24P/ Avid Express Pro/ without Mojo!!!

[newdvxowner]

I have read on this site that avid cannot not export 24p work with pulldown without mojo. Doesn't that mean if you plan on shooting 24p, and editing in avid, that you need the mojo/

Is it a problem if all your footage is in 24p?
Does final cut pro have more flexibility with this issue?

I don't want to limit the camera with my choice of editing software.

Michael P. seems like a genius, so what do you think Michael???

[MichaelP]

Xpress Pro does need the Mojo to playback native 24p back to NTSC with 2:3:2:3 pulldown. It is not needed to capture the material to create the native 24p on disc.

You can always create progressive DVD from the timeline by exporting as a QuickTime reference movie and encoding as MPEG2 for authoring. During the MPEG2 encoding, the 2:3 pulldown flags will be added to that when playing back on a NTSC device, it will become 29.97.

FCP can play back pulldown without hardware with varying degrees of sucess depending on speed of CPU and amount of effects in the timeline. Usually a render of all effects on a fast CPU will give you NORMAL pulldown back out over FireWire. Avid chose to keep everything as a real time process including the 2:3 insertion so a Mojo is required.

Michael

[newdvxowner]

Thanks Michael,

So why would anyone edit with avid express pro(if they couldn't afford the mojo?)

The mojo + software = $3,000.00
FCP4= $1,000.00

If I am going to be taking advantage of the dvx100a 24p cinema features, shouldn't I just go with Final Cut Pro?

The only thing that even had me interested in the Avid express pro is the multicam synch capability. I loved this potential for music viedo's, even without realtime multicam simultaneous playback(xpress pro doesn't offer this)

Thank you Michael!

[mvb]

DVFilm Maker ($95) will allow you to convert an
Avid 24P Quicktime into an Avid NTSC Quicktime
with 3:2 pulldown.

See http://dvfilm.com/maker

[MichaelP]

Marcus -

Does this work with the Avid QuickTime Reference DV codec? I remember trying it when you first came out with the solution and it didn't. Have yo umade changes since then?

Michael

[mvb]

Not sure what you mean by a reference DV codec. It works with the Avid DV codec, but probably not with a reference movie unless the reference is a single video track.

[newdvxowner]

Now I'm really confused!!!!

It sounds like avid express pro is a serious inconvenience without Mojo.
Does FCP4 work better with the 24P features of the DVX?

The Multicam synch option is the only thing that ahs me hanging on to my avid express pro dreams....

[skettalee]

So you guys are saying I cant go out with the DVX and shoot some footage. Come back home and import it into Avid Xpress Pro just like I do any other camera. Edit my footage and export an Avid Quicktime file. Convert the file using Canopus Procoder and use Adobe Encore DVD or Nero to burn my dvd. Pop it into the DVD player at home and watch my 24P footage?

Please someone step by step me through this process that I am wrong on!

[Party_Pooper]

you can do that. avid xpress pro just can't add the pulldown out the firewire without the mojo. both FCP and Vegas can though.

newdvxuser, remember you still can edit a 29.97 timeline with any NLE if you shoot 24p on the DVX

[editpredator]

Party Pooper...if you wanted to shoot 24p and edit it in Xpress Pro. Would you just start a 23.97 project in AVID, digitize at dv25, edit, and output to whatever you wanted? Is the only advantage (in this scenario) of the mojo to allow 1:1 uncompressed? Because I'd be as happy for now with the dv25 (5:1) compression if I can just as easily digitize, edit, and output!!! Also where do you set the drop vs. non-drop frame settings? In Xpress Pro or on the DVX? Thanks...I know it's a lot but I'm a bit frustrated with the amount of $$$ investment with little return...

[Party_Pooper]

If you really just want to use Avid Xpress without a mojo, just edit a 29.97 timeline so it'll output out the firewire.

[grinner]

I use Svideo in with a meridien system.
All of my projects are 29.97.
I just love the way the 24p stuff looks. I don't even control the DVX as a deck. I just turn off the vtr control and use the remote.
Works great for my needs.

[editpredator]

Thanks guys...I digitized my 24p footage into a 29.97 project and everything went in perfect. I cut a small piece together and then exported it to a quicktime and then AVI file. The quicktime looked really weird (these strange digital lines with movement) but the AVI looked awesome!!! I tried doing a digital cut to go back out to my deck and had trouble with the settings though. Probably a limitation of my knowledge in the setup rather then a non-working feature.

[24p16x9]

i am currently working on a short film for school, and like i've heard, avid wont export 24p without a mojo. i read on here that you can capture it as a 29.97, but would'nt that basically be like shooting in 30p anyway? if im wrong correct me, I'm just trying to figure out a way to capture in 24 and be able to spit to tape or to dvd, and we tried capturing at 23. i forgot what it was, but in quicktime it looked really bad. any help?

[krestofre]

Tell me a little more about the footage itself. DVX? 24pA or 24pN? Also, what version of Avid are you working with?

[24p16x9]

mini dv, shot with an xl2, so whatever 24p is on the xl2. does the xl2 shoot in both, i dont know what the difference is between them. we are using the new avid xpress hd adrenaline. When i export it to quicktime it gets really jumpy like frames are missing.

[krestofre]

Yes, the XL2 has both.

What type of project are you using currently?

[24p16x9]

well I already knew from previous experience that avid cannot export 24p timelines so currently it is in a 30p timeline, but it seems redudent to shoot in 24 but capture it as 30. i have captured it in a 23.976 timeline but havent successfully exported to quicktime.

