Vegas support - pressure Sony, Panny, MC or all?

[stephenvv]

Vegas 5 and now 6 used the Main Concept DVCPro codec, however it notably does not support DVCPro-HD.

As a long-time Vegas user, I don't want to switch NLE's once I get an HVX200 (assuming it delivers most of what's on paper).

However, I can get no official statement from Sony, Panasonic or Main Concept about support in Vegas when the camera ships.

Anything dvxuser.com can/should do to help this process on?

[braw]

I'm a huge fan of Vegas as well. I got the email to a developer from Sonic Foundry...ie Sony Pictures from a friend in Madison WI, where Sonic Foundry was and is as Sony. I emailed him a decent email pleaing for them to support it by the time the camera comes out. I pointed him to this forum and explained how there's a fair user base here.

Hopefully this helps, I haven't heard back yet.

[Barry_S]

Email both Panasonic and Sony--they both have to cooperate to make this happen.

[Barry_Green]

There's a currently-running thread on the Sony Vegas forum asking for exactly this. However, the response has been decidedly mixed.

The only official Sony response so far has been -- if you find someone else with a third-party capture application, and somebody else with a third-party codec, then yes, it could work right now.

Doesn't sound too promising. I'm hoping they'll re-evaluate as things draw closer to 4Q.

[stephenvv]

There's a currently-running thread on the Sony Vegas forum asking for exactly this. However, the response has been decidedly mixed.

The only official Sony response so far has been -- if you find someone else with a third-party capture application, and somebody else with a third-party codec, then yes, it could work right now.

Doesn't sound too promising. I'm hoping they'll re-evaluate as things draw closer to 4Q.
Well, let me ask the question? If Panasonic supplied us (as in dvxuser.com) with some codec or SDK for a codec, maybe we have some developer skills/contacts here ourself and we become the "third party" developer. I still work some part-time in the IT field, although not a coder. If dvxuser sold it for $100 or $150 bucks, that would rock.

Maybe a crazy idea, but then again maybe not.

[stephenvv]

There's a currently-running thread on the Sony Vegas forum asking for exactly this. However, the response has been decidedly mixed.

The only official Sony response so far has been -- if you find someone else with a third-party capture application, and somebody else with a third-party codec, then yes, it could work right now.

Doesn't sound too promising. I'm hoping they'll re-evaluate as things draw closer to 4Q.
Well, let me ask the question? If Panasonic supplied us (as in dvxuser.com) with some codec or SDK for a codec, maybe we have some developer skills/contacts here ourself and we become the "third party" developer. I still work some part-time in the IT field, although not a coder. But just writing a simple capture app and codec wrapper, assuming we could get the codec code from Panny might not be impossible.

If dvxuser sold it for $100 or $150 bucks, that would rock.

Maybe a crazy idea, :shocked: but then again maybe not. :grin:

[alpi69]

same for liquid edition. they only include the DVCPro 50 codec in the broadcast version ($ 1000) and the HD codec in Chrome ($ 3000). these upgrades are very pricey. if you ask me Panasonic even surprised these companies by bringing the pricetag down so low so quick. they will need to decide (and find out by marketresearch) if the users are willing to jump to a NLE like FinalCutHD or if they pay extra bucks for the codecs and how much.

if they cannot follow trends i myself will follow those that do. if it means buying an apple? probably will then. i am very very happy with Liquid Edition, but if the new owner AVID turns out greedy then i will gladly try something new......

[thisiswells]

Well, it isn't greed that fuels a software developer to target different quality/price points in their software.
In the beginning there wasn't DV, there was only big mamma broadcast and DV changed that.
It is reasonable for a developer to think, "well they paid more for a camera and a tape deck, why
should we cut them a deal on software?" That is totally and in all other ways reasonable.

The only difference in Apple is they make hardware and software and they're only in the software
business to keep selling hardware. So, they don't really seem to care much if their HD system
is X amount of dollars less than Avid or Pinnacle. It simply doesn't matter. So, they make it cheap.
They know the mac hardware needs some kind of incentive, so they've made really
affordable software.. and it appears that is a level that other software companies simply cannot
compete. Sony isn't going to limit Vegas to Vaio hardware... Pinnacle can't limit their software
to only Pinnacle branded computers.. Basically the high-end market is where these (comparitively)
small software boutiques make their muchacha and if they discount it to the point of no holes
barred HD for under a grand, then they won't be making ends meet. That really is unfortunate.
Thing is we need competition to keep the price of FinalCutPro down. If everyone else is out of
the video software biz, then Apple doesn't have to discount soooo much like they do these days.
Everyone here knows I'm on Mac, but I really don't think it's the only system for every need.

Ok. enough mindless chit chat.. meh.

[thisiswells]

It is in these delirious times I am more convinced now than ever that Apple made a wise move
when they bought the FinalCutPro project from Macromedia before it ever reached the light of day.

