Fcp x is now out!

[DOSMedia]

HERE IT IS FINALLY! Aa predicted by most, June 21ST.

http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/

[Luis Caffesse]

Looks like Motion and Compressor are being offerred separately now.

[DOSMedia]

Looks like its not quite ready yet, but I assume these errors everyone is getting will be fixed shortly.

[Will Clegg]

Downloading now... It will be a few weeks before I actually try to use it for a paying gig, but time to start playing in the sandbox! Downloading Compressor too.

[KyleProhaska]

There's some stuff missing that's very annoying like no import of old projects, no old viewer style just in case you wanted it, no fully customizable layout for dual monitors (it's limited), and a few other things. I think I'll hold off for the moment until I figure out the best way to move forward with things.

[Will Clegg]

Yeah, it looks like they still have some work to do in updates, especially regarding import of FCP 6/7 projects, OMF export, multicam, etc. But that stuff is all coming, allegedly. Here is a good write up to answer preliminary questions (from another dvxuser thread on FCP X): http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2011/06/what-are-the-answers-to-the-unanswered-questions-about-final-cut-pro-x/

[yoclay]

Yeah, it looks like they still have some work to do in updates, especially regarding import of FCP 6/7 projects, OMF export, multicam, etc. But that stuff is all coming, allegedly. Here is a good write up to answer preliminary questions (from another dvxuser thread on FCP X): http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2011/06/what-are-the-answers-to-the-unanswered-questions-about-final-cut-pro-x/

Hence the Larry Jordan quote about not being ready for professional support.

[chromeboy007]

I love (hate) how every review compares it to previous versions of FCP only. Not once does any one of them attempt to stack it up against at least Premiere.

I wonder if Motion will work as a standalone program. I haven't used Motion on my FCS2 for so long I hardly remember. If the new one has lots of cool presets I might think about getting it.

[Cory Braun]

Can FCP X and FCP 7 both be installed or does FCP X replace FCP 7?

[handsome pete]

Can FCP X and FCP 7 both be installed or does FCP X replace FCP 7?

FCP X does not overwrite FCP7. They can run concurrently.

[biginvegas]

fine time to find I need a new graphics card as well, needs upgrade from ATI Radeon HD 2600 .... another $250

[Brian@202020]

So since it's not working with some stock Mac Pro video cards, I can assume it will not work on my 2008 MacBook Pro.

[Prairieboy]

I have been playing around with it for 15 minutes, just doing some hey what does this do kind of thing. And at least 10 times I have said out loud, wow that is cool. I have been cutting on FCP since version 1, this is all new, and I already love it.

[stip]

wth, seems more like an iMovie Pro than Final Cut Pro?!

[J Bellari]

I love how Apple claims the new FCPX platform is geared for the next 10 years, and omits 3D...


3D is officially dead!

[William_Robinette]

wth, seems more like an iMovie Pro than Final Cut Pro?!


I really dont understand. Why does everyone keep saying this? Because the interface is actually enjoyable to look at?

I haven't had the chance to download it yet, but I'm looking forward to it. Honestly with the timeline enhancements it looks to me like it will pilot a lot like Sony Vegas does, which I personally think makes for much faster/pleasant editing.

[biginvegas]

So since it's not working with some stock Mac Pro video cards, I can assume it will not work on my 2008 MacBook Pro.

ATI HD 3000 or higher, not looking good brother

[David Saraceno]

So since it's not working with some stock Mac Pro video cards, I can assume it will not work on my 2008 MacBook Pro.

Here’s the system requirements the folks at Apple provided:

Mac computer with an Intel Core 2 Duo processor or better
2GB of RAM (4GB of RAM recommended)
OpenCL-capable graphics card or Intel HD Graphics 3000 or later
256MB of VRAM
Display with 1280-by-768 pixel resolution or higher
Mac OS X v10.6.7 or later
2.4GB of disk space for Final Cut Pro
2GB of disk space for Motion
685MB of disk space for Compressor

[handsome pete]

I love how Apple claims the new FCPX platform is geared for the next 10 years, and omits 3D...


3D is officially dead!

You're ignoring the fact that it will probably be implemented in an update. Remember, this is a version 1 piece of software.

[stip]

Because the interface is actually enjoyable to look at?

No but because right now it seems to me a lot of 'Pro' features are missing

[handsome pete]

I really dont understand. Why does everyone keep saying this? Because the interface is actually enjoyable to look at?


Because for some reason people like to form opinions on face value alone.


I'm looking forward to checking it out. From everything I've read it's definitely not ready to supplant FCP7 for my use. But hopefully that will change in the relatively near future.

[TheReverend]

So since it's not working with some stock Mac Pro video cards, I can assume it will not work on my 2008 MacBook Pro.

Incorrect. Just check in the App Store, it'll tell you if you can run it.

The long and skinny is that some video cards support Open CL natively. Others don't. AMD/ATI 's 2000 series cards did not therefore making them incompatible with Final Cut Pro X. A MacBook Pro's card which is less powerful may likely be compatible though due to it's support of OpenCL.

[Cory Braun]

FCP X does not overwrite FCP7. They can run concurrently.

Thanks.

[mikkoj]

Hello board. New software, new user out of lurkmode. I've played around with FCPX for a while now and almost everything seems in order. Except that weirdly, clip info no longer displays video bit rates. This is bummer for projects that have bit rate requirements (like some digital channels do). Or for figuring out what camera settings feed the most data onto the card/tape.

[jmarkham]

This is the first Apple software release that is incapable of reading the previous version's files.

No XML in or out
No OMF in or out
No Multicam editing

FCPX is dead-in-the-water for our workflow.

Frankly, I expect better from Apple.

[811productions]

I've been playing for a bit and I can't figure out a way to monitor through my blackmagic card hd-sdi to my monitor... I just bought the monitor and I hope I can get it to work somehow, but I can't find a thing.

[blackcat]

I am going to be buying this soon. How do color corrections within Final Cut X compare to Color?

Has anyone bought Motion X? I have always just used After Effects. There would need to be a really good reason for me to get it.

[dwelter]

I'll be buying Ripple Training course right along with the new FCPX. They got me through Motion and FCP and I'm hoping they have blazed a trail here as well.

http://www.rippletraining.com/

[Brian@202020]

Incorrect. Just check in the App Store, it'll tell you if you can run it.

The long and skinny is that some video cards support Open CL natively. Others don't. AMD/ATI 's 2000 series cards did not therefore making them incompatible with Final Cut Pro X. A MacBook Pro's card which is less powerful may likely be compatible though due to it's support of OpenCL.

Thanks. I just did a little research now that I'm in front of my computer finally. My MacBook Pro card is a GeForce 8600M GT. According to what I've found it has Open CL support. I need to upgrade to Snow Leopard before I download FCPX via app store. I originally was hoping to go from Leopard straight to Lion, but I found out the other day that won't be possible since Lion will only be available via app store which is nonexistent in Leopard. Apple has a way of making us spend our money.

[filmguy123]

Compressor "4.0" - did they change anything from Compressor 3.0 other than the version #

[filmguy123]

Compressor "4.0" - did they change anything from Compressor 3.0 other than the version #

found it on Apple's website - not much new, but a couple minor things.

[Fahnon]

I have two Macs. Anyone know how the licensing works? Is it like Lion where I can install on two machines or would I need to choose one?

[robotsound]

Is this a joke? No OMF export? It can edit videos at least, right? Or is that coming in version 2?

[Katten.bjornen]

Ther is a info that say that
You can have up to 10 unit with FCPX at the same registerd Apple ID in the computers as you use

[tbob]

Ther is a info that say that
You can have up to 10 unit with FCPX at the same registerd Apple ID in the computers as you use

Thanks for the info, Katten. Could you provide a link or reference?

[Kholi]

I dunno. I'm not an editor but the overview makes the new FCP X look kinda sweet going forward with projects. Going to snag a copy asap!

[mcgeedigital]

I am going to be buying this soon. How do color corrections within Final Cut X compare to Color?

Has anyone bought Motion X? I have always just used After Effects. There would need to be a really good reason for me to get it.

If you like the easy button while cc you are golden. If you require more control and finesse that color gave you, you are sol.

Try resolve.

[Buck Forester]

I don't know much about hardware... here are my Mac Pro specs, do I need to upgrade anything for FCP X?

NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT
Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro3,1
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 3.2 GHz
Number Of Processors: 2
Total Number Of Cores: 8
L2 Cache (per processor): 12 MB
Memory: 12 GB
Bus Speed: 1.6 GHz

Software - Mac OS X Version 10.6.7
Thank you.

[J Davis]

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/06/apple-releases-64-bit-final-cut-pro-x-via-mac-app-store.ars


Jordan doesn't entirely agree with Apple's assessment of the industry, though. The new color editing and grading tools, including what Jordan calls "power windows," may replace Color for most users. But, while the built-in audio editing, processing, and effects are top notch, Final Cut Pro X just isn't capable of multi-track audio recording. Also, Jordan said, "the inability to apply effects, volume, and pan settings to a track is a huge omission."

[Jesse Brauning]

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/fcp_x_first_look_martin.html

FCP7 is considered end of life by Apple as of today (read: no more support) and FCPX isn't an editor
I mean seriously. You can't open individual projects or have multiple sequences within a project or organize your footage on a per-project basis, or see both your source and sequence footage at the same time, or color correct properly, or have multiple layers of video beyond two, and seriously, what the heck is a "storyline".

