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View Full Version : Birger Engineering EF/E Mount adaptor



imag
05-02-2011, 03:29 PM
I just talked to Birger about their trick E Mount-to-EF adapter & follow focus. They had a few things to say, and they actually asked me to post to save them from getting a bunch of phone calls. The word is:

1. They confirmed that the FS100 will start shipping in May.

2. They were originally told the FS wouldn't come out until July, so they were thinking a July/August ship date would be fine on the FS100 product (the AF100 product is supposed to hit in late May). Now they are looking at accelerating their ship date for their FS100 product.

3. However, they will not be able to confirm the ship date for their product for approximately two more weeks.

4. The best way to find out when they confirm the ship dates is to get on their general email list. Do not call and bug them.

5. Their product will sell through their normal dealer channel. They said they will have more than enough available for everyone on the initial ship date, no matter when that is.

Cheers...

Rick Burnett
05-02-2011, 03:57 PM
Which brings about a good question, does anyone have recommendations for dumb mounts for EF/E to use while we wait?

imag
05-02-2011, 05:01 PM
I'm trying to figure that out. If anyone has experience with the RJ or anything else, that would be super helpful.

I'm also trying to find out if Birger's focus/iris gadget will support EF lenses other than Canon's L lenses. I would like to get a Tokina and a Sigma or two. I should have asked when I had them on the phone.

imag
05-02-2011, 05:07 PM
This is interesting. I doubt it will come out before Birger's, nor does it look like they are nearly as pro as Birger, but it's kind of fun: http://www.youtube.com/user/conurus

brunerww
05-03-2011, 01:00 AM
Which brings about a good question, does anyone have recommendations for dumb mounts for EF/E to use while we wait?

Here's one from Rainbow Imaging for $23 from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003XY8DF4/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=battleforthew-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399349&creativeASIN=B003XY8DF4) (go to the "3 new from $17.99" link). I have had good experiences with inexpensive adapters from Amazon (and if they don't work, you can send them back).

imag
05-03-2011, 07:08 AM
Edit: dumb question answered.

echo9
05-03-2011, 07:35 AM
Did they say what the price would be? Last I heard it was going to be around $700 for the adapter and $500 for the follow focus controller.

I have some pretty nice EF lenses (Sigma primes and what not), but I'm having a hard time justifying the Birger mount if it's that much (as compared to buying some Nikon lenses and a dummy Nikon adapter). If I had a bunch of L glass that'd be different, but since I don't, I could probably get a set of Nikon D primes for less than the cost of the Birger adapter. :undecided

imag
05-03-2011, 01:21 PM
I don't understand - if you're worried about the price and are going to get a dumb adapter, why don't just get a dumb adapter for your EF lenses? The Birger is not the only EF option, as the link above shows; it's just the one to get if you really want remote follow focus, iris control, and all the other cool Birger stuff (like the encoding of the lens settings in the footage).

The ballpark you are mentioning is right - I actually heard $700 per part, or $1400 total.

szimmer
05-03-2011, 01:48 PM
It is pricey but the remote ff controller looks so sweet. Seems like a worthy investment and will really make the Sony camera quite powerful and great for run & gun.

Rick Burnett
05-03-2011, 04:23 PM
For me I want remote operation of my lens when they are on my crane.

echo9
05-03-2011, 05:11 PM
I don't understand - if you're worried about the price and are going to get a dumb adapter, why don't just get a dumb adapter for your EF lenses? The Birger is not the only EF option, as the link above shows; it's just the one to get if you really want remote follow focus, iris control, and all the other cool Birger stuff (like the encoding of the lens settings in the footage).

The ballpark you are mentioning is right - I actually heard $700 per part, or $1400 total.


Well, having iris control is pretty essential unless you want to shoot everything wide open. You can't do that with a dummy mount.

JAWflyer3
05-03-2011, 05:43 PM
Are there any more announced adapters that are going to hit the market? Or is this the only one so far (With iris control and what not)

Rick Burnett
05-03-2011, 06:03 PM
I believe there is another one as well, was it Red Rock? Although I think it does not interface with the camera, it only supplies control on the mount to electronically control the lens aperture.

JAWflyer3
05-03-2011, 06:09 PM
Hopefully it doesn't cost $700 as well, I want to keep my canon lenses for photography...

brunerww
05-03-2011, 06:14 PM
...why don't just get a dumb adapter for your EF lenses?

Don't want to speak for echo, but probably because most Nikon lenses have an aperture ring, and most EF lenses don't.

Rick Burnett
05-03-2011, 06:16 PM
I *think* I heard that it was going to be in the $400 range?

echo9
05-03-2011, 06:53 PM
Don't want to speak for echo, but probably because most Nikon lenses have an aperture ring, and most EF lenses don't.

