PDW-700 but I have been blown away from the footage shot today. I am delighted to say my Nikon 80-200mm F2.8, and Tokina 11-16, performed really well alongside my CP.2's (50mm and 85mm) - I think I really have all the ranges covered here. I'll try to upload a little footage, but can't show any tennis sadly, may just post some O2 exteriors, although it was a very damp and misty day, they still looked great! For all the extra hassle carry around rails, colour VF, etc, etc - the images pay you back big time. Really happy with F3 today...that's it..Sparky


You know the first rule of Internet forums?
If no pictures, it did not happend!...

powervideo
11-20-2011, 05:28 PM
Whats the focus and exposure assist functions like

None on both of those. Possibly coming later in a firmware update. Just a note to those interested in using the Samurai as a field reference monitor. Don't expect too much from the touch-screen technology used in the screen design. I still use my TV Logic 056 for focus and reference even with the Samurai.

Sparky874
11-21-2011, 05:06 AM
You know the first rule of Internet forums?
If no pictures, it did not happend!...



http://vimeo.com/32442224

I'll upload pictures on Samurai on F3 rig shortly...:happy:

powervideo
11-21-2011, 12:50 PM
Looks very clean, but hard to tell on the small video. like me you probably notice the reduction in noise in moving detailed parts of images where the XDCAM codec fall downs a bit. It's less noticible in static scenes. But I'm looking forward to the extra quality in post. Very nice compositioning and nice use of the ultra wide. Was it a Tokina 11-16?

Sparky874
11-21-2011, 01:02 PM
Looks very clean, but hard to tell on the small video. like me you probably notice the reduction in noise in moving detailed parts of images where the XDCAM codec fall downs a bit. It's less noticible in static scenes. But I'm looking forward to the extra quality in post. Very nice compositioning and nice use of the ultra wide. Was it a Tokina 11-16?

Yes all with the Tokina thanks. I have an important question you may be able to help with. I have just looked at a batch of footage taken off the Samurai and none of the shots, except strangely a couple have any audio (the few that do have some audio on channels three and four) - none of the clips have anything on 1 and 2. But there is audio on tracks one and two on the internal SxS cards. I can get away with this as I didn't do any interviews etc, and still have all the original audio on internal cards -and most of the audio from this shoot is just to bubble under a VO and sound track - BUT I really need to know it didn't record tracks one and two on to the Samurai. I am connecting the Samurai to the HD SDI A port from the back of the camera. Any advice would be gratefully received! Thanks, Sparky

Sparky874
11-21-2011, 01:05 PM
I have also noticed that the few clips with some audio have '4 Channel audio' on the clips properties (with the audio being only on channels 3&4), but the ones without only have two channels. So the audio I was monitoring in the camera must have been laid down on channels three and four, and not one and two. However I wasn't aware that I pressed any buttons to change this setting?! Any ideas?!

powervideo
11-21-2011, 01:16 PM
You need to get the Samurai flashed to the latest firmware. Ask your supplier to email you the update. For some reason it isn't on the Atomos website yet. We had a similar problem with no audio. One thing to check is to see that the audio is not disabled. There is is a little red "R" button on the front panel (I haven't got the Samurai with me today) that controls whether the audio is enabled. Make sure it is selected. Even if it is disabled, the meters and foldback continue to be live even though no audio is being recorded. I think this should be fixed in a future firmware update as it is too easy to see the meters working and assume audio is being recorded.

But first, get that firmware update as a priority.

Sparky874
11-21-2011, 01:30 PM
You need to get the Samurai flashed to the latest firmware. Ask your supplier to email you the update. For some reason it isn't on the Atomos website yet. We had a similar problem with no audio. One thing to check is to see that the audio is not disabled. There is is a little red "R" button on the front panel (I haven't got the Samurai with me today) that controls whether the audio is enabled. Make sure it is selected. Even if it is disabled, the meters and foldback continue to be live even though no audio is being recorded. I think this should be fixed in a future firmware update as it is too easy to see the meters working and assume audio is being recorded.

But first, get that firmware update as a priority.

