PDA

View Full Version : First tests: it's not THAT sensitive



moldcad
08-16-2011, 07:40 AM
So, finally I've got the FS100EK - for testing till Thursday, but it will most probably stay :)

I'll post my impressions later, but now would like to say this:

- when I was speculating about using this camera with primes at F1.4, some people reacted strangely with the "why would you need such wide aperture on a camera that sensitive" kind of questions. But today I did my first test shoots indoors, with a quite cloudy sky outside the window and of course no additional light, and believe me: even with my Canon FD 50mm/F1.4 still lens, I had to crank gain up to 18 dB! Thankfully, the camera is virtually noise-free as you know, but I was astonished - people made be prepared for not opening above F5.6 without an ND filter...

Is it normal? I mean, have my expectations re: the FS100 sensitivity been too high, or is my unit faulty?

Piotr

mico
08-16-2011, 07:57 AM
The camera is 500 asa at 0db. Its not going to see in the darkness indoors on a cloudy day. I think peoples enthusiasm stems from the ability to use noise free gain for the first time. In the smaller chip days we never ever thought about using gain unless we absolutely had no choice. This camera allows most of us for the first time to use gain without a penalty. You have to change your way of thinking regarding gain. 18db , the limit for me, with a fast lens can make darkness into light.

moldcad
08-16-2011, 08:07 AM
Exactly my thoughts, mico. This is why I always believed the true potential of this camera will manifest itself with really fast lens - at F1.4, you really get some shallow DOF! And this is why I was skeptical about the types of comments I mentioned above...

So, the beauty is in two things (apart of course from the S35 kind of DOF):

- ability to use high gains when needed, without that ugly noise that I was fighting against with my EX1
- ability to get away with aperture closed down to some F16, without being afraid of diffraction softness

Dermot
08-16-2011, 08:53 AM
With AbleCine's "Technicolor" settings, and correct handeling in post i'm setting my lightmeter @ 800, i set to 500 when tested with the stock setting, but i do not use that.

i see the FS at about a stop faster than my EX1 & 3 when i have them side by side

d

morgan_moore
08-16-2011, 09:30 AM
Ive had ND indoors no light

Maybe you have the shutter speed on 1/2000th or something !

S

DC EX1
08-16-2011, 09:45 AM
I bought a cheap used knock off brand (vivitar) nikon 70-210mm f3.5 for $35 and with the FS100 it basically make it's comparable to the nikon brand 70-200mm f2.8... without spending the $600-1000 it would take for the brand name and speed... that's not to say the nikon 2.8 isn't better glass, it is, alls I'm saying is the 3.5 cheapy just got a little faster at iso 500 and for $35, I mean, jeez, that's cheaper than the UV filter on the 2.8.

FS100 is plenty fast and light efficient for what you're paying for it... and slower lenses get a little extra love too.

moldcad
08-16-2011, 09:54 AM
i see the FS at about a stop faster than my EX1 & 3 when i have them side by side

d

Exactly - perhaps a stop and a half, but not more. Listening to some people's comments, I was expecting the difference to be much greater.

This is not to say I don't like the FS100 - to the contrary; as I stated above, the freedom of operating gain and aperture (both ways - depending on the need) is just sweet. With the EX1, I almost feel physical pain when I must gain above 3 dB in low light, or - in the full sunshine - need to engage NDs during the take, out of the fear of diffraction softness induced by closing down too much (like below F5.6)...

moldcad
08-16-2011, 09:57 AM
I bought a cheap used knock off brand (vivitar) nikon 70-210mm f3.5 for $35 and with the FS100 it basically make it's comparable to the nikon brand 70-200mm f2.8... without spending the $600-1000 it would take for the brand name and speed... that's not to say the nikon 2.8 isn't better glass, it is, alls I'm saying is the 3.5 cheapy just got a little faster at iso 500 and for $35, I mean, jeez, that's cheaper than the UV filter on the 2.8.

FS100 is plenty fast and light efficient for what you're paying for it... and slower lenses get a little extra love too.

I hear what you're saying - my still lenses (Canon FDs) were also bought on eBay, and all of them being fast (1.4 - 1.8), none cost me more than Euro 20 :)

Plus, I find the stock zoom to be much better than some people reported earlier on (again)!

DC EX1
08-16-2011, 10:04 AM
I hear what you're saying - my still lenses (Canon FDs) were also bought on eBay, and all of them being fast (1.4 - 1.8), none cost me more than Euro 20 :)

Plus, I find the stock zoom to be much better than some people reported earlier on (again)!

