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View Full Version : What made you decide upon the FS100 over the AF100?



Budgieboots
07-18-2011, 11:45 AM
Hi everybody, I'm on the verge of upgrading my gear, and I thought I was going to go the AF100 route, but after reading a bit more into the FS100, I am seriously considering changing my mind.
Especially after looking at the low-light capabilities. It looks like you can go out on city streets at night, and get seriously incredible images of a city at night.

That is something I've always wanted to do with my DVX100b, but have never been able to.

Over on the AF100 forum, they say that the FS100's image is a smidge better, is it? Or is it more? What qualities make the FS100's image look more pleasant then the AF100s?

Also, is it really that much of a hassle to shoot during the day with the FS100?
I've seen some people say that they can basically just put on a ND filter on the stock lens for day-time shooting, turn down the ISO and they're set.

Most of my setups are pretty primitive and I usually just roll with a camera and microphone, and at most a softlight.

But please, let me know reasons you went for the FS100 over the AF100.

I'm particularly interested in the image quality. Are there any side by side comparisons of shots at night?

morgan_moore
07-18-2011, 01:05 PM
bigger sensor means my existing lens set is more appropriate

I would have wanted to buy the nikkor 14-24 with a AF100

Better low light (I guess but have not actually tested the AF)

Banding in the hihglights - defeatable in the FS - the AF ?- I dont know

Smaller in the bag

less DOF with cheap lenses

Babu
07-18-2011, 01:38 PM
I was within inches of purchasing the FS100. The reason I didn't was because in April a Sony rep Juan Martinez told me to my face that the FS100 will ship late Summer. (end of July/August) I was told end of May by other people. I wanted the FS100 over the AF100 for the low light, better resolution, and the bigger sensor. Was going to swap lenses to sony based lenses. Found a deal on a AF100 when I was planning to purchase the FS100 especially since I was expecting it to ship late. Now since the value on the AF100 has fallen pretty quick I'll just keep it and buy a new cam in the next 2-3yrs instead. I'm happy with it but if I could do it over again I'd go with the FS100.

Budgieboots
07-18-2011, 02:16 PM
Does the FS100 have a better dynamic range then the AF100?

nyvz
07-18-2011, 02:17 PM
Hi everybody, I'm on the verge of upgrading my gear, and I thought I was going to go the AF100 route, but after reading a bit more into the FS100, I am seriously considering changing my mind.
Especially after looking at the low-light capabilities. It looks like you can go out on city streets at night, and get seriously incredible images of a city at night.

That is something I've always wanted to do with my DVX100b, but have never been able to.

Over on the AF100 forum, they say that the FS100's image is a smidge better, is it? Or is it more? What qualities make the FS100's image look more pleasant then the AF100s?

Also, is it really that much of a hassle to shoot during the day with the FS100?
I've seen some people say that they can basically just put on a ND filter on the stock lens for day-time shooting, turn down the ISO and they're set.

Most of my setups are pretty primitive and I usually just roll with a camera and microphone, and at most a softlight.

But please, let me know reasons you went for the FS100 over the AF100.

I'm particularly interested in the image quality. Are there any side by side comparisons of shots at night?

Highly recommend the FS100 over AF100. I've shot quite a bit with both now. I'd say the FS100 image quality is more than a smidge better. The AF100 gamma always bothers me, whereas the FS100 in cinematone1 is about as good as I could hope for from a video camera. I shot a music video with the FS100 yesterday and it is amazing to be able to crank up the shutter speed even in low lit interiors without much compromise in noise.

addax
07-18-2011, 02:17 PM
The same, a bigger sensor, better low light and a final look that I like VS HD-SDI, ND filters and a lower price... Finally I thought FS100 will be more useful to get a good quality even if I had to expend some money in gadgets or loose some ergonomics...

Babu
07-18-2011, 02:24 PM
I can't answer that but I do expect that it handles highlights better than AF100. nyvz post above has shot with both and has good valid input. The 2 biggest things the FS100 has going for it is the low noise, great lowlight and a really nice s35 sensor. In the end I'll still shoot with my AF100 and do paid work with it. Just purchased the 12mm 2.0 lens for it. It works for my purposes. I'm with everyone else and highly recommend the FS100. Take Care

nyvz
07-18-2011, 02:37 PM
Does the FS100 have a better dynamic range then the AF100?

