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View Full Version : Hello Panasonic, selling my FX1



princigalli
04-18-2005, 02:12 AM
Good thing I kept the original box, manual, and cables. I have a few months to make sure all the bits and pieces are in one place. The FX1 is going on Ebay soon. It was a nice camera despite its compression problems, autofocus problems, interlacing, resolution and latitude problems.

Really, it is still a great camera and in the right conditions can produce great footage, but obviously it is no match to the new Panasonic.

The only thing that I'm curious about is, will anyone still buy a new FX1 or Z1? I got mine despite Barry Green's posts about future Panasonic cameras, only because there's Ebay. I wanted to play with the HDV, I had fun, despite the fact I find it mostly useless in many cases.

So, funally the camera I always wanted to have!

thisiswells
04-18-2005, 02:35 AM
I bought a MicroMV "super8" style cam because it was so cool. And, it was.

I eventually sold it, but it was by far the funnest camera to shoot with, ever!

Kind of wish I had another one.

Aaron Koolen
04-18-2005, 02:56 AM
I think people will definately want a Z1 or FX1; if your client demands a tape and also want's HD. That's one thing the new Panasonic won't have. You'd have to print them a tape from either the P2 or hard drive.

Aaron

Bryan
04-18-2005, 03:07 AM
I thought I read that the new Panasonic records to both tape and P2

Aaron Koolen
04-18-2005, 04:05 AM
Bryan, it will but it won't do HD to tape as far as we know at the moment. It is a miniDV deck, and so will be DV25 only if that is the case. Therefore, if a client wanted tapes after a shoot, and wanted you to shoot in HiDef, you might have a problem with the HVX200.

Aaron

Barry_Green
04-18-2005, 04:08 AM
Correct. So if you shot with an HVX, you'd want to give your client a hard disk, rather than tape. Just be aware that your client will probably smooch you for doing so.

satellitebunny
04-18-2005, 06:56 AM
I'm selling my FX1 too. Eventually. Propably spring or summer 2006.

The FX1's compression is really bad for colour correcting, although it has almost a perfect form factor, as you can pseudo mount it to your shoulder, because of the placement of the LCD.

The HVX200 is really the most horrible piece of industrial design, with everything in the wrong places. But, I guess if I'm able to shoot 100 Mbit/s 1280X1080 25p 4:2:2 straight to firewire or USB2.0 harddisk, then there really is no comparison. Picture quality before ergonomics and looks.

princigalli
04-18-2005, 09:41 AM
With the HVX200 specs and that kind of compression, I think I would much prefer good 720p than the FX1 1080i. And yes, the compression is horrible. But what's worse, because of autofocus problems, the already not so sharp picture ends up being really blurry sometimes.

letsburnbridges
04-18-2005, 12:37 PM
why not just learn to use manual focus instead of relying on autofocus...

princigalli
04-18-2005, 11:29 PM
I am using manual focus now but I want to have the autofocus option. There are some situations where you need to have autofocus. Also, when visibility is bad, you can't always finetune your manual focus while recording. In any case at that prce I expect an autofocus option that works.

dvxshooter
04-23-2005, 12:13 AM
After speaking to the Panasonic people at NAB, they were very clear that the DV drive is non-HD compatible - it's for people using DVX100 cameras that want to integrate the new 200 camera without being forced to go to P2 - and HD. It is also interesting to note that while the Sony and JVC cameras are functional, the 200 is not. There is apparently no working version of it yet - just the "frankenstein" prototypes in Japan - according to the reps at the show.

princigalli
04-23-2005, 03:50 AM
I like the P2. U think it's a much more civilized way to work than tapes. But I m too worried about the fact that Panasonic is not ready yet. I don't think they will be selling their cameras on time. How could they? You need to design, produce, beta test, write instructions, prepare the packaging, marketing, distribution... There is no way, and frankly, anyone could present a camera looking toy at NAB. I could too come in and announce the next "Princialli" Super HD Cam. It will be 2160 lines progressive, 120 FPS and will have a lossless compression codec that works on regular CF Cards. 1Gb will store 60 minutes of full resolution video. 3 1/2 CCDs, and the camera fits in the pocket :-)

No really, if Panasonic really comes out with such a camera, it will blow the competition, but for now it looks like they are still just brainstorming, so my FX1 will have to wait a while before being sold.

thisiswells
04-23-2005, 03:59 AM
JVC reps quietly observed they only had the HD100's for about two weeks prior to NAB...
So, while they have A camera, it isn't finished, either. The 48/24 frame-blending thing wasn't enabled.

