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View Full Version : FS100 ugly edges! what is that?



Eimulis
10-24-2011, 02:42 AM
I shot some footage 1080p50, and noticed some problems,
What are those ugly colored edges here?

4215742158

EDIT: thank you all for help. It is in fact a chromatic abberation, it disappears after stopping down the lens.
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nomad-3
10-24-2011, 03:41 AM
Overexposure!

mediaplexx
10-24-2011, 03:47 AM
Aliasing?

LiamR
10-24-2011, 04:01 AM
Overexposure!

Bam, not an easy task when pointing it straight at those open windows...

Postmaster
10-24-2011, 04:13 AM
Clipping color channel going berserk.

Pull down the exposure, put some light on your talent (a reflector would probably do the trick) and you are fine IMHO.

Frank

Eimulis
10-24-2011, 04:57 AM
Is it normal to get that in overexposed places?

I could live with 1000$ DSLR moire and aliasing restrictions
but from 6000$ camera it is unacceptable...

tscav
10-24-2011, 06:19 AM
It looks like Chromatic aberration... Which lens did you use? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration)

David W. Jones
10-24-2011, 06:24 AM
Is it normal to get that in overexposed places?

I could live with 1000$ DSLR moire and aliasing restrictions
but from 6000$ camera it is unacceptable...

A $6k camera is still controlled by you.

Eimulis
10-24-2011, 06:51 AM
I've used kit lens 18-200mm

It's blocky and looks like some sampling problem

here's the original shot:
http://vaizdostudija.com/dideli/fs100_bug.m2ts

DM_rider
10-24-2011, 07:31 AM
I've ran into the same thing. Just gotta really watch exposure. I didn't even notice it as I was shooting. I also ran into purple rings around highlights as well.
42170

Eimulis
10-24-2011, 07:34 AM
It looks like Chromatic aberration... Which lens did you use?


I've ran into the same thing. Just gotta really watch exposure. I didn't even notice it as I was shooting. I also ran into purple rings around highlights as well.
42170

it's absolutely unacceptable
sony should fix it in a firmware update

daveswan
10-24-2011, 07:56 AM
A firmware update aint gonna change the laws of physics, sorry.

Put more fill light on your talant, put ND gel over the windows or change your angle to avoid them.

You could try a decent lens (Leitz are good), but really you're grosly overexposing the windows. Looking at the scene you may not have noticed how much brighter the windows are because of your eye's adaptability, but no cam is going to cope with that unaided.

Dave

David W. Jones
10-24-2011, 08:14 AM
it's absolutely unacceptable
sony should fix it in a firmware update

It's no more Sony's fault, the same as it's not Panasonic's fault when people bitch about the same thing on the AF100.

Expose the image properly!

Eimulis
10-24-2011, 08:39 AM
I've had no such problems with canon DSLRS

speedracerlo
10-24-2011, 08:45 AM
try a different lens, it looks like some kind of chromatic abberation or fringing

legrevedotcom
10-24-2011, 08:56 AM
I did a green screen shoot where I managed to screw up the kicker... overexposed. The editor had a fun time cleaning up and camouflaging my mess :S So take care to light properly. In your case I would probably go with the idea of lighting the talent to bring down the contrast and save your highlights.

J Davis
10-24-2011, 09:03 AM
thats chromatic aberration alright, maybe use a prime for that shot

Danielvilliers
10-24-2011, 09:40 AM
Ii it the state of the world we live for now, so that people accuse someone because he criticize his camera. So it can't be a Sony error... So if the camera or codec does not handle highlight well it is the fault of the operator. So if for a reason I want some blown out window, it is impossible. They should put it on there sales brochure. No they will tell you that a 8 bit 24 mbit codec is nice. Should you ask more it will cost you thousands more because it requires so much technology r&d ... yes a little $ 800 gh2 can do 200 mbit intra frame video. I can't understand how some can believe this.

I can understand the esthetic of your shot, blown out windows creating some blooming and a nearly silhouette character, more so a dancer that will move gracefully into this frame. I guess many cannot understand such an artistic choice.


Now on the technical side, what I see it is like chromatic aberration from the lens, that is not handled gracefully by the camera or codec. Normally it should have been present in all places where you have this overexposure/contrast between light and dark part and it should have been much smaller. Its blockyness is a hint that it is more a codec problem, I guess at certain threshold where it is sampling the data/pixel it is just magnifying the magenta and green chromatic aberration. I don't know if I am right or explaining it well.

I don't know if it is possible for you to use an external recorder or a 1080p high resolution monitor or TV to see an uncompressed signal to know if it is the codec. If it is the case either you will have to use an external recorder, or light or gel the windows (but change the character of your shot). If it is the lens producing too much chromatic aberration, use a very good zoom, or prime or try to close the lens a bit to minimize it.

Postmaster
10-24-2011, 09:42 AM
I've had no such problems with canon DSLRS

Cause the Knee protects against that.
You can do the same thing by setting your picture profiles to auto knee.
Not pretty ether, but the DSLR look.

The professional way of shooting would be to control your light and exposure though.