That's it exactly! :)

I've been looking at some old Canon FD lenses on eBay, but you can get new Nikon primes for roughly the same price.

Of course if I were rich I'd just get some Zeiss CP2s! :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

Sam Scoggins
05-03-2011, 09:10 PM
I've never used an E mount. On the the Wikipedia E Mount page it says the following about Minolta AF Lenses, presumably this will apply to the FS100?
"Minolta AF lenses can be used via the Sony LA-EA1 camera mount adapter which has electronic contacts and mechanical diaphragm control. This allows the body to control the aperture of the Minolta AF lens and provides Auto Exposure and Exif data support, and adds slow (2-7 seconds) autofocus with 14 supported lenses"

imag
05-03-2011, 10:49 PM
Ah. I see. Should have put that together. Sorry.

I want some CP2s too...

imag
05-05-2011, 10:06 AM
FYI - just talked to Birger. They said that non-L lenses and third party lenses will likely work with their mount, but they may have some focus drift and require recalibration of the follow focus during takes. He said the Sigmas also have a noticeably audible iris that some people have found to be objectionable.

Anyway, I'm just glad that I don't have to have all L glass.

conurus
05-06-2011, 04:25 PM
This is interesting. I doubt it will come out before Birger's, nor does it look like they are nearly as pro as Birger, but it's kind of fun: http://www.youtube.com/user/conurus

Thank you for finding us and watching us. Allow me to comment on a few things.
1, according to Birger's schedule, yes, Conurus will almost certainly ship later than Birger.
2, Birger is aimed towards professional cinematography but Conurus is aimed towards professional still photography while embracing the enthusiasts' market at the same time. This being a video forum, there is no doubt most participants would find Birger to be more appropriate for their requirements.
3, There is no follow focus and no iris controller from Conurus. Conurus' emphasis is on small size, ease of setup, and direct aperture control from the camera body. Think street shots and photojournalism with for example a NEX-5.
4, Hindsight being 20/20, it might have been better for us to not show this video, because it gave potential customers a misrepresented perception of the quality of the final product. We have been in business since 2006, machining mounts with great precision and a polished appearance, and our upcoming product will just continue that longstanding tradition. Just ask anyone with one of those autofocus Contax N Carl Zeiss lenses converted to Canon EF mount about our workmanship. We are certainly going to upload another video when the final version is ready in order to change this perception.
5, Pricing has not been finalized but let's say it is not as affordable as a "dumb" adapter but not as expensive as Birger, emphasizing again the fact that the two products are designed with completely different applications in mind, and serve completely different purposes.

JAWflyer3
05-06-2011, 05:31 PM
Thanks for the post Conurus!

J Davis
05-06-2011, 09:12 PM
For me I want remote operation of my lens when they are on my crane.

Which crane do u have? (I'm crane shopping) ... Sorry for off topic in this thread

imag
05-06-2011, 09:37 PM
I will echo the thanks. I do agree that the video didn't cast you all in the best light. I think it's great that you came on to clear up misconceptions.

I will definitely keep an eye out for your product; if it is as well executed as you say, it might be worth getting in any case. The $1400 from Birger may end up being too much for a lot of of us.

imag
05-15-2011, 01:15 PM
Tomorrow is two weeks from my original call. Hopefully they issue some kind of date, and hopefully that date is as close to June 1 as possible... :)

imag
05-17-2011, 10:48 AM
So I broke down and called them, and a woman said that she had heard the adapter would be released end of May, but that's all she knew. It wasn't super-convincing.

Birger - if you're out there, could you post to your email list or to the site the availability date of your product? Some of us are looking into other options...

imag
05-21-2011, 11:10 PM
The email from Birger came out (Thanks Erik if you're reading this!). It seemed like it would be okay to post for those who are interested:

At NAB Birger demonstrated functioning concept models of a new lens mount system for both the Sony NEX-FS100 and the Panasonic AF-100 cameras. These concept systems demonstrated electronic control of the focus and iris on Canon EF-mount lenses. This email is an update on those products specifically for the Broadcast market. Updates for the Industrial and Scientific; and Military, Security and Surveillance markets will be coming in the near future.

The AF-100 version of the product will come first, followed soon after by the Sony PMW-F3, Sony NEX-FS100 and the Arri Alexa. As we did the initial work for these cameras, it became clear that we needed to make some changes to our new generation of lens control platform, to economically develop and manufacture these additional variants.

It became clear from our conversations at NAB that an economical (and unobtrusive) wireless solution was important. We will be coming out with a hot-shoe mounted radio receiver (approximately 30mm cube) that will not require a separate power connection or battery, to remain powered from the lens mount, even during lens changes. Fortunately we realized the importance of this module prior to releasing the first adapters, as it would not have been possible without some small changes.

