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View Full Version : New Tripod - I ask your advices



gianx80
10-08-2011, 02:56 AM
Hi my friends :). As some of you already know, I purchased in August my new FS100. I'm a newbie in the video making field, but I'm learning fast thanks to all your precious advices.
I'd love to buy a new tripod (the one that I already have is too weak for the new cam). I don't have a big budget (I mean, I could also spend 600 bucks for a tripod, but I'd love to save my money ... the camera itself was already so expensive). So I'm here to ask: which is the best tripod for my FS100 with the best quality-price ratio?

Someone suggested to me the Manfrotto 701HDV head with the Manfrotto 547BK tripod

Someone else suggested the Benro HK25 tripod or an E-Image one

so, which are your toughts?

MattDavis
10-08-2011, 04:29 AM
The Sachtler Ace seemed to get good report and is designed for this class of camera. If I were in the market for one, I'd want to check the Ace out.

Tripods don't tend to go out of date in a couple of years, unlike cameras. :)

jetswing
10-08-2011, 06:29 AM
Another vote for Sachtler Ace

gianx80
10-08-2011, 07:36 AM
That seems a nice tripod ... but I see it will be released in USA in November. Do you know any European release date and reseller? I know, I can buy from USA but I have to buy some extra tax

MattDavis
10-08-2011, 07:39 AM
Do you know any European release date and reseller?

No need to fret over US prices. Sachtler is part of a huge cartel including Vinten, Manfrotto etc. It's European:

http://bit.ly/rlqsWT

gianx80
10-08-2011, 07:46 AM
That's good to hear. I looked on proav and adcom ... proav doesn't have Sachtler products and adcom doesn't have the Ace model.
Any suggestions about dealers?

And, any suggestions on other tripods?

gianx80
11-05-2011, 07:45 AM
So, last confirmation before buy it ... at the moment the Sachtler Ace is the best tripod for my FS100 in its price range?

EDIT

So, which is the difference between

http://www.sachtler.com/en/products/camera-support/fluid-heads/product_tripod-systems-75-mm_system-ace-m-ms.html

and

http://www.sachtler.com/en/products/camera-support/fluid-heads/product_tripod-systems-75-mm_system-ace-m-gs.html

I mean, one has mid-level spreader and one has a normal spreader ... so what's the difference in usage?

NorBro
11-05-2011, 10:48 AM
The spreaders are support for the tripod based on the weight of what you got going on. If you're shooting outside a lot, I'd recommend the mid. You can use the ground too with spiked feet outside, but it's always been easier for me to move around with a mid spreader.

gianx80
11-05-2011, 11:13 AM
Thanks :).

On the site of Visual Impact Group I can buy it for 393. Do you know that site? Any feedback?

NorBro
11-05-2011, 01:18 PM
No, sorry, I don't. I live in NYC and walk down the block to a little store called...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/

eheath
11-05-2011, 06:37 PM
sachtler fsb4

gianx80
11-07-2011, 02:16 AM
It seems more expensive than ace ... a couple hundreds euros more. My budget is 550/600 € so I think I can't afford the fsb4. However, is it really better than ace model?

eheath
11-07-2011, 11:13 AM
It seems more expensive than ace ... a couple hundreds euros more. My budget is 550/600 € so I think I can't afford the fsb4. However, is it really better than ace model?

well, the ace hasn't been shipped yet (soon i think?) so there isn't much info about it. im sure the head will be good but the legs will probably be pieces of shit at 550. the fsb4 is an amazing tripod, im buying one as soon as i get the money for it. the ace could be amazing and be very good for the price, but everyone is going off the name of the produce so far, not on personal opinions and experiences.