Jan_Crittenden
04-23-2005, 09:01 AM
But I m too worried about the fact that Panasonic is not ready yet. I don't think they will be selling their cameras on time. How could they? You need to design, produce, beta test, write instructions, prepare the packaging, marketing, distribution... There is no way, and frankly, anyone could present a camera looking toy at NAB.
No really, if Panasonic really comes out with such a camera, it will blow the competition, but for now it looks like they are still just brainstorming, so my FX1 will have to wait a while before being sold.

May I point to the fact that in 2002 we showed a "toy" DVX100 at NAB and delivered a real camera in October? What you say is impossible, we have already done. And I would suggest that if the FX1 is your only camera that you hold on to it until this camera shows up.

Best regards,

Jan

princigalli
04-23-2005, 12:52 PM
I wasn't there. If that's the case, my apology. Anyway Panasonic camera specs always seem to break the limits of what's possible. The DVX100 was an incredible camera, and still unique with its quality and 25fps progressive scan. The new camera also has dream specs. I have to keep my FX1 until the new Panasonic comes out, but I do it reluctantly. I really NEED a camera with the specs of HDV. No other camera can do it, not even the new JVC.

David Jimerson
04-23-2005, 03:58 PM
Just be aware that your client will probably smooch you for doing so.

For one of my recent clients, that would have been OK. :evil: :beer:

Rosestar
04-23-2005, 10:34 PM
JVC reps quietly observed they only had the HD100's for about two weeks prior to NAB...
So, while they have A camera, it isn't finished, either. The 48/24 frame-blending thing wasn't enabled.

That's right, JVC will not have their production cams until June or July.

I was wondering, if anyone that went to NAB could tell me how the JVC and Sony presented the images of their HDV cams? Did they play from tape, or were they using the HD component out from the cams.

I have heard alot about the Sony giving out a DVD with samples of their HDV, does anyone know how it was posted? Does anyone know how to get a copy of the DVD. Would be interesting to see.

David Jimerson
04-23-2005, 11:04 PM
There was a lot of live feed. I don't think I saw anything from tape (true for most exhibits).

Barry_Green
04-23-2005, 11:33 PM
JVC had live feed from the cameras, and then they had one station that had a plasma TV hooked up that was playing back ProHD footage that had been recorded onto a D-VHS deck.

thisiswells
04-24-2005, 12:15 AM
Funny thing is D-VHS is a consumer friendly replacement for the family room VCR. Even though it was never imagined for professional applications it has a datarate 50% higher than HDV. Now, that just doesn't make any sense.

10s
04-24-2005, 12:54 AM
Too bad D-VHS type ideas ( using exsisting VHS cassettes for digital recording) didn't take hold. Personally I like lots of room on a tape for redundant data and a thick mil. not miniDV....too wimpy. Bigger cameras are more my style anyway.

As for the Sony,

I just read an article in Highdef magazine about a guy with a Z1 that loves the images& camera. He cuts it with images from his $100,000 + F900 Sony HD camera. The Z1 must do pretty well to get such a strong endorsement.

There will be plenty of people happy to own such a camera. I tend to believe the new HDX200 will be much better for me but there are those that will want it.

thisiswells
04-24-2005, 01:49 AM
Finally having the opportunity to handle the Z1 this week, I'll say I was really surprised/impressed with the way it handled. It just "felt" good, you know. The zoom servo was really responsive and the widescreen monitor was in a pretty good spot when camera was on sticks. I never saw the output from tape, but it definitely had a "professional" appearance that (and everyone should know by now my preference for Panasonic, the DVCPRO-HD system, and VariCam) well, the HVX200 didn't. The HD100 even had the appearance of a professional product. Maybe it was just the colors. Maybe subliminally, I just don't respond well to blue or aerodynamically-shaped camcorders and prefer black, old fashioned gear better, but the competing products did appear to be more expensive looking. Of course, the proof is in the pudding. A friend of mine in New Orleans bought a Z1 after attending a VariCamp this year.. says he's pretty happy with it with some tweaking. Of course, for me and the type of things I need to do with a camera, an HVX200 and MiniDV with be a perfect match..

brian wells

Rosestar
04-24-2005, 08:02 PM
I just read an article in Highdef magazine about a guy with a Z1 that loves the images& camera. He cuts it with images from his $100,000 + F900 Sony HD camera. The Z1 must do pretty well to get such a strong endorsement.