From what I have seen, the FS100 has more useable DR and latitude than the AF100, EX1, 7D, 5D, etc.

Budgieboots
07-18-2011, 04:21 PM
Thank you all for replying so far. It's looking like it's the ideal camera for me.

There's just 2 other things I was wondering about:

1. Does the FS100 have the ability to do time lapse stuff as well?
2. Does the camera come with a microphone? I was reading it doesn't have a built in internal microphone.

Stephen Mick
07-18-2011, 04:27 PM
1. Yes
2. The FS-100 has no internal microphone, but it does come with a small camera-mounted microphone.

jetswing
07-18-2011, 04:38 PM
Does the FS100 have the ability to do time lapse stuff as well?

It can shoot in the following frame rates: 15, 8, 4, 2, and 1fps.

MattDavis
07-18-2011, 05:17 PM
please, let me know reasons you went for the FS100 over the AF100

Specifically, it's the same sort of sized sensor as my Canon DSLR, which I wanted to replace with something that did sync sound, had an LCD view panel that would allow zoomed in focusing ('expanded focus') during shoots, and all the niceties of white set, audio, live histogram and so on.

The AF101 was more of a 'video camera' (sounds funny to say that) and the FS100 would go places it wouldn't go. The AF101's highlight handling troubled me when I saw it at trade shows and on test videos. But mainly, the 1.6 crop factor on my current lenses was the killer for me. I loved the wide end of my Canon DSLR days, and didn't want to buy new glass. Though I am somewhat compromised until the Birger mount comes out.

Daylight shooting is fine - screw-in filters, pop out lens shades and so on. Low-light is legendary, but the kit lens is a black hole when it comes to sucking out light from a scene. Glad I have faster glass.

Image quality is very sexy. Clients notice. My second job with the camera got the client so steamed up it's lead to more work specifically because of its look. I might have got the same out of the AF101, but it would require a rethink of glass - and my stills camera is still doing the sort of slow-shutter timelapse that the EX1s are good at and the FS100 can't do. And besides - it's always good to have a decent stills camera on a shoot! :-)

FS100 definitely seems to be a Marmite camera - love it or hate it. Just down to personal taste.

Budgieboots
07-18-2011, 07:10 PM
Thanks for all the responses so far.

As a quick question, how usable is the 30dB of gain?

I've seen that test footage of that music video with the singer on the streets of London at night, and it looks like they just lit her face with a little video light while she was in the bus shelter, but everything else was just using ambient light.

Is it easy to make something look that good in a well-lit area of a city at night

thxdave
07-18-2011, 07:17 PM
<snip>.... but it would require a rethink of glass - and my stills camera is still doing the sort of slow-shutter timelapse that the EX1s are good at and the FS100 can't do. <snip>

Matt, can you expand on this a bit? I love my timelapse capabilities with my EX1 but I'm not sure what I'd be giving up if/when I get a FS100.
dave

profnoxin
07-18-2011, 07:21 PM
Beating the dead horse here, but...
1. S35 sensor
2. Don't need specialty glass
3. Wide shots on AF100 look like regular video cam
4. Highlights on AF100 not too pleasant
5. Smaller size body allowed me to work with mostly existing parts from my 5D/7D handheld rigs
6. Lowlight performance
7. Accuracy of white balance - AF100 seems to skew magenta and even violet in certain circumstances which I find unsettling
8. Already own the TV Logic 5.6 so converting HDMI to HD-SDI for clients wasn't an issue
9. Has a sister camera in the F3, so if you're in a remote location and need to replace your camera you have two choices for a replacement body. With the AF100 your only real choice is a GH2.
10. Held up better in a 10x blow up test for big screen projection, which makes it a clear winner in the "Digital Cinema" arena as far as I'm concerned.

David G. Smith
07-19-2011, 04:21 AM
What really got me to go for the FS100 was that I really like that Sony took the chip designed for a $13,000.00 Digital Cinema/Cine Alta line camera, and put it in a more affordable package, where as Panasonic, essentially, took the sensor from a $1000.00 DSLR and repurposed it in a dedicated video camera. I know it is not just that simple, but I think you get the point. The image quality of the FS100 in most of the posted tests showed an edge over the AF100, so that help also. Now that I have shot with the FS100 for a little bit, I love it. The image quality, especially in low light blows my mind.