Paul Wood
11-07-2011, 01:21 PM
My Ace arrived at the weekend - I will post a quick review of use with the FS100 in a day or so - my first impressions, are the head is quite good - balance is a bit strange, but I will practice, and the legs are OK - lightweight but seem firm enough.

righteous.
11-07-2011, 04:02 PM
The Sachtler Ace could very well be nice considering the brand's track record and reputation. However, you would be taking a risk buying one when nobody really knows how nice it is compared to their other products. I mean, Sachtler makes wonderful products and I trust them, but it IS cheaper for a reason. Whether or not the ACE is up to par with the FSB series is unknown (the price hints unfavorably), but we do know for sure that the FSB is better than the ACE because the FSB heads are revered in every facet of the cinema industry.

In my opinion, you should save for the fsb4. A couple hundred more Euros is a small price to pay when you're getting a head that has proven itself time after time. At least with an fsb4 you're getting a "sure thing," compared to the ACE which is really a tossup.

Definitely avoid Manfrotto. They are mediocre at best, and I'm being generous.

Remember that a camera is only as good as its tripod when shooting long focal lengths. I had the opportunity to upgrade from my 7D to an fs100 but instead I spent that money on a tripod and have no regrets. I also can't count how many times I've seen otherwise great fs100 footage get completely ruined because the shooter cheaped out on their tripod.

gianx80
11-08-2011, 07:08 AM
The Ace is already out in Europe ;).

@Paul Wood
I'll wait for your review :)

And yes, I know, the quality of the tripod is so so important :)

Ok, I'm thinking about a fsb4 ... any other suggestions?

Dermot
11-08-2011, 07:45 AM
I own three heads & legs, all for diffrent purposes..
- i am very happy with the choice of a 501 & matching legs - very light weight, the 501 is what we travel with.. works even with a 70-210 + doubler on it (carefully)
- i have a Video20, but i have to add a 5Lb weight, even at the lightest setting the FS is far to light for this head.
- i also have a Ronford F7 & standard/baby legs... i don't even know the FS is on it.. but if i ever need the FS with a PL mount and a Angenieux 17-102, then i'm covered ;-)


d

Paul Wood
11-08-2011, 11:38 AM
I have to say I am spoilt by having a Vinten Blue as my main tripod, and its is easy to criticize the Ace when comparing them one on one, despite the 400 price difference in Spain. However, I bought the Ace as a lightweight tripod, mainly for use with my NX 70 for use on field trips. I have a Manfrotto 357 adapter fitted to give me flexibility.


Starting with the head, the Ace has 3 positions of drag for both pan and tilt, and these are set well for the job. There is enough choice between them for most shooting situations.
The head is counterbalanced using a 5 position spring setting, and the FS100 with a Samyang 35 mm and no rig weighs in at 3,5Kg, and is counterbalanced at the 3rd position, staying almost balanced in whatever tilt position.
As with any spring system with fixed positions, there is a trade off to be made if the camera does not hit the exact weight, and the combination of my FS100 is more like 3.5 stops on the balance position, which the Ace does not allow.
The pan arm fixes to the center of the axis of the head, only on the right hand side, and therefore controls movement exactly, with no tendency to drag or twist past your intended stopping point.
Both the pan and tilt locks work as advertised, and hold firm with the camera loaded.


The head sits on a 75 mm ball, and a spirit ball level is fitted, although I find the adjustment a little awkward due to the design of the locking handle/nut.
The tripod suppled is an aluminum two stage design, giving a maximum height of 1.54m, (5) and minimum of .64m (21), and is fitted with rubber ball feet covering spikes.
This can give some issues on slippery surfaces, due to the small area touching the floor, but in my limited use, this has not so far proved a problem, although I feel I should keep a hand on the tripod when panning - this may be because I am not used to it yet.


Two models are available, with a mid level or floor level spreader - I have the mid level version, and the spreader is adjustable by 100mm.
I have to say, the tripod feels what it is - lightweight - and is no comparison with the solid feel of the Vinten, but that was the reason I bought it, so no complaints there.


