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View Full Version : Anyone in PAL land buying an FS100 from USA?



PabloOzzy
06-19-2011, 02:38 PM
Im looking to buy an FS100 but as yet, it doesnt seem to be available in Australia. In addition the price I've gotten from most vendors for when it WILL be available is around $6400 (without lens).

So has anyone else thought of purchasing one from the US? Given its available from B&H for $4700AU and can be ordered NOW, Im seriously tempted to have one shipped. Or have someone bring one over.

I know I would be giving up native 25p and I may have to buy a third party power pack / charger...but in addition to the savings in $$, one thing I love is the 60p - converted to 24p (or 23.976). I shoot a LOT of the time in NTSC mode on my canons to get that extra bit of smooth slowmo and havent had any issue.

Also in my experience the few times I've had to convert 23.976 to 25p, simply speeding it up by 4% works brilliantly and cant be noticed in any meaningful way.

Is there anything else I am missing that would make purchasing in this way a bad idea?

nsoltz
06-19-2011, 02:55 PM
Sony will not permit B&H to ship outside US.

PabloOzzy
06-19-2011, 03:14 PM
Yes I had heard that, which only increases my hate for Sony's shinanigans and long for the day when Scarlet will let us all break free from the shackles of oppression etc etc

BUT for now if this is true I have one or two jet-setting friends that would be more than happy to bring one over for me. That way they can take it as carry on and while I loose the shiny packaging, I also save an extra $250ish in customs charges.

AndrewGentle
06-19-2011, 06:51 PM
I would expect the FS100 to be PAL/NTSC switchable, I'm fairly sure the EX1 was that way, why would they change it? See if you can get a hold of a PDF manual which details the menu structure and see if the NTSC version can be switched to PAL.
Also, I would doubt you'd have to buy a third party charger, they use those figure eight connectors almost universally and I've never seen a camera charger which wouldn't accept 110 - 240 V, 50/60 Hz.

EDIT Actually, everything I've found so far indicates that they have not made this one NTSC/PAL switchable. That's pretty annoying, I wonder why they would make the EX1 switchable and the newer models not? Personally, I wouldn't buy anything that doesn't shoot 25p.

PabloOzzy
06-19-2011, 08:13 PM
Its HUGELY annoying :-)

But thats Sony for you, cant be easy being them...so many products at so many levels. Make the FS100 too good and no one will buy an F3...and so on.

I just like the fact that shooting with an NTSC camera you get in essence two levels of native slow motion - 30>24 or 60>24. With PAL all you get is 50>25. Like I said I haven't had any issue for the times I've needed to speed up 23.976>25fps so to me buying this way offers more creative options, saves me over $1k and of course would allow me to get one now rather than wait for AU availability.

speedracerlo
06-20-2011, 12:28 AM
I think the 10 extra fps from 60>24 is definitely worth it
I feel sorry for the PAL buddies, they also have issues with juddering pans which NTSC doesn't seem to have a problem with

addax
06-20-2011, 04:11 PM
A friend who lives in the US ordered for me and he'll send it soon (I hope). That's 2000 euros cheaper than european model. I will tell if I have any issue...

StMad
06-20-2011, 04:31 PM
I think the 10 extra fps from 60>24 is definitely worth it
I feel sorry for the PAL buddies, they also have issues with juddering pans which NTSC doesn't seem to have a problem with

Hate to threadjack, but PAL doesn't have any problem with juddering pans (none that NTSC doesn't also have, which usually results from too quick pans or inappropriate shutter)

mandrean
06-20-2011, 08:34 PM
I got my today from B&H. Planning on using it home in Sweden.

jonatha
06-20-2011, 08:59 PM
I got my today from B&H. Planning on using it home in Sweden.
Hi how is it,NTSC work on PAL land,any flickering in 60mhz?thanks

mandrean
06-20-2011, 09:31 PM
Hi how is it,NTSC work on PAL land,any flickering in 60mhz?thanksI guess, watch out if you're shooting interlaced footage for TV. I'm sure there's someone else here on the board who's more into this stuff than I am.

I'm only shooting 24p and 60p slowmo for web though.

jonatha
06-20-2011, 09:34 PM
Thank you Mandrean
JO

SergeSmArt
07-14-2011, 08:56 AM
Philip Bloom (http://www.dvxuser.com/philipbloom) says : it's going to be fixed in firmware ... and I'm sure it will .. :)

Postmaster
07-14-2011, 10:24 AM
I

So has anyone else thought of purchasing one from the US?

I wish I would have.
Even though I live in PAL (Germany) land, I would be better of with 24p and 60p.

Now Iīm stuck with 50i since 25p is not usable, due to jitter issues.

