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View Full Version : Ah so it does do 4:4:4 uncompressed output



NeedCreative
05-29-2011, 09:56 PM
Interesting, looking at Sony's site I noticed the brochure was revised from March to May. The workflow page on the new brochure is totally different and notes the following:

"HDMI 1.4 Output with Embedded Time code for 4:2:2 or RGB 4:4:4 Uncompressed Signal Output When shooting, the NEX-FS100U provides HDMI 4:2:2 or RGB 4:4:4 uncompressed output with an embedded SMPTE Time code and embedded 2-3 pull-down markers for recording on external disc recorders.

Note: Embedding 2-3 pull-down markers enables material originally recorded at 24p and converted to 60i to be recognized once more as 24p in the HDMI output signal."

http://ws.sel.sony.com/PIPWebServices/RetrievePublicAsset/StepID/SEL-asset-261029/original/nexfs100u_brochure_v2497.pdf

Now I don't know if 4:2:2 is an option? I do know RGB 4:4:4 is in the HDMI spec. So it looks like we can get 4:4:4 uncompressed out of the HDMI of this camera. (Albeit 8-bit.) Even the F3 doesn't output 4:4:4 out of the box - that's an addon that will cost $$. (It does output 10 bit 4:2:0 though).

Other changes: Sony now directly compares it's sensor to the micro 4/3rds instead of just a "conventional camcorder" as well as a "full frame DSLR camera" for sensitivity instead of just a DSLR. They note there are 3 1/4 mounts on the top of the camera now (there's one under the hot shoe and that is what the handle mounts into, not the hot shoe itself). They also note the addition of a hard side case as an option and removed the soft-sided cases listed in accessories.

Nothing else changed in the brochure, and their site still indicates 4:2:0 but the brochure linked from it now says 4:4:4.

ectobuilder
05-29-2011, 11:46 PM
Interesting, looking at Sony's site I noticed the brochure was revised from March to May. The workflow page on the new brochure is totally different and notes the following:

"HDMI 1.4 Output with Embedded Time code for 4:2:2 or RGB 4:4:4 Uncompressed Signal Output When shooting, the NEX-FS100U provides HDMI 4:2:2 or RGB 4:4:4 uncompressed output with an embedded SMPTE Time code and embedded 2-3 pull-down markers for recording on external disc recorders.

Note: Embedding 2-3 pull-down markers enables material originally recorded at 24p and converted to 60i to be recognized once more as 24p in the HDMI output signal."

http://ws.sel.sony.com/PIPWebServices/RetrievePublicAsset/StepID/SEL-asset-261029/original/nexfs100u_brochure_v2497.pdf

Now I don't know if 4:2:2 is an option? I do know RGB 4:4:4 is in the HDMI spec. So it looks like we can get 4:4:4 uncompressed out of the HDMI of this camera. (Albeit 8-bit.) Even the F3 doesn't output 4:4:4 out of the box - that's an addon that will cost $$. (It does output 10 bit 4:2:0 though).

Other changes: Sony now directly compares it's sensor to the micro 4/3rds instead of just a "conventional camcorder" as well as a "full frame DSLR camera" for sensitivity instead of just a DSLR. They note there are 3 1/4 mounts on the top of the camera now (there's one under the hot shoe and that is what the handle mounts into, not the hot shoe itself). They also note the addition of a hard side case as an option and removed the soft-sided cases listed in accessories.

Nothing else changed in the brochure, and their site still indicates 4:2:0 but the brochure linked from it now says 4:4:4.

Yes it does 8-bit 4:4:4 (would've been nice if it was 12-bit, but I'll take that). I've emailed Cinedeck and the people there are confirming that their acceptance of 8-bit 4:4:4 match's Sony's output. So their people are talking to Sony's people.

Will keep you updated.