[krestofre]

30p? Do you mean 30i?

If you shoot 24pN and capture it in a 30i timeline you'll get the advantage of a 24p cadence to your footage. Meaning it will look more "film-like" than shooting 30i video and importing that into a 30i project.

You can shoot 24pN or 24pA and capture to a 23.976 project and pay attention to the type of pulldown that's going to be removed during the capture process. 24pN requires Normal pulldown removal (or 2:3:2:3) while 24pA requires Advanced pulldown removal (or 2:3:3:2).

You should be able to get a good quicktime out of a 23.976 project assuming that the correct pulldown was removed to convert the footage on the tape to 23.976 fps.

Does that answer your question?

[Steve_Bec]

This is an intersting topic. I recently shot 720PN 23.976 on my HVX. My final output needs to be 30i timeline so I can color correct and mix other 24 p dv stuff. What would be the best workflow for that? Any help would be a HUGE help.

Thanks:

SteveBec

[24p16x9]

well there is 30p and 30i, i believe the XL2 shoots 30 progressive but I could be wrong.

[krestofre]

I know both exist. I'm asking about your selected project type in Avid. Is it 30p or 30i? It's hard for me to answer the underlaying question without knowing your setup.

[24p16x9]

oh i see. I'm not entirely sure, I think it just says NTSC30, and then their is 29.97 and so on. I almost certain that its a 30i timeline.

[krestofre]

29.97 = 30i. So did you choose 29.97 or NTSC 30?

[24p16x9]

it says 30iNTSC. But I ended up capturing everything in a 23.976 timeline which exported to quicktime fine, but I doubt it will spit to tape.

[krestofre]

If your project says 30i, then your use a 30i timeline. The only way you could use a 23.976 timeline is if you're in a 23.976 project. 23.976 projects CAN do a digital cut to tape, and you can even choose your cadence on newer versions.

Somehow I feel like I'm missing something and not really answering your question.

[MichaelP]

There is no 30p in Avid products for SD project types. If you have it captured in a 23.976 project, then any of the lates releases for Mac or Windows will allow you go back to tape with a 2:3 cadence over FireWire.

Michael

[24p16x9]

Yeah kinda. I should clarify, I meant a 23.976 or 30i project, not timeline. But the point I was trying to make is that if you shoot video in 24p, then capturing it into a 30i project is pointless. Doesn't it basically turn your footage into 30 frames, or as close as it can. Because if you shoot in one frame rate, then capture it as a different frame rate, you might as well just shoot in the frame rate that you are capturing. This is what I was asking, 1. how to shoot 24p and export it. and 2. if you shoot in one frame rate then capture as another, wouldnt that be the same as shooting in the frame rate you are capturing? Thats what I'm trying to figure out.

[anchoryanker]

Yeah kinda. I should clarify, I meant a 23.976 or 30i project, not timeline. But the point I was trying to make is that if you shoot video in 24p, then capturing it into a 30i project is pointless. Doesn't it basically turn your footage into 30 frames, or as close as it can. Because if you shoot in one frame rate, then capture it as a different frame rate, you might as well just shoot in the frame rate that you are capturing. This is what I was asking, 1. how to shoot 24p and export it. and 2. if you shoot in one frame rate then capture as another, wouldnt that be the same as shooting in the frame rate you are capturing? Thats what I'm trying to figure out.

that's the same question I have. I have an upcoming project I want to shoot in 24p, and I have access to Avid xpress pro without a mojo and I want to know if it is feasible to do so.

[MichaelP]

All shipping versions of Xpress Pro Mac and PC support 23.976 capture and output directly over FireWire with no need for a Mojo. On input it removes either ADVANCED or NORMAL pulldown and can output NORMAL back on output or anytime during play.

Michael

[Red Malone]

Michael, here's my situation. I'm shooting with my DVX 100B. I have corporate projects that I'll be shooting in 60i. I have independent projects that I'll shoot in 24pA and 24pN. I'm still trying to determine what NLE I'm going to purchase for my home. At my 9-5 I'm a producer. I shoot on Beta SP and hand it over to an editor. Occasioinally edit on Avid (older Media Composer v. 11. something I think).

Anyway, I'm famililar with the Avid architecture enough to want to purchase it form my home system. Unfortunately, I don't work on the latest Avid software so I need some help from you.

Ultimately, I want to:

shoot: on the DVX setting of my choice
edit on : Avid Express Pro HD or Canopus Edius 4 or Final Cut Pro?
take care of my logos, etc, in Adobe Photoshop, import them into my NLE
take the project into Adobe Encore v.2
author my DVD
burn my DVD
sit back and be proud of my accomplishment

Can Avid Express Pro HD input / output 60i, 30p, 24pN, 24pA with no problem?

Someone, anyone, please help. I need to purchase an NLE within the next 2 weeks.

[MichaelP]

You can use 30i for all 60 field and 30p shot material. You can create 23.976 projects for all ADVANCED or NORMAL with Avid Xpress Pro.

Michael

[Red Malone]

Thanks for the help. It's a large purchase I'm jumping into.

Right now it's between Avid and Edius 4. I've got a decent network of pros that operate one or the other. Therr are plenty of people that swear by FCP but I don't know them well enought ot call them at 1am and ask for tech advice (which I know I'll need).

Any words of advice from any one out there would be greatly appreciated.