Never got the stock zoom but from what I see from tests online, it's pretty solid for the price... I'm just looking at the sensitivity of the FS100 from a purely aesthetic view, I haven't run tests, nor do I really care about a lot of the math behind it... for the situations I've run into thus far, extremely low light concerts, night shoots and cloudy days, the sensor has stood its ground and delivered a great image... one thing I don't like is the mirror effect it has with strong light, but once better e mount adapters come out that shouldn't be as much of a problem, we all have our gripes.

check out keh.com for sweet used cheap glass for the fs100... I buy all my used glass on there, even picked up the canon 85mm 1.2L for 1300 in excellent condition... doesn't work with fs100 yet, but soon hopefully!

starcentral
08-17-2011, 11:36 AM
... even with my Canon FD 50mm/F1.4 still lens, I had to crank gain up to 18 dB! Thankfully, the camera is virtually noise-free as you know, but I was astonished - people made be prepared for not opening above F5.6 without an ND filter...

Have you done any more tests? I find it impossible to need 18db gain indoors on sunny day at f1.4. Indoors on mid afternoon day I'm able to shoot f2.8 on the Canon FD 50mm and going through a 35mm adapter to a HPX170.....

jetswing
08-17-2011, 12:14 PM
Yeah, it must be some dark house. I'm currently in a room with only lights coming from barely cracked open blinds. I'm barely getting 3db at f/2.8

starcentral
08-17-2011, 12:16 PM
This links says it all, http://vimeo.com/27527410

Postmaster
08-17-2011, 12:20 PM
Is it normal? I mean, have my expectations re: the FS100 sensitivity been too high, or is my unit faulty?

Piotr

Have you seen my low light test Piotr?


http://vimeo.com/27603076

And this was shot with the super slow kit lens. Try that with any other camera.

Frank

jdv
08-17-2011, 12:25 PM
Have you done any more tests? I find it impossible to need 18db gain indoors on sunny day at f1.4. Indoors on mid afternoon day I'm able to shoot f2.8 on the Canon FD 50mm and going through a 35mm adapter to a HPX170.....

Man, that's exactly what I thought. Hell, even a T2i with the kit lens shoots my living room without having to add gain. Is it possible he got a bad unit?

eheath
08-17-2011, 12:37 PM
Man, that's exactly what I thought. Hell, even a T2i with the kit lens shoots my living room without having to add gain. Is it possible he got a bad unit?

Everyone's living room is lighted differently. I think a way to test if his camera is faulty is to get another camera in there and test it out. I never have to use gain inside my house during the day, but i have alot of windows and even with the blinds closed, alot of light comes in. In a room with one window that isn't very bright and a weak inside light, you definitely would need to bump up the gain.

cheezweezl
08-17-2011, 12:54 PM
i think it IS, THAT sensitive. "THAT" meaning more sensitive than any other camera out there in terms of usable footage in low light.... what is 30db in terms of ISO? something like 16000? and that footage is workable.

NeedCreative
08-19-2011, 06:32 AM
30db is around 25,600 ISO (I think). I find sometimes I need ND indoors, with basic office lighting, if shooting wide open at say F2 at 0db. My 60D needed to be at ISO 1600 to get the same shot with all its noise.

I find the FS100 is actually too sensitive at times.

starcentral
08-19-2011, 07:58 AM
moldcat did you figure out the issue? I suggest you take camera back to store... on the other hand maybe you are lucky and got one with build in ND filters :D

moldcad
08-19-2011, 08:36 AM
I was already hoping nobody would ask, because the answer is embarrassing :)

But since you are asking, why not give you a reason to some good laugh, guys: it turned out I didn't properly screw my FD lens onto the adapter ring, and its iris only half-opened even though the iris ring was at the F1.4 stop position...

So, the updated message is this: the FS100 is a brilliant camera, and it's going to stay in my arsenal as an excellent addition to my work-horse EX1.

Piotr

PS Oh, and while it's very sensitive & clean, I'll stick to it that it's not too sensitive at all - especially with my Heliopan filter.

LiamR
08-19-2011, 09:43 AM
30db is around 25,600 ISO (I think). I find sometimes I need ND indoors, with basic office lighting, if shooting wide open at say F2 at 0db. My 60D needed to be at ISO 1600 to get the same shot with all its noise.

I find the FS100 is actually too sensitive at times.

I think you'll find its 16000 not 25,600

http://nofilmschool.com/2011/05/the-sony-fs100-goes-up-to-16000-iso/

This camera is definitely not too sensitive, just needs ND filters.

starcentral
08-19-2011, 10:20 AM
moldcat, which adapter you using? does it have one of those nubs to activate the iris lever on FD lenses?

moldcad
08-20-2011, 03:07 AM
The adapter I'm using is the cheapest one from eBay (just $20 with free shipping). I had bought it in advance because I wanted to have one ready for my FS100 testing period, and - should I decide not to keep the camera - didn't want to spend too much on an adapter I wouldn't need.

