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MattDavis
06-14-2011, 04:20 PM
Some of us have to have long record times (I do a nice line in conference records). The single slot in the FS100 (which may be usefully employed as a wide shot) is a bit of a limitation. So...

FMU128 - great capacity, dual record, camera-powered, neat fitment, but still the same codec, questions on reliability as yet unanswered (NX5 experiences), USB2 Transfer speeds.

Ninja - great capacity (extensible too), dual record, edit ready 4:2:2 codec (I'm Mac based), FW800 transfer speeds, powered by same batts as camera, includes confidence monitor (not 'EVF' and can't get 'expanded focus'), but not a 'neat' solution, requires HDMI (locking cables?), cheese plate for mounting. Hopefully oddities are no more.

What are your thoughts?

ectobuilder
06-14-2011, 05:16 PM
Some of us have to have long record times (I do a nice line in conference records). The single slot in the FS100 (which may be usefully employed as a wide shot) is a bit of a limitation. So...

FMU128 - great capacity, dual record, camera-powered, neat fitment, but still the same codec, questions on reliability as yet unanswered (NX5 experiences), USB2 Transfer speeds.

Ninja - great capacity (extensible too), dual record, edit ready 4:2:2 codec (I'm Mac based), FW800 transfer speeds, powered by same batts as camera, includes confidence monitor (not 'EVF' and can't get 'expanded focus'), but not a 'neat' solution, requires HDMI (locking cables?), cheese plate for mounting. Hopefully oddities are no more.

What are your thoughts?

Ninja currently is awaiting full speed playback, therefore if you are reviewing footage on the fly the Ninja may not be a good choice. Also it does not do pulldowns right now to decode 24p signal over HDMI, that has to be done in post.

Lots of holes right now, but if you can use and need a 750GB 7200RPM drive then go with the Ninja. Also keep in mind that if you record in ProRess 422 HQ, 750GB will be equivalent to something smaller as the bit rate increases to 220Mbps as opposed to 28Mbps (max) on the FMU/SD Card of the FS100.

I believe at 220Mbps you are getting an equivalent of 75GB at 22Mbps (10x scaler).

Quad][Light/JeremyHowell
06-14-2011, 05:59 PM
Ninja currently is awaiting full speed playback, therefore if you are reviewing footage on the fly the Ninja may not be a good choice. Also it does not do pulldowns right now to decode 24p signal over HDMI, that has to be done in post.

Lots of holes right now, but if you can use and need a 750GB 7200RPM drive then go with the Ninja. Also keep in mind that if you record in ProRess 422 HQ, 750GB will be equivalent to something smaller as the bit rate increases to 220Mbps as opposed to 28Mbps (max) on the FMU/SD Card of the FS100.

I believe at 220Mbps you are getting an equivalent of 75GB at 22Mbps (10x scaler).

Right i was interested in the Ninija until i found those holes from Abel Cine and a brief chat with the Atomos Ninja team. My next idea was looking at the Matrox Mini theres one that does straight 422 prores to your laptop hdd using express slot, should give live view playback too im hearing. But im not sure if it plays well with the Sony Fs100? And i cant get any confims yet...

David Shapton
06-14-2011, 10:35 PM
[Light/JeremyHowell;2363115']Right i was interested in the Ninija until i found those holes from Abel Cine and a brief chat with the Atomos Ninja team. My next idea was looking at the Matrox Mini theres one that does straight 422 prores to your laptop hdd using express slot, should give live view playback too im hearing. But im not sure if it plays well with the Sony Fs100? And i cant get any confims yet...

i'm just wondering why you'd what to record at 24p for conferences? If you record at 30p (which will give you better quality anyway) you won't need to post-process as the camera will output 30p as a 60i signal, which looks identical to the original. You only need to film at 24p if you need a film-like effect.

The playback in the Ninja is to be fixed very soon with a firmware update. The live view quality is fine.

