Barry_Green
04-21-2005, 08:18 PM
Man, Thursday is *the* day to go to NAB. On Monday the line was six to eight deep to see the HD100, but today you could walk right up to it. And ask questions, and get answers, instead of fighting crowds.
First things first -- the live analog out display was HOT! It looked great. They had a ring of HD CRT monitors above the cameras, and they had various camera configurations -- one was stock, one was with the wide-angle lens, one was set up for 24p shooting, etc. It looked really good on the monitors. It was totally high-def, I could see these cameras being used in a studio setting or in a low-cost HD field truck. You could get 60p or 24p live, so it's totally flexible.
Second: lenses. The included lens is, indeed, a truly manual lens. I think people who are wanting to get a camera to impress the neighbors will be a little disappointed, 'cause it's TINY -- it was very reminiscent of the Angenieux on my old Beaulieu 7008 Super8 cam. But it felt good, it was smooth, it was fast (iris opens to 1.4) and it had a nice range (16x, 5.5 to 88mm). That's the same range as the Canon XL1 16x, so you could get some very shallow DOF looks with it.
The optional wide-angle lens was, comparatively, the bomb. It was a class act, no wonder it's 10x the price. Much bigger, more pro, very nice. Very usable focal range too, from 3.5mm up to 46mm. That was a nice lens. That's the one you want.
Third: usability. Nice little camera. It's tiny, but that doesn't stop it from being usable. Lots of switches and dials where you expect them to be, that work the way you expect them to. Can't comment on the menus because these cameras had the menus locked-out, but as for base functionality, it was great!
Fourth: VF/LCD. The viewfinder and LCD are 4:3. That seemed odd, because they didn't seem to be taking advantage of the letterbox bars the same way as on the HVX -- info still covers up the image. But it looked good, didn't really get to delve into how high-res they are, but the peaking is superb, you can dial it in from mild to wild. Focus Assist was scary, it put red bars on the top and bottom and put the peaking info in red. Between those two, I think you'd stand a pretty good shot of getting the shots in focus in the field, something that just wasn't possible with the prior HD1 and HD10.
Fifth: hard disk recording. I'd heard a lot about hard disk recording on the JVC, I was expecting more than it is. What it is, is a rebadged Firestore FS-4. I thought it'd be an integrated solution, like they offered on the DV5000, but it's not. They said it had more control/integration than a regular FireStore, but if you were hoping for user-interchangeable hard drives, this isn't it. It's a $1500 option, and it sits on top of the camera shoe, tethered by a firewire cable. Not what I was expecting.
Sixth: HD-SDI. Nope. No digital output over HD-SDI. What they instead had was an $800 AJA box (I think it was AJA) that converts analog component into HD-SDI. So you won't get a digital output from the camera, you instead get analog output which gets converted by this third-party accessory and turns it into HD-SDI. Nothing wrong with that, that's how the Panasonic and Sony have to do it as well, but I had thought I'd heard reports that the JVC has actual HD-SDI, and it doesn't. No loss there, as the competition can't do it either.
Seventh: 60p. Not gonna happen. No way, no how, not going to happen, this camera will never be able to record 60p (or 50p) on tape or on hard disk. Even though 60P is part of the HDV spec (and the JVC rep argued that it wasn't), it's irrelevant: the NTT encoding chips they're using cannot output 60p, so it *will not* have 60p or 50p. The only way to record 60p would be to plug the camera into a DVCPRO-HD deck, which will cost at least 4x as much as the camera, or to capture it into a dedicated RAID-based computer.
(the HDV press release, specifying 60p and 50p, is at: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200307/03-0704E/)
"Motion Smoothing": no way to tell. None of the prototype mules had motion smoothing enabled, and the footage they were showing on the plasma didn't have it enabled either. It would have been really nice to see how effective the motion smoothing filter is in recreating a look that approaches 60p, but it's not ready yet.
And finally, the footage: yes, they did have some footage playing there. You couldn't record footage from the cameras and play it back, so the only way to see footage was from a pre-recorded tape they had, shots of flowers and fountains, basically a lot of static shots with people walking through them in downtown. But the footage they were playing back from tape looked pretty bad. It was very soft, *really* noisy, and flat. Now, I don't think any judgement can be made based on that, for a number of reasons. First, these are pre-production prototypes, and who knows what may change between now and release. Second, the footage was playing back from D-VHS onto a plasma screen. The live footage was playing back on CRTs, and it looked great... so I would *really* have wanted to see the playback footage on the same kind of CRT, so we could make a fair comparison, but they only had it on a big plasma. So I don't know if the noise and "blah" of the footage was due to the compression or if, instead, it was just because of the plasma (something I'm willing to bet contributed to the look). Adam Wilt said about the same thing, and there's a guy on 2-pop (NBCShooter) who said the same thing about the footage, although he said he watched it on a CRT--? Don't know how, didn't see one playing back that footage. The difference between the live output and the playback was night and day, so I'm completely content to wait and see what footage comes forth. On the plus side, at least they *had* footage, something that of course the HVX doesn't have.