Thanks so much for getting back so quickly.
Using it again for a shoot Wednesday and need to get it sorted ASAP. I'm Looking at the Audio page of the Samurai now , there is a list of channels: 1/2 3/4 5/6 7/8 9/10 11/12 and finally a 1/2 again on the far right. Does the 1/2 channel icon on the far left have to have the R gfx selected so it is RED (NOT BLUE) for the channel to record? Also what is the other 1/2 refer to on the right on the monitor? Does this R need to be red too? I have attached the F3 to the Samurai now and I can see audio levels on channel 1&2, and nothing on 3&4. The strange thing is, the clip that did initially have some audio on it in the edit - the only clip of 200 with audio (!), it had audio on channels 3&4 and nothing on 1/2! I don't think I pressed anything by accident on the Samurai but I must have? Hope this makes some sense and thanks for your time helping out.

powervideo
11-21-2011, 02:49 PM
I'm not a big help at the moment as a DOP friend has my Samurai at the moment. Maybe the 3/4 audio you are getting is due to the audio mapping in the audio menu. The F3 only has two channel audio so you should just select 1 and 2. As for the 1/2 icons on the right, try selecting red and doing a quick test. Send me an email to info at php.com.au

Tata Steva
11-21-2011, 03:01 PM
You need to get the Samurai flashed to the latest firmware.

But first, get that firmware update as a priority.


What is the current firmware (code number)?
And can anybody confirm what firmware North American units will have once on sale?

powervideo
11-21-2011, 04:14 PM
What is the current firmware (code number)?
And can anybody confirm what firmware North American units will have once on sale?

I think the current firmware is 2.52

Sparky874
11-22-2011, 12:18 PM
I'm not a big help at the moment as a DOP friend has my Samurai at the moment. Maybe the 3/4 audio you are getting is due to the audio mapping in the audio menu. The F3 only has two channel audio so you should just select 1 and 2. As for the 1/2 icons on the right, try selecting red and doing a quick test. Send me an email to info at php.com.au

Hi Peter, as you suggested I selected 1 and 2 (switching the light red on) on the audio menu for channels one and two, and selected the 1/2 one on the right hand side for good measure and it seems to work. I going to use my headphones playing back clips just to check in the future. Also downloaded the new firmware, although not sure what features have been updated - thanks for sending me the link. Sparky

Osslund
11-24-2011, 02:01 AM
Do the Samurai units thats out with shooters have the correct imperial 1/4 mount? Just got an email from my supplier telling me there's a delay due to this.

Duke M.
11-24-2011, 05:33 AM
I think the current firmware is 2.52

Kind of funny that the firmware is v2.52 on a product that just came out. But I am easily amused.

Sparky874
11-24-2011, 06:23 AM
Wouldn't mind seeing a picture of your rig with the Samurai. I'm still figuring out how to mount it.

4382543826

Here we go. Samurai fixed onto the back on the F3 with a NogaArm- and here's the clever bit, I have attached some velcro to the bottom on the Samurai, and attached some to the top of my V-Lock batteries - so my Samurai effectively 'rests' on the top of them - resulting in them not sliding at all, sitting nice and snugly. Sparky.

Andrew Stone
11-24-2011, 07:03 AM
Samurai fixed onto the back on the F3 with a NogaArm... Sparky.

Curious about your the shoulder rest part of your rig. What is it and where can you get them?

Sparky874
11-24-2011, 07:48 AM
Hi Andrew, it's a Movietube rig. Here is a link to it: http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/index.php?t=product/kinomatik_movietube_cr
It come's with front handles for shoulder mount work - which sit really comfortably - a handle on top to carry it around, which I have moved, and a section to attach a VF, which I have also removed as I am using my TVLOGIC solely as the VF. Don't use F3's VF or LCD at all. It is expensive but really, really well made. A also have a multiple D-TAP adaptor on the back to power monitor, led light etc. Sparky

Tata Steva
11-24-2011, 08:43 AM
Is there another mounting hole on the bottom of Samurai? Sparky?

Sparky874
11-24-2011, 08:53 AM
yes there is.

Tata Steva
11-24-2011, 09:00 AM
yes there is.

Thanks!

Another one: is there an AC plug for power anywhere? And is there anything on the right side of the box (opposite the side with HD slot and SDI connections)?

Sparky874
11-24-2011, 09:08 AM
Nope, on the other side is just the release switch for the hard disc, and a power button. You can't power it through AC power, but the two batteries that come with it will run for an entire day.