Don't forget that you can get nearly 8 hours of ProRes HQ on a 750GB drive. You can't easily swap hard drives on a laptop. The Ninja has been tried and tested with an FS100.

BTW - you can use a 7200 drive in a Nija but there's no need. 5400 drives are fine and use less power.

Dave Shapton
Atomos

Quad][Light/JeremyHowell
06-14-2011, 11:03 PM
i'm just wondering why you'd what to record at 24p for conferences? If you record at 30p (which will give you better quality anyway) you won't need to post-process as the camera will output 30p as a 60i signal, which looks identical to the original. You only need to film at 24p if you need a film-like effect.

The playback in the Ninja is to be fixed very soon with a firmware update. The live view quality is fine.

Don't forget that you can get nearly 8 hours of ProRes HQ on a 750GB drive. You can't easily swap hard drives on a laptop. The Ninja has been tried and tested with an FS100.

BTW - you can use a 7200 drive in a Nija but there's no need. 5400 drives are fine and use less power.

Dave Shapton
Atomos

Thanks so much for your response because same day i ordered my FS100 i wanted to purchase the ninja but was told the Ninja isnt really compatible and it would be a long and hard process to get 24p. I have been looking for feedback on the ninja and the FS100 but havnt found any. What is the current process of getting the 24p from footage?
Thanks!

ectobuilder
06-14-2011, 11:04 PM
i'm just wondering why you'd what to record at 24p for conferences? If you record at 30p (which will give you better quality anyway) you won't need to post-process as the camera will output 30p as a 60i signal, which looks identical to the original. You only need to film at 24p if you need a film-like effect.

The playback in the Ninja is to be fixed very soon with a firmware update. The live view quality is fine.

Don't forget that you can get nearly 8 hours of ProRes HQ on a 750GB drive. You can't easily swap hard drives on a laptop. The Ninja has been tried and tested with an FS100.

BTW - you can use a 7200 drive in a Nija but there's no need. 5400 drives are fine and use less power.

Dave Shapton
Atomos

If 24p isn't needed and if you don't need full speed playback then by all means go with the Atomos Ninja. At least one of the two problems will be solved in the near future as they are working on the firmware to give it full speed playback. However I believe 24p pulldown is going to be an offline solution. I like the dual batteries on the Atomos which uses standard Sony L-batteries and allows for continuous operation.

So again if 24p isn't needed then the Atomos should do you well. May want to check out the HyperDeck Shuttle if you don't need a field monitor built-in and if you don't mind buying additional external power and having to rig it to your FS100 (it only comes with a 1 hour battery and has ZERO mounting holes).

Rick Burnett
06-14-2011, 11:16 PM
That is a tough question. Eventually I think I am going to use both. After reviewing the footage out of the FS100, I really like it. So far, I have not come across anything that I thought I needed the Atmos Ninja for. However, when I am doing green screen work, and I've done none of that with the FS100 yet, that is where the Atmos Ninja is going to shine for me. That will probably be the point in which I buy one. Now with the FMU128, I want the simultaneous record. That's just an awesome feature that I would welcome with open arms. :)

David Shapton
06-15-2011, 12:49 AM
If 24p isn't needed and if you don't need full speed playback then by all means go with the Atomos Ninja. At least one of the two problems will be solved in the near future as they are working on the firmware to give it full speed playback. However I believe 24p pulldown is going to be an offline solution. I like the dual batteries on the Atomos which uses standard Sony L-batteries and allows for continuous operation.

So again if 24p isn't needed then the Atomos should do you well. May want to check out the HyperDeck Shuttle if you don't need a field monitor built-in and if you don't mind buying additional external power and having to rig it to your FS100 (it only comes with a 1 hour battery and has ZERO mounting holes).

Don't forget that uncompressed long-form recording to SSDs will be crippling in terms of cost.