A friend f lyes to NY once a month, would have been easy to bring one for me.

Yeah, live and learn.

Frank

squig
07-19-2011, 12:30 AM
Hey Frank given that it's a lot cheaper in the US you could flog yours on ebay at a loss and still probably come out even on a 24p replacement.

Noel Evans
07-19-2011, 12:35 AM
[QUOTE=Postmaster;2388743Now Iīm stuck with 50i since 25p is not usable, due to jitter issues.
[/QUOTE]

So Frank. The cam is not NTSC / PAL switchable? And theres additional judder issues in 25p mode that are not apparent in 24p - as in theres something wrong with the 25p implementation as oppossed to normal motion (24/25) judder?

I was considering the FS100 an option for a greenscreen job(actually we'll be using reflecmedia), but it has to be 25P and if Im buying a camera it has to be ntsc / pal switchable.

Postmaster
07-19-2011, 12:41 AM
I did some tests. Have a look Noel: http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/2011/06/14/sony-nex-fs100-frame-rate-and-shutter-speed-tests/


Hey Frank given that it's a lot cheaper in the US you could flog yours on ebay at a loss and still probably come out even on a 24p replacement.

The price is not so different after tax and customs. (http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/2011/06/14/sony-nex-fs100-frame-rate-and-shutter-speed-tests/)

legrevedotcom
07-19-2011, 01:55 AM
Depends on which country you are in... The only local dealer I've found so far that deals the FS100 here in Copenhagen charges 6000 euro before tax :O

In the end I ordered vat free, according to EU law, from the UK instead and paid a lot less... even included 2 16gb cards and a Senn G3 112. Had I ordered from the US I would have saved almost 3000 euro (after adding tax, customs and delivery) opposed to the Danish price... yep, Danish FS100 price after tax is around 8000 euro! What is up with that.

Oh well... I'm hopetimistically counting on Sony to wake up and do a firmware fix that enables all framerates on all versions.

dergarry
07-19-2011, 07:49 AM
Same here,

i am flying to NY next month. Buying it and flying back to Germany. Gotta Pay tax though, but still cheaper than in Germany (much cheaper). And: I will see NY for the first time :)

Good reason for a nice trip i guess :)

Noel Evans
07-19-2011, 09:00 PM
I did some tests. Have a look Noel: [URL="http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/2011/06/14/sony-nex-fs100-frame-rate-and-shutter-speed-tests/"]http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/2011/06/14/sony-nex-fs100-frame-rate-and-shutter-speed-tests/




Wow. So thus Im assuming no 50/60Hz switchable then? Cams basically made itself redundant for me if thats the case.

Frank also the red object - macroblocks caused by compression or there on original?

legrevedotcom
07-19-2011, 10:14 PM
After reading about it here (jitter), I took the discussion to a Danish filmguy and be said a lot of the time people got jitters because they shooting what he called "home videos" instead of fliming.
His opinion is that the FS100 is.made for planned shots rather than run and gun. So the object of proper camera movement applies, ie.: camera films the subject against a out of focus background... movement is into the frame and maintained in the frame at the same spot all the time.... panning is either slow or fast, nothing in between.

He also found that stepping down to -3 on detail will take care of some of the problem.

Postmaster
07-20-2011, 01:28 AM
Wow. So thus Im assuming no 50/60Hz switchable then? Cams basically made itself redundant for me if thats the case.

Frank also the red object - macroblocks caused by compression or there on original?

The macroblocks on the red tray are made by Vimeo - the original material is pristine.

tomer
07-28-2011, 08:09 PM
So what is the verdict - to shoot 23.97 with shatter at 50 in a pal land to get no jitter effect ?
Does the ntsc version have the 50 and 100 shutter speed at 23.97 and 30 settings ?

Postmaster
07-29-2011, 01:23 AM
Yeah, actually in even in PAL land you are better with the US version.

1. 24 to 25 is done easy - we do it with films all the time, just a little speed change.
2. You have real 24 motion at 48 (180 deg) shutter
3. 60 vs 50 in slomo makes a difference.

Frank

alaskacameradude
07-29-2011, 03:41 AM
Supposedly there is going to be a free firmware update that will make this a 'world' camera.

Francesco Dal Bosco
07-29-2011, 06:24 AM
Probably I'm wrong but your pans at 25p (especially the 1/50 one) seems very good to me.

tomer
07-29-2011, 07:12 AM
Yeah, actually in even in PAL land you are better with the US version.

1. 24 to 25 is done easy - we do it with films all the time, just a little speed change.
2. You have real 24 motion at 48 (180 deg) shutter
3. 60 vs 50 in slomo makes a difference.

