Something that hasn't been considered...

[Simon Wyndham]

The DVCproHD codec. It isn't exactly the easiest or cheapest codec to get hold of! It's not freely downloadable.

So, I think it may be a good idea to put some pressure on Panny to include a disc with the Quicktime DVCproHD codec with the HVX!

[Mediacre]

Many nle can do it natively, so whats the point?

[Simon Wyndham]

Many NLE can do DVCpro, not DVCproHD. Quicktime do not include DVCproHD as standard. You either have to own software like FCP or pay good money for it.

[Jan_Crittenden]

Actually at this time both Avid and FCP can deal with native DVCPRO50 and DVCPRO HD. And frankly just putting it on a disc with the camera would indeed be foolish as the rest of the NLE infrastructure has to support what the codec. does. Consider that Avid has had it for more than a year and they still do not have all of the variable frame rates hammered out. They will but not just yet.

By putting it on a disc we invent a firestorm that would be totally out of control, by working it our way we can help the NLE manufcaturer through the hard spots.

Best regards,

Jan

[Simon Wyndham]

Umm, great. But then how many on this forum own Avid? Surely it's just a Quicktime codec?

The long and short of it is that the HVX200 is going to be next to useless for the majority of people here unless we can actually edit the footage from P2 as intended. And that means making sure that the majority of software supports MXF and also the DVCproHD codec.

[Jan_Crittenden]

Hi,

Forgot one more, Canopus. Also if they do not support MXF, then there is the Focus Enhancements file converter software that they wrote for us, that will turn the file into what it needs to be, but it does not change the codec. If you are working on your favorite platform, you should talk to them and tell them you intend to purchase this product and you need them to be able to support DVCPRO50 and DVCPRO HD. We have a person stateside to manage this and so far we are having significant success. By the time this camera hits, there will be many other supporters, I predict.

Best regards,

an

[Simon Wyndham]

Hmm. Things get messy with converters. What good is having mxf files that could be dragged straight onto the timeline if they have to go through a conversion process to end up with a usable codec for a particular piece of software first?

Its not Focus Enhancements you need to be working with, its all the NLE makers. The big sticking point here being that popular software such as Vegas is made by Sony. The big question is, can the two big rivals communicate to one anoher to ensure that software such as this can take Panasonic mxf files and DVCproHD?

[THX1138]

FCP supports DVCAM and DVCProHD.
I believe DVCAM is Sony's, correct?
If Apple can keep up, I don't see why Sony can't.
But, Sony is notorious for keeping a tight clamp on the stuff they develop.

[Mediacre]

Well, HD is not for everyone. It comes at a cost. You can't just wish Panasonic makes HD production as easy as DV production. Not gonna happen. At least not now. You still have to pay a premium to be working at the higher end of the chain. I think it's already great Panasonic is making DVCPRO-HD available at this price point. It's also great they make it possible to capture it via firewire. I think they are making it really easy for post. What NLE will you use is really not up tom them or their problem. There are sure many out there that can handle it. If one can't afford it, is not Panasonic's fault. I think they have done their part to make HD post easier and cheaper. Is not in their hands to make Pinnacle Studio 8 handle HD just so people can afford editing HD and buy the HVX200. When considering a system, you have to consider the whole thing. If you can afford a HVX but can't afford a mac+FCP or a PC+XpreesPro, plus enough storage, plus HD accessories, you can't afford HD production. It's not Panasonic's fault.
On a side note, DVCPRO-HD is really affordable to edit. I'm not at all concerned with post production or it's costs. I'm more concerned with how to capture DVCPRO-HD with the HVX for the near future.


Many NLE can do DVCpro, not DVCproHD. Quicktime do not include DVCproHD as standard. You either have to own software like FCP or pay good money for it.


I think you already figured out what I meant . :thumbsup:

[Jan_Crittenden]

[QUOTE=Simon Wyndham]Hmm. Things get messy with converters. What good is having mxf files that could be dragged straight onto the timeline if they have to go through a conversion process to end up with a usable codec for a particular piece of software first?

The MXF wrapper is appropriate and useful if indeed it is all used. It is that which holds all of the pieces together. The file converter is for those customers that hat have older systems that do not support MXF like the older Avids that only support OF. This is not a bad thing and frankly if there was an file conversion maker, I would put my bets on the FE in as musch that the FS4 does this every day all day.


Its not Focus Enhancements you need to be working with, its all the NLE makers. The big sticking point here being that popular software such as Vegas is made by Sony. The big question is, can the two big rivals communicate to one anoher to ensure that software such as this can take Panasonic mxf files and DVCproHD?

We are Simon. If you took a few minutes to read through our partners you would recognize manufacturers like Avid, Apple, Grass Valley, Canopus, Pinnacle, to start. There are 15 there today and it will be growing. I think that the NAB debut of the HVX200 turned a couple of heads and we should be seeing others. I would not write anything off, but it is not us that is the road block. We would have absolutely no problem in working with Vegas. You all just need to make sure that they know that they will lose customers if they do not support the DVCPRO50 and DVCPRO HD codec. And actually it is not made by Sony, it is made by a company that was purchased by Sony.

