B and H price list

[bilgami]

BiLGaMi Video Productions :beer:

Why does B&H list the 200 for nearly 10 grand?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=WishList.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=381410&is=REG


bilgami@hotmail.com
http://www.bilgamivideo.com (http://www.bilgamivideo.com/)

[Haakon]

It's probably the bundle that comes with two 8GB P2 cards. Or perhaps they're creating a presales list for the earliest adopters that will pay anything to get it first. Of course, it could just be an erroneous listing... the camera doesn't come out for months...

[gcaus]

two 8GB P2 cards? I thought it was 2 2GB P2 cards...

-Jerry

[Barry_Green]

The $9995 bundle includes two 8gb cards. Reports about it including 2gb cards are erroneous.

[evinsky]

I thought there was a P2 price drop announced already. Shouldn't this be a $9300 bundle? Somewhere I read a $1700 price for an 8 gig card.

[Barry_Green]

4gb cards are $1700. 8gb cards are $2500.

[Gary_McClurg]

Are you sure Barry. I thought I read that the 8 gig cards where also going down to $1,700?

[Barry_Green]

By the time the camera comes out, actual pricing will be known, but until then, it's completely speculative. The 8gb cards don't even exist yet, and won't exist until August.

What Panasonic has said is that a 4gb card now costs what a 2gb card used to cost last year. Extrapolating forward is probably where people are getting the $1700 idea. I don't recall seeing or hearing anyone say anything about the 8gb card costing $1700.

But if the cards are cheaper by the time the camera's announced, you can certainly expect the bundle price to be adjusted accordingly. However, I don't expect that they will be. I expect the 8gb to be $2500 when the camera's released.

[David Jimerson]

Panasonic reps at NAB said they're "targeting" $2495 for an 8GB card upon release. I heard that number more than once.

[galt]

EVen more important B&H is closed for passover. They probably put this page up before the NAB announcement, and are not going to be back to update it until May 2nd at the earliest.

[Mediacre]

$2500 for a 8Gb P2?

Man, that buys you 100 minutes of 35mm film including processing.

P2 better come down fast. I know the more times you use it the cheaper it gets, but it's a huge up front investment now.
Firestore, please save us!

[Gary_McClurg]

Gee, let me know where I can buy 100 minutes of 35mm film including processing for $2,500 and I'll shoot film every time.

10,000 x .30 for short end prices = $3,000
lab x .13 including prep = $,1,300

now if you're talking 100 foot short end loads at .12 a foot maybe.
But you better have a lot of mags on set or a couple of super fast loaders.

[Mediacre]

I'm talking about Fuji 500T Color Negative , 400' rolls, $0.40 per foot.
Processing $0.195 per foot

Do the math.

[Sirius_Doggy]

$2500 for a 8Gb P2?

Man, that buys you 100 minutes of 35mm film including processing.


Yeh - ONCE - The P2's are reusable. Last time I checked you can't reuse film..... :grin:
You're not comparing apples to apples.......
Film is like gaff tape - an expendable that's replaced
P2 cards are like camera lenses... you don't replace it for each project.

[Mediacre]

Yeh - ONCE - The P2's are reusable. Last time I checked you can't reuse film..... :grin:
You're not comparing apples to apples.......
Film is like gaff tape - an expendable that's replaced
P2 cards are like camera lenses... you don't replace it for each project.

Allow me to quote myself form the above post:




P2 better come down fast. I know the more times you use it the cheaper it gets, but it's a huge up front investment now.


:grin: :grin: :grin:

[Ralph Oshiro]

I thought there was a P2 price drop announced already. Shouldn't this be a $9300 bundle? Somewhere I read a $1700 price for an 8 gig card.
Speaking to a Panasonic rep at the NAB booth, when asked how much the 8GB P2 cards will be, he said, "$1,400." This, I assume, is an estimate of what the price MAY shake out to be by the time the camera is released.

[Gary_McClurg]

Do the math. Okay.

1,000 foot load equals give or take 10 minutes of 35mm film.
So we meed 10 1000' footers which equals 10,000 feet.
10,000 feet times .40 cents (your Fuji price) = $4,000

I'm not trying to be smart here. But lab process 35mm for 2 cents a foot. Let me know where. And I'll use them the next time I shoot 35mm.

Unless you really mean 20 cents a foot. So had another $2.000 bucks for lab work (not sure if your throwing in going to beta cam for editing or not).

If your thinking a 400' foot load equals 10 minutes yes it does in 16mm not 35mm.