Tata Steva
11-24-2011, 10:52 AM
Nope, on the other side is just the release switch for the hard disc, and a power button. You can't power it through AC power, but the two batteries that come with it will run for an entire day.

Oh well, you can't have it all...
Now, I read in brochure that there is something called dummy dtap adapter. Did it come in the kit or you have to order it? I see BH has it listed on the web with no photo...

Sparky874
11-24-2011, 11:10 AM
don't know anything about that! Can's see how it/ where it would connect either - but it would be very handy..

Tata Steva
11-24-2011, 11:21 AM
don't know anything about that! Can's see how it/ where it would connect either - but it would be very handy..
I suspect it's a dummy battery with dtap cable hanging out to connect to outside battery power (like swit battery I am using). I can not find anything about it on atomos (poor and unimaginative) web page. I guess, this is not priority for them at this moment...

powervideo
11-24-2011, 02:20 PM
Do the Samurai units thats out with shooters have the correct imperial 1/4 mount? Just got an email from my supplier telling me there's a delay due to this.

I had to get mine converted/fixed by the Atomos service agent.

lasikdenver
11-24-2011, 03:07 PM
My Samurai is coming tomorrow morning from B&H and I believe is one of the first delivered in the USA. I must say that I was surprised after a 6 month "pre-order" to see it also listed as in stock on the B&H website. I think that I will try to get it working with the current F3 firmware and worry about upgrading that later, since I do not have S-LOG anyway. I hope it comes with a proper mount and that I do not need to upgrade the firmware on the unit immediately.

Andrew Stone
11-24-2011, 08:39 PM
Does anyone know if they manufacturer has provided a way to power the unit via 12 volt battery systems like Anton Bauer and V-lock batts? SmallHD to my delight provided a 12 volt jack between the two battery mounts on the rear of their DP4 EVF. Makes for a much more elegant and less complicated setup and maintenance during a long shoot.

powervideo
11-24-2011, 10:09 PM
Does anyone know if they manufacturer has provided a way to power the unit via 12 volt battery systems like Anton Bauer and V-lock batts? SmallHD to my delight provided a 12 volt jack between the two battery mounts on the rear of their DP4 EVF. Makes for a much more elegant and less complicated setup and maintenance during a long shoot.

Once you register the Samurai, Atomos will send you a D-tap cable to power from V-mounts and AB's. I haven't got mine yet, but I've only had it for two weeks. I did a commercial yesterday and it worked great, fired every time, and I could even do a quick Premiere ProRes422 edit on my MacBook directly on the Atomos docking station.

Andrew Stone
11-24-2011, 10:49 PM
Thanks for that Peter, very good to know. One more question... Can you or someone tell me how much the Samurai weighs? I'm interested in the weight without batteries attached but many would be interested with the weight including batteries.

Tata Steva
11-25-2011, 04:45 AM
I am still on the fence about what recorder to get. It is between Samurai and PIX 240. I know that there are significant price difference between 2. It is almost double by the time you complete the set with PIX 240 (with more features, more weight,...). I would like some input from other who "decided" on Samurai, why they went with it over PIX...
Another thing is I have seen PIX at the local rental place, mounted on camera (huge and heavy), where Samurai is still MIA here in Toronto (expected any day at Vistek), and I really like to "feel" my gear before dropping $$...

nsoltz
11-25-2011, 07:52 AM
Steven

I will answer your questions differently detailing why I bought the Pix240 over the Samurai.

I did not like the construction of the Ninja. It just felt too lightweight and too flimsy.I was conerned taht Samurai wold be of the same construction. I want both SDI and HDMI outputs live simultaneously. Samurai initial specs called for just SDI and at IBC they announced the SDI to HDMI module. I did not like Ninja's touch screen and I don't like touch screens in general. I wanted access to all of the ProRes and DNxHD codecs. I wanted more robust audio options. And I wanted something that would also be potentially more rentable.

My feeling is that for the moment the ProRes/DNxHD recorder market belongs to both SD and Atomos. Atomos will take a price-conscious segment and SD will take a higher end market sgement. SD has been pretty good so far about fixing problems quickly and the worst outstanding problem is the macroblocking in dark areas in DNxHD. I am confident that will be fixed quickly.

I can see tons of reasons to buy either. Hoping at some point actually to have a Samurai to review and then I can speak more authoritatively about it.