EPIC FAIL, Apple.

[DOSMedia]

I don't know much about hardware... here are my Mac Pro specs, do I need to upgrade anything for FCP X?

NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT
Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro3,1
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 3.2 GHz
Number Of Processors: 2
Total Number Of Cores: 8
L2 Cache (per processor): 12 MB
Memory: 12 GB
Bus Speed: 1.6 GHz

Software - Mac OS X Version 10.6.7
Thank you.

Your golden.

Its us with that generation of mac Pros that have the ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT that need to upgrade.

[Buck Forester]

Thanks, DOSMedia!

[Fahnon]

Thanks for the info, Katten. Could you provide a link or reference?

I just called Apple to be sure. As long as you are not using it for commercial use, it can be installed on all of your machines using the same Apple ID. Also removed is the restriction on using the software on the same network concurrently. Whoo hoo!

[fuen]

Anyone know how to use custom resolutions? The 'custom' option only has two presets. Kind of lost with my anamorphic footage. Not sure if want yet. CC is also limited. Lots of stuff still missing, i have the feeling...

[cheezweezl]

No OMF + No XML + No machine control= FAIL

Say what you want about the interface. It's no cheesier than premier which everyone seems to love these days. Who cares?

But to omit these basic PRO features is just stupid. All three of these features are basic staples in any post house.

And whatever about this being a version 1 release. They could have waited a bit, huh? Releasing a pro app without basic pro features is just ridiculous.

This should be called "final cut amateur" or "final cut: YouTube edition"

[David Saraceno]

I going to remind every one once.

Keep the comments civil, and eliminate comments that are designed to disrupt the normal on-topic discussion of FCP X.

Failure to comply will result in edited or deleted posts or a ban.

[Lpowell]

Final Cut Pro X: The Missing Features (http://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/final-cut-pro-x-the-missing-features/)

[filmguy123]

Yeah, it's an easy out to say it's a version 1.0 release and not a successor to FCP 7. Sure, that may be true in many ways, but in many others ways it is not acceptable. If you rewrite FCP and don't offer "FCP 8" and EOL FCP 7 I fully expect the rewrite to not be cutting key features, saying "hey, maybe v2.0!" Come on guys. This is the NEXT Final Cut.

I would have expected this to be called "Final Cut X" and another version, "Final Cut Pro X" to have more "pro" features. This is Final Cut Prosumer, not Final Cut Profesional

[filmguy123]

Has anyone used Motion 5? This looks like a crazy good tool, especially for $50!!

Also: can anyone tell me about the magnetic timeline. Is ripple forced, or is it good for dropping in a music track and then lining up clips to time to the beat?

[Peabody]

You Mac guys will love it once you figure it out. It will make editing intuitive and fun, something we Vegas people have enjoyed for years. It's very much like Sony Vegas Pro. So much so that I may finally become a MacHead, because Apple may have picked up where Vegas left off.

[Chris Messineo]

Here is a link to the online manual: http://help.apple.com/finalcutpro/mac/10.0/

[Jesse Brauning]

FCPX: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly (http://www.digitalrebellion.com/blog/posts/final_cut_pro_x_the_good_the_bad_and_the_ugly.html )

[Chaos123x]

You Mac guys will love it once you figure it out. It will make editing intuitive and fun, something we Vegas people have enjoyed for years. It's very much like Sony Vegas Pro. So much so that I may finally become a MacHead, because Apple may have picked up where Vegas left off.

I hope it's not like Vegas that's one of the only NLE's that I hate to use and now refuse to work with. Rather use Avid or Premiere if I'm stuck on PC.

[BrandonT]

Is there any benefit to getting the new Compressor (only $50!) if I'm going to stick with FCP7 for a bit?

[Jesse Brauning]

I don't really think editing should be intuitive. Editing should be powerful and nuanced and precise. Intuitive just means a low learning curve.
A learning curve is a climb up a hill to power. A low learning curve means a low power plateau. A high learning curve means a high power plateau.

[Batutta]

Is there any benefit to getting the new Compressor (only $50!) if I'm going to stick with FCP7 for a bit?

Looks like it's still 32 bit so I guess not really. The only interesting thing is that you don't need qmaster to do distributed rendering, you just install compressor on every system you want to render with, although that probably means you have to buy a separate license for each machine. The Motion upgrade went 64 bit though, so expect a significant speed increase there.

[Matt Hoss.]

For those who already own it, how's the color correcting?

Has Color been integrated into the interface?

[fuen]

Nope, not at all. It's not bad, but i can do about the same as with the old 3-way color corrector. Maybe even less. Mostly missing my curves.

[Skilled]

does any one know..if you have a imac and a laptop..can u install it on both?

[Scott F]

"Everything just changed in post"

Potentially including the users. I'm going to start doing some research on Premiere.

[BrandonT]

does any one know..if you have a imac and a laptop..can u install it on both?


Looks like it's still 32 bit so I guess not really. The only interesting thing is that you don't need qmaster to do distributed rendering, you just install compressor on every system you want to render with, although that probably means you have to buy a separate license for each machine. The Motion upgrade went 64 bit though, so expect a significant speed increase there.

Yeah, I like that it "should" be easy to distribute to my laptop easily. I remember qmaster always crashing in the past. As far as license-- it's my understanding that you can install on several machines (which I think would apply to all three applications) as long as you are logged into the same account on the App Store.

Btw, Batutta-- I had to look up your profile image. Buckaroo Banzai sounds pretty bada--. lol. Worth a watch?

[BrandonT]

Should those of us sticking with FCP7 for now upgrade the new ProRes codecs? Or did they put out this update because FCPX doesn't come with them or something?

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1396

[Batutta]

Btw, Batutta-- I had to look up your profile image. Buckaroo Banzai sounds pretty bada--. lol. Worth a watch?

In the right spirit, yeah. Can't give it an unqualified recommendation as I don't know your taste. Watch it with some drunk friends.

[ian_h]

does any one know..if you have a imac and a laptop..can u install it on both?

Yup. Just open app store and click on purchased software.

[BrandonT]

In the right spirit, yeah. Can't give it an unqualified recommendation as I don't know your taste. Watch it with some drunk friends.

Haha, cool. Will do.

[david_p]

is there no way to actual do a "Save" or "Save as"? it seems not. does this mean that everytime i want to just go into a session (Event) and just plunk an play around but "NOT SAVE" or more specifically not "OVERWRITE" my session...now FCPX will not give me the choice and do it AUTOMATICALLY?

please Apple...dont let this be so!

ANYBODY?

david

EDIT: just found this in the FCP X manual online...

"Final Cut Pro automatically saves all the changes you make as you work on a project, which means you never have to save changes manually. Also, you can undo all of your changes up to the last time you quit and reopened Final Cut Pro by choosing Edit > Undo (or pressing Command-Z).

Changes you make to a clip in a project do not affect the clip’s source file. Thus, if you’ve made a lot of changes to a clip but want to start fresh, you can easily restore the clip to its original state by adding a new copy of the clip (located in the Event Library) to your project.

you have got to be F$CKIN kidding me! so, they really think that they are helping me and saving me time from not having to click "command S"?

incredible.

[blackcat]

"Everything just changed in post"

Potentially including the users. I'm going to start doing some research on Premiere.

Ha! I am about to have both. I already have CS 5.5, Final Cut 6 up to now, and I will probably add this to too. As long as clients/employers ask for projects done on Final Cut, it makes sense to have around. Time will tell how well it holds up.

[cheezweezl]

so i took the plunge and bought it. i'm keeping an open mind. remembering back when i first learned fcp and it was all greek to me, much like this new app is right now.

a few initial thoughts...

1. why is this called final cut pro? this is not even close to the same application. it bears no resemblance. if it turns out to be cool, fine. but calling it final cut pro is like chevy putting out a minivan and calling it the new corvette.

2. if this is the PRO version of imovie which is a more accurate way to describe it, then why do we still have all the cute little consumer buttons and what not?

3. why can't we save manually or "save as"

4. where does the media go?

5. fcp was never good at project organization. left alone, all media from every project would live in your documents folder. but at least we could use system settings for each project to define where media goes and what scratch disk to use.

6. right off the bat, i feel like i'm using a toy. it seems very easy to learn, but i have already learned fcp, and i want all my old options. many of which seem to be gone.

hopefully apple is listening. they are getting their butt handed to them by the fcp community today. they really should have done some more r&d and worked on it a bit more before releasing it.

[PabloOzzy]

Sad- from all the posts filling up the web...the one Im hearing most is "hopefully apple is listening".

Hate to tell you but apple had years of complaints by the fans for needed features / fixes in FCP and an additional year at least to see the reaction when Adobe brought out a rock solid and lightening fast REAL PRO editor.

and this is how they treat their professional user base...and you still think that maybe they will listen?

Sad

[mcgeedigital]

hopefully apple is listening. they are getting their butt handed to them by the fcp community today. they really should have done some more r&d and worked on it a bit more before releasing it.

I knew the fix was in when the head guy they picked for FCPX development was the guy that designed imovie.

[david_p]

so i took the plunge and bought it. i'm keeping an open mind. remembering back when i first learned fcp and it was all greek to me, much like this new app is right now.

a few initial thoughts...