We are bringing out our own reverse-telecine software that will bring back 24p quickly and simply, and meanwhile, Compressor and packages do it fine, and don't take too long. It would be a lengthy process for long-form but, again, if you use 30p for that, it works straight out of the Ninja.

Dave Shapton

Atomos

Rick Burnett
06-15-2011, 12:59 AM
Dave, are you planning to include it in the Ninja one day? (reverse telecine)

David Shapton
06-15-2011, 01:11 AM
Dave, are you planning to include it in the Ninja one day? (reverse telecine)

Sorry, no, not in the Ninja.

Dave Shapton
Atomos.

MattDavis
06-15-2011, 10:56 AM
Now with the FMU128, I want the simultaneous record. That's just an awesome feature that I would welcome with open arms.

As would I, especially in these early days of building trust with SDHC and recording - like we did with SxS and then 'MxM' adaptors.

However, a colleague had a Z7 with the CF recorder - who would only use the CF recorder whilst running tape because of the problems with reliability of the solid state option (and a FoaF who had a similar setup with similar issues). Furthermore, I lurked around a few NX5 watering holes and heard similar murmours of discontent about dual record. It's all hearsay, it's all rumours, but I'm spooked enough to look further afield.

The addition of an external monitor (for when the camera's on a tall tripod), ProRes LT (with 4:2:2 for chromakey, and the promise of 'Direct To Edit' albeit with large file sizes from the get-go) and the same batts as the camera do tend to make the Ninja sound like a bit of a shoo-in at this stage. Oh yes, and the FW800. And the cartridges. And...

Rick Burnett
06-15-2011, 11:12 AM
Well for me it is the weight issue. Looking over at the reviews of the FMU128 at B+H were really positive. The only complaint I see is the cost. Adding the Ninja, with a drive, with power, is going to push my system to be too heavy. This was the main reason I went to the FS100 was I wanted a lighter camera than my AF100. For locked down shots on my tripod, I see no issue. But with my stabilizer or shoulder rig, it would be pushing things. Especially the stabilizer which any heavier would be not useful for me. Hopefully we'll get some people testing the FMU so we can get some reports on how well it works.

The best thing of course is that we have all these options for different situations! :)

dop16mm
06-15-2011, 11:28 AM
If only the sony cartridge allowed for 422 recording, it would be almost worth the money.

theoroll
08-22-2011, 03:31 PM
Not sure if this thread is dead, but I'm expecting the Matrox Mini this week. I can provide feedback.

Ericjurg
08-23-2011, 01:59 PM
I've had the FMU-128 with the NX5 for almost a year now. It's a great piece of gear, never given me any issues (except when it first came out, and Sony issued a firmware update that took care of that problem.) It really isn't that much more expensive than the equivalent amount of SD memory (128 GB). Seems rock solid. I've dropped it a few times (nothing nasty), but it shrugged it off without issue. It's nice how it functons as a USB powered desktop drive - really easy to back things up in the field. It's perfectly integrated with the camera, and the form factor is great - adds negligable size and weight to the camera. Highly recommended.

Douglas Villalba
08-23-2011, 02:34 PM
I've had the FMU-128 with the NX5 for almost a year now. It's a great piece of gear, never given me any issues (except when it first came out, and Sony issued a firmware update that took care of that problem.) It really isn't that much more expensive than the equivalent amount of SD memory (128 GB). Seems rock solid. I've dropped it a few times (nothing nasty), but it shrugged it off without issue. It's nice how it functons as a USB powered desktop drive - really easy to back things up in the field. It's perfectly integrated with the camera, and the form factor is great - adds negligable size and weight to the camera. Highly recommended.
What? SDXC 128GBs costs $200

NeedCreative
08-25-2011, 09:59 AM
Yeah I don't know where Eric gets his SD cards but SD is far far less expensive than the far-overpriced Sony FMU. I went with a Ninja for backup for a few hundred more and gained ProRes recording, a confidence monitor/playback device, the use of cheap swappable storage, etc.