The 30db setting is pretty amazing. I shot some tests with it in a bar over the weekend and was impressed. It is noisy, but the noise on the FS100 is much easier to handle than say the noise from a Canon HD-DSLR. Whether 30db is "Useable" is really dependent on the parameters of the project it is going to be used for. I shot my project at 15dbs (Which Abel Cine rates as a 3200 ISO) and the images look great. There is perceptible noise, but it is very fine, and not at all unpleasant, for my uses.

I really like the camera. It is the camera I have been wanting for almost 20 years. It is not perfect, but no camera, that I am likely to be able to afford, will ever be perfect.

MattDavis
07-19-2011, 05:05 AM
Matt, can you expand on this a bit? I love my timelapse capabilities with my EX1 but I'm not sure what I'd be giving up if/when I get a FS100.
dave

Timelapse on the FS100 basically means shooting at 1 frame per second, but you're truly getting a 1 frame per second movie, so you can be shooting for hours without filling up the card.

However, as you know, the EX1 has an interval recorder which enables you to shoot a frame from every second up to 24 hours (in fairly sensible steps). Furthermore, the EX1s have 'EX Slow Shutter' - a sort of 'accumilation' shutter, which combines 16, 32 or 64 separate 'exposures' which are added together to make a super-long exposure. This is NOT on the FS100, but IS on the F3. Funny, that.

So, the FS100 will do your standard 'scudding clouds' shot in a pinch, plus some 'moving queues' crowd walk-ins and somesuch, but it's not the Timelapse Machine that the EX1 is.

Hence the retention of my Canon 550D with a little cheap intervalometer to do those long slow shutter scenes (blurry crowds, slight-streaks on the highway et seq.).

stevedocmaker
07-19-2011, 10:24 AM
I just shot some run-and-gun footage last night at dusk. I came out great (kit lens), even on full auto (a variable ND is a must, however). The AF100 (I own one) would have been a total struggle - I probably would have missed half the shots - and the resultant footage would have been a bit noisier. For more cinematic work the differences are less obvious, IMHO. In that case I think choice is more a matter of taste, you can get a great image from either camera if you take the time to set it up correctly, though I find the picture styles more customizable in the FS100. And although people rave about the larger sensor on the FS100, there's an advantage to the 4/3 sensor some times, like when you want a long telephoto shot and don't have access to a $3000 piece of glass (a $200 Nikon 300mm/f4 gives a great image on the AF100).

MattDavis
07-19-2011, 11:53 AM
although people rave about the larger sensor on the FS100, there's an advantage to the 4/3 sensor some times, like when you want a long telephoto shot

Telephoto is a bit easier to do than wide, especially at wide apertures, and whilst I don't want to gush, the Samyang 35mm f1.4 is particularly gushworthy. The Tokina is well known in many mounts including PL. The famous Voigtlander f.095 25mm on an AF101 is a 40mm on an FS100 - and equal to, say, f1.2? f1.4? As you reduce the imager size, so the relative equivalent of the f-stop decreases. But there is a point at which you need to call Time Out, where you're pulling focus to keep the eyes in focus as the interviewee breathes.

Look, I was -->.<-- that close to buying an AF101. There are times when I feel I should have (because I'm learning the way of the FS100). Got three emails today about footage I shot a couple of weeks ago on an FS100 - bunch of interviews. People WANT to use them because they look gorgeous. Sorry, it's corproate, can't share for legal reasons. Use and sharing of glass between Canon stills camera, FS100 and some Nikkor glass I have inherited, plus availability of interesting glass on both platforms keeps me wedded to the FS100 - it's all about the glass.

DOSMedia
07-19-2011, 12:54 PM
Thanks for all the responses so far.

As a quick question, how usable is the 30dB of gain?

I've seen that test footage of that music video with the singer on the streets of London at night, and it looks like they just lit her face with a little video light while she was in the bus shelter, but everything else was just using ambient light.

Is it easy to make something look that good in a well-lit area of a city at night

Ehh It is not too useable. There is noise, but much less noise than the high end of a DSLR, and I have seen shots with it that look alright.

Let me put it to you this way... I whipped out my FS100 one night and at 3.5 aperture, 1/24th shutter, 24 db gain, and I pointed it up the mountain at the sky and saw a good amount of stars. Yup stars. I have never got a video camera to pick up stars in film mode before and the FS100 did it with ease. That blew my mind.