But of course it does have the iris lever stop pin; it's just that putting one of my FD lenses on it for the first time, I didn't pay enough attention to properly twist it full way.

BTW, I read that even more expensive FD adapters (like the $200 Novoflex) can have problems with stray light internal reflections, mirror effects etc.; I'll only have to test mine in various situations to decide whether it's good enough - otherwise, I'll replace it with something more serious.

Is there a consensus on this forum regarding the best FD->NEX adapter money can buy? And no, I don't need those fancy ones with internal iris - for exposure control, I already have my Heliopan Vario ND filter :)

derrick
08-20-2011, 08:20 AM
I shot in a nightclub environment to see how it handled low light and strobes, I had my camera Picture Profile setting with a high saturation to see how it would handle the strobes at 15db, with the shutter speed at 60, I shot with the 50mm f1.2L lens, and the sigma 30mm 1.4 lens, in little to no light the images were very nice, but as soon as the strobes started going of you could see a lot of bleeding in the reds and yellows, went home adjusted my Picture Profile Making the colors a little bit flatter,, shot last night with the same lenses, with different gains, 6db and shutter 30, and loved the results, still needs to be tweeted little bit more but over all after shooting with the ex3 , 5Dm2, and 7D, the images looks more sharp, also I like the way the 7D handles the low lights better than the 5D, so each camera to me has it's use in different situations, Except the ex3, never liked the image it produced,

Rick Burnett
08-21-2011, 08:30 PM
I think the FS100 has 2 things going for low light. 1) Natively it is more sensitive. Not a HUGE amount, but maybe a stop and a half. But the second thing is the noise. You can REALLY get a lot more gain usage without as much noise as you'd see on many other cameras. That is what amazed me the most. That's why for low light, compared to my 7D or the AF100 I had for a bit, the FS100 dominated.

NeedCreative
08-25-2011, 09:21 AM
I think you'll find its 16000 not 25,600

http://nofilmschool.com/2011/05/the-sony-fs100-goes-up-to-16000-iso/

This camera is definitely not too sensitive, just needs ND filters.

Thanks I couldn't rememebr exactly. And when I say "too" sensitive I mean I shouldn't have to need ND filters in a normal office setting, but that's mostly a peeve than a complaint; using fast glass and a sensitive camera this is just to be expected.

BlackWolf
08-25-2011, 10:35 PM
I shot in a nightclub environment to see how it handled low light and strobes, I had my camera Picture Profile setting with a high saturation to see how it would handle the strobes at 15db, with the shutter speed at 60, I shot with the 50mm f1.2L lens, and the sigma 30mm 1.4 lens, in little to no light the images were very nice, but as soon as the strobes started going of you could see a lot of bleeding in the reds and yellows, went home adjusted my Picture Profile Making the colors a little bit flatter,, shot last night with the same lenses, with different gains, 6db and shutter 30, and loved the results, still needs to be tweeted little bit more but over all after shooting with the ex3 , 5Dm2, and 7D, the images looks more sharp, also I like the way the 7D handles the low lights better than the 5D, so each camera to me has it's use in different situations, Except the ex3, never liked the image it produced,

F1.2? Would love to see what that lens produces on the FS100.

Now if only someone could get a hold of this cine-mount lens and mount it onto their FS100. :D

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6136/5990324746_955b7677cc_z_d.jpg

David G. Smith
08-25-2011, 11:16 PM
Kind of irrelevant but Vivitar isn't a knock off brand. Actually is a really good brand in photography. :P

I am actually becoming a fan of Vivitar lenses. I picked up a 70-210 Series 1 Vivitar zoom (Kiron), with a Minolta MD mount, very cheap (under $30) and shot some test footage with it on the FS100. I was actually blown away with the images. VERY, VERY sharp, with excellent color and contrast. I just bought a 28-105mm f2.8-3.8 Series 1 zoom, with a Nikon F mount. It is a Cosina manufactured lens. I have not received it in the mail yet, but I have high hopes for the lens and hope to adapt it as my uber guerilla run and gun lens. The Vivitar lenses were considered break through designs and not cheap when they were introduced. If the 28-105 looks anywhere near as good as the 70-210 I have, I will be very pleased.

Postmaster
08-26-2011, 01:15 AM
+1 for the Series 1 Vivitars, they are amazing and some of the most overlooked glass out there.

Frank