1. why is this called final cut pro? this is not even close to the same application. it bears no resemblance. if it turns out to be cool, fine. but calling it final cut pro is like chevy putting out a minivan and calling it the new corvette.

2. if this is the PRO version of imovie which is a more accurate way to describe it, then why do we still have all the cute little consumer buttons and what not?

3. why can't we save manually or "save as"

4. where does the media go?

5. fcp was never good at project organization. left alone, all media from every project would live in your documents folder. but at least we could use system settings for each project to define where media goes and what scratch disk to use.

6. right off the bat, i feel like i'm using a toy. it seems very easy to learn, but i have already learned fcp, and i want all my old options. many of which seem to be gone.

hopefully apple is listening. they are getting their butt handed to them by the fcp community today. they really should have done some more r&d and worked on it a bit more before releasing it.

im convinced now that Apple is ditching the professional market. that within itself i could absorb if i had to and could respect if that was their choice to do so but...for them to stand up in front of 1,800 professional editors and industry guests and boast how great this will be compared to FCPS at their big "demo" 6 weeks blows my mind.

the wool was pulled over our eyes and im PISSED!

Apple if you want to scale down to a very great "consumer" product then please...just say so. please dont try to pass it off as a professional piece of software because it just "isnt"! i completely agree that there are some very powerful and nifty things in FCP X but and this is a big but...the real "PROFESSIONAL ESSENTIALS"...are NO WHERE TO BE FOUND!

NO "SAVE AS"?

david

[blackcat]

I knew the fix was in when the head guy they picked for FCPX development was the guy that designed imovie.

Ha! There is so much drama today. It will probably work out fine. The EDL and multi cam part is a bit weird; I would hope that they work that out soon. Have you run Final Cut X yet? I only ask, because you said a lot of Color seems left out. My main concern is Color and the audio post workflow. I was thinking I would get whatever new version of Logic hopefully comes out to help with audio work too. At least I will have this and premier to pick from for now.

[J Davis]

I knew the fix was in when the head guy they picked for FCPX development was the guy that designed imovie.

If you mean Randy Ubillos then he was working on Final Cut before he moved to working on iMovie. He goes way back to when FCP was named Keygrip. He also created Premiere long long ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Cut_Pro#History

[ccastro]

I don't have FCP X and I don't believe I'll buy it considering the overwhelming negative response I've seen all across different boards. The "Missing Pro Pieces" as many people have stated are good enough reason for me to dive into Premiere now. I had heard this was coming but I held out hope only to be disappointed. Oh well, I can still work with FCP 7 until I learn a new software and get back into the fight. :thumbsup:

[Chaos123x]

I don't have FCP X and I don't believe I'll buy it considering the overwhelming negative response I've seen all across different boards. The "Missing Pro Pieces" as many people have stated are good enough reason for me to dive into Premiere now. I had heard this was coming but I held out hope only to be disappointed. Oh well, I can still work with FCP 7 until I learn a new software and get back into the fight. :thumbsup:

No reason to ditch FCP if 7 works for you then use 7.

I'm still using FCP 6, and will probably use that until FCP X gets multicam and some bugs worked out. Not ever going back to Premiere.

[filmguy123]

I got FCP X and I am playing with it now. This is a serious question, can anyone help:

How the frick am I suppose to precisely edit my cuts to a soundtrack if I can't turn ripple off??? The only way I can tell is to edit linearly, is there a way to do this where I edit a certain section to the beat of the soundtrack just how I want in the middle of the song, and then at random parts around the song and come back to the beginning? Right now it just slides my clips around everywhere, and it's pissing me off.

[Scott F]

Congrats, Apple!

http://www.virginmedia.com/images/new_coke_2.jpg

Just looking at some of these initial problems, "negative responses" & various issues. Ooofah. I guess I'll keep plunking away on FCP6. It ain't broke.

[David Saraceno]

I knew the fix was in when the head guy they picked for FCPX development was the guy that designed imovie.

You mean Randy Ubillos?

The guy who also wrote Premiere and Final Cut Pro?

C'mon.

[filmguy123]

I got FCP X and I am playing with it now. This is a serious question, can anyone help:

How the frick am I suppose to precisely edit my cuts to a soundtrack if I can't turn ripple off??? The only way I can tell is to edit linearly, is there a way to do this where I edit a certain section to the beat of the soundtrack just how I want in the middle of the song, and then at random parts around the song and come back to the beginning? Right now it just slides my clips around everywhere, and it's pissing me off.

For anyone else interested, I found a workaround. You can insert a gap "option+W" and make it the length of your project, lets say 10 minutes. Then drop your audio in. Now, work with all of your video footage above the gap, and it functions just like a non-ripple timeline, so you can edit precisely to the beat.

[cheezweezl]

Ha! There is so much drama today. It will probably work out fine. The EDL and multi cam part is a bit weird; I would hope that they work that out soon. Have you run Final Cut X yet? I only ask, because you said a lot of Color seems left out. My main concern is Color and the audio post workflow. I was thinking I would get whatever new version of Logic hopefully comes out to help with audio work too. At least I will have this and premier to pick from for now.

i had the same attitude before i bought it and ran it. but no, this thing, as it stands, is a toy. that demo was a nice way to show all the bells and whistles and it got me excited. but the thing is, all that stuff is not every day use stuff. that's where they screwed up. i'm talking about simple stuff that is gone gone gone.

one of my most used key commands, ctrl+v (add edit) which splits the current clip (or the entire stack of clips on the timeline) at the playhead. gone. not just the key command, the entire function is gone. that is an essential part of my music video workflow. how about dragging a clip from the viewer into the canvas and having the video pop onto the timeline at the playhead on the v1 track. lol, yeah right. first of all there is no v1 track and second of all dragging into the cavas window doesnt work. if there are no tracks, how do we define where we want video to go without manually dragging to the timeline every time? custom window layouts. nope.

some people speculated that you would be able to set up a traditional fcp interface with browser, viewer, canvas, and timeline. nope. no legacy mode whatsoever. bummed so far...

[melodyj]

I really dont understand. Why does everyone keep saying this? Because the interface is actually enjoyable to look at?

I haven't had the chance to download it yet, but I'm looking forward to it. Honestly with the timeline enhancements it looks to me like it will pilot a lot like Sony Vegas does, which I personally think makes for much faster/pleasant editing.

No, it's because FCPX doesn't support EDL or XML files, cannot do tape-based capture, and no longer has the ability to bring in projects from older versions of FCP (or send them back which is sometimes key when working with other editors who have older versions).

What happens when you need to send your audio into Soundtrack Pro?
What happens when you need to use 3rd party hardware?
What happens when you'd rather finish in Adobe Media Encoder than Compressor?
What happens when a client requests an update on a FCP7 project you did last year?


Looks like Apple has made some exciting updates, but for the immediate time being I think their target audience is a different crowd: http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/imovie-to-finalcutpro/

[filmguy123]

i had the same attitude before i bought it and ran it. but no, this thing, as it stands, is a toy. that demo was a nice way to show all the bells and whistles and it got me excited. but the thing is, all that stuff is not every day use stuff. that's where they screwed up. i'm talking about simple stuff that is gone gone gone.

one of my most used key commands, ctrl+v (add edit) which splits the current clip (or the entire stack of clips on the timeline) at the playhead. gone. not just the key command, the entire function is gone. that is an essential part of my music video workflow. how about dragging a clip from the viewer into the canvas and having the video pop onto the timeline at the playhead on the v1 track. lol, yeah right. first of all there is no v1 track and second of all dragging into the cavas window doesnt work. if there are no tracks, how do we define where we want video to go without manually dragging to the timeline every time? custom window layouts. nope.

some people speculated that you would be able to set up a traditional fcp interface with browser, viewer, canvas, and timeline. nope. no legacy mode whatsoever. bummed so far...

OK I've had as many frustrations and you and am feeling roughly the same way... HOWEVER... as I use it more I am discovering more things. In fact, everything you mentioned is still there. Instead of CTRL+V, the key is now CMD+B, and you have to first drag and select whatever clips you want to be effects. So if you have 12 tracks you drag over them and then CMD+B and it will do what CTRL+V used to do, at the playhead.

As far as the V1 track one at dragging in to play at the playhead, I have already found a workaround. First create a long "gap" or slug as the "base track" (even though they aren't labelled). Anything you drag in now will be on the imaginative V2 track and will snap into the playhead and not be affected by ripple.

My solutions here are not to excuse the program for some of it's STUPID omissions, which I seem to be finding more and more of, but rather to provide real solutions to people who want to find them. I spent $300 and want to get some use out of it! Ha.

And on a different note, for as much frustrations as I am having, I am quite pleased about a number of other things (render speeds and mixed footage and the numerous filters/effects and a number of other very slick features). Of course, all I can think is "why couldn't this have been Final Cut Pro 8... the best of FCP7 + these new features." Honestly... and I bashed people for saying this before it launched but I feel this way now, it really is iMovie Pro and is geared towards selling more Macs to lower end prosumers.

Heck, there's not even a save or save as button.

[Moseph]

All of this doesn't come as much of a surprise to me. Remember when they did virtually the same thing with Quicktime? Jumped from version 7 to X, completely redoing the whole thing and taking away lots of the functionality as well (not like there are a lot of functions with Quicktime to begin with, but you can't export with the new one whereas before, you could).