Everyone has covered why to purchase this camera so I wont repeat it. I almost bought an AF100 too at first but then I realized that there is a reason people were selling practically brand new AF100s for 3700.

Alpern
07-20-2011, 01:53 AM
Besides everything that every one else has mentioned, I really love the small size of the fs100. I had a af100 and sold it for a lot of reasons.

Budgieboots
07-20-2011, 02:11 AM
Hi Alpern, could you elaborate on why you sold the AF100 out of curiosity? :)
I too like that the FS100 is quite small.

Also, (this question is for anyone with some experience with ND filters) would this be a suitable neutral density filter for the stock Sony 18-200mm lens? Will it get the job done for filming outdoors? Or would I be needing some more powerful?
http://www.vistek.ca/store/CameraFilters/254672/cameron-77mm-multicoated-fader-nd-filter.aspx

I believe you can remove between 1-8 stops of light with it according to the description. My only previous experience with ND filters has been using the built-in ones on the DVX100b and HVX200, so I'm a little unsure of what I should be looking for.

legrevedotcom
07-20-2011, 02:14 AM
I just ordered Light Craft Workshops ND Mk II filters. From what I read they should be fine and not too expensive. Gives you 2-9 stop of ND. I think there was one comment in here that they also retain color quite well. They also have filters for the 16mm pancake...

you can find them on www.lightcraftworkshop-shop.com (http://www.lightcraftworkshop-shop.com) or on ebay

gianx80
07-20-2011, 02:15 AM
Hi Alpern, could you elaborate on why you sold the AF100 out of curiosity? :)
I too like that the FS100 is quite small.

Also, (this question is for anyone with some experience with ND filters) would this be a suitable neutral density filter for the stock Sony 18-200mm lens? Will it get the job done for filming outdoors? Or would I be needing some more powerful?
http://www.vistek.ca/store/CameraFilters/254672/cameron-77mm-multicoated-fader-nd-filter.aspx

I believe you can remove between 1-8 stops of light with it according to the description. My only previous experience with ND filters has been using the built-in ones on the DVX100b and HVX200, so I'm a little unsure of what I should be looking for.

Same question. I'd love to buy a FS100 but I'd like to know which kind of ND filter I have to use with stock lens :)

jetswing
07-20-2011, 02:19 AM
Also, (this question is for anyone with some experience with ND filters) would this be a suitable neutral density filter for the stock Sony 18-200mm lens? Will it get the job done for filming outdoors? Or would I be needing some more powerful?
http://www.vistek.ca/store/CameraFilters/254672/cameron-77mm-multicoated-fader-nd-filter.aspx

I believe you can remove between 1-8 stops of light with it according to the description. My only previous experience with ND filters has been using the built-in ones on the DVX100b and HVX200, so I'm a little unsure of what I should be looking for.
Looking at the price, I would be wary of its optical quality. Also, typical anything past 6 stop might not be usable. Most of the high-end filters do up to 6 stops. Ones with 8 stops like the Fader ND is useless above 6 stops due to uneven polarization effects.

I would say 6 stops is enough but it all depends on how much depth of field you want -- you won't able to shoot with a wide-open iris.

gianx80
07-20-2011, 02:33 AM
Looking at the price, I would be wary of its optical quality. Also, typical anything past 6 stop might not be usable. Most of the high-end filters do up to 6 stops. Ones with 8 stops like the Fader ND is useless above 6 stops due to uneven polarization effects.

I would say 6 stops is enough but it all depends on how much depth of field you want -- you won't able to shoot with a wide-open iris.

So a good ND filter would have (at most) 6 stops, right?

jetswing
07-20-2011, 03:27 AM
So a good ND filter would have (at most) 6 stops, right?
Yes, for a circular vari ND, 6 stops seems to be the limit. The soon to be released Tiffen vari ND boasting 8 stops might buck the trend, who knows.

gianx80
07-20-2011, 03:54 AM
Yes, for a circular vari ND, 6 stops seems to be the limit. The soon to be released Tiffen vari ND boasting 8 stops might buck the trend, who knows.

Thanks for the info.