Overall, as all the reviews so far say, I would give the Ace 4 out of 5 for performance at its price point. Tripod aside, the Sachtler fluid head is excellent, and its smoothness is far better than my Manfrotto 501 used on a slider. I will have to see how the tripod stands up to regular use, but of course, it could be swapped for something else.
I will try and post some footage, time allowing over the weekend.

righteous.
11-08-2011, 12:27 PM
Ok, I'm thinking about a fsb4 ... any other suggestions?
As far as that price point goes, I've heard very good things about the Vinten Vision Blue. I haven't personally used it, however. I also hear from many people that Sachtler is the best you can buy for the money, and considering the FSB4 is almost the EXACT same design as Sachtler's $1,500 FSB6/FSB8 heads (the only difference is the number of payload springs), I would have to agree. You're essentially getting a $1,500 fluid head design for under $1,000, which can't be beat imo. To top it off, FSB heads hold their value very well.



- i am very happy with the choice of a 501 & matching legs - very light weight, the 501 is what we travel with.. works even with a 70-210 + doubler on it (carefully)

I've used the 501 for years and I've had nothing but bad experiences with them. Not only do they completely break down after 3 years of use outside of a studio, but they demand a careful hand, often resulting in 20+ attempts before I can get a consistent movement, and frankly that is the very mark of a poor head. True, it may get the job done in a pinch, but to have this as a primary tripod at telephoto lengths is suicide. If it doesn't look bad enough on your computer monitor, try watching it on a 1080p tv or theatre screen and the microjitters and inconsistencies will stick out like a sore thumb. And don't even think about doing any sort of diagonal movement; there's almost no point in even trying.



Tripod aside, the Sachtler fluid head is excellent, and its smoothness is far better than my Manfrotto 501 used on a slider.
This doesn't surprise me at all considering the fact that comparing Manfrotto to Sachtler is like comparing McDonalds food to a 5-star restaurant.

Just to clarify, both Manfrotto and Sachtler are owned by Vitec Group. Manfrotto is designated to the lower level crowd, while Sachtler is designated to the working professional crowd. In other words, Sachtler products are intended to be nicer than Manfrotto. And with models such as the FSB4, the division between those two realms becomes blurred to the point where you'd have to be crazy not to opt for the higher of the two.

Dermot
11-08-2011, 01:58 PM
I've used the 501 for years and I've had nothing but bad experiences with them. Not only do they completely break down after 3 years of use outside of a studio, but they demand a careful hand, often resulting in 20+ attempts before I can get a consistent movement, and frankly that is the very mark of a poor head. True, it may get the job done in a pinch, but to have this as a primary tripod at telephoto lengths is suicide. If it doesn't look bad enough on your computer monitor, try watching it on a 1080p tv or theatre screen and the microjitters and inconsistencies will stick out like a sore thumb. And don't even think about doing any sort of diagonal movement; there's almost no point in even trying.


Best i can say is on a 60' screen the shots are fine.. go to this link, select films, select "Desert Riders", beside "trailer" select "view show"... as the reviews mentioned it looks pretty good... we shot it with 3x 501's, two 501's underneath EX's and one 501 underneath a 7D.. longest lens was a 300, and yea panning was a PITA, but to take any of our bigger heads & legs would not work in terms of the travel involved

All three of the 501's are well past 3 years old, the only issue we've had aside from regular re-builds after a dusty, dirty trip was when a nameless person who is NOT me, left one in a taxi in Singapore..

Linkkie here;
http://www.filmblanc.com/

if i did not have a video20 and was looking for head & sticks, i would be searching Craigslist and fleabay for a used Vinton or Schalter tho... the 501 would not be my first choice if it was going to the only choice.. but for light & small it's been a good choice for us

d

gianx80
11-09-2011, 05:58 AM
Thanks for the illuminating discussion, thanks :). So, if I have enough money I should go for fsb4 otherwise I should go for the ace because these two solutions are the ones with the best price/quality ratio in the segment, am I right?

TheDingo
11-09-2011, 06:56 AM
It seems more expensive than ace ... a couple hundreds euros more. My budget is 550/600 so I think I can't afford the fsb4. However, is it really better than ace model?