[filmguy123]

i know it's 1.0 but it's already crashed on me a few times, and while it's often blazing fast it does sort of feel sluggish at times and acts weird.

maybe it's my crappy 12-core/16gb RAM/ati 5870/512gb SSD pos computer

[mcgeedigital]

You mean Randy Ubillos?

The guy who also wrote Premiere and Final Cut Pro?

C'mon.

C'mon yourself.

if this is his crowning achievement he may want to reconsider a 2nd career doing something else.

[filmguy123]

if this is his crowning achievement he may want to reconsider a 2nd career doing something else.

1.) it's pretty obvious you didn't know he was the creator of Premiere and FCP, because that would have been reason for confidence in this release
2.) it's pretty obvious Randy works for APPLE, not himself. Given Apple's overall direction, it seems clear that his job was to build a NLE that would expand Apple's market share and appeal to the masses. He did a fantastic job.

Unfortunately, this is a bum deal for the truly pro market. Even for high-end prosumers (myself)... I can live without XML/EDL/Multicam but some of these other major interface shifts and watering down of features is not gonna fly. It was FCP that got me into the Mac, perhaps it is FCPX that will get me out. May need to look at Windows 7 + Premiere 6.0 when it launches.

[cheezweezl]

OK I've had as many frustrations and you and am feeling roughly the same way... HOWEVER... as I use it more I am discovering more things. In fact, everything you mentioned is still there. Instead of CTRL+V, the key is now CMD+B, and you have to first drag and select whatever clips you want to be effects. So if you have 12 tracks you drag over them and then CMD+B and it will do what CTRL+V used to do, at the playhead.

As far as the V1 track one at dragging in to play at the playhead, I have already found a workaround. First create a long "gap" or slug as the "base track" (even though they aren't labelled). Anything you drag in now will be on the imaginative V2 track and will snap into the playhead and not be affected by ripple.

My solutions here are not to excuse the program for some of it's STUPID omissions, which I seem to be finding more and more of, but rather to provide real solutions to people who want to find them. I spent $300 and want to get some use out of it! Ha.

And on a different note, for as much frustrations as I am having, I am quite pleased about a number of other things (render speeds and mixed footage and the numerous filters/effects and a number of other very slick features). Of course, all I can think is "why couldn't this have been Final Cut Pro 8... the best of FCP7 + these new features." Honestly... and I bashed people for saying this before it launched but I feel this way now, it really is iMovie Pro and is geared towards selling more Macs to lower end prosumers.

Heck, there's not even a save or save as button.

i hear ya, and i congratulate you on your patience with this POS thus far. however, i'm not interested in workarounds etc. that still don't get the job done as fast as the old version. this was marketed to us as a revolutionary new tool. if this was truly the case, all of our gripes about missing features would be just gripes about having to learn the new way to do things. i don't want to have to "trick" the app into letting me have a non-ripple timeline. that should be an option!!

how about this? this week i'm editing a hip hop video with booty shaking girls. next week it's a christmas video for a church. if i don't remember to unmount the drive with the booty shaking, that booty footage is gonna show up when i open the church project, with the client in the room. furthermore, it seems i can't let too many projects live on one drive as they will all open every time i start fcp. can you say mess?

i appreciate 64 bit and the speed it is supposed to bring. other than that, this software is for soccer moms with a little more savvy than the other moms.

unless something big changes, i will ride the fcp7 train for as long as i can, then switch to whatever everyone else starts using to stay compatible... avid, anyone?

dear apple, if it aint broke, don't fix it. and for god's sake don't break it...

[filmguy123]

one more money grab that really ruffles my feathers: Compressor 4 is basically Compressor 3 with absolute minimal change, certainly no big under the hood advances. Yet "Send to Compressor" from FCP X says "you must have compressor (4) installed" and won't utilize Compressor 3. CHEAP.

[filmguy123]

how about this? this week i'm editing a hip hop video with booty shaking girls. next week it's a christmas video for a church. if i don't remember to unmount the drive with the booty shaking, that booty footage is gonna show up when i open the church project, with the client in the room. furthermore, it seems i can't let too many projects live on one drive as they will all open every time i start fcp. can you say mess?


Yeah I just thought of this, though not from that angle, haha. I was thinking I work on a lot of pretty massive projects (sports highlights, weddings, lots of source footage). FCP works like iPhoto, you don't load in your footage when you open the project, the events leaves it accessible ALL the time. This is going to get very messy if I were to do 2 years worth of projects, and yeah... EVERYTHING is visual and loads in.

[filmguy123]

there does not appear to be a way to retime a clip to a custom speed percentage? I can only get 2x, 4x, 8x, 20x?
---> EDIT: You initially set one of these speeds, but then just drag a handle to adjust anywhere in between or elsewhere. These are the starting points.

And the rolling rubberband tool for speed, where you drag the clip to the desired length and it sets the speed appears to be gone?
----> EDIT: this works seamlessly with the dragging of handles; no need for rubberband tool it's essentially built in

* can't add a transition to a clip if it's not in the "primary storyline" AKA "v1 track"? There goes my whole "put a slug/gap into V1 track and edit on top of it to turn off ripple" work around.
-----> EDIT: you just select the clips in the higher tracks and say 'create storyline' and then you can edit transitions


* shape mask for color correcting is cool, except it appears to HAVE to be a circle? I can't easily customize the shape? I know I can do that by duplicating the layer and making a mask and color correcting the bottom layer but wasn't the point to make it faster? Oh wait, oops, I'm not sure anymore if I can actually do that... better go check

* I had to flip a clip 180 cause it was shot upside down on a gopro. I added an effect, so it added the effect upside down (even the footage has been corrected to appear right side up). Now, I cannot rotate 180 the effect separately, so it is stuck upside down. Maybe I can get around it by nesting or rendering + reimporting.

* background rendering does work in the background... but not while playing back the timeline elsewhere, or adjusting filters or color correction or scale/transform on other clips. basically if you are just mousing around or zooming in/out or doing basic stuff. This is a big step up but I feel like it's not 100% true background rendering.

* does not appear I can set a "work area" to export; it will automatically export the entire timeline. So if I've done some stuff and left it later down the timeline, it's coming with me. So I better delete it... ugh.

* can't edit transitions to change what percentage they start at (i.e. start at 25% into transition animation)

* can't speed ramp titles/generated clips

* effects have one slider "amount" and a checkbox on some "match iMovie" - YES!! Professional controls of effects! Over 100 options per effect... 1%? 2%? 3%? etc.! joy

[cheezweezl]

i have said from day one of using fcp, that they need to take project management ques from pro tools. it may be the same with avid since they are the same company, but i don't know avid. i do know pro tools. in PT, when you create a new project (called session), it creates a folder on whatever drive you choose with the entire directory structure inside. keeps it very clean. if i need to pass that project off, i simply copy the folder. everything needed to make the session work is inside. i work this way in fcp, but it's not automatic. for each new project i create a folder, then use system settings to assign that folder as the scratch disk. then if i'm careful, and keep tabs on everything, i can keep a clean folder for each project, like pro tools does for me. i always griped about what a pain this was to do manually. now it seems that i had it good the whole time...lol.

[photonashville]

That's exactly how I have worked in FCP 7. Now with FCPX, file management is a mess. I have multiple raids and computers and sometimes I work at home at night and sometimes at the studio during the day. I need very neat and tidy file management, doing everything manually in FCP 7 made that work very well. FCPX is a mess in that regard.


i have said from day one of using fcp, that they need to take project management ques from pro tools. it may be the same with avid since they are the same company, but i don't know avid. i do know pro tools. in PT, when you create a new project (called session), it creates a folder on whatever drive you choose with the entire directory structure inside. keeps it very clean. if i need to pass that project off, i simply copy the folder. everything needed to make the session work is inside. i work this way in fcp, but it's not automatic. for each new project i create a folder, then use system settings to assign that folder as the scratch disk. then if i'm careful, and keep tabs on everything, i can keep a clean folder for each project, like pro tools does for me. i always griped about what a pain this was to do manually. now it seems that i had it good the whole time...lol.

[david_p]

i know it's 1.0 but it's already crashed on me a few times, and while it's often blazing fast it does sort of feel sluggish at times and acts weird.

maybe it's my crappy 12-core/16gb RAM/ati 5870/512gb SSD pos computer

this is the first and only time that ive smiled to day...although in a sickly way. it must be your crappy 12 core for sure. my guess is that the new macminis that will be out next will be better suited for FCP X since they are geared to lower end users from iMovie that want aspire to FCP...X.

[David Saraceno]

C'mon yourself.

if this is his crowning achievement he may want to reconsider a 2nd career doing something else.

Perhaps.

How many hours have you spent with the new release?

Can you point on what you would like changed with a future release, or comment on anything that has been improved?

What is missing that you feel should be in the first update to the application?

Let us know.

[blackcat]

Now I am stuck with a puzzle of deciding whether or not to buy this. I have always cut Final Cut in the past; I currently own CS5.5. I have a new system, where I wanted to install the new Final Cut. I keep my FCP6 on the old system. It is a fairly cheap for sure. Maybe it would be worth it to get a head start on learning the new interface. That way I could choose Premier or FCP X on the new system. I got off track most of the day pondering this question and looking at posts on here.

[Jimmy Moss]

This to too bad, hopefully they will add features but ya, no legacy support to fcp 7..... thats like if BMW bought Hundyi and then discontinued the BMW line and stuck the label on the Hundyi and called it new and improved.

