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henryolonga
03-23-2011, 04:25 AM
Just thought I would gather a few links concerning the camera for those wanting a quick search :grin:


http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/content/id/1237480587665/section/home?parentFlexibleHub=1159199101117


http://www.fstopacademy.com/2011/03/22/vertigo-first-music-video-to-be-shot-on-new-sony-nex-fs100/

http://vimeo.com/21366307

http://vimeo.com/21372344

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S7AYpqZi2g

http://www.hdwarrior.co.uk/2011/03/23/the-new-sony-nex-fs100-super-35mm-camcorder-first-look/

brunerww
03-23-2011, 04:32 AM
Thanks for starting this thread, Henry.

A couple of more interesting links:

Hands-on from Videomaker (US): http://www.videomaker.com/community/videonews/2011/03/10178-hands-on-with-sonys-nxcam-super-35mm-camcorder/

Blog posting from crews.tv (NZ): http://crews.tv/blog/2011/03/22/sony-fs-100-enters/

And here's my blog post (not trolling, I promise): New Sony NEX-FS100 -- Panasonic AF100 Killer? (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com/2011/03/new-sony-nex-fs100-panasonic-af100.html)

henryolonga
03-23-2011, 07:36 AM
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-broadcastcameras/cat-nxcam/product-NEXFS100U/

brunerww
03-23-2011, 08:40 AM
Review from Nigel Cooper of DV user (UK): http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=268

Oscar Studio
03-23-2011, 10:58 AM
Sony NXCAM Super 35mm Test

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVwwbctwhd0

zeke
03-23-2011, 11:15 AM
Nigel obiously doesn't like the camera. But he failed to mention all the connection points you can use to attach customn kit to it. I'm disappointed the HDMI out is only 8bit. I don't find the lack of a built in ND filter a big as problem as he does.
Looks like a NanoFlash is something many will want to use with this.

MadMonkFish
03-23-2011, 03:16 PM
... and the killer for PAL users is we don't get 24P.

60/30/24P for NTSC and 50/25P for PAL.

I'm interested, but Sony's choice to do this (rather than have region/mode selection etc) is, frankly, very odd & maybe a factor in user's purchasing choices.

Do like the images on the sample promo though... would love to see some PL glass on it.

henryolonga
03-24-2011, 03:45 AM
http://www.xdcam-user.com/2011/03/sony-fs100-super-35mm-nxcam-camcorder-announced/

brunerww
03-24-2011, 05:49 AM
A couple of more demo videos/lens tests - from a YouTube user named yehead114, not from Sony, but they appear to be legit.

I suggest you watch in 1080p, if you can:

Kanon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr4QMpUjLeM) (irony not intended, I'm sure)

NEX-FS100 lenses (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JAHY0w58cg)

vanvideo
03-24-2011, 09:20 AM
Hands-on review from Videomaker:

http://www.videomaker.com/article/15052/

I like their Youtube video. Nice, simple shots.

Mike Harvey
03-24-2011, 10:38 AM
A couple of more demo videos/lens tests - from a YouTube user named yehead114, not from Sony, but they appear to be legit.

These actually are from sony... you can see the same videos on their product page.

Brian_Rice
03-24-2011, 03:10 PM
Shocked that this came isn't getting more attention on DVXUSER. "Other cameras" (??) This is obviously going to be the best prosumer HD cam on the market. Can't wait to grab one.

pulpfiction007
03-24-2011, 03:13 PM
Shocked that this came isn't getting more attention on DVXUSER. "Other cameras" (??) This is obviously going to be the best prosumer HD cam on the market. Can't wait to grab one.

There's actually 3 or 4 different threads going on right now....one is in the news section, another is in the F3 section - It's getting a lot of attention!

The "Baby F3" or NX Cam 35 are other names for the FS100

vanvideo
03-24-2011, 06:48 PM
Yes, Mods, can this camera get its own section? It is proving to be quite a popular topic.

Sam Scoggins
03-24-2011, 08:21 PM
http://broadcastengineering.com/news/sony-expands-nxcam-product-family-20110324/#

Got to say I love this picture:

31941

vanvideo
03-24-2011, 08:34 PM
I like these angles:

31946

31947

Sam Scoggins
03-25-2011, 07:57 AM
http://www.dvuser.co.uk/images/img/reviews/camcorders/sony-fs100/fs100-preliminary-brochure.pdf

Brian_Rice
03-25-2011, 08:17 AM
Yay! Got it's own thread.