Both are also produced by companies attentive to customers.

And I never make a major purchase without "feeling" it. Agreed.

Ned

lasikdenver
11-25-2011, 12:21 PM
Received my Samurai today and everything seems to work well. I was able to take test footage and upload to FCP X without a problem. I formatted a 750 GB drive (Hitachi) and it will go for over 9 hours on HQ mode. At first was not getting good sound but kept it on channels 1/2 and highlighted the red REC button on the audio sub-menu. The mini cable plugs into a normal HD-SDI cable and from there into the A port which was activated. Overall very satisfied so far. The images seem to be much better than the SxS card -- richer color, less blocky. The only thing I cannot figure out is how to trigger record on the Samurai from REC on the camera. I attached it to the Berkey plate opposite side of the Cineroid EVF which seems to balance nicely right to left and a little aft for front to rear balance. It did not come with a dummy battery which would allow for D-Tap use! I have no experience with other recorders but this one seems very intuitive and nice. I did read the Ninja manual (no Samurai yet online) and this helped.

I just re-read Power Video's post about this and now I get it, you need to both set the timecode button to HD-SDI and then set the button for TC which turns yellow (2 buttons total) and then it does trigger off of the camera record button!

cckid
11-27-2011, 10:02 AM
Hi,

I am on the fence of ordering the samurai for my f3...I was wandering can it replace the need of an external monitor such as tv - logic...I would love to be able to use my samurai as an external recorder and also for critical focus assisting...can it make work and replace the need of an additional item such as an external monitor? anyone of you tried to do it this way?

cckid
11-27-2011, 10:27 AM
Hi,

I have one more question on the subject of the samurai...does it have also hdmi input...it would be great to be able to use with both cameras the f3 as well as the fs-100...can you check this info and let me know...thanks

nsoltz
11-27-2011, 10:40 AM
Samurai is only sdi. Must buy hdmi adapter to use with hdmi camera

lasikdenver
11-27-2011, 10:49 AM
Indoors, maybe -- in bright light the screen is dim and washes out outdoors, even with the brightness at maximum. It seems similar to my Sony CLM-V55 and maybe would do better with a hood. It does help so that you do not have to stare with one eye at the EVF for long periods of time.

Sparky874
11-27-2011, 12:50 PM
Hi,

I am on the fence of ordering the samurai for my f3...I was wandering can it replace the need of an external monitor such as tv - logic...I would love to be able to use my samurai as an external recorder and also for critical focus assisting...can it make work and replace the need of an additional item such as an external monitor? anyone of you tried to do it this way?

It absolutely can't be used to replace a monitor. You can only use its screen to check playback on clips. Anyone who says you can - is wrong. I don't shoot anything without my TVLOGIC monitor, as I find the waveform monitor as important as the focusing assistant. It took me a while to nail where the exposure should be on this camera (still getting to grips with it) as it's so easy to overexpose with it.

powervideo
11-27-2011, 01:02 PM
We did several commercials over the last few days and intermittantly, sound was not recorded on the Samurai. Nothing was touched on the Samurai but on several takes, no sound was recorded from the F3. This is quite serious as I see other early users have had this problem. I suspect it is related to when the F3 is powered down, then powered up again, sound is not recorded on that first power down/power up cycle. The Samurai was powered at all times. I'm going to contact Atomos support as this is quite serious. Otherwise the Samurai is a great unit, very compact, quiet and easy to use.

Sparky874
11-27-2011, 01:51 PM
We did several commercials over the last few days and intermittantly, sound was not recorded on the Samurai. Nothing was touched on the Samurai but on several takes, no sound was recorded from the F3. This is quite serious as I see other early users have had this problem. I suspect it is related to when the F3 is powered down, then powered up again, sound is not recorded on that first power down/power up cycle. The Samurai was powered at all times. I'm going to contact Atomos support as this is quite serious. Otherwise the Samurai is a great unit, very compact, quiet and easy to use.

Did you have the red light 'on' on the audio menu?

Sparky874
11-27-2011, 02:20 PM
This is an issue I have had with the Samurai. On a few clips, say 3 from a hundred, this is what the clip looks like from the Samurai! Anyone else experienced this?