This talk of change generally raises questions of price and schedule. While we are adding significant flexibility to the system, I am happy to say there will be negative effect on price. We are finalizing some of the design and manufacturing issues to get ready for a volume release of the AF-100 EF-mount Adapter, and when we have the last details worked through, we will announce that we are ready to begin full scale production. At this point we will first show the final version of the product, announce the dealers, and be about two weeks away from volume shipments.

Those that have expressed (and wish to express) interest in selling our products should know that we feel it most important to attend to the product related issues first. We will be releasing more information on the dealer program, contracts and a closing date for orders for the initial production build in the next few weeks. We will not be accepting any deposits, orders or payments until the product is ready for production - and we have done a public demonstration. All orders at that point will require prepayment, so we can fairly allocate inventory worldwide. We are planning an initial build of 1000 units for the AF100/EF product.

We have an active beta program for the AF100 and the FS100 products, and have been floating hardware on some very large (and some not so large) productions. This has offerred us invaluable ergonomic information on the forth coming remotes, as well as access to footage and real world testing. In the coming weeks we expect to be able to talk about prductions using both the AF100 and FS100 focus systems.

We are excited for the future of Birger in the Broadcast industry. We are even more excited to get this product released in the short term. There is no one that wants these new products out in the field more than I do.


My interpretation is that we won't be seeing the FS100 version for over a month, even if everything goes well. Anyway, we obviously all want this to be right, so the fact that it gets a first run on the AF100 probably isn't a bad thing in the long run...

Rick Burnett
05-23-2011, 03:29 PM
Which crane do u have? (I'm crane shopping) ... Sorry for off topic in this thread

Sorry I missed this, Kessler.

echo9
07-17-2011, 01:30 PM
Bumping this older thread.

Any updates on potential release date for the Birger Canon mount??? Last I heard it was supposed to come out in July-ish time frame. With no release date in sight for the Red Epic-S (and a potential price increase) I'm on the cusp of getting a FS100, but since I have all Canon glass, I want to wait until there's a smart mount that will let me use them to their full extent. I checked the Birger website and it hasn't been updated at all. Any alternatives out there for using Canon glass (besides a dummy mount)?

jetswing
07-17-2011, 01:45 PM
Bumping this older thread.

Any updates on potential release date for the Birger Canon mount??? Last I heard it was supposed to come out in July-ish time frame. With no release date in sight for the Red Epic-S (and a potential price increase) I'm on the cusp of getting a FS100, but since I have all Canon glass, I want to wait until there's a smart mount that will let me use them to their full extent. I checked the Birger website and it hasn't been updated at all. Any alternatives out there for using Canon glass (besides a dummy mount)?
I wouldn't wait on Birger if I were you. Unfortunately, we still only have "dumb" adapters as our only option.

legrevedotcom
07-17-2011, 09:29 PM
I got impatient and ordered the Kipon with apeture ring... any better alternatives than that?

profnoxin
07-17-2011, 10:24 PM
Set your iris between 2.8-5.6 and roll around with a Fader ND on? That's my stop gap for EOS glass... Let me say that the Fotodiox "dumb" mount is of reasonable build quality with a nice solid locking mechanism.

legrevedotcom
07-17-2011, 11:42 PM
Sounds good. I ordered the Ligth Craft workshop ND with 2-9 stops. I reckon it will do the job.

nyvz
07-18-2011, 12:24 AM
Sounds good. I ordered the Ligth Craft workshop ND with 2-9 stops. I reckon it will do the job.

That's the one I use, and it is very effective with minimal color shifting except with really heavy filtration. I do find it is soft toward the end of my 70-200mm though but I imagine that could be helped with a spacer for when i use it on longer lenses.

echo9
07-18-2011, 06:10 PM
Sent Birger an e-mail and got a reply back. No real information, they just said that the release date would be announced two weeks prior via the e-mail distribution list. Not very helpful. :huh:

jetswing
07-18-2011, 07:26 PM
Sent Birger an e-mail and got a reply back. No real information, they just said that the release date would be announced two weeks prior via the e-mail distribution list. Not very helpful. :huh:
Did you ask about AF100 or FS100? I'm wondering because FS adapter was to come after AF's.

echo9
07-18-2011, 07:51 PM
Did you ask about AF100 or FS100? I'm wondering because FS adapter was to come after AF's.

I just asked about the FS100 mount.

jetswing
07-18-2011, 08:10 PM
Oh ok. Seeing they're struggling to get the AF100 version out, I doubt we'll hear anything about NEX mount till they're done with the AF. I'm hoping some else will come up with an intermediate solution, sans the follow focus, sooner.

Jean-Philippe
01-18-2012, 12:16 PM
Thank you for finding us and watching us. Allow me to comment on a few things.
1, according to Birger's schedule, yes, Conurus will almost certainly ship later than Birger.


Seems that you have beaten Birger on the finish line after all...