[David Jimerson]

Speaking to a Panasonic rep at the NAB booth, when asked how much the 8GB P2 cards will be, he said, "$1,400." This, I assume, is an estimate of what the price MAY shake out to be by the time the camera is released.

I was told $2495 twice, and I actually have some video of that being said. Are you sure that price wasn't for 4GB card?

[Gary_McClurg]

I never have luck using the search, but someone who has luck maybe they can try a search. I know I'm repeating myself but I read somewhere that the cards where going to be $1,700.

But I could have gotten that wrong. Like Barry says from someone figuring the price drop on the 4g. Then trying to guess if the 8g will be lower when it hits the market also.

[Mediacre]

Film runs at 24 fps which = 7.2 inches/sec (40 frames/foot).

[Barry_Green]

I'm talking about Fuji 500T Color Negative , 400' rolls, $0.40 per foot.
Processing $0.195 per foot

Do the math.
Okay. I did the math. By your numbers, it's $5500.

16mm film runs at 36 feet per minute. But 35mm film runs at 90 feet per minute. So for 100 minutes you need 9,000 feet of film.

A 400' load gets you about 4:30 of runtime, so you'd need about 23 loads to get 100 minutes.

At 40c for stock and 20c for processing, that's 60c per foot, x 400', =$240 per load. $240 x 23 = about $5500.

[Ralph Oshiro]

I was told $2495 twice, and I actually have some video of that being said. Are you sure that price wasn't for 4GB card?
Yup, I asked him specifically, "How much will the 8GB card cost?" And he said, "$1,400." He may have misspoken, but I really think he's guessing at what memory prices MAY be by that time (Q4).

[thisiswells]

not that I really want to be in this convo, but if mediacre meant 3perf Super35(really doubt it), the costs would be about 30% less, but of course only useful for video release... the topic of actual costs to shoot any kind of film for any kind of release are many times higher than any of the figures presented and really more than i could imagine. sooo many i-never-thought-about-thats when working in film without a healthy dose of experience in the medium. clearly i lack a lifetime of experience, but i'll agree with anyone who tells me i have no business quoting numbers for film aquisition.

[thisiswells]

I was told $2495 twice, and I actually have some video of that being said.

David,
That's intense, man. Good idea. I was told (as I'm sure many have read/repeated/hypothesized/rumored/conjectured) the cam and two 8Giggers would have a list price of 9995, clearly followed by the statement, "and that is not indicative of the price of the individual 8GB cards" So, the idea was if you buy the camera for 5995, you get just the camera. Buy the package for 9995, you get the whole mishpocha. Wanna extra 8Gigger? Probably be more than 2K since it's not part of the special pricing deal with the camera. What you're saying totally lines up with what they told me at the show. Thanks for getting them on candid camera : )

brian wells

[insanityfw]

Unless this is a fake story it sets the 8gig at $1700 which I noted before in another post, which is where somebody might have read it the first time.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonics-P2-Format-Explained.htm

[Barry_Green]

Yup, I asked him specifically, "How much will the 8GB card cost?" And he said, "$1,400." He may have misspoken, but I really think he's guessing at what memory prices MAY be by that time (Q4).
The problem with that theory is -- the 8GB card isn't even going to exist until basically 4Q 2005.

The 8gb card is going to be $2500. That much they know. It's been confirmed. It's not like it's $2500 now and they're guessing it'll drop to $1400. It's that it doesn't even exist now, and by the time it gets introduced the price will be down to $2500.

[Mediacre]

It seems I got confused between 35mm and 16mm. Ok , $2500 buys you 45min or 35mm and 100min of super16 including processing. Both are superior to HD anyways. Specially from 1/3" chips. How long those 2 8Gb records in 108024P?

Anyway, that was only an analogy as to how expensive P2 is those days. Nothing else.

[Jan_Crittenden]

Speaking to a Panasonic rep at the NAB booth, when asked how much the 8GB P2 cards will be, he said, "$1,400." This, I assume, is an estimate of what the price MAY shake out to be by the time the camera is released.

The 4 GB may be $1400 by this fall, but the 8 GB is not even out yet. Two will be bundled with the camera for $9995. The cards might be higher than $2000 each, I do not know, but the camera will be on the street for $9995 with 2 8GB cards. But they will come down in price like the 4Gb card has. The 4GB card started @ $2000, is currently $1700. The 2GB card started @$2000, is currently $900. Memory prices are not set in stone.

