720p v. 1080p

[ccroo]

This might sound dopey but how big a difference will there be between 720p and 1080p when you do a film out? Instinctively, of course, the answer is 1080p will look a whole lot better... But the storage issues get really rough at 1080p. It would be nice to think you'd do just fine with 720p.

Maybe a better question is, when do we use 720p and when does it make sense to do 1080p?

[Barry_Green]

Without having a chance to test, there's no way to offer a valid answer.

Instinctually, I can tell you that I would expect to shoot 1080/24p whenever possible.

720p will excel when you want to employ slow motion, fast motion, or other variable frame rates, or if the product you're shooting is intended for a 720p broadcast, or for display on a 720p-native display (such as most LCDs and Plasmas).

[10s]

Let 's say this, for film out there are actresses that demand a filter to soften their skin, especially on 1080. If you were fortunate enough to see "Once upon a time in Mexico", in the theater you saw 1080p transfered to film...it looked super clear, bold colors and better than most film prints...which sometimes isn't saying much.

720P film out looks beautiful also but is softer. The Varicam filmouts look great in my opinion, many prefer the softening effect to 1080P. For me I like em both. It depends upon what look you're afte. Film is now using Digital Intermediates for color correction, etc... essentially most all major films are a combo of film & HD video. I don't hear many purists complaining about that little step.

The challenge we will still have is latitude & Shallow DOF. Other than that, we're getting nearer to film.

For me 1080P 24 fps is the ticket, I can always soften it in post if that's what I want.

[nullphonic]

(Just thinking out loud)

For us, we're not interested at all in film outs, all of our stuff goes straight to DVD anyway. I am however completely interested in totally abusing and possibly overusing the potential motion effects possible with the variable frame rates and in order to keep it consistent we'll probably stay in 720p (consistent meaning our slow-motion, fast-motion and normal speed shots will stay in 720p res).

I'm more psyched about the variable frame rates than the resolution I guess :shocked:

[kyle_doris]

(Just thinking out loud)

For us, we're not interested at all in film outs, all of our stuff goes straight to DVD anyway. I am however completely interested in totally abusing and possibly overusing the potential motion effects possible with the variable frame rates and in order to keep it consistent we'll probably stay in 720p (consistent meaning our slow-motion, fast-motion and normal speed shots will stay in 720p res).

I'm more psyched about the variable frame rates than the resolution I guess :shocked:


i really tend to agree with you here, i've seen film outs of the SDX900 (not even HD) and the Varicam, and honestly they both looked AWESOME. granted we are dealing with smaller chips. but i do really like the idea of being able to shoot variable framerates.

would this be possible guys? shoot your 24p @ 1080 and shoot your variable frame rate (slow mo n' stuff) @ 720?, i mean i'm assuming the only time you'd see a real difference is on a film out, so what's the point right? but i mean it would increase the over all quality of a downconversion to DVD, because all your footage would be native 1080p for most of the flick, while the slow motion and stuff would be slightly less quality in resolution. those variable frame rates are just so tasty!

just a thought.

[Neil Rowe]

..nope. thats impossible. theres no way on earh you can simplly uprez or downrez footage shot in a different resolution to match the resolution of your project.

lol.. anyway .. yes, of course you could do that. .. and your NLE will probably do it for you automatically . the NLEs that work with HD are mostly resolution independent on the timeline, and will scale any footage from any res you plop on there to the res of the project for output. so you can mix HD 720 or 1080 and SD DV and D1 and so on all on the same timeline without hassle.

[Jarred Land]

yes... remember that DVCproHD 1080i is an uprez all by itself coming from +/- 1200 lines from the camera.

[schteevie]

so is it safe to say that if your end product is never intended to go to film and will be delivered to HD networks for broadcast, that you would always shoot 720P and not need to go as high as 1080??

I am just trying to wrap my head arond HDTV standards...?

[Neil Rowe]

unless the network needs 1080.

[Bart_Boge]

If DVD is the final intended medium, there is no frickin' way anyone will be able to tell what was shot @ 720p and what was shot 1080p. Both are massive resolution overkill for the 720 x 480 mpeg2 stream standard.

Production-wise, this would make the most sense to me:

DVD projects--Shoot them all in 720p. In post you have more cropping flexibility to slightly alter the framing of shots and even zoom in almost 1.5x without resolution degradation (720 vs. 480), good color depth, and, of course, kick-arse slow-mo possibilities. Not to mention that the project is future-proofed if a client wants a hi-def version later.

Film-outs--Shoot as much in 1080p as possible, using 720p for variable frame rates. During dreamy, slo-mo scenes, a slightly softer look probably wouldn't make your shots suffer that much. 35mm transfer will look "Attack of the Clones" sharp (of course, assuming everything else--lighting/exposure/color/production values/directing/acting, etc., are up to snuff).

Broadcast HD--Depends on what they want. Sounds to me like most want 1080. I suppose the subject matter is an important consideration, as for most "character-driven" stories the resolution of 720p might be perfectly acceptable for everything. Otherwise, the mix as per "film-outs" (above) would seem to make the most sense.

EDIT: Barry's post (pg. 2) is more specific regarding broadcast formats. I defer to the master...

[soarprod]

depends on the network - I will prolly only shoot 720p - for the storage savings on p2

[Barry_Green]

so is it safe to say that if your end product is never intended to go to film and will be delivered to HD networks for broadcast, that you would always shoot 720P and not need to go as high as 1080??

I am just trying to wrap my head arond HDTV standards...?
If you're intending to broadcast your project, and you know which network you're going to, then shoot in their preferred mode. ABC/Fox/ESPN are all 720p, NBC/CBS/Discovery/PBS are all 1080i.

If you don't know which network will pick up your footage, then you're looking at a potential conversion from one format to the other anyway, so just pick the format that suits your project better. If you know you won't be needing variable frame rates or P2 card space saving, shoot 1080. If you know you will be needing variable frame rates, or you'll really need the extra storage space on the card, go ahead and shoot 720.