44012

powervideo
11-27-2011, 02:24 PM
Yes it was on and the meters were working on Channels 1 and 2 at all times. It's actually worse than I thought. Out of 25 takes (mostly long interview grabs) only five had audio recorded on the Samurai. Only one of the commercials had audio recorded on all takes. This is the result we got;

TVC 1 (Interview)
Colour Bars - mute (this was checked then re-recorded)
Colour Bar recorded again - sound
First take - mute

TVC 2 (Interview)
Takes 1 to 4 - sound

TVC3 (Interview)
Take 1 to 6 - mute

TVC 4 (presenter)
Take 1 - sound
Takes 2 to 11 mute

Luckily we recorded to SxS as well, but this is not a good situation. The rest of the Samurai feature-set/package is great and the 422 images look fantastic, but you can't come back from the the field without audio.

Tony Brennan
11-27-2011, 02:27 PM
We had that problem on the original firmware. Are you running the latest

powervideo
11-27-2011, 02:45 PM
Another theory is that it may be something to do with playing back a clip, then after playing back, all clips after that playback are mute. I'm not sure about this but I will try and test later.

Lenilenapi
11-27-2011, 02:46 PM
How can these guys test for so long waiting for release then have so many bugs. I am mystified.
Thanks for being the BETA

powervideo
11-27-2011, 03:02 PM
This is an issue I have had with the Samurai. On a few clips, say 3 from a hundred, this is what the clip looks like from the Samurai! Anyone else experienced this?

44012


This was happening on the original firmware, but I haven't seen this on V2.52

Sparky874
11-27-2011, 11:46 PM
This was happening on the original firmware, but I haven't seen this on V2.52

I have the latest frimware!

Osslund
11-28-2011, 01:21 AM
Well, I just cancelled my order... I'm looking at the C300 and feel I can wait before deciding which camera to step up to.

powervideo
11-28-2011, 01:34 AM
Well, I just cancelled my order... Well that's just reactionary. The Ki Pro Mini and PIX240 have both had early run problems. The audio problem has been identified. I'll post shortly.

powervideo
11-28-2011, 01:47 AM
Okay.... it appears there is a direct problem with the Samurai and the F3. If the F3 is powered down whilst the Samurai in "on", no sound will be recorded afterwards when the F3 is powered up. For how many clips I don't know, but I can confirm at least six in my case. The only work-around at the moment AFAIK is to enter the audio menu after powering up and unchecking/checking the red "R" is on. This seems to re-set the audio to record sound. BTW, the audio meters and headphone are no help here; the meters pulse away merrily and the auio foldback is live, even though no sound is being recorded. If you don't power your F3 down, you won't have this issues and won't have to do this procedure.

The same scenario was tested with the Sony EX-1R in exactly the same way. It didn't have the problem. Even with repeated power up/down cycles, audio is recorded from the EX1R all the time. There is clearly a direct issue between the F3 and the Samurai at the moment. Hopefully Atomos can get a hold of an F3 and engineer this out in the firmware soon. Thanks to Tony Brennan for the extra testing.

Lenilenapi
11-28-2011, 01:58 AM
Thanks Peter

powervideo
11-28-2011, 02:28 AM
Just got some beta firmware. I'll give it a whirl.

powervideo
11-28-2011, 04:13 AM
Panasonic HPX2700 P2 Varicam works fine with powering down/up and records consistant audio just like the EX1R. Confirms even more that the the Samurai is having trouble interfacing with the F3. You just can't power down and up the F3 or the audio will not record. There is no problem if you power down the Samurai as well. It's probably safer to power up the F3 first though. So it seems to be something the F3 does while booting up, I think!. You just can't power down and up the F3 or the audio will not record. :kali:

Douglas Villalba
11-28-2011, 06:48 AM
With the KPM you have to power up the camera first. That is the only way it works.