[blackcat]

I am stuck trying to make out what is going on like everyone else, but one thing that is for sure is something needed to be done about the old Final Cut at some point. It was still 32 bit, and it had some stability issues for long project files. I am just not sure if this was the best answer. Time will tell.

[Buck Forester]

Bummed... I was really excited about FCP X, even so much as postponing learning my FCP 6 in detail because this would be so different, why bother? All over the net I'm hearing disappointment about FCP X. Maybe they had to rush it without many features because they promised a June release date? I dunno. I won't be getting it anytime soon and am contemplating an upgrade to FCS 3. This was one piece of software I was really anticipating. Apple has the resources to do whatever they want with software, not sure why this is happening. Maybe the price really does reflect what you get, it did seem too good to be true. I'd rather pay $1000 and have it done right. I'm not bashing Apple, I'm just disappointed at all the feedback is all.

[nantnee]

Show me the money!!!

[ksteiger]

This is really sad. I think Avid is offering a crossgrade right now. Might be a good time to take advantage if that.

[thekreative]

I'm trying to be positive and have been learning it all day, but I'm still so confused with the choice of effects with no controls. i.e. super8 with an amount slider..... when do I use this? On an iPhone, great. In a pro app.???

[Jarek Zabczynski]

This whole thing just plain sucks now because it seems like I will forever need 2 versions of Final Cut installed just in case I need to go back to an older project. Even if FCPX gets the ability to do it in the future, there's NO WAY it will be 100% compatible will all my plugins and settings from the old. Seems like FCP7 will have a permanent home on all my Macs until pretty much forever...great...

[Mickey G]

FCPX 1st day impressions: Buy it, Learn it, Love it!

Edit on your NLE of choice if you must have the missing “pro” features but be ready when FCPX gets all those features implemented! (fingers crossed)
FCPX is a serious NLE when you really dissect what’s going on! Sure there will be Growing Pains but OMG!!

Oh and FCPX never crashed on me on an I7 iMac running off a USB 2.0 external. I threw everything I had at it.

All day I’ve just been messing around off and on (while waiting on renders on my FCP6 box lol)

It’s been a roller coaster, up and down, love it hate it.
However at the end of the day I seriously think the building blocks are in place to have something really special and to write off FCPX completely with less than 24hrs of use I’d say is jumping the gun just a little.

IMHO

[Rick Burnett]

My personal opinion is that if FCPX doesn't do something you need, do not buy it. Wait until those features exist. I think there is enough precedence in software that waiting for something you NEED and expecting Apple to deliver it when they've made ZERO promises is just asking for you to be upset even more in the future. If there are solutions to what you need now, and I say need, not want, then that is what I would focus on.

I've spent all day reading reviews on FCPX and while I do think it looks neat, I am passing on it for now. MANY of the features we use don't exist now. Many of our plugins don't work. Just because something is brand new doesn't mean you need to use it immediately. When Leopard came out it took over a year for all my plugins (audio) to be available on it. I waited and was glad I did. Do you really want to change over to something that is NOT proven.

Sure, I bet there are some really cool things in FCPX. Those cool things aren't going to give me my workflow if it is missing. If we want precedence, look at Quicktime X. How long has it been out? The professional features they removed are STILL not included in the latest updates. If they are not updating QTX after all this time, what makes you think they will update FCPX any time soon as well?

One can guess all day about the motivations or desires of Apple moving forward, but honestly, you'd really need to talk to them to know for sure. I'm disappointed with FCPX, and I'm not afraid to say that. At least there are other options for me that will fit my needs more.

[Jarek Zabczynski]

I want to like FCPX, but it's far from ready. FCP7 will be a perfectly viable editor for me for at least the next couple years if need be, and I think many of us are in the same boat.

[J Davis]

Anger and resentment is connected to investment. There are a lot of people who have invested time into learning hot keys or developing workflows.

People's disappointment with FCPX is more than just whats visible on the surface. It can be about the abandoning of whats invested and a sense of betrayal.

[robotsound]

If we want precedence, look at Quicktime X. How long has it been out? The professional features they removed are STILL not included in the latest updates. If they are not updating QTX after all this time, what makes you think they will update FCPX any time soon as well?

Yes, exactly! And remember Shake? The $10,000 per license highly professional compositing program they bought? They lowered the price to $500 (good) and made it Mac only (not so good). Then they let it stagnate before discontinuing it entirely?

I have little hope that they are going to add all the pro features back in at this point. FCP X will be good for wedding, vacation, and skateboard videos, but they just threw away soooooo many essential professional workflow features. It seems clear that their priority is to sell more units to the low end (more of them, lower expectations) than the high end (less of them, more picky). Maybe it's a good business strategy for them financially, but it basically leaves professional editors looking for other options.

[robotsound]

Anger and resentment is connected to investment. There are a lot of people who have invested time into learning hot keys or developing workflows.

People's disappointment with FCPX is more than just whats visible on the surface. It can be about the abandoning of whats invested and a sense pf betrayal.

I think the frustration a lot of people feel about this is not about the interface (these things change), but rather the fact that it simply can not be used on larger productions in its current form. It's almost as if a car company released a car that couldn't drive on freeways, but promised that a freeway module would be added at some unspecified future date.

[filmguy123]

Anger and resentment is connected to investment. There are a lot of people who have invested time into learning hot keys or developing workflows.

People's disappointment with FCPX is more than just whats visible on the surface. It can be about the abandoning of whats invested and a sense pf betrayal.

Yes. Waiting YEARS for a proper update to Final Cut Pro (since FCP6, since FCP7 was really FCP 6.5 and added hardly anything new). All this waiting to be LIED to. If Apple wanted to discontinue support they should have at least been up front about it, instead of misleading the pro market into thinking this was a pro tool.

So sad. At this point, saying you are a pro and edit using FCP X would be sort of embarrassing. Even the included effects scream "consumer", save for a handful... most of that handful was carried over from last release... sigh.

[Exact]

FCP X will be good for wedding, vacation, and skateboard videos, but they just threw away soooooo many essential professional workflow features.


Sorry you look down on these things so much..... we shoot weddings a lot with multi cameras and FCPX is completely useless for us! No multicam, no Multiclip sequence (used on every project), no timecode on DSLR, terrible audio sync implementation..... so please, don't lump profession wedding video with home movies ;)

[Postmaster]

LOL, looks like the FCP X release was one big free marketing and promotion campaign for Premiere.
Never seen so many guys in FCP/Apple forums saying "That was the last straw - I switch over".

On the other hand, I think from Apples standpoint they did their homework.
They looked at that new breed of DSLR filmmakers and realized, that they want to edit the same way they shoot.
Fast, fancy, stylish and without much fuzz, hassle, learning curve - output mainly for Internet and everything on a laptop of course (workstation are so last year).

So like it or not - they probably hit the nail with FCPX

Frank

[filmguy123]

LOL, looks like the FCP X release was one big free marketing and promotion campaign for Premiere.

Never seen so many guys in FCP/Apple forums saying "That was the last straw - I switch over".

Frank

yeah and I really like Apple, too. It was FCP that got me into the Mac ecosystem.

Seeing as how Premiere runs better on Win7 than OSX, and Vegas is available on Windows, and Windows hardware is way freaking cheaper... Win7 + Adobe CS5.5 is likely in my future.

I will be spending the rest of my week writing hate mail to Apple.

Does anyone know if it is possible to get a refund from the Mac App Store?

[SPZ]

My problem with switching to CS5 is no Prores editing. The FInal Cut Pro ecosystem worked well because transcoding to prores made for an excellent workflow. Avid has their excellent codec, but Adobe doesn't. Working with not optimal codecs like H264 or wathever natively is not a solution for me.

[mshakeshaft]

yeah and I really like Apple, too. It was FCP that got me into the Mac ecosystem.

Seeing as how Premiere runs better on Win7 than OSX, and Vegas is available on Windows, and Windows hardware is way freaking cheaper... Win7 + Adobe CS5.5 is likely in my future.



I have run Premier on both Mac and PC, There doesn't seem to be a difference for me. It is certainly very good on my Mac Pro. Which is my solution to this sorry state of affairs.


My problem with switching to CS5 is no Prores editing. The FInal Cut Pro ecosystem worked well because transcoding to prores made for an excellent workflow. Avid has their excellent codec, but Adobe doesn't. Working with not optimal codecs like H264 or wathever natively is not a solution for me.

I am interested to know why you want to edit in ProRes, I thought the big selling point of Premier was the Mercury engine, so that you didn't have to transcode? It has worked with everything I have thrown at it. Thanks for the info.

[Postmaster]

Besides that, Premiere is reading and editing ProRes just fine on Mac and PC (if you have Quicktime installed).

Frank

[cheezweezl]

Can you export to a pro codec from premiere?

[Postmaster]

No.

But there is an encoding program (forgot the name) that can on PC - but you have to render it out before.

[SPZ]

For color correction, compositing, titling, etc its just much better to work on a superior codec. This is well documented online. As a nice example go check out Zacuto's First DSLR Shootout (not the new 1 sensor camera one), where when doing post production it was clearly shown how important was to transcode to a superior codec with h264 footage.

[florisvaneck]

I think you can. I can export to ProRes with Media Encoder. As you can export with Media Encoder from Premiere Pro, it should work fine.

