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View Full Version : Lens options for FS100



billygraydon
08-19-2011, 08:53 PM
Doing some comparisons based on the Abel Cine Lenses and Accessories article for the FS100 -- http://www.abelcine.com/articles/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=607&Itemid=35

I would love to hear from anyone who's used the Sony/Zeiss lenses and tell me wether they are a better buy than the ZF.2s for general use and narrative shooting. color reproduction, flares, softness, etc.

Below is a breakdown of the potential lens purchases and three different options:

Everyday Shooting:
Sony LA-EA1 adapter - $150
Carl Zeiss 16-35mm F/2.8 - $1900
Carl Zeiss 24-70mm F/2.8 - $1600
Total: $3650

Sony Primes:
Sony LA-EA1 adapter - $150
Carl Zeiss/Sony 24mm F/2.0 - $1250
Sony 35mm F/1.4 G series - $1370
Sony 50mm F/1.4 - $370
Carl Zeiss/Sony 85mm F/1.4 - $1370
Carl Zeiss/Sony 135mm F/1.8 - $1480
Total: $5,990

Zeiss ZF.2:
MTF adapter - $475
Zeiss 25mm F/2.8 - $1,005
Zeiss 35mm F/1.4 - $1,850
Zeiss 50mm F/1.4 - $725
Zeiss 85mm F/1.4 - $1285
Total: $5,340

The Zeiss CP.2s were not included because they are out of my price range. I also feel that the availability of PL mount lens rentals in my area allows me to have a decent personal kit and rent out when larger productions come around.

I'd love to hear what you all think. Pros/Cons.

Thanks in advance!

mico
08-19-2011, 09:17 PM
The LA-EA1 is problematic from what I've read when using it on a FS100. In a couple of days if the rumors are true Sony will announce news lenses and update the adapter to the LA-EA2 which will have fast auto focus aperture control by camera amd Image stabilization which will make those wonderful A mount Zeiss lenses pretty much the best setup for this camera if you can afford it.

morgan_moore
08-19-2011, 10:47 PM
You are looking to spend (what is to me) serious money

I would say you should rent/borrow some of this stuff

To me lenses have minute differences that make them winners or losers, mainly focus smoothness and focus distance of travel

----

For example the Sonies look attractive (I have no experience of them) but may for instance have issues with the focus movement and also I find the position of the aperture control on the camera annoying

You should check the resale of the sony glass too - sony is not too popular with still photographers

Also would the sony glass work on a new camera - the 2012 panny or Canon that you may feel you need

On the other hand you may get wobble and backlash issues with the zeiss - the adapter can only be as good as the camera mount - which is not that good

For $5k I would be considering a used RRP 18-80 which you can 'nail' to your rails and solve any FF torque issues once and for all

I get that if it was not so heavy

FWIW I have an amazing nikkor 35-70 that cost me $100, so some used could be just as good and leave you enough cash for a new car

In the used market Id tend to avoid nikkor and go with lenses that focus the 'cine' way canon FD, Contax, (leica?)

To repeat .. IMO physically try before you buy

S

Searcher
08-20-2011, 12:15 AM
In the used market Id tend to avoid nikkor and go with lenses that focus the 'cine' way canon FD, Contax, (leica?)
Zeiss ZF glass doesn't focus the 'cine' way but is still very popular. You can get a FF that reverses the direction if it's a problem.

rcteague
08-20-2011, 12:47 AM
My lens set up seems to be working well and a bit cheaper also

Sony LA-E1 adapter $150 (going to replace when Sony releases LA-E2 @$400)
Tokina 11-16mm 2.8 $650
Sigma 30mm 1.4 $450
Sigma 50mm 1.4 $500
Sigma 24-70mm 2.8 $899
Sigma 70-200mm 2.8 $1300

Total: $3900.00 its a pretty big cost difference and the sigma lenses as I found out with my 7D def hold there own

Dermot
08-20-2011, 08:12 AM
Everyday Shooting:
Sony LA-EA1 adapter - $150
Carl Zeiss 16-35mm F/2.8 - $1900
Carl Zeiss 24-70mm F/2.8 - $1600
Total: $3650

I'd love to hear what you all think. Pros/Cons.