Sparky874
11-28-2011, 09:05 AM
Panasonic HPX2700 P2 Varicam works fine with powering down/up and records consistant audio just like the EX1R. Confirms even more that the the Samurai is having trouble interfacing with the F3. You just can't power down and up the F3 or the audio will not record. There is no problem if you power down the Samurai as well. It's probably safer to power up the F3 first though. So it seems to be something the F3 does while booting up, I think!. You just can't power down and up the F3 or the audio will not record. :kali:

Sorry to confuse things a little more, but I have been powering them off and on, in no particular order, without any problems with it recording audio!

lasikdenver
11-28-2011, 09:29 AM
I have not run into this because of powering the F3 first before the Samurai or EVF (which also will not run without the camera on first) but it is good to know. Another more minor sound issue I have noticed is that when I import the video/sound into FCP X there are two ways to do that from the attached firewire Samurai reader. One is it sees the Samurai disk as a camera which imports the files with the date and time, the other option is to import as a "file" which is labeled Samurai. It seems that these should both be identical and the video is in fact identical. The file which is the camera version has much better audio than the imported as a file type. This is repeatable. The levels are higher and the sound is clearer. I first noticed this in that you can see that the peaks are higher on the waveform. I have never noticed this on imports from SxS cards into the same computer.

powervideo
11-28-2011, 12:41 PM
Sorry to confuse things a little more, but I have been powering them off and on, in no particular order, without any problems with it recording audio!

I'm going to do more testing today and see if I can try and get to the bottom of it. Thanks Sparky.

nateweaver
11-28-2011, 01:00 PM
This is repeatable. The levels are higher and the sound is clearer. I first noticed this in that you can see that the peaks are higher on the waveform. I have never noticed this on imports from SxS cards into the same computer.

I expect one method is only importing the first 2 channels of audio, and the other is importing 8 channels of audio. Different NLEs will handle the summation of 8ch audio to a 2channel sequence differently.

Sometimes it's necessary if you have 8 channels of audio recorded with zero headroom, when it's down mixed to 2 channels there has to be 3db of attenuation for each addition channel when they are summed. So 8ch audio might be attenuated -18db.

Phil Hanna
11-28-2011, 03:18 PM
Hi Nate:
I get my Samurai tomorrow and have a WD 750GB HD in hand ready to go. Are there step by step instructions with the unit? I know the website says the manual is coming. Can you walk me through the initial setup when the unit arrives? I do know Atomos says to format the drive and do the update first thing. I would appreciate any help you may offer.
Regards,
Phil Hanna
Indian Rocks Beach, FL

powervideo
11-28-2011, 03:29 PM
I just did a specific test on V2.52. I turned on the F3 and Samurai and recorded ten clips to the Samurai resulting in no sound being recorded. I then cycled the power on the Samurai and I got recorded audio. It appears that if the F3 is powered on first (before the samurai is switched on, then sound is recorded. If the Samurai is powered on BEFORE the F3, then no sound is recorded. So at present, you must always turn the F3 on before the Samurai, and if turning off the F3 to do a change in camera setup, make sure the Samurai is powered down as well before going through the same startup with F3 power up first, then the Samurai.

Can someone please test this scenario for me?

powervideo
11-29-2011, 02:50 AM
Update: connect the SDi to Samurai cable from the SDI-A output of the F3 (and not the standard SDI Mon out) and the audio problem is solved. There must be some strange connection issue between the SDI MON out and the samurai. But at the moment it seems okay if you use the dual link SDI-A connector.

gregpen
11-29-2011, 08:07 AM
Update: connect the SDi to Samurai cable from the SDI-A output of the F3 (and not the standard SDI Mon out) and the audio problem is solved. There must be some strange connection issue between the SDI MON out and the samurai. But at the moment it seems okay if you use the dual link SDI-A connector.

Thanks for the great info.

Sparky874
11-29-2011, 10:45 AM
Update: connect the SDi to Samurai cable from the SDI-A output of the F3 (and not the standard SDI Mon out) and the audio problem is solved. There must be some strange connection issue between the SDI MON out and the samurai. But at the moment it seems okay if you use the dual link SDI-A connector.

Hi Peter, I have always connected it from there. My only problem is the occassional strange clip that looks totally like this!:

44103

powervideo
11-29-2011, 12:35 PM
Hi Peter, I have always connected it from there. My only problem is the occassional strange clip that looks totally like this!:

44103

1. Have you check the version number to make sure the firmware updated correctly?
2. Have you tried switching out the connecting SDI cable?

Sparky874
11-29-2011, 12:49 PM
yep new firmware in there Peter. Cable seems fine, it only happens once in every fifty/sixty clips or so..

powervideo
11-29-2011, 12:55 PM
Have you sent a note to Atomos? support@atomos.com

Sparky874
11-29-2011, 01:00 PM
not yet, but must do that tomorrow. Cheers.

powervideo
12-01-2011, 10:54 AM
not yet, but must do that tomorrow. Cheers.