So, in spite of the lack of ND filter, SDI and other little features the FS100 beats the AF100 over image quality and low light shooting right? I think I'll buy the FS100 (I'm not a pro, only an amateur) but before this big and not so cheap purchase I'd love to hear your opinions :)

David G. Smith
07-20-2011, 04:01 AM
For ND filters, I just bought Tiffen screw on filters, 0.9, 0.6 and 0.3, to use with my lenses. Most of my lenses are Nikkor primes with a 52mm front filter element and that works fine. I was able to get all three of those filters for about $40.00. I have shot in daylight and they work fine. I just don't trust the variable NDs, which are polarizing filters after all, not to affect image quality. I may be wrong on that, but straight ND filters are inexpensive enough not to really worry about that.

gianx80
07-20-2011, 04:24 AM
For ND filters, I just bought Tiffen screw on filters, 0.9, 0.6 and 0.3, to use with my lenses. Most of my lenses are Nikkor primes with a 52mm front filter element and that works fine. I was able to get all three of those filters for about $40.00. I have shot in daylight and they work fine. I just don't trust the variable NDs, which are polarizing filters after all, not to affect image quality. I may be wrong on that, but straight ND filters are inexpensive enough not to really worry about that.

So, did you buy these ones?

http://www.tiffen.com/results.html?search_type_no=352&search_filter_format=Screw-In&tablename=filters

David G. Smith
07-20-2011, 04:32 AM
So, did you buy these ones?

http://www.tiffen.com/results.html?search_type_no=352&search_filter_format=Screw-In&tablename=filters

Yes, off of Amazon.com

legrevedotcom
07-20-2011, 04:42 AM
But was there something wrong with LWC ND fader with 2-9 stops? :o I'm about to purchase a couple, but I wont if they ruin the shots.

David G. Smith
07-20-2011, 05:21 AM
An ND filter cuts light transmission across the full spectrum of light, and without regard for the angle of light. Variable NDs are variations on polarizing filters, which means that they cut light transmission WITH regard to the angle of the light. It is my understanding that they may effect the look of an image in regards to reflected light and may effect different parts of the image in different ways, especially variable wavelength sources like the sky. I have not used them because I prefer to use straight ND filters to cut light, and polarizing filters for their specific effects. To me, I have found that I can get straight ND filters at a much lower cost than the variable ND filters, and then I don't have to worry about it. For me, the inconvenience of having to add or subtract ND filters is more than outweighed by the worry that a variable ND might be giving me unwanted changes to the image that I want. Some folks swear by variable NDs. They may be right, and I am just being anal about it. I have just made the decision that variable NDs are not something that I personally want to deal with.

Kyle McConaghy
07-20-2011, 07:21 AM
Yes, for a circular vari ND, 6 stops seems to be the limit. The soon to be released Tiffen vari ND boasting 8 stops might buck the trend, who knows.

What's up with the Tiffen Variable ND? It looks like you can be the spring discontinued(?) one on ebay, but when is the newer one coming out? I'm tired of googling tiffen+variable+ND+2011!

gianx80
07-20-2011, 08:31 AM
However the Tiffen Variable ND is 77 mm and the kit glass is 67 mm (SEL18200). I guess I have to buy not variable filters in order to use them with SEL18200 glass, right?

jetswing
07-20-2011, 08:39 AM
However the Tiffen Variable ND is 77 mm and the kit glass is 67 mm (SEL18200). I guess I have to buy not variable filters in order to use them with SEL18200 glass, right?
You can get various size step-up rings to fit any size lenses.

gianx80
07-20-2011, 08:46 AM
You can get various size step-up rings to fit any size lenses.

Thanks, I'm new to this world so I have a lot to learn :)

morgan_moore
07-20-2011, 09:32 AM
It is usual to use over size filters and step up rings eg 67-77

this means you get one filter and rings to get your lenses all to have the same size front

there can be some issues with wide lenses doing this

ive got ND in 62 and 77

77 covers all my larger lenses and zooms
62 covers my smaller primes which are 62 down to 52

S

alaskacameradude
07-20-2011, 10:37 AM
For all those asking about ND filters, run, don't walk, and buy the Heliopan variable ND. Buy it 10 minutes ago. Yes, it's expensive, but yes it is that good. I have a thread on here with examples of the video you get from it. There is no color cast, and there is no sharpness loss that I can see at all. This is the filter that Philip Bloom recommended on his blog, and I can see why. It goes from 1 - 6.6 stops. You can buy it in various sizes, I have the 77mm one with a step up ring for the kit lens. These threads have more info.


http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?254833-FS-100-Heliopan-depth-of-field-evaluation-video

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?254365-ND-filtering-for-the-FS100EK-advise-needed.../page4



All I can say is, I'm not sure how it works, it may be two polarizing filters reversed to counteract each other's effects, like a previous poster was saying. But I can't any bad effects
from using the filter at all. If I am shooting outside, it's on my lens, period. Yes, it's that good.