[maarek]

You can only export prores from Premiere if you have FCP7 installed on the same computer. But Premiere CS5 works pretty well for me as it's easy to edit DSLR's natively, RED natively etc. Only problem is the master-codec that Premiere misses. You can get the cineform codec, which is great.

Transcoding is totally unnecessary. It will not improve quality one bit.

[florisvaneck]

yeah and I really like Apple, too. It was FCP that got me into the Mac ecosystem.

Seeing as how Premiere runs better on Win7 than OSX, and Vegas is available on Windows, and Windows hardware is way freaking cheaper... Win7 + Adobe CS5.5 is likely in my future.

I will be spending the rest of my week writing hate mail to Apple.

Does anyone know if it is possible to get a refund from the Mac App Store?

Refund: http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/salespolicies.html

[scapsinger]

If you mean Randy Ubillos then he was working on Final Cut before he moved to working on iMovie. He goes way back to when FCP was named Keygrip. He also created Premiere long long ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Cut_Pro#History

So let me get this right...with all the shortcomings of the first couple of versions of Premiere AND Final Cut, and with all the negative comments over the years about Premiere in general, does it really make a lot of sense to put this guy in charge? Sure he's got the history on his side, but isnt' Apple all about the NEXT history, not looking back, etc etc etc?

It seems that hiring the historical creator of these apps is looking backward, but maybe not. I don't know the guy, so maybe Apple sees his genius. It seems the rest of the editing community does not.

[Phil1076]

Just to clarify a few things about what people said:

Premiere on Windows CAN edit Prores; just install http://support.apple.com/downloads/Apple_ProRes_QuickTime_Decoder_1_0_for_Windows

Premiere on Windows CANNOT, however, export to Prores.

Premiere on Windows can BOTH edit and export to DNxHD; you just need to install the AVID codecs (http://avid.custkb.com/avid/app/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=392959)

[photonashville]

Refund: http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/salespolicies.html

Electronic software downloads are not refundable as their policies are written.

[Skilled]

I am wondering. How do you name your projects if there is NO save as button?

[David Saraceno]

Done a little clean following one person's unfortunate first post.

Thanks

[stoneinapond]

In the beginning when you create a new project.

[mcgeedigital]

Perhaps.

How many hours have you spent with the new release?

Can you point on what you would like changed with a future release, or comment on anything that has been improved?

What is missing that you feel should be in the first update to the application?

Let us know.

This sums up my feelings rather well:

http://podcasts.creativecow.net/final-cut-studio-podcast/why-we-cant-use-final-cut-pro-x-at-our-companies

[simonpwood]

In the beginning when you create a new project.

In Premiere I will sometimes edit different versions of the same project - the core edit might remain in which case I just save different names (Music Video Cut1 / Cut 2 / Cut 3 etc) - or when I am experimenting with pacing or order I will go off on different tangents and save them under new names, while not affecting the core edit. So will this not be possible with FCPX (insofar as you cant make changes and save under new names of the same project)?

[scapsinger]

In Premiere I will sometimes edit different versions of the same project - the core edit might remain in which case I just save different names (Music Video Cut1 / Cut 2 / Cut 3 etc) - or when I am experimenting with pacing or order I will go off on different tangents and save them under new names, while not affecting the core edit. So will this not be possible with FCPX (insofar as you cant make changes and save under new names of the same project)?

FYI - you can create multiple versions of a single edit within the same project, all without affecting your original edit, and without cluttering up your hard drive unnecessarily with multiple projects.

Not sure if you realized that, or if you just prefer to have completely different project files for each edit. Me personally, I just create a new sequence. You could even just create separate bins in your project for each edit and accomplish the same thing, if you were concerned about accidentally overwriting an edit for some reason.

[TheReverend]

I am wondering. How do you name your projects if there is NO save as button?

As far as I know, the "projects" are saved always. Kinda like an app on your phone, you don't need to save. It always saves itself.

But the structure and terminology for Projects, Events, Storyline, etc are quite a bit different than what we are used to. Might want to check out this: http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/fcp_x_first_look_martin.html

[mcgeedigital]

From Walter Biscardi's twitter:

"Found out today #fcpx will never be able to open an #fcp project. Too big a change in project structure."

[Chris Messineo]

From Walter Biscardi's twitter:

"Found out today #fcpx will never be able to open an #fcp project. Too big a change in project structure."

So sad. I really never imagined this would happen. This complete level of disdain for the current user base.

I think I need to cut my losses and go with the Premiere Crossgrade.

[robotsound]

Sorry you look down on these things so much..... we shoot weddings a lot with multi cameras and FCPX is completely useless for us!

Sorry Exact, I meant no disrespect. I have a friend who is going to edit his own wedding videos, and he is going to purchase FCP X before he starts that project. I tried to warn him. I agree that lack of multicam support for a multi-camera shoot would be extremely inconvenient! Sounds like a step back to Premiere (the original one in the 90's) or D/Vision on DOS or something.

[Brian@202020]

So sad. I really never imagined this would happen. This complete level of disdain for the current user base.

I think I need to cut my losses and go with the Premiere Crossgrade.

I came from Premiere and went to FCP4.5 (HD). Unless it's changed in a major way I would never go back. Back then Premiere was lacking so many features and wasn't nearly as intuitive as FCP was. I've been messing around with FCPX for the last few days and I'm starting to get the hang of it. I just hope Apple addresses some of the big issues like FCP legacy support, XML, OMF, multi cam, etc. I'm sure they will in the coming weeks/months, until then just keep using FCP7.

[Barry_Green]

FCP4.5 was... what, 2004? 2005? The Premiere of today is nothing whatsoever like it was in 2004. It has changed in ways that the word "major" can't even begin to encompass.

[Rick Burnett]

FCP4.5 was... what, 2004? 2005? The Premiere of today is nothing whatsoever like it was in 2004. It has changed in ways that the word "major" can't even begin to encompass.

I don't even use Premiere that much and even I can see this. I've had to tell a lot of people who know the Premiere of old that they REALLY need to take another look. I was impressed with what they did. In fact, for the last few months, that is where I have been throwing things together because I found it's just less of a hassle for me than even FCP6. (I never upgraded to 7, was waiting on X). If it's not important, and I am using MTS footage, Premiere is a no brainer.

[mcgeedigital]

FCP4.5 was... what, 2004? 2005? The Premiere of today is nothing whatsoever like it was in 2004. It has changed in ways that the word "major" can't even begin to encompass.

Agreed CS 5.5 is a complete overhaul and quite good.

[Rick Burnett]

Agreed CS 5.5 is a complete overhaul and quite good.

As is CS5 as well.

[Gary Huff]

I'm using both Premiere CS5.5 and FCP 7 and more often than not I'm frustrated with what FCP doesn't do that Premiere CS5.5 does than vice-versa.

[scapsinger]

FCP4.5 was... what, 2004? 2005? The Premiere of today is nothing whatsoever like it was in 2004. It has changed in ways that the word "major" can't even begin to encompass.

Agreed.

A quick 1st person account (call it a "history lesson") for anyone who has never really looked into Premiere Pro, or for anyone who hasn't really used Premiere in the last 10 years:



I started using FCP in 2001, but I switched to Premiere in 2002 when it was Premiere 6.5 (not "Premiere Pro" but still, 6.5 was quite good and never gave me trouble). When Premiere Pro was released, it was revolutionary in many ways, but being a complete rewrite of the application, it had some issues for some people. Again, I never had a problem, but the issues that other people had were real nonetheless. What the "Pro" rewrite brought was HD support, 24p support, Photoshop layer sequence support, a bunch of audio editing and track capabilities, and new workflows to incorporate After Effects inside Premiere Pro (not quite "Dynamic Link" yet..and if you don't know what that means, keep reading).




Premiere Pro 2.0 (CS2) brought in multicam editing and Dynamic Link...the ability to actually import After Effects projects without rendering! Sure, if you had massive comps with 100 layers and effects galore, you'd be stupid not to just render it, but if you were doing standard title sequences, montages, or other less elaborate comps, it was perfect and a HUGE time (and hard drive space) saver.




Premiere Pro CS3 was released in 2007 (4 years ago!) and came along with the introduction of Adobe's now-standard suite packaging, Creative Suite. The only significant changes in PPro at this time were alongside of Encore, which was now bundled. Encore CS3 added us Blu-ray authoring and Flash authoring (exporting your disc projects to little mini-websites...awesome if you've never tried it). The BIG news, however, was that Premiere Pro CS3 brought Premiere back to the Mac platform. Of course, that development explains the lack of additional development on the application itself.




Premiere Pro CS4 came the following year and brought extensive native support for virtually every tapeless format. Not entirely perfect, but it was great to be able to work with multiple formats in the same project, on the same timeline, all without having to transcode. There were also improvements to Dynamic Link, allowing Encore CS4 to import PPro sequences without rendering and automatically updating with any changes.




And of course, most people are much more familiar with CS5 now that it's been out a year (and recently updated with a .5 upgrade). So most people generally understand that Premiere Pro editors have been working in 64-bit for editing and exporting for a while now, and the Mercury Playback features that let you use the GPU in connection with your CPU to playback all kinds of multi-layered, multi-format video sequences like it was no big deal.


So now that you know all that, I still wonder why so few people actually download the trial and check it for themselves? I even know some FCP editors who OWN the CS5 Production Suite (for After Effects and Photoshop) but they never have bothered to launch Premiere Pro CS5 to see how it works.