Hope that helps,

Jan

[xray]

It makes no sense to compare the price of P2 memory cards with film. Why would you? If you want to shoot a story where you can make a choice between film- or videocamera at least you want to be able to use different full manual lenses. P2 is just memory. Film is emulsion, with a lot of variation.

[ddh]

P2 cards are going to be expensive at the beginning and will come down to a reasonable price within a year or 2. Let's hope for more variety in medium. I agree Firestore to the rescue!!!

[thisiswells]

$2500 buys you 45min or 35mm and 100min of super16 including processing. Both are superior to HD anyways. Specially from 1/3" chips. How long those 2 8Gb records in 108024P?

I don't know what you mean both are superior to HD. I don't really. And, are you familiar with film workflow? Processing doesn't get you anywhere. It's not like you can go directly to a projector and watch it, well not with 500T anyway... and you wouldn't have a tape to offline it without a telecine or online with a DI. So, I don't see what your point is.. Maybe that 100 minutes of 16mm aquisition and processing is about the same price as a P2 card.. that still has the strong implication that you could actually shoot an entire movie and be prepared for post production on a 2500 budget and is sooo far fetched. If that's been the case in your experience, then there isn't much point in discussing this any further as you've obviously found a better way to shoot film than everyone else on planet earth when it comes to processing and telecine. A good rule of thumb for 16mm is about .75/foot for stock, proc, telecine to BetaSP averaged out over a 1200 foot minimum. There is no economy of scale; doesn't get cheaper... Just that there are certain minimums the lab needs to have before they'll process film. The costs for shooting a movie on 16mm are exponentially higher than 2500, even for aquisition costs... There's nothing you can do period with 500T without a transfer to tape or a print. You can't watch it and you can't edit it... So, I don't really see what you're getting at, okay.

EDIT: I am not trying to antagonize you or make you feel dumb, mediacare, but the point is it's pretty simple to look at the cost of stock and processing and believe some misinformation and think you could make a movie out of it. If you're unclear on some aspects on film aquisition, I'm sure someone could point you the direction for a breakdown of costs associated with the medium.

Why would someone be willing to answer a reasonable question like that?
It only helps plug the fact that the HVX200 really offers a good value in comparison.

brian wells

[STORYTELLER32]

When he says both are superior to HD I think he's referring to quality of image.

[Mediacre]

I don't know what you mean both are superior to HD. I don't really. And, are you familiar with film workflow? Processing doesn't get you anywhere. It's not like you can go directly to a projector and watch it, well not with 500T anyway... and you wouldn't have a tape to offline it without a telecine or online with a DI. So, I don't see what your point is.. Maybe that 100 minutes of 16mm aquisition and processing is about the same price as a P2 card.. that still has the strong implication that you could actually shoot an entire movie and be prepared for post production on a 2500 budget and is sooo far fetched. If that's been the case in your experience, then there isn't much point in discussing this any further as you've obviously found a better way to shoot film than everyone else on planet earth when it comes to processing and telecine. A good rule of thumb for 16mm is about .75/foot for stock, proc, telecine to BetaSP averaged out over a 1200 foot minimum. There is no economy of scale; doesn't get cheaper... Just that there are certain minimums the lab needs to have before they'll process film. The costs for shooting a movie on 16mm are exponentially higher than 2500, even for aquisition costs... There's nothing you can do period with 500T without a transfer to tape or a print. You can't watch it and you can't edit it... So, I don't really see what you're getting at, okay.

EDIT: I am not trying to antagonize you or make you feel dumb, mediacare, but the point is it's pretty simple to look at the cost of stock and processing and believe some misinformation and think you could make a movie out of it. If you're unclear on some aspects on film aquisition, I'm sure someone could point you the direction for a breakdown of costs associated with the medium.

Why would someone be willing to answer a reasonable question like that?
It only helps plug the fact that the HVX200 really offers a good value in comparison.

brian wells


thisiswells, I can only quote what I already posted in the prior page.



Anyway, that was only an analogy as to how expensive P2 is those days. Nothing else.

[Mediacre]

When he says both are superior to HD I think he's referring to quality of image.

ditto. :thumbsup:

[thisiswells]

mediacare said in post #27

$2500 buys you 45min or 35mm and 100min of super16 including processing.
Anyway, that was only an analogy as to how expensive P2 is those days. Nothing else.
thisiswells said in post #31:

that still has the strong implication that you could actually shoot an entire movie and be prepared for post production on a 2500 budget and is sooo far fetched.

[Mediacre]

...


Nothing else.

[Mr. Blonde]

Now girls...girls....break it up.