There was not really any way to judge motion from the playback footage, they didn't have any "motion smoothing" footage on display, so it was all straight 24p, but it looked blurry (another term the NBCShooter guy used as well). Don't know if they had a slower shutter speed active, or what. In short, I expect a lot more from the camera than what that footage showed, and I'm sure once we get functional models to play with we'll see better resuls. At least I hope so.
Finally: the HDV format. Or should I say "formats". For those who are considering going HDV you should be aware that the 1080 HDV and the 720 HDV are basically mutually incompatible. If you buy a JVC cam, and a post house hires you to shoot some HDV, and they only have Sony decks, they will *not* be able to digitize your footage! And vice versa. JVC has a new HDV deck that supports ProHD, DV, DVCAM, and HDV... but it *cannot* play 1080i HDV out the firewire port, so no digitizing of Sony HDV footage is possible.
We really should call the formats HDV1 (for 720p) and HDV2 (for 1080i), because they're not compatible. A Sony deck can play back an HDV1 tape to analog output on a television, but it *cannot* play it out the firewire, so you cannot digitize and edit that footage. And that's not for ProHD's 24p mode, I'm talking regular HDV here.
So basically there are three MPEG2 formats out there, all basically fundamentally incompatible with each other. There's 720/30p HDV1, 1080/60i HDV2, and 720/24P ProHD. No HDV1 or HDV2 deck can play ProHD material to firewire, no HDV2 deck can play HDV1 material to firewire, no HDV1 or ProHD deck can play HDV2 material to firewire, but ProHD decks can play HDV1 material to firewire.
Got that?
Basically, if you go JVC, and someone else goes Sony, even though you're both shooting "HDV", you're not going to be compatible and you will not be able to digitize the other guys' footage. Might as well be shooting two different formats (which, in effect, you are).
Okay, now to the summary: looks great, feels great in the hands, it's usable, and the live output looks good. If the output on tape looks as good as the live outputs, JVC will sell a ton of these. If, by some unimaginable disaster, the output on tape actually looks like what they had on display on the plasma, they'll have trouble giving these things away.
(speaking of which -- while I was there, they had a raffle or drawing, where they gave away a prize... and the prize was: a JVC HD10 high-def camcorder!)
Overall impression: quite impressed, and willing to give the footage the benefit of the doubt. It can only get better.
First things first -- the live analog out display was HOT! It looked great. They had a ring of HD CRT monitors above the cameras, and they had various camera configurations -- one was stock, one was with the wide-angle lens, one was set up for 24p shooting, etc. It looked really good on the monitors. It was totally high-def, I could see these cameras being used in a studio setting or in a low-cost HD field truck. You could get 60p or 24p live, so it's totally flexible.
Second: lenses. The included lens is, indeed, a truly manual lens. I think people who are wanting to get a camera to impress the neighbors will be a little disappointed, 'cause it's TINY -- it was very reminiscent of the Angenieux on my old Beaulieu 7008 Super8 cam. But it felt good, it was smooth, it was fast (iris opens to 1.4) and it had a nice range (16x, 5.5 to 88mm). That's the same range as the Canon XL1 16x, so you could get some very shallow DOF looks with it.
The optional wide-angle lens was, comparatively, the bomb. It was a class act, no wonder it's 10x the price. Much bigger, more pro, very nice. Very usable focal range too, from 3.5mm up to 46mm. That was a nice lens. That's the one you want.
Third: usability. Nice little camera. It's tiny, but that doesn't stop it from being usable. Lots of switches and dials where you expect them to be, that work the way you expect them to. Can't comment on the menus because these cameras had the menus locked-out, but as for base functionality, it was great!
Fourth: VF/LCD. The viewfinder and LCD are 4:3. That seemed odd, because they didn't seem to be taking advantage of the letterbox bars the same way as on the HVX -- info still covers up the image. But it looked good, didn't really get to delve into how high-res they are, but the peaking is superb, you can dial it in from mild to wild. Focus Assist was scary, it put red bars on the top and bottom and put the peaking info in red. Between those two, I think you'd stand a pretty good shot of getting the shots in focus in the field, something that just wasn't possible with the prior HD1 and HD10.
Fifth: hard disk recording. I'd heard a lot about hard disk recording on the JVC, I was expecting more than it is. What it is, is a rebadged Firestore FS-4. I thought it'd be an integrated solution, like they offered on the DV5000, but it's not. They said it had more control/integration than a regular FireStore, but if you were hoping for user-interchangeable hard drives, this isn't it. It's a $1500 option, and it sits on top of the camera shoe, tethered by a firewire cable. Not what I was expecting.