Frank
my dear , i worked on about 40 features in my life which where shoot 24 , i am asking if the camera has 50 and 100 shutter to work with when it set to 23.97 and 29.97 to eliminate the flicker from the 50 hz light ?
best

Postmaster
07-29-2011, 08:06 AM
Mi fixtures donīt flicker and so donīt good old household bulbs.
That problem occurs only with some fluorescent lights, which Iīm usually able to prevent.

Yeah 48 or 50 shutter does not make a big difference. A shutter of 100 is a pain in the rear, as long a you donīt want the Private Ryan D-Day look.

Frank

Edit: just received the update - went smooth.
Now I have to wait, till the FS100 comes back from rental.

bimdas
07-30-2011, 05:19 AM
video guys here now sell it for under 6k. Was going to go the bh route via priceusa who act as middle deliverymen but with gst and customs fees I'd only be around 400 up.

maarek
07-31-2011, 05:35 PM
A shutter of 100 is a pain in the rear, as long a you donīt want the Private Ryan D-Day look.

Hmm? It's not that bad. Ryan was probably around 1/320 for all the fast paced action shots. 1/100 is actually my preferred look for anything that is not a talking shot because it is sharp but still has enough motion blur. And even for talking shots it kinda works. I used to shoot at 1/100 for years. :grin:

I'd still go for the 25p model if you are in EU. The 50hz thing is a big deal and you can always slow it down 4% to get to 24 if you need it. Only thing really missing is the 60p slowmo.

3dit0r
08-19-2011, 03:44 AM
I'm in the UK and also considering the US model as I'm shooting a film which may have a theatrical release possibility, and will at least be going to festivals. I'm more inclined to shoot 23.97 as I'd rather speed the pace of the film up to 25p than bog it down going 4% slower if I shoot 25p then try to convert to 24?

However, I'm concerned about possible light flicker, although I don't think we'll be using flourescent sources. Can someone with the US variant please confirm whether you are able to shoot at 1/50 when in 24p framerate?

Any other problems or BTDT with shooting 23.97p in Europe/UK either shooting or in post?

Cheers.

Postmaster
08-19-2011, 08:02 AM
According to Philip Bloom, there will be a firmeware update bevore x-mas, that makes the FS100 a world camera.

starcentral
08-19-2011, 09:05 AM
I don't know why, but I'm led to believe the firmware update will only be for EU camera and not USA. If that's the case, even living in North America I would sooner buy the PAL version of the camera that is NTSC switchable than the NTSC one instead... just for the option!

3dit0r
08-19-2011, 10:12 AM
Thanks for the replies -

Postmaster - yes I've read that too, however sadly our shoot is before winter, so I'll need a solution before that.

Starcentral - yeah, if I could wait I would agree. I find it as bizarre as many of these decisions seem to be to introduce a major enabling firmware update so long after release. Why not just enable all frame-rates on all models from the start since it is clearly possible to do so, and save all this hassle?

In any case, can someone who actually owns a US model please confirm whether you can use a 1/50 shutter speed when shooting at 24p?

I'm assuming '24p' actually means 23.97 on this cam and not true 24p?

Cheers.

Eggmeng
09-04-2011, 10:46 AM
I bought my FS-100 in the States three weeks ago and brought it here to Thailand where I live and work. The only chance I have had to test it under flourescent lights was in my office today, under the ceiling fixtures.

There was no discernable flicker at 1/50 or at 1/100. But as soon as I went to 1/120 the image started rolling.

Hope this helps.

analog_addict
09-04-2011, 01:09 PM
Does anyone know a reputable US dealer that will ship an FS100 to the UK? Even after VAT and customs it works out cheaper to buy an FS100 from the states.

3dit0r
09-04-2011, 06:34 PM
I bought my FS-100 in the States three weeks ago and brought it here to Thailand where I live and work. The only chance I have had to test it under flourescent lights was in my office today, under the ceiling fixtures.There was no discernable flicker at 1/50 or at 1/100. But as soon as I went to 1/120 the image started rolling. Hope this helps. Hi thanks for the reply! I take it Thailand has a 50Hz mains supply?

3dit0r
09-04-2011, 06:35 PM
Does anyone know a reputable US dealer that will ship an FS100 to the UK? Even after VAT and customs it works out cheaper to buy an FS100 from the states. A cheap flight to the East Coast just out of season is probably a good deal cheaper still and you won't have to find a dealer who'll ship to the UK!

GazChurchend
10-17-2011, 04:43 PM
I brought one in the UK from www.slrhut.com it's a NTSC model and was delivered free and did not pay VAT.
They have a London office to handle queries. It was massively cheaper than UK at Ģ3365
I think they have put them up slightly but still a bargain....