Makes a man sad to see all the wasted hours waiting for Apple to fix something nice for you, then to be told after all these years that the new version you waited on will have a bunch of new stuff added later for the professionals. On top of that, they tell you "it's only $299!" which sounds good until you find out that you're gonna have to buy the encoder, the motion graphics editor, the image editor and the disc authoring utilities all separately.

FCPX, as I mentioned before, may well become a very good NLE, but as far as I can tell, it looks like the trend toward the consumer is all but complete across the board at Apple. It's good for Apple, and good for their shareholders, but it doesn't seem to be good for the professional video editor. I'm sure Apple WANTS your business, but you should ask yourself this...what exactly is Apple doing to keep me as a professional editor that Adobe (or Avid, if you prefer) is NOT doing?

Adobe has made a clear and vocal public statement regarding their commitment to the professional video community from here into the future. Avid is there too, although I don't see how they can keep their market share from declining. Where is Apple? There they are, selling you an iPad version of FCP that won't even let you edit track audio effects.

[Rick Burnett]

Where has Apple stated that these desired features are going to be added?

[David Saraceno]

CS3/4/5 and Encore CS3/4/5 have been buggy as anything for me on anything AVCHD derived

DVCProHD has fine for Premiere. But anything mts based natively even on a dual quad core MacPro causes hangs and crashes and spinning beach balls with any timeline beyond straight cuts.

I don't do much DVD authoring any more. However, I do stay away from Encore for both SD DVD and blu ray when I need to.

AE has always been a great tool, but over kill for much of what I do.

[Lez]

I still reckon Apple should just buy Adobe and be done with it...

Cheers

[cheezweezl]

I still reckon Apple should just buy Adobe and be done with it...

Cheers

please god don't ever let this come true. apple buys companies, improves the products at first, then ultimately destroys them. see shake, color, and now, FCP for examples.

while i am not too keen on premiere (yet), i would hate to see my old friends photoshop, illustrator, and after effects get raped and pillaged by the big "A"

[scapsinger]

Where has Apple stated that these desired features are going to be added?
Well I guess that's the power of the web...I've read probably 100 reviews, tweets, blogs and articles about FCPX and I know that in a few of them they quoted an Apple rep as assuring everyone that this was a first-gen app and that many more "pro" features would be added back very soon (whatever you take that to mean). I'll be sure to post a link back here if/when I stumble upon the exact quote.

For now, I'll just claim I'm protecting my sources. If this guy from Apple spoke without first making sure he was at an Apple-sponsored event, he probably has been fired anyway.

[scapsinger]

CS3/4/5 and Encore CS3/4/5 have been buggy as anything for me on anything AVCHD derived

DVCProHD has fine for Premiere. But anything mts based natively even on a dual quad core MacPro causes hangs and crashes and spinning beach balls with any timeline beyond straight cuts.

I don't do much DVD authoring any more. However, I do stay away from Encore for both SD DVD and blu ray when I need to.

AE has always been a great tool, but over kill for much of what I do.

I'd be happy to see if I could help you out with your bugs (send a PM). I've never had any trouble, and I've done almost exclusively AVCHD and DVCProHD footage. I recently cut a 1 hour program with 4 multicam sources, all of them AVCHD (from the HMC150) and a GoPro timelapse thrown in for good measure :)

Granted, I am on Windows 7 x64, so your issues may be related to OSX. I would assume that OSX and Win7 apps work similarly but I couldn't say for certain.

I do know probably the single biggest issue people have had with AVCHD footage can be traced to the destruction of the file folder structure from the SD card recording (which is a user mistake, has nothing to do with Panasonic or Adobe). That causes all kinds of issues, and is resolved by not renaming files or moving files around. I'm not saying this is your issue, but it is very common and could be avoided by having most of these fine folks just read the camcorder user manual.

Seriously though, be happy to try to help you out with any bugs you're having in Premiere Pro and Encore. Free of charge :)

[Rick Burnett]

Unless I hear it from an actual release from Apple, I just don't believe it. Now granted, they KNOW about how upset people are by just their removing of reviews on FCPX on the App Store alone, so maybe that will drive them. But, with all things, remember if you buy it now, you get exactly what it is now and given there is no official response to the outcry of criticism, one shouldn't be upset if they buy it as in and it doesn't change.

My own opinion after thinking about this for awhile is that Final Cut Pro was probably a horrible mess of code. Given how long it's been worked on and is probably hacked together. I'd imagine it was probably written even with a lot of Carbon API in it as well. I bet they took some of the libraries they had written for iMovie which is a much newer app and just started building it up from the bottom. I bet that FCPX probably ran over schedule and cost a lot more to develop than they wanted, and I imagine they just ran with it. I cannot for the life of me think of any other reason they left out such important features. But, that's just an opinion and based on nothing more than what most of you have read and seen, so don't take it as fact! :)

[Jim_Behl]

Ok, I went for it. I just had to know how bad this thing really is. I guess it's your point of view. There are things I hate, but there are some things I do like. Some simple things, I just can't find out how to do. It says you can do those things like fade in and out a supered graphic. Ok fine, except I couldn't figure out how. You can set up your scratch drives when you start a project, but you can't change it later. You can set all your keyboard shortcuts the way you want them. The good news is that it's much faster. Do I like it? The short answer is it's too soon to say. There is very little fine control, at least that I can find. This is sausage editing. TV stations will love it, except for the lack of robust tape support. This has happened with Apple before. Our way or....

Time will tell how this works out.

[mcgeedigital]

My own opinion after thinking about this for awhile is that Final Cut Pro was probably a horrible mess of code. Given how long it's been worked on and is probably hacked together. I'd imagine it was probably written even with a lot of Carbon API in it as well. I bet they took some of the libraries they had written for iMovie which is a much newer app and just started building it up from the bottom. I bet that FCPX probably ran over schedule and cost a lot more to develop than they wanted, and I imagine they just ran with it. I cannot for the life of me think of any other reason they left out such important features. But, that's just an opinion and based on nothing more than what most of you have read and seen, so don't take it as fact! :)

Having seen what I have seen and read, I 'll bet you aren't too far off the mark, Rick!

[TheReverend]

My own opinion after thinking about this for awhile is that Final Cut Pro was probably a horrible mess of code. Given how long it's been worked on and is probably hacked together. I'd imagine it was probably written even with a lot of Carbon API in it as well. I bet they took some of the libraries they had written for iMovie which is a much newer app and just started building it up from the bottom. I bet that FCPX probably ran over schedule and cost a lot more to develop than they wanted, and I imagine they just ran with it. I cannot for the life of me think of any other reason they left out such important features. But, that's just an opinion and based on nothing more than what most of you have read and seen, so don't take it as fact! :)


Having seen what I have seen and read, I 'll bet you aren't too far off the mark, Rick!

I'm sure that this is the case. I knew it was coming when I read up on QuicktimeX when that came out.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2009/08/mac-os-x-10-6.ars/6
This article did alot of explanation to me about where Apple was headed into the future. I knew that FCP's day to upgrade would come and like all transitions, it wouldnt be pretty. Personally I'm hoping the program grows to add more manual controls, better in/out, and greater media management.

[David Saraceno]

Thanks for the offer, and may take you up on it.

Did a review of CS5 Photoshop and Premiere for a couple of sites and was impressed.

But not with Encore.

[David Saraceno]

My own opinion after thinking about this for awhile is that Final Cut Pro was probably a horrible mess of code. Given how long it's been worked on and is probably hacked together. I'd imagine it was probably written even with a lot of Carbon API in it as well. I bet they took some of the libraries they had written for iMovie which is a much newer app and just started building it up from the bottom. I bet that FCPX probably ran over schedule and cost a lot more to develop than they wanted, and I imagine they just ran with it. I cannot for the life of me think of any other reason they left out such important features. But, that's just an opinion and based on nothing more than what most of you have read and seen, so don't take it as fact! :)

I concur with Rick's comments.

It would surprise me if FCP X would remain static

But I also feel strongly that it was rushed, and Apple has a PR nightmare with its pro users, or users with specific workflows.

[scapsinger]

I think the most interesting thing to track is how quickly people actually abandon ship. There are lots of threats, and plenty of anger 48 hours into this whole thing, but when the dust settles, who will actually have taken off for Adobe or Avid? Or Vegas?

Timing is everything naturally. If FCPX had come out two years ago, or even one year ago, your average FCP editor would have probably maintained enough patience to wait it out and see where it goes. With this being so long in coming, however, the desperation has had a chance to build, and the thought floats in the back of the brain as to WHEN the next upgrade will be and WHAT it will include that was missing this time around.

The most obvious thing to me is how much of Apple's former goodwill among the editors out there seems to have virtually vanished. I think so many were willing to give the benefit of the doubt, waiting for the next version of FCP, and even once the big reveal happened a few months ago and everyone got worried about "iMovie Pro." It seems all that goodwill was finally extinguished.

Again, if FCPX had come out a few years ago, many people might have just waited it out. Now, how many people will jump ship between today and when they release FCPXI? And will they come back for it? And what will the offerings from the competition look like in another year or so time?

[TheReverend]

I think the most interesting thing to track is how quickly people actually abandon ship. There are lots of threats, and plenty of anger 48 hours into this whole thing, but when the dust settles, who will actually have taken off for Adobe or Avid? Or Vegas?