Thanks in advance!

That's what i have, used for narative only, no R-n-G, full rig attached

pros?
- razor sharp
- inexpensive
- light
- zooms = fewer lens change outs = less chance to get the enviroment onto the sensor

Cons?
- can't pull stops due to the adpt's shortcomings
- focus is an endless ring, workaround is to use FF always

I also have some Nikon & Zuko primes & long zooms that have been in my bag for decades, but almost always it's the mid or short zoom on the camera

billygraydon
08-20-2011, 01:58 PM
That's what i have, used for narative only, no R-n-G, full rig attached

pros?
- razor sharp
- inexpensive
- light
- zooms = fewer lens change outs = less chance to get the enviroment onto the sensor

Cons?
- can't pull stops due to the adpt's shortcomings
- focus is an endless ring, workaround is to use FF always

I also have some Nikon & Zuko primes & long zooms that have been in my bag for decades, but almost always it's the mid or short zoom on the camera

I am reading around that the second version of the adapter should solve some of the problems that the first one has. Also, What follow focus are you using? I'd love to hear if anyone has used the RR FollowFocus Blue? It does seem like an attractive package to begin with without investing to much in any particular lens set. Thanks again!

cuervo
08-20-2011, 03:52 PM
I am reading around that the second version of the adapter should solve some of the problems that the first one has. Also, What follow focus are you using? I'd love to hear if anyone has used the RR FollowFocus Blue? It does seem like an attractive package to begin with without investing to much in any particular lens set. Thanks again!

According to Juan Martinez, from Sony, there is no difference in optical quality between the Canon/Nikon 35mm lenses and the cine lenses. One can have cine optical quality at a fraction of the price. The price differential is due to the mechanics of the cine lenses. For my money, Canon L-glass lenses are second to none.

SerdarA
08-20-2011, 08:57 PM
Billy, that is an awesome list. I have used some of those lenses (Sony 85/1.4, Sony 50/1.4, Sony 24-70/2.8) both with a NEX-5 + LE-EA1 and a A850 dslr. You can check the reviews of those lenses and see how they stand up to comparable Nikon/Canon lenses at photozone.de (the Sony/Zeiss primes get nothing but praises, the zooms are not exceptional like the primes, but they are in the same league as the competition). Now a few heads ups:

- Sony will be releasing native E-mount Zeiss 24/1.7 and 50/1.8 in the next couple of days. Those two might be better options than the A-mount Zeiss 24/2 SSM and Sony 50/1.4. There is also a very cheap E-mount 30mm f/3.5 macro lens.

- Sony will be releasing an A-mount 16-50/2.8 SSM soon as well. That might be much cheaper option than the 16-35/2.8.

- The 24-70/2.8 SSM does AF with the NEX-5 and it should with the FS100, provided that the LE-EA1 firmware is updated (I was an early adopter and I had to flash both the NEX-5 and the LE-EA1 to get the lens to AF after the firmwares were released).

- I don't believe the Sony/Zeiss lenses have poor resale values, however the market for A-mount lenses are obviously much smaller than F or EF mount lenses and you won't be able to find used A-mount glass at bargain prices.

- All the Sony SSM lenses (16-35/2.8, 24/2, 24-70/2.8, 70-200/2.8, 70-400/4-5.6) should AF with FS100 (they do with NEX-5). The 35/1.4, 50/1.4, 85/1.4, and 135/1.8 will not AF, but you should be able to set the aperture from the camera. If LE-EA2 has AF motor as rumored, then it will AF with the primes as well.

- There is also the "value line" SAM lenses (30/2.8 macro, 35/1.8, 50/1.8 and 28-75/2.8) for A-mount. These are built as cheap as dirt but they do AF with the LE-EA1 and optically not bad. However, the focusing ring is very small in those lenses.