The 28-page Samurai manual is now available for download.
http://www.atomos.com/samurai/manual/Samurai-UserManual-v1.pdf

powervideo
12-01-2011, 11:26 AM
New V2.6 firmware for samurai can be found here:
http://www.atomos.com/samurai/firmware/

(http://www.atomos.com/samurai/firmware/)Issues Addressed in this firmware update:


Added red letter box border in the monitor when recording (black when not).
Fixed 'stale' video in the black letter box border in the monitor when switching video modes.
Audio fix: certain cameras could detect the wrong number of channels of audio present.


(http://www.atomos.com/samurai/firmware/)

powervideo
12-02-2011, 11:15 PM
One thing I discovered today on a shoot (luckily not too critical a shoot). If you are recording ANY format other than 1080, you must connect the Samurai to the F3's standard SDI MON out, and not the dual link HD-SDI A output. I was recording 720 50P on the F3 but the Samurai was recording 1080 50i.

An interesting titbit is that you can simultaneously record 720 internally on SxS and 1080 externally. It is probably of dubious value because of the external default to 50i. So for general piece of mind, use the SDI OUT connector.

skimmel
01-24-2012, 10:21 AM
Just curious: with the newest firmware, have the audio problems with the F3 and the Samurai been fixed? Also, any updates on the weird green frames? Thanks.

Duke M.
01-24-2012, 03:41 PM
The audio has been fixed. The green clips were from using port A without the F3 firmware upgrade.

The green frames seemed to be related to using non-approved drives. I know some drives cashe in a manner that isn't compatable. For instance the Scorpio blue advocated by some is not fully compatable, but the Scorpio black is. The blue drive slows down before the end of the drive and won't write fast enough. Not all drives have been tested yet.

And occasionally a drive is just out of specs, especially if it was dropped before you bought it. Problem is its a pain to fully test a drive before you use it. But if you really consider yourself professional, what do you take to the shoot? The approved drive that you tested.

powervideo
01-24-2012, 03:54 PM
Duke I can say categorically that the drive is not the problem. I use two approved drives only; the Scorpio Black 500gb and the Intel X25 160gb SSD. I re-format in the samurai before each shoot. My DOP also uses an X25 and also has the infrequent green frame flashing. We are suspecting low voltage in the camera causing the issue when the battery runs low, but I can't be sure of this. It's not the drives. Also we have only been using the SDI-MON out and have got green flashing on all the firmware versions including the latest. It's rare but a concern nonetheless.



The audio has been fixed. The green clips were from using port A without the F3 firmware upgrade.

The green frames seemed to be related to using non-approved drives. I know some drives cashe in a manner that isn't compatable. For instance the Scorpio blue advocated by some is not fully compatable, but the Scorpio black is. The blue drive slows down before the end of the drive and won't write fast enough. Not all drives have been tested yet.

And occasionally a drive is just out of specs, especially if it was dropped before you bought it. Problem is its a pain to fully test a drive before you use it. But if you really consider yourself professional, what do you take to the shoot? The approved drive that you tested.

powervideo
01-30-2012, 07:39 PM
There is new 2.7 firmware for the Samurai on the Atomos site.

Duke M.
01-30-2012, 08:04 PM
I note in v2.7 firmware:

"Improved handling of SDI inputs with glitches/jitter/other instabilities. This addresses problems with green/blue/pink video in recordings."

powervideo
01-30-2012, 11:02 PM
I just put in a request to Atomos to put a little padlock icon on the screen to indicate the panel is locked. (my simulation below)

47149

Fotojorno
01-31-2012, 09:57 PM
I just put in a request to Atomos to put a little padlock icon on the screen to indicate the panel is locked. (my simulation below)

47149

Fantastic suggestion.. Just downloaded firmware 2.7 which adds a great screen locking feature but unfortunately there is no visual indication when it's locked or not.

Side note, if anyone is interested in "non-approved" or untested by Atomos SSD drives, I'm happy to report I've been using a OWC 120GB Mercury EXTREME Pro 6G SSD with complete success. In SSD tests, it's one of the fastest drives made apparently. After initial tests I wound up using it on a paid gig recently that was a 90 minute concert (One clip) and the file looks great.

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Mercury_6G/