Lee Saxon
07-20-2011, 12:32 PM
I have an irrational hatred of the m4/3 sensor size so the FS100 gets major points for S35 in my book.

But the AF100 offers SDI & lots of intermediate framerate options at about the same price, so I couldn't buy the Sony without feeling cheated.

If I had a dollar for every time Sony made me feel cheated...

Alpern
07-20-2011, 04:04 PM
Hi Alpern, could you elaborate on why you sold the AF100 out of curiosity? :)

First let me state my needs in a camera. I do mostly narrative film making, shorts, music videos and some talking head doc stuff. I shoot with almost all PL lenses, own a set of Zeiss CP's and rent others as needed.
I sold my af-100 because of the following:
I was not happy with image quality, mostly the high light handling.
Sensor size, its hard to find a good wide angle lens.
I know every one else loves the built in ND filters but I didn't like them because they jump value. So I always had to use a 1 stop ND filter to get the value I needed.
I do miss the HD-SDI but that's about it.
I also didn't like the form factor of AF100. The FS100 is not prefect but at least its a good platform to start with, you can build it how you want it.
Lastly I like the Sony's FMU because I can record to card and FMU. I can give the client the card at the end of the shoot and take the FMU back to post production. When budget allows for it, I also use an external recorder.

David G. Smith
07-20-2011, 04:53 PM
For all those asking about ND filters, run, don't walk, and buy the Heliopan variable ND. Buy it 10 minutes ago. Yes, it's expensive, but yes it is that good. I have a thread on here with examples of the video you get from it. There is no color cast, and there is no sharpness loss that I can see at all. This is the filter that Philip Bloom recommended on his blog, and I can see why. It goes from 1 - 6.6 stops. You can buy it in various sizes, I have the 77mm one with a step up ring for the kit lens. These threads have more info.


http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?254833-FS-100-Heliopan-depth-of-field-evaluation-video

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?254365-ND-filtering-for-the-FS100EK-advise-needed.../page4



All I can say is, I'm not sure how it works, it may be two polarizing filters reversed to counteract each other's effects, like a previous poster was saying. But I can't any bad effects
from using the filter at all. If I am shooting outside, it's on my lens, period. Yes, it's that good.

Yeah, I am not an expert on the variable NDs. A lot of folks have been great results with them. It is just a piece of kit that I have not chosen to use at this time. If someone is interested in using them, I do not want to discourage them from trying them.

alaskacameradude
07-20-2011, 05:02 PM
Yeah, I am not an expert on the variable NDs. A lot of folks have been great results with them. It is just a piece of kit that I have not chosen to use at this time. If someone is interested in using them, I do not want to discourage them from trying them.

I'm not trying to rip on you or anything of the like. As a matter of fact, I have seen other variable ND's and I agree with you, I did NOT like how they looked! All I was saying, is that it seems
that a person can't paint all variable ND's with the same brush....I think there is a difference between the host of variable ND filters you can get out there. How could there not be? You can
buy some variable ND's for $40, and this Heliopan costs $400!!! There is a reason for that, from what I can see! It's hard because there is not much video out there showing what they look like
when they are being used. That's why I posted video showing what it looked like with and without the Heliopan and various focal lengths, cause I didn't see any video out there showing that yet.
That way people can look at the video and decide for themselves if they like how it looks. When you are spending $400 on a ND filter of all things, you want to make sure it is actually
pretty good, cause that is NOT cheap!