LiamR
08-21-2011, 04:48 AM
- Sony will be releasing native E-mount Zeiss 24/1.7 and 50/1.8 in the next couple of days. Those two might be better options than the A-mount Zeiss 24/2 SSM and Sony 50/1.4. There is also a very cheap E-mount 30mm f/3.5 macro lens.

Now im getting excited, where did you hear this, any more info on it, price, availability, etc..??

Chris Johnston
08-21-2011, 07:44 AM
^ +1

SerdarA
08-21-2011, 09:19 AM
You can read about Sony E-mount roadmap here:
http://www.talknex.com/f2/meet-new-sony-nex-lenses-zeiss-24-1-8-sony-50-1-8-55-210-4-5-6-3-a-34/

The Zeiss 24/1.8:
http://www.talknex.com/attachments/f2/19d1313247183-meet-new-sony-nex-lenses-zeiss-24-1-8-sony-50-1-8-55-210-4-5-6-3-lens1.jpg

Chris Johnston
08-21-2011, 09:50 AM
Strange. Not much talk about sigma or tamron potential offerings.

Duke M.
08-21-2011, 10:32 AM
And no talk about Nikon primes (even though they can be a lot faster at f1.4 for the 35, 50 and 85mm), nor the Nikon AF-S ED 17-35, 28-70 and 70-200 zooms.

They won't communicate electronically, but are certainly worth considering. Especially since they have aperture rings.

Chris Johnston
08-21-2011, 10:39 AM
yea, but nikon hasn't shown an interest in the emount, sigma, tamron and voitlander have....

billygraydon
08-21-2011, 12:58 PM
Billy, that is an awesome list. I have used some of those lenses (Sony 85/1.4, Sony 50/1.4, Sony 24-70/2.8) both with a NEX-5 + LE-EA1 and a A850 dslr. You can check the reviews of those lenses and see how they stand up to comparable Nikon/Canon lenses at photozone.de (the Sony/Zeiss primes get nothing but praises, the zooms are not exceptional like the primes, but they are in the same league as the competition). Now a few heads ups:

- Sony will be releasing native E-mount Zeiss 24/1.7 and 50/1.8 in the next couple of days. Those two might be better options than the A-mount Zeiss 24/2 SSM and Sony 50/1.4. There is also a very cheap E-mount 30mm f/3.5 macro lens.

- Sony will be releasing an A-mount 16-50/2.8 SSM soon as well. That might be much cheaper option than the 16-35/2.8.

- The 24-70/2.8 SSM does AF with the NEX-5 and it should with the FS100, provided that the LE-EA1 firmware is updated (I was an early adopter and I had to flash both the NEX-5 and the LE-EA1 to get the lens to AF after the firmwares were released).

- I don't believe the Sony/Zeiss lenses have poor resale values, however the market for A-mount lenses are obviously much smaller than F or EF mount lenses and you won't be able to find used A-mount glass at bargain prices.

- All the Sony SSM lenses (16-35/2.8, 24/2, 24-70/2.8, 70-200/2.8, 70-400/4-5.6) should AF with FS100 (they do with NEX-5). The 35/1.4, 50/1.4, 85/1.4, and 135/1.8 will not AF, but you should be able to set the aperture from the camera. If LE-EA2 has AF motor as rumored, then it will AF with the primes as well.

- There is also the "value line" SAM lenses (30/2.8 macro, 35/1.8, 50/1.8 and 28-75/2.8) for A-mount. These are built as cheap as dirt but they do AF with the LE-EA1 and optically not bad. However, the focusing ring is very small in those lenses.

Will I be able to adjust the aperture with these lenses and the LE-EA1 adapter?

Dermot
08-21-2011, 01:00 PM
And no talk about Nikon primes (even though they can be a lot faster at f1.4 for the 35, 50 and 85mm), nor the Nikon AF-S ED 17-35, 28-70 and 70-200 zooms.