You should also consider the Libec RS-250, which has been getting good reviews for their new line of fluid heads.

Libec RS-250M (http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/index.php?t=product/libec_rs-250m)

Libec RS Series Tripods review by Nigel Cooper (http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=228)

righteous.
11-09-2011, 09:44 AM
Thanks for the illuminating discussion, thanks :). So, if I have enough money I should go for fsb4 otherwise I should go for the ace because these two solutions are the ones with the best price/quality ratio in the segment, am I right?

Yes, but as I stated previously, the FSB4 isn't that much more expensive than the Ace, and it's an industry-tested sure-thing. With the Ace you may or may not get a quality fluid head (don't get your hopes up for the legs), or at best it would be similar to an fsb4. But why not just skip the middle man and buy the fsb4 instead of a budget model (that's hardly any cheaper) that's meant to imitate the fsb4?

LiamR
11-09-2011, 05:37 PM
What sort of work are you going to be doing with the tripod? that's the most important thing

I myself have a rather big setup and 8.8 lb of the Sachtler is not enough, if you ever plan on adding extra thing's to your camera, then don't make a bad investment now for the future... especially if you ever consider yourself buying a bigger camera then the FS100 (which I do), it's called future proofing.

I have the Manfrotto 509 head, and it holds up to 29 lb, more than 3 times more, maybe you could look at the 504?? holds up to 16 lb, just make sure you go over everything and think about it properly before throwing hundreds of dollars around, I never thought I would have a lens that weighs more than the actual camera, but I do...

eiker_ir
11-09-2011, 07:56 PM
What sort of work are you going to be doing with the tripod? that's the most important thing

I myself have a rather big setup and 8.8 lb of the Sachtler is not enough, if you ever plan on adding extra thing's to your camera, then don't make a bad investment now for the future... especially if you ever consider yourself buying a bigger camera then the FS100 (which I do), it's called future proofing.

I have the Manfrotto 509 head, and it holds up to 29 lb, more than 3 times more, maybe you could look at the 504?? holds up to 16 lb, just make sure you go over everything and think about it properly before throwing hundreds of dollars around, I never thought I would have a lens that weighs more than the actual camera, but I do...


how has been your experience with the 509hd? i've been looking it up lately online but i can't find many reviews on this model, they all mostly focus on the smaller 504 model.

eheath
11-10-2011, 01:25 AM
sachtler ace has been pushed back to january shipping... even more reason to get the fsb4

gianx80
11-26-2011, 04:37 AM
Ace should be already out in Europe.

I'll do mainly short movies. I'll not change my camera soo, but in the future I'd love to add heavier lenses, follow focus ecc.

So I should go for the FSB4, right?

Osslund
01-07-2012, 03:48 PM
I have both the 504 and a FSB8. On alla accounts the FSB8 is a better head and alot more expensive. I guess you'll get the same quality with the FSB4.

gianx80
04-11-2012, 02:30 AM
You should also consider the Libec RS-250, which has been getting good reviews for their new line of fluid heads.

Libec RS-250M (http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/index.php?t=product/libec_rs-250m)

Libec RS Series Tripods review by Nigel Cooper (http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=228)

I think I'm finally boing to buy my new tripod. Any new feedback on Libec ones? Any FSB4 vs Libec comparison :)?

Philip Goetz
04-11-2012, 07:27 AM
Review of the Ace tripod:

http://vimeo.com/39899103

gianx80
04-25-2012, 01:21 AM
You should also consider the Libec RS-250, which has been getting good reviews for their new line of fluid heads.

Libec RS-250M (http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/index.php?t=product/libec_rs-250m)

Libec RS Series Tripods review by Nigel Cooper (http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=228)

Ok, I think that Libec RS-250 and Sachtler FSB4 are not comparable. Now, I have to buy a new tripod, but I cannot afford Sachtler FSB4 so, if you have to choose for the same price, what tripod would you pick? Sachtler ace or Libec RS-250 or Vinten Vision Blue? :)