Best regards,

Jan

[CMS]

I agree with what Mediacre's saying. Migrating to HD involves more than just the camera, and essentially if you are unable to afford what's required for the workflow then just don't shoot HD. Simple as that. Stick with what you have until you can upgrade or until those companies do provide support. You have to remember this is the first time such features were ever offered at this price point; the problem isn't because Panasonic somehow failed to properly encourage low-end NLE manufacturers to support HD, but because this is the first time real HD has ever been available to the low end!

Anyway, as Jan's posts show, I think there is good enough support already and more support on the way.

[galt]

[QUOTE]

We would have absolutely no problem in working with Vegas. You all just need to make sure that they know that they will lose customers if they do not support the DVCPRO50 and DVCPRO HD codec. And actually it is not made by Sony, it is made by a company that was purchased by Sony.

Best regards,

Jan
Jan, can you provide us with the best person at Vegas to contact about this? I am ready to buy the Vegas 6 upgrade, but if they are not going to support DVCPRO HD I may as well switch NLE's now before I waste more time becoming expert in Vegas.

[Loki]

I really don't think Simon here understands a thing about file formats and Codecs.

Quicktime is not a format.. it is an API.... it is a wrapper for about 20 different codecs... such as DVCPRO-HD..

Just like the AVI file on the PC is a wrapper that encompasses several codecs..

Files stored on the P2 use the DVCPRO-HD codec.. so... any NLE that supports DVCPRO-HD can use them.

It doesn't matter the the type of "wrapper" file that houses the video data which is a pretty trivial task when NLE makers I am sure are being provided the file structures from Panasonic..

Simon, I don't think you got what Jan was saying... She said if a file conversion needs to be done, it can be "without" affecting the codec... ie: it is *NOT* a transcoding process that is going on.. it is simply a conversion of the wrapper that encases the codec data.

cheers,

[speedbump]

Since we don't know when the HVX is going to be available, and what the final list of vendors will be who support DVCPRO HD editing, I'm expecting that I will capture and edit in uncompressed mode with something like After Effects 1.5. This opens up interesting possibilities in terms of a small network of render nodes to throw as much CPU power at the problem as is affordable.

Even if I were able to buy the HVX tomorrow, I suspect it will be a year or so before my crew make the move to HD for an actual paying client.

[Barry_Green]

[QUOTE=Jan_Crittenden]
Jan, can you provide us with the best person at Vegas to contact about this? I am ready to buy the Vegas 6 upgrade, but if they are not going to support DVCPRO HD I may as well switch NLE's now before I waste more time becoming expert in Vegas.
The dilemma I face as well...

[galt]

[QUOTE=galt]
The dilemma I face as well...

Barry, I didn't want to crosspost, so check this thread!!

http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/showthread.php?p=205070#post205070

[stephenlnoe]

Jan,

Pinnacle is a P2 partner as well. DVCPro50 and MXF are supported currently (as you know). Is there word on whether the DVCProHD codec will be extended to ChromeHD or Liquid Edition 6 Broadcast/Vortex?

thanks...

[Barry_Green]

With Avid acquiring Pinnacle, and Avid already having developed their own DVCPRO-HD codec (or licensed the Panasonic one, whichever the case may be) it certainly seems promising that the Pinnacle lineup will have the support...

[thisiswells]

Not to be a braggard on the benefits on FCP, but this is where the line may be drawn for many editors.

FinalCutPro has always been a marketing tool to sell Apple hardware and because of that they
have tried to remove every possible barrier (in other words: price) to make it available to anyone
doing just about any quality level: DV, SD, or HD. Panasonic has clearly been a friend to Apple
as together they introduced for the first time ever: 422SD over Firewire. Now, they offer 422HD
over Firewire and it doesn't cost any extra for the software, unlike other vendors.

Format agnostic is a term often tossed around these days. FinalCutPro has no high-end product
to protect, unlike Avid's line, which is of course better at many things on the high-end level, but
exponentially more expensive and fewer people have access to it. When you upgrade your camera
format, you then upgrade the kind of Avid product you have. That is not format agnostic.

So, I hope for everyone with every system to be able to maintain their workflow and fantastic
software editors they are accustomed to. I mean it, sincerely. But, I will say that if I didn't have
any editing equipment today I would probably wait a few or six or ten months before I settled on one.

brian wells

[David Jimerson]

With Avid acquiring Pinnacle, and Avid already having developed their own DVCPRO-HD codec (or licensed the Panasonic one, whichever the case may be) it certainly seems promising that the Pinnacle lineup will have the support...

One would hope. Though, Pinnacle has sneered at 24p thus far, and I have a tough time heading back down that route because of it.