Frank

eheath
10-24-2011, 02:21 PM
I've had no such problems with canon DSLRS

you over exposed the image, watch your histogram and you wont have any problems. I don't get why you thought you could shoot into bright windows for an indoor scene. the camera is not to blame, your problem is operator error.

Richard Allen Crook
10-24-2011, 04:02 PM
Hmmm...I immediately thought of detail levels. Is it turned down all the way?

tscav
10-25-2011, 05:42 AM
Agreed. I would say the color fringe is caused by the lens. Try a prime lens - the best one you can get hold of (master prime preferbly:) I bet it will make a difference.
Secondly that sid, the codec migt be amplifying the error caused by the lens. Try the solution mentioned earlier of either recording an uncompressed signal (get a atomos ninja or a BM shuttle) Or try watching it on a good monitor.
That's the technical side of it. Lighting the subject, putting nd on the windows and so on, would be a good approach in controlling a scene that holds alot of challenges - for any camera.

Eimulis
10-25-2011, 09:42 AM
Thank you all for help. I'll do some tests and I'll post my results.

This was an artistic choice to make it more contrastfull and more dramatic.

Ian-T
10-25-2011, 08:11 PM
I hate that term "Operator Error" escpecially here where the operator was purposely trying for this particular look. I've seen many videos, for example, by Hunter Richards who shoots similar stuff like this on HDSLRs and they look spectacular.

maarek
10-26-2011, 01:12 AM
That is just chromatic aberrations caused by the lens. Stop it down or get a better one. Chromatic aberrations look bad in 4:2:0 color space because slight color mismatches will get boosted to 4x the size. Hence big blues/reds in aberration areas.

So, either get a lens that is better in that regard or watch out for them while shooting.

Postmaster
10-26-2011, 02:14 AM
I hate that term "Operator Error" escpecially here where the operator was purposely trying for this particular look. I've seen many videos, for example, by Hunter Richards who shoots similar stuff like this on HDSLRs and they look spectacular.

I shot a ton of blown out stuff with the FS100. - itīs absolute doable and can look great, if you want that special look.

No offense here, but you have to know the basics of the trade, and understand how your tools work.

A lot of folks here expect that the camera does everything, an experienced DP learns over the years, - right out of the box .
DSLRs actually do that to some degree, by limiting your choices.

If thatīs what you want, and if you can live with the cons - a DSLR is the better nobrainer.

Personally I prefer a brainer camera though.

Frank

roblc12
10-29-2011, 03:18 PM
That kinda looks like chromatic aberration to me.

Rick Burnett
10-29-2011, 03:47 PM
I'm going to go with Chromatic Aberration as well, and tell you that DSLR's make no difference on this. I was using a Nikon 50mm F1.8 lens on a 7D and I stopped using it because everytime I had a shot with high spatial frequency (like blown out window next to relatively dark interior) the purple fringing would be out of control. Switched to a Sigma 50mm F1.4 and no problem, at all.

While highlight handling can be an issue, I personally reigned it in by reducing the saturation out of the camera. I think the colors, like the AF100, are too rich coming off the sensor. This gives me a bit more headroom before a channel blows out on a highlight.

That said, most blowouts can be easily tamed in post. Some color correction can fix just what the internal processing could do at those top ends. I've seem MANY people here fix up their shots with relative ease. It's just learning how to do it.

However, getting rid of the CA should be your first step.

bkmvincent
10-29-2011, 05:00 PM
Either gel the windows, compensate exposure more, or fill light your talent. That kind of hard edge is going to cause problems on a lot of cameras, not just the FS100!

(but I will say that it's far easier to get these kind of artifacts with this camera, I thought it was CA at first as many have stated but it's not entirely)

bimdas
10-29-2011, 08:07 PM
It doesn't matter what it is, that's a 10 second repair job in post anyway. Simply isolate the fringing and desat or adjust the hue to blend in with the background.

Eimulis
11-23-2011, 11:33 AM
thank you all for help. It is in fact a chromatic abberation, it disappears after stopping down the lens. For this particular project I've cleaned it with photoshop where possible.
Check out a series of ads with this shot:


http://vimeo.com/32581408

http://vimeo.com/32580167
http://vimeo.com/32581800
http://vimeo.com/32582321

NeedCreative
12-18-2011, 08:11 PM
It's not just CA. I've seen the same CA with a Sony F3 using the same lens... but the F3 doesn't give you that blocky mess at the edges. You just get purple and white - as expected from from an overexposed shot. The FS100 adds some kind of odd aliasing that's there regardless of whether you record internally or externally. It's a processing issue with the camera.

All of these "learn your craft" remarks sent to the OP were a little harsh IMHO. Sure it was overexposed but it doesn't negate the fact that the FS100 treats that situation less gracefully than other cameras.

The ways to minimize this is to control the light (which in documentaries isn't always possible), stop down the lens a tad, and/or reduce in post with a desat pass. It's still ugly though, and other cameras don't make such a mess of it.

Ulisse
01-01-2012, 04:46 AM
I notice the same problem in highlight situation.

NeedCreative
01-18-2012, 12:46 PM
Ultimately this issue (among others) caused me to sell the camera. I'm getting a C300 from Canon (that's a big jump but I have other reasons as well).

Selling a bunch of stuff actually... in the marketplace forum.