They won't communicate electronically, but are certainly worth considering. Especially since they have aperture rings.
Are they internal focus?
I kinda NEED that as i use a matte box for holding ND's...
The Zeiss zooms are internal focus... forgot to mention that in the "PRO" side of things

I do have the 50 & 85 t1.4 Nikon's in my kit, but other than a low end Nikon 70-300 for the long end, i'm not using any Nikon zooms even tho i own them

SerdarA
08-21-2011, 02:41 PM
Will I be able to adjust the aperture with these lenses and the LE-EA1 adapter?
None of the A-mount lenses manufactured by Sony or Minolta have aperture rings and I believe the primary purpose of the LE-EA1, and why it is expensive compared to other adapters is because it has an internal motor that operates the aperture lever so that you can set the aperture from the E-mount body. It works perfectly well on my NEX-5 and I can set the aperture from the camera. Of course it is not solid confirmation that they will do the same with FS100, but I can't imagine why it wouldn't.

BTW, I am located in Gainesville, FL. I know it is quite far from Miami, but still if you are passing close by drop me a line and you can check out the functionality of the A-mount lenses I have (Sony 24-70/2.8, 85/1.4, 70-400/4-5.6, Sigma 50/1.4, and Tamron 180/3.5) with your FS100 (I don't have one) yourself.
-Serdar

Dermot
08-21-2011, 03:43 PM
None of the A-mount lenses manufactured by Sony or Minolta have aperture rings and I believe the primary purpose of the LE-EA1, and why it is expensive compared to other adapters is because it has an internal motor that operates the aperture lever so that you can set the aperture from the E-mount body. It works perfectly well on my NEX-5 and I can set the aperture from the camera. Of course it is not solid confirmation that they will do the same with FS100, but I can't imagine why it wouldn't.

-Serdar
It sorta works.. you can change the stops, but it switches to WFO between stops and makes huge racket while doing so... makes it impossiable to pull a stop while shooting... otherwise it works fine for stops,
no control for autotfocus - not that i would ever use it anyway,
no control for stablisation - not that i would ever use that either
I turned off both "auto" functions on my Ex1 when i got it years ago, and they are still in the "off" position ;-)

d

billygraydon
08-21-2011, 04:43 PM
None of the A-mount lenses manufactured by Sony or Minolta have aperture rings and I believe the primary purpose of the LE-EA1, and why it is expensive compared to other adapters is because it has an internal motor that operates the aperture lever so that you can set the aperture from the E-mount body. It works perfectly well on my NEX-5 and I can set the aperture from the camera. Of course it is not solid confirmation that they will do the same with FS100, but I can't imagine why it wouldn't.

BTW, I am located in Gainesville, FL. I know it is quite far from Miami, but still if you are passing close by drop me a line and you can check out the functionality of the A-mount lenses I have (Sony 24-70/2.8, 85/1.4, 70-400/4-5.6, Sigma 50/1.4, and Tamron 180/3.5) with your FS100 (I don't have one) yourself.
-Serdar

Thanks! That's great. I will def let you know. Now looking again I noticed you have both the 24-70 and the 85 1.4 How well do these match up with either other? That could be another beginning possibility for my first lens kit. What do you think?

SerdarA
08-21-2011, 07:36 PM
First I must mention that my interest in primarily on the stills side and I came across this site to see if I can find reasonably priced Leica M glass for my NEX-5 and decided to create an account and post in this particular thread because I thought I have some experience with some of the glass you are interested in. My interest in video is very limited unlike my interest in both A and E-mount lenses.

On a full-frame stills camera like the A850 those two make perfect sense. The 24-70/2.8 goes from ultra wide to portrait range while the 85/1.4 excels at portraits. Both lenses are extremely sharp wide open and the 85/1.4 has a beautiful bokeh. On NEX-5 which has a similar sized sensor to FS100, the 24-70/2.8 loses its ultra wide characteristic.