Sixth: HD-SDI. Nope. No digital output over HD-SDI. What they instead had was an $800 AJA box (I think it was AJA) that converts analog component into HD-SDI. So you won't get a digital output from the camera, you instead get analog output which gets converted by this third-party accessory and turns it into HD-SDI. Nothing wrong with that, that's how the Panasonic and Sony have to do it as well, but I had thought I'd heard reports that the JVC has actual HD-SDI, and it doesn't. No loss there, as the competition can't do it either.
Seventh: 60p. Not gonna happen. No way, no how, not going to happen, this camera will never be able to record 60p (or 50p) on tape or on hard disk. Even though 60P is part of the HDV spec (and the JVC rep argued that it wasn't), it's irrelevant: the NTT encoding chips they're using cannot output 60p, so it *will not* have 60p or 50p. The only way to record 60p would be to plug the camera into a DVCPRO-HD deck, which will cost at least 4x as much as the camera, or to capture it into a dedicated RAID-based computer.
(the HDV press release, specifying 60p and 50p, is at: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200307/03-0704E/)
"Motion Smoothing": no way to tell. None of the prototype mules had motion smoothing enabled, and the footage they were showing on the plasma didn't have it enabled either. It would have been really nice to see how effective the motion smoothing filter is in recreating a look that approaches 60p, but it's not ready yet.
And finally, the footage: yes, they did have some footage playing there. You couldn't record footage from the cameras and play it back, so the only way to see footage was from a pre-recorded tape they had, shots of flowers and fountains, basically a lot of static shots with people walking through them in downtown. But the footage they were playing back from tape looked pretty bad. It was very soft, *really* noisy, and flat. Now, I don't think any judgement can be made based on that, for a number of reasons. First, these are pre-production prototypes, and who knows what may change between now and release. Second, the footage was playing back from D-VHS onto a plasma screen. The live footage was playing back on CRTs, and it looked great... so I would *really* have wanted to see the playback footage on the same kind of CRT, so we could make a fair comparison, but they only had it on a big plasma. So I don't know if the noise and "blah" of the footage was due to the compression or if, instead, it was just because of the plasma (something I'm willing to bet contributed to the look). Adam Wilt said about the same thing, and there's a guy on 2-pop (NBCShooter) who said the same thing about the footage, although he said he watched it on a CRT--? Don't know how, didn't see one playing back that footage. The difference between the live output and the playback was night and day, so I'm completely content to wait and see what footage comes forth. On the plus side, at least they *had* footage, something that of course the HVX doesn't have.
There was not really any way to judge motion from the playback footage, they didn't have any "motion smoothing" footage on display, so it was all straight 24p, but it looked blurry (another term the NBCShooter guy used as well). Don't know if they had a slower shutter speed active, or what. In short, I expect a lot more from the camera than what that footage showed, and I'm sure once we get functional models to play with we'll see better resuls. At least I hope so.
Finally: the HDV format. Or should I say "formats". For those who are considering going HDV you should be aware that the 1080 HDV and the 720 HDV are basically mutually incompatible. If you buy a JVC cam, and a post house hires you to shoot some HDV, and they only have Sony decks, they will *not* be able to digitize your footage! And vice versa. JVC has a new HDV deck that supports ProHD, DV, DVCAM, and HDV... but it *cannot* play 1080i HDV out the firewire port, so no digitizing of Sony HDV footage is possible.
We really should call the formats HDV1 (for 720p) and HDV2 (for 1080i), because they're not compatible. A Sony deck can play back an HDV1 tape to analog output on a television, but it *cannot* play it out the firewire, so you cannot digitize and edit that footage. And that's not for ProHD's 24p mode, I'm talking regular HDV here.
So basically there are three MPEG2 formats out there, all basically fundamentally incompatible with each other. There's 720/30p HDV1, 1080/60i HDV2, and 720/24P ProHD. No HDV1 or HDV2 deck can play ProHD material to firewire, no HDV2 deck can play HDV1 material to firewire, no HDV1 or ProHD deck can play HDV2 material to firewire, but ProHD decks can play HDV1 material to firewire.
Got that?
Basically, if you go JVC, and someone else goes Sony, even though you're both shooting "HDV", you're not going to be compatible and you will not be able to digitize the other guys' footage. Might as well be shooting two different formats (which, in effect, you are).
Okay, now to the summary: looks great, feels great in the hands, it's usable, and the live output looks good. If the output on tape looks as good as the live outputs, JVC will sell a ton of these. If, by some unimaginable disaster, the output on tape actually looks like what they had on display on the plasma, they'll have trouble giving these things away.
(speaking of which -- while I was there, they had a raffle or drawing, where they gave away a prize... and the prize was: a JVC HD10 high-def camcorder!)
Overall impression: quite impressed, and willing to give the footage the benefit of the doubt. It can only get better.