Otherwise, who knows... maybe would have been a dual platform? And, a whole lot more pricey.

[Barry_Green]

Finding someone to write their own codec seems like a brilliant idea. I mean, let's recruit Satish -- he's the *master* Vegas plug-in writer, he's absolutely brilliant, and he even donates his programs for free.

From what I understand (and I'm a long-retired programmer), the DV codec specs are possibly even in the public domain. DVCPRO50 and DVCPRO-HD are Panasonic modifications to the original, but from all that I've ever heard it described, it's primarily two or four DV codecs ganged together.

Now, I'm afraid to say this, because it makes me grit my teeth whenever anyone else says it, but: "how hard can it be?" :)

I think I'll drop Satish a note and see if he'd be interested in the project. If not him, I bet Graeme Nattress could suss it out for us very quickly, although we'd still need a skilled PC-based programmer (Graeme's on the Mac, and there's not a whole lot of call for a new DVCPRO-HD codec on the mac, seeing as FCP comes with one included).

[alpi69]

i don´t think you can simply install a driver on a system and expect a editing software to work with it. you can view stuff with mediaplayer or quicktime, but Liquid for example reqires a hardware dongle to work in 4:2:2 DVCPro50 for example. same goes for AVID i guess.

[scharky]

I'm actually thinking I might take the plunge over to avid. As I am a student right now it is within my pricerange (academic version) and I can always upgrade later if I wanted to use it professionally. I think it is just something good to learn so that I can say "yes I can cut on avid". Plus it already has support for DVCPro50 and HD, so when the time comes for the HVX I will already have some experience with it and can just start editing away, instead of waiting to see what Vegas is going to be doing. Don't get me wrong, I will still be using vegas, it's still my fav, but I think with the situation I'm in right now, getting as much experience as possible with as many programs as possible is key.

[stephenvv]

Finding someone to write their own codec seems like a brilliant idea. I mean, let's recruit Satish -- he's the *master* Vegas plug-in writer, he's absolutely brilliant, and he even donates his programs for free.

From what I understand (and I'm a long-retired programmer), the DV codec specs are possibly even in the public domain. DVCPRO50 and DVCPRO-HD are Panasonic modifications to the original, but from all that I've ever heard it described, it's primarily two or four DV codecs ganged together.

Now, I'm afraid to say this, because it makes me grit my teeth whenever anyone else says it, but: "how hard can it be?" :)

I think I'll drop Satish a note and see if he'd be interested in the project. If not him, I bet Graeme Nattress could suss it out for us very quickly, although we'd still need a skilled PC-based programmer (Graeme's on the Mac, and there's not a whole lot of call for a new DVCPRO-HD codec on the mac, seeing as FCP comes with one included).
Cool - I agree, it is very worth investigating and I'm sure many Vegas users like myself would pay for it.

[NoahK]

I'd advise to be semi-careful here. The only way to make a new DVCPRO HD codec work natively would be through reverse engineering and I'd suspect you'd be in violation of Panasonic's licensing agreements. Apple and Avid pay serious $ to be natively compatible with DVCPRO HD.

[stephenvv]

I'm not talking about reverse engineering - I'm talking about Panny giving their SDK with code since I'm sure they want as many NLE users out there as possible able to edit DVCPro-HD.

[DinosaurInc]

I wonder if any of the business politics come into play regarding this? Sony and Pana (Matsu) have both participated in format wars in the past (and presently with Toshiba over Blu-Ray and/or HD-DVD), I wonder if they will endorse some new technology developed by themselves and try to nudge Pana? Do any Sony camera record DVCproHD--I don't recall, but then again, I have no idea with upper level cams.

[Mr. Blonde]

Forget the amateur Vegas NLE, adopt the industry standard, Avid!

[galt]

I don't understand how a third party capture soluiton will even work. Remember, this thing is putting out files on P2 or HDD, there is NO CAPTURE !!! PLug and Cut !!!

[stephenvv]

I don't understand how a third party capture soluiton will even work. Remember, this thing is putting out files on P2 or HDD, there is NO CAPTURE !!! PLug and Cut !!!
The "capture" app will probably just be a file conversion util...

[mthornton]

Main Concept DVCPro codec is NOT in a 4:2:2 color sample codec and compression is higher too.

Be weary weary careful wasco wabbits!

Mthornton

[Barry_Green]

Their DVCPRO codec is 4:1:1 at 5:1, yes. But their DVCPRO50 codec most definitely operates in 4:2:2 with lower compression. I've downloaded and tested it, it seems to work well (and within Vegas), although I haven't really tried to push it. It's much slower rendering, but I would expect that seeing as it's working with files that are twice as large. If they produce a DVCPRO-HD codec, and it's a quality codec, this might be enough of a solution. Between that and the Firestore file converter, that may be all you need to get Vegas working with DVCPRO-HD.

So yes, nag MainConcept -- they seem to be the best bet so far.