Sony will announce an A-mount 16-50/2.8 (on August 24 with mid-October availability priced much less than $1000) which is supposed to be video optimized, which may address the issue Dermot mentioned above with the aperture opening wide first before stopping down. I think this would be an ideal substitute for both the 16-35/2.8 and 24-70/2.8 together on a crop sensor like S35. My suggestion would be pairing 16-50/2.8 with 85/1.4. In any case, i would suggest waiting for August 24 to see what Sony announces. If you can't wait till the new lenses are available, 24-70/2.8 should serve you well as a general purpose lens and you can add 85/1.4 later if you decide to do so. For the rumors and info about the new gear, you can check sonyalpharumors.com .

Dermot: What is the firmware version on the LE-EA1 adapter itself? It should be ver.02 to support AF. Also, none of the Sony A-mount lenses have image stabilization as the A-mount camera bodies have sensor based image stabilization.

Dermot
08-21-2011, 08:02 PM
That update only applies to the stills camera's - unfortuantly for the folks who shoot R-n-G or steadaycam and prefer to use the autofocus in return for it choseing somewhat randomly what it thinks i want in focus....

Chris Johnston
08-22-2011, 07:42 AM
That update only applies to the stills camera's - unfortuantly for the folks who shoot R-n-G or steadaycam and prefer to use the autofocus in return for it choseing somewhat randomly what it thinks i want in focus....

Stills only? http://www.steves-digicams.com/news/sony_nex-vg10_and_la-ea1_firmware_updates_allow_the_use_of_autofocus_wi th_certain_a-mount_lenses.html

Dermot
08-22-2011, 07:46 AM
Stills only? http://www.steves-digicams.com/news/sony_nex-vg10_and_la-ea1_firmware_updates_allow_the_use_of_autofocus_wi th_certain_a-mount_lenses.html
point taken, but still does not apply to the FS

Chris Johnston
08-22-2011, 09:23 AM
point taken, but still does not apply to the FS

My point was that the firmware update is for the adapter, NOT the camera it's attached to. (although to update the adapter you must also update the device it's attached to so they "talk" adequately)
They started with the -3 and -5 and then the C3, then the VG10......is the fs100 next to get the upgrade path? (I would suppose so, IF Sony considers the FS100 "lo end" enough) but sony is clearly doing
everything they can to make the e-mount work with as many lens' as possible (with as much functionality as possible) and trying to get lens manufacturers to produce for the e- mount.

morgan_moore
08-22-2011, 09:55 AM
another blast with the kit lens


http://vimeo.com/28015947

eheath
10-17-2011, 12:48 AM
has anyone used a zeiss zf 50mm 1.4 yet? found a good deal and thinking about replacing my old nikon 50mm 1.4 nonai. ive heard they have the same optics as the cp2's in a less friendly housing.

nomad-3
10-17-2011, 09:07 AM
That's correct, the CP.2's are just 'cinefied' ZF's.

eheath
10-17-2011, 09:36 AM
That's correct, the CP.2's are just 'cinefied' ZF's.

but aren't zfs made by cosina in japan and cp2s are made in germany?

nomad-3
10-17-2011, 11:11 AM
Let's say "close co-operation" …

eheath
10-17-2011, 11:13 AM
well im trying to decide if i wanna buy a zf 50mm or spend less on a nikon 50mm ais

Searcher
10-17-2011, 05:38 PM
It says in your gear list you already have the Nikon 50mm 1.4? Is that not the AIS 1.4? You can't go wrong with the Nikon 1.4. Buy it and use it. If it's not good enough, sell it. You wont sell it...

edit: Sorry, somehow I thought this was a new thread starting with your post...

nomad-3
10-18-2011, 01:43 AM
The only problem with Nikon is the reverse focus. If you have a reversible gearbox and use only FF, that's OK, but if you focus directly, it can drive you mad…