Also if you go to Sony Videon's website there is a NAB presentation given by Doug Jensen and he specifically mentions in the presentation that it does 8-bit 4:4:4 (much to his surprise as he was told on the day of the presentation by Sony, might have been a last minute thing). The reason why the 8-bit 4:4:4 hasn't gotten much press is because there is NO official external recorder that can capture this signal. The closest is Cinedeck Extreme but they are in the process of confirming with Sony.

speedracerlo
05-30-2011, 12:07 AM
Cinedeck costs 10k
I don't think that's within most FS-100 users' budgets
I'll wait a bit on getting an external recorder until more products are geared for this camera.

Postmaster
05-30-2011, 12:36 AM
The Cinemartin should be able to capture 8bit 4:4:4.

Canīt wait to get my test unit and throw the FS100 at it.

Also a RGB to SDI converter and a Black Magic Hyperdeck should be able to do the trick.

Frank

cheezweezl
05-30-2011, 01:10 AM
Won't any of the 10bit prores recorders work? Or are they totally incompatible?

Postmaster
05-30-2011, 04:36 AM
Only the Cinedeck and Cinemartin have RGB input.

Frank

Duke M.
05-30-2011, 08:50 AM
Why wouldn't the Gemini work when it comes out this summer?

Shipsides
05-30-2011, 09:40 AM
The Gemini takes 4:4:4 input via Dual Link HD-SDI, it does not have an HDMI input. So you would have to convert to HD-SDI first to use it. Honestly though their is very little advantage to going 4:4:4 anyway, only in the case of doing visual effects work would it be useful.

vcfilms
05-30-2011, 09:54 AM
The Gemini takes 4:4:4 input via Dual Link HD-SDI, it does not have an HDMI input. So you would have to convert to HD-SDI first to use it. Honestly though their is very little advantage to going 4:4:4 anyway, only in the case of doing visual effects work would it be useful.


+1. Unless your working on a heavy vfx or heavy greenscreen project, you're really not gaining much. Much more would have been gained in 10-bit vs 8-bit, imo

Postmaster
05-30-2011, 11:20 AM
Yeah, unfortunately.

Matthew Bennett
05-30-2011, 12:05 PM
I disagree actually, I've worked with LOG 4:4:4 8bit quite a lot and it is damn flexible in post. It's not a miracle or anything, but you can draw fairly aggressive curves and it won't break up in a foul way.

The 4:4:4 HDMI feature is actually a huge bonus form my point of view. Just having every bit of color accounted for is a really good feeling.

This feature combined with good shooting will yield very very pleasing results.

NeedCreative
05-30-2011, 08:00 PM
+1. Unless your working on a heavy vfx or heavy greenscreen project, you're really not gaining much. Much more would have been gained in 10-bit vs 8-bit, imo

I agree. While it's nice 10 bit vs 8 bit would be more noticeable for sure.

NeedCreative
05-30-2011, 08:01 PM
I disagree actually, I've worked with LOG 4:4:4 8bit quite a lot and it is damn flexible in post. It's not a miracle or anything, but you can draw fairly aggressive curves and it won't break up in a foul way.

The 4:4:4 HDMI feature is actually a huge bonus form my point of view. Just having every bit of color accounted for is a really good feeling.

This feature combined with good shooting will yield very very pleasing results.

Yes but we're talking 444 but no LOG output. Sony's saving that for the F3.

Rick Burnett
06-01-2011, 03:46 PM
Wow, 4:4:4 will be NICE for scenes I am doing heavy VFX work on. Now I'll just need a recorder for those times! :)

olindacat
06-01-2011, 06:34 PM
Yeah, and one that doesn't cost $5K!

Rick Burnett
06-01-2011, 06:46 PM
There is that too! :) Does the Blackmagic do 4:4:4? Normally my VFX scenes are pretty short so I *could* use that if needed.

cheezweezl
06-01-2011, 07:37 PM
blackmagic is uncompressed but only 4:2:2 if i'm not mistaken.

Postmaster
06-02-2011, 03:05 AM
4:2:2 - 10bit.

The BM Hyperdeck does exactly the opposite what one would need for the AF100.

Cinemartin would be your next best bet.

Frank