Timing is everything naturally. If FCPX had come out two years ago, or even one year ago, your average FCP editor would have probably maintained enough patience to wait it out and see where it goes. With this being so long in coming, however, the desperation has had a chance to build, and the thought floats in the back of the brain as to WHEN the next upgrade will be and WHAT it will include that was missing this time around.

The most obvious thing to me is how much of Apple's former goodwill among the editors out there seems to have virtually vanished. I think so many were willing to give the benefit of the doubt, waiting for the next version of FCP, and even once the big reveal happened a few months ago and everyone got worried about "iMovie Pro." It seems all that goodwill was finally extinguished.

Again, if FCPX had come out a few years ago, many people might have just waited it out. Now, how many people will jump ship between today and when they release FCPXI? And will they come back for it? And what will the offerings from the competition look like in another year or so time?

This is a good observation. Final Cut Pro brought many of us into NLE and I know that it did for me. I remember trying to do stuff in Premiere on Windows back in the day. Yuck, that was ugly stuff. Many of us are using FCP7 right now without any terribly urgent issues. It is still stunning to me why everyone seems to be jumping ship so fast.

I can only assume it's because people have lost faith in Apple to fix the FCPX issues. That and that there are other affordable options that are as good and/or better in some circumstances.

[Elton]

I remain open-minded to FCPX...but I really felt I saw the writing on the wall over a year ago with the release of the iPad. And certainly when I saw that the new iMovie had changed so much...and that Randy Ubillos (met him 10 years ago at NAB, brilliant guy) was the architect...I felt a great disturbance in the force.

And NOW it feels like millions of voices cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. ;-) http://pics.livejournal.com/elizabeth_hoot/pic/000640qp/s640x480

Been a heavy FCP user since '99. I jumped to Win CS5.5 after NAB and am quite happy with it up to now.

Even with all the gnashing of teeth out there, I'm sure FCPX is going to be big for the new YouTube generation--and that's probably 90% of the future NLE users out there.

I'll let the dust settle and see where Apple goes with it.

Just walk into an Apple store and see how many Mac Pros are displayed these days.

[simonpwood]

FYI - you can create multiple versions of a single edit within the same project, all without affecting your original edit, and without cluttering up your hard drive unnecessarily with multiple projects.

Not sure if you realized that, or if you just prefer to have completely different project files for each edit. Me personally, I just create a new sequence. You could even just create separate bins in your project for each edit and accomplish the same thing, if you were concerned about accidentally overwriting an edit for some reason.

Hi Thanks for that reply. My machine was buggy and if projects got too large it would take upwards of 5 minutes to open a file, so I just started creating new projects instead of using the sequences (in Premiere).

Is there a 'sequence' option in FCPX to have multiple edits in the same project?

[VMT]

Wow it's amazing how the release of FCP X has some of you undergoing deep soul searching.


FCPX is going to be big for the new YouTube generation

You got that right. Can't blame Apple for not being forward looking. In that sense FCP X will be a game changer. Change is good. iFCP?

[Postmaster]

And NOW it feels like millions of voices cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. ;-) .

LOL - quote of the week - this should be chiseled in stone... no wait,

..t.his should be chiseled in CARBONE and hung over the main entrance of the Apple headquarter.
As an - ever lasting - reminder how to totally piss of a complete customer community in just one day and drive them in the arms of the competition.

Frank

[Lez]

I'm going for the cross grade while it's on....

http://www.videoguys.com/Bundle/Adobe+CS55+Production+Premium+Upgrade+(Mac)+for+Fi nal+Cut+Owners+with+Blu-ray+Bundle/713.aspx

At $350 for FCP X ... I'll stick with FCP7 and have a play with Premiere... I mainly use After Effects anyhow...

Bit of a shame... I was hoping to buy a new machine for Lion etc...

I'm thinking allot of FCP users were about upgrading their machines with this release...

Cheers

[Jarek Zabczynski]

Well I'm hitting them where it count and requesting a refund. I think anyone that feels the same way should at least make an attempt.

[daihard]

I wish I could take some of the ticks Premiere has and put them with FCP 7! I'm not happy with iMoveX ... errr.... I mean FCPX. What the heck!?!?
I wil remain open minded, but its stupid apple didn't implement some kind of legacy settings so I could use the new functionality, but still have the familiarity of FCP7 controls and layout.
One of the main reasons I dont use Premiere, is because I'm so familiar and comfortable with FCP.
I'm okay that FCPX is missing some of the "Pro" features, as I know it will probably be updated to match what FCP7 has... and more.

You guys can have both FCP7 and FCPX. I've deleted iMovie in place of FCPX and will check up with it at a later time, but im not impressed.
Maybe I should start getting familiar with Premiere's controls... :(

[Brian@202020]

FCP4.5 was... what, 2004? 2005? The Premiere of today is nothing whatsoever like it was in 2004. It has changed in ways that the word "major" can't even begin to encompass.

Well I guess that is good to hear. I haven't even opened or seen Premiere since. I was so frustrated with it back then that I went cold turkey. Everyone I know cuts with FCP, Avid, or Vegas. I do have CS5.5, maybe I'll have to check it out later.

[jmarkham]

Well I'm hitting them where it count and requesting a refund. I think anyone that feels the same way should at least make an attempt.

I did .. and I got this response from Apple ...


Dear Jeffrey,

Greetings from iTunes Store Customer Support. My name is Mervin.

I understand that you would like to have refund for your 3 mac application purchases as it do not work with your device. I know you are eager to be taken care of this. I will give you much of the information to resolve this.

Jeffrey, I request you to first please contact the developer of these applications and they will provide you the requirements that you need to use this application. They will give you all information required. I know you were eager to use this application. I have provided the links of each of them:

http://www.apple.com/support/finalcutpro/

http://www.apple.com/support/compressor

http://www.apple.com/support/motion

The support team will give you all the information.

Please let me know once you have contacted and if you need a refund. I will look forward to your reply to know about this.

Thank you for being a valued iTunes Store customer. Have a great day!

[Batutta]

Even with all the gnashing of teeth out there, I'm sure FCPX is going to be big for the new YouTube generation--and that's probably 90% of the future NLE users out there.


Even this I question. The program might be too complex for the amateur, and yet not complex enough for the pro. Is there a sizable market in between, big enough for Apple? Not so sure. They may end up pleasing no one with this software.

[blackcat]

Even this I question. The program might be too complex for the amateur, and yet not complex enough for the pro. Is there a sizable market in between, big enough for Apple? Not so sure. They may end up pleasing no one with this software.

I think there will be a market for new media distribution on future news and entertainment websites. Having an accessible, cheap, and closed system would make sense. As it stands, Final Cut X doesn't make much sense for people interested in "film," as in short films, feature films, and documentary.

[Batutta]

I think there will be a market for new media distribution on future news and entertainment websites. Having an accessible, cheap, and closed system would make sense. As it stands, Final Cut X doesn't make much sense for people interested in "film," as in short films, feature films, and documentary.

But that's still a niche. What I'm saying is that it's too complex for joe blow with some video footage and a few free hours to mess around with, which is where the big consumer market would be. Anything else is a niche, so why abandoned an entrenched loyal niche for another niche that may not be there?

[carlweston]

iMovie pro.

[IraNathanCole]

I've still been unable to get FCPX to read footage off of my AF100.

I've tried connecting the camera directly, and reading straight from the SD card with all of the folder structure in place.

When I go and manually try to choose .MTS files, I get the following message in the image below: 35965
Does anyone have some insight that I'm missing?

[DecadenceFilms]

Time to say goodbye to Apple as far as I'm concerned.

Not worth the hassle.

[ullanta]

I've still been unable to get FCPX to read footage off of my AF100.

I've tried connecting the camera directly, and reading straight from the SD card with all of the folder structure in place.

When I go and manually try to choose .MTS files, I get the following message in the image below: 35965
Does anyone have some insight that I'm missing?

IOf it's anything like FCP 6 or 7 (ha!), then you want to import the PRIVATE folder, not the individual MTS files.

[robotsound]

Well I'm hitting them where it count and requesting a refund. I think anyone that feels the same way should at least make an attempt.

My friend did the same thing, and did get a refund successfully.

[robotsound]

An insider from the Shake project weighs in on the FCP X disaster: http://digitalcomposting.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/x-vs-pro/

[filmguy123]

An insider from the Shake project weighs in on the FCP X disaster: http://digitalcomposting.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/x-vs-pro/

Great article, thanks for sharing. Very insightful and articulates well what a lot of people have been guessing. Writing seems to be on the wall that this is true; this quote sums it up nicely:


So if you’re really a professional you shouldn’t want to be reliant on software from a company like Apple. Because your heart will be broken. Because they’re not reliant on you. Use Apple’s tools to take you as far as they can – they’re an incredible bargain in terms of price-performance. But once you’re ready to move up to the next level, find yourself a software provider whose life-blood flows only as long as they keep their professional customers happy. It only makes sense.

[IraNathanCole]

I've still been unable to get FCPX to read footage off of my AF100.

I've tried connecting the camera directly, and reading straight from the SD card with all of the folder structure in place.

When I go and manually try to choose .MTS files, I get the following message in the image below: 35965
Does anyone have some insight that I'm missing?

I figured it out after reading a very insightful article today at : http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/23/professional-video-editors-weigh-in-on-final-cut-pro-x/

Choose "Import from Camera" and then "Open Archive" The folder structure must be in place, as if you are reading straight from the camera.