David G. Smith
07-20-2011, 05:14 PM
I'm not trying to rip on you or anything of the like. As a matter of fact, I have seen other variable ND's and I agree with you, I did NOT like how they looked! All I was saying, is that it seems
that a person can't paint all variable ND's with the same brush....I think there is a difference between the host of variable ND filters you can get out there. How could there not be? You can
buy some variable ND's for $40, and this Heliopan costs $400!!! There is a reason for that, from what I can see! It's hard because there is not much video out there showing what they look like
when they are being used. That's why I posted video showing what it looked like with and without the Heliopan and various focal lengths, cause I didn't see any video out there showing that yet.
That way people can look at the video and decide for themselves if they like how it looks. When you are spending $400 on a ND filter of all things, you want to make sure it is actually
pretty good, cause that is NOT cheap!

+1

gianx80
07-21-2011, 02:27 AM
So the cheapest solution for this camera is to buy three not variable filters ... $400 are too much for me at the moment :(

robmneilson
07-21-2011, 08:16 AM
I understand that having ND's in camera is a nice feature, but why not invest in a decent matte box, and some 4x4 filters? I picked up an old Arri MB (that must be from the early 80's) on ebay for $200 and I'm pretty much set for life. So much easier than having to deal with variable ND's and screwing them onto lenses with step up rings etc etc.

nyvz
07-21-2011, 08:35 AM
I understand that having ND's in camera is a nice feature, but why not invest in a decent matte box, and some 4x4 filters? I picked up an old Arri MB (that must be from the early 80's) on ebay for $200 and I'm pretty much set for life. So much easier than having to deal with variable ND's and screwing them onto lenses with step up rings etc etc.

I'd have to disagree, I always have my matte box on, but I never put 4x4 filters in it because I just leave my ND Fader on when I'm shooting exteriors. Step up rings are easy because they are cheap and you only have to put it on your lens once and then it lives there and then your lenses all have the same filter thread size. It is also far more convenient and less expensive to have one ND Fader than a whole set of NDs especially considering the time it takes to switch out ND filters to get roughly the right filtration compared to being able to turn the ND fader and quickly get exactly the right filtration level you want. And then there's the fact that if you use any lenses that change their length while zooming you have to have a special apparatus to make it work with a rod-mounted matte box that also increases lens-changing times.

If you only use primes or cine-glass and never run-and-gun then I could see how 4x4 filters might work well for you, but in the end you still might be able to get more flexibility at a lower price by using an ND fader.

SergeSmArt
07-21-2011, 08:40 PM
Actually I never even look to Panasonic AF 100 side: 4/3 sensor size was "Dead Idea" from the begining... and when I look to Sony F3 I feel as I hate the size and design of it.. plus crazy price for camcorder without RAW format option ..
So.. when I look to FS 100 at the first time I was surprised with it's Modular Desing:

http://www.sergesphotography.com/temp/Sony-NEX-FS100c.jpg
and .. when I've got it I found it even MUCH BETTER that I was hope ....

After few days of shooting tests and trying to find the best settings for it.. I found that this is ABSOLUTELY THE BEST COMBINATION OF IT'S PRICE AND QUALITY FOR TODAY!!
this REALLY IS "DSLR -KILLER" - Image Quality is SO MUCH BETTER than ANY DSLR , so I cannot belive my eyes!
NO MORE MOIRE and other artifasts, no more problems with sound connection ..and no more "12minutes" limitation of uninterrupted shooting !

Take a look to any files from 5D ... or 7D .. and compare it to Sony FS-100 files and you will see it.. . a specially for 7D 720p 60 fps files..

There was something about "better DR" on Sony F3.. a specially with "S-log".. but .. at first - I don't belive it.. :) and as second - to get this "magic S-log" option owners of F3 camera MUST TO PAY EXTRA $3,680.00 !!! :grin:
--> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/784678-REG/Sony_CBK_RGB01_Optional_Software_Key.html

As far as I look carefully do not overexpose FS-100 files I feel I can do anything with it :)

..and .. I want to say something about crazy ND filters "problem" - I DON'T SEE IT! I use the same ND filters with my Canon 5D2, and you will need them with any RED or Alexa cameras as well..
and as far as I understand it - sometimes we will NEED to use GRADIENT ND filters - to make good exposure of bright sky and dark ground ... .. so .. any "arguments" of what kind of ND filters is "better" have no reasons at all .. for one kind of filing better 4X4 , 4X6 filters, for other situation better circular filters.. .... let's talk about something MORE INPORTANT.. ....as "stuttering"... for example !
:)