I'd imagine that footage from a Z1 would cut well with the F900. It is obvious that the HDV was posted on HDCAM and not on HDV. That's the problem I have with the HDV format. If I had all the money in the world (or just a lot more than I have, I would buy a Z1 now and get an HVX when it comes out. I bet the Z1 is very cool. But econmics ya know.

Rosestar
04-24-2005, 08:08 PM
JVC had live feed from the cameras, and then they had one station that had a plasma TV hooked up that was playing back ProHD footage that had been recorded onto a D-VHS deck.

Why do you think they showed the video this way?

Has anyone seen footage from the JVC cam played back from tape?

I wonder how well HDV or at least JVC's flavor of HDV handles the pulldown?

thisiswells
04-24-2005, 08:22 PM
This is only a guess, but they never claimed the footage from D-VHS was a dub from HDV. They only said it was from the HD100. My conjecture is they may have recorded directly to D-VHS through the analog outputs of the HD100. Why? Maybe the cameras didn't have a working tape mechanism at the time of the show and also because D-VHS uses 50% more data than HDV. If the HDV looked bad, they might have chosen D-VHS thinking no-body would notice the difference and write D-VHS off as a consumer format, as opposed to recording on whatever JVC offers for highbitrate HD.. DigitalS-HD? I don't know. This is only a guess and is really, come to think of it, pretty malicious. The point is, we don't know what that footage was coming off of, and it just looks a little suspicious to me, that's all. It would seem that if they wanted to be "above board" they could have just playedback from a camera. This would make sense to me. Why appear so close to the edge if you don't have to? The pulldown is an interesting question too. Was it 24p footage playing or 30p? I don't have the answer to that question. Can D-VHS support 24p and 30p? I don't have the answer to that, either. You bring up an interesting question, Rosestar.

brian wells

Barry_Green
04-24-2005, 08:25 PM
I have no actual idea why they chose to display it this way. I can take guesses...

First, they probably don't have a running ProHD deck, and the footage they were showing was 24p (which means ProHD), so they probably captured it through analog. But why not play it back on the same device that captured it?

Second, the plasma was a big screen, 50" or so. But if that's the reason they chose for using it, I think it was a mistake -- the CRTs looked so much better. Part of that may have been because of the size of the CRTs too -- the smaller the display device, the less noticeable noise/grain would be, so showing it on a 50" screen may have exaggerated those artifacts.

Or it just may have been a lousy screen.

Or it may have been suffering scaling artifacts; maybe the plasma wasn't native 1280x720.

No idea, really.

Finally, JVC's ProHD doesn't use pulldown, it stores the native 24p frames as 24p, as near as I can tell.

Rosestar
04-24-2005, 08:52 PM
How do you think it looked?

Barry_Green
04-24-2005, 09:39 PM
Like I said before, I don't think it'd be fair to judge the camera based on this footage. If for no other reason, because this footage looked pretty bad, and the live output coming from the cameras right next to it looked very, very good. So I don't think this would be a fair way to judge it. I'm more than content to wait for a shipping camera, so we can control the variables that go into producing the footage and displaying it, and therefore know what it's truly capable of.

fishquail
04-25-2005, 01:46 AM
I have a question.
All you people who say they are going to sell there DVX or FX1 or what-have-you in order to buy this HVX200 when it arrives.... How much do you think you can get for these used cameras respectivly? I am just curious, cause I have an XL2, DVX100, sony TRV900 myself - but I would sell them all for a camera that claims to be this good. ... So, How much do aftermarket XL2's , FX1s, DVX's and other cams usually go for on E-Bay or something? ... cause, I just cant belive you could make much ... maybe Im wrong. ???

Tyson

thisiswells
04-25-2005, 02:10 AM
Your DV equipment will be valuable for some time to come.
You can search completed auctions on eBay to get an idea of what stuff sells for.
An original DVX100 (non a) sells for right around 2,000 - 2,200 most of the time.

Hope this helps.
brian wells