I'm sooooooooooooooooo excited about this cam. Even non-filmmakers I've shown clips to are blown away by how far the digital revolution has come. :)

olgak
03-25-2011, 09:52 AM
http://vimeo.com/21461116

lexicon
03-25-2011, 01:41 PM
http://vimeo.com/21461116

IMHO better than AF100 but not quite the sharpness and absence of noise that you see on the F3 (both watched on vimeo). It seems that having the same sensor matters, but it is not enough. Everything else equal, the nature of the electronic internal processing on the camera also plays an important role in the final image.

BobbyMurcerFan
03-25-2011, 01:57 PM
http://vimeo.com/21461116

Nice. This will get interesting.

alaskacameradude
03-25-2011, 09:16 PM
IMHO better than AF100 but not quite the sharpness and absence of noise that you see on the F3 (both watched on vimeo). It seems that having the same sensor matters, but it is not enough. Everything else equal, the nature of the electronic internal processing on the camera also plays an important role in the final image.

I wonder how good it would look if you bypassed that 'electronic internal processing'
on the camera and used the HDMI out to an external recorder.....would it then
look a lot closer to the F3 footage? Who knows, we shall see before too long
I bet. I was pretty impressed with the shots off the above vimeo link, as he
was using the slow included zoom lens with it, and it looked pretty freaking good
to my eye for a 'kit' lens that is rated so slow. Not bad at all.

maranfilms
03-25-2011, 10:12 PM
IMHO better than AF100 but not quite the sharpness and absence of noise that you see on the F3 (both watched on vimeo). It seems that having the same sensor matters, but it is not enough. Everything else equal, the nature of the electronic internal processing on the camera also plays an important role in the final image.

I agree, But to honest, it's really to early to tell. Though from what I have seen it looks fantastic. I always loved the Panisonic look, but for some reason im turned off by the af1oo, I do admit that now people are dialing it in, there's some beautiful footage out there. It just seems really inconsistant from user to user, unlike, say the hvx, as where it has it's own unique characteristics that always looked pretty good, and is quite easy to identify.

But this camera has me on the edge of my seat. Im anxious to see more footage from a real production line model. I want to hold it and see if the buttons are as bad as the reviewers felt they were, Or should I say "reviewer". Either way it's raising the bar, and creating a competative market for large sensor camcorders, which makes us all winners as Charlie sheen would say.

Sam Scoggins
03-27-2011, 11:56 AM
Andy Shipsides review and hands on with the camera is very useful:
http://blog.abelcine.com/2011/03/25/sony%E2%80%99s-new-nxcam-super-35-fs100/#

metalalien
03-27-2011, 12:17 PM
The whole video I was thinking, don't touch the sensor!

vanvideo
03-27-2011, 03:08 PM
Andy Shipsides review and hands on with the camera is very useful:
http://blog.abelcine.com/2011/03/25/sony%E2%80%99s-new-nxcam-super-35-fs100/#

It looked pretty robust to me, the way he was flipping it around. The handles sure looked secure. It actually looked a lot bigger than I thought it would, or the reviewer is a small guy.

cckid
03-27-2011, 04:17 PM
Hi,

yeah dont touch the sensor...I thought the same...this camera loooks so sweet...and has everything that we would expect from sony...a clean signal...nice sensor...good ergonomics...I like the dedicated buttong for variable speeds...and of course it doesnt have a couple of features such as hdsdi, ndfilters and true 10bit output which is also very typical of sony...well cant wait to get my hands on this puppy

henryolonga
03-30-2011, 08:21 AM
http://www.studiodaily.com/main/technology/newgear/13027.html


This link suggests 10 bit hdmi. Cannot vouch for its accuracy but here ya go. If its 10 bit - I may be in. Puts it closer to the F3 if true

Some across the Interwebs have wondered why there's no SDI out in this camera. If you've got 10-bit HDMI out with SMPTE and audio timecode, you may not really need SDI, as others have suggested, saving you even more money.

Ralph B
03-30-2011, 11:36 AM
http://www.studiodaily.com/main/technology/newgear/13027.html


This link suggests 10 bit hdmi. Cannot vouch for its accuracy but here ya go. If its 10 bit - I may be in. Puts it closer to the F3 if true

Some across the Interwebs have wondered why there's no SDI out in this camera. If you've got 10-bit HDMI out with SMPTE and audio timecode, you may not really need SDI, as others have suggested, saving you even more money.


For what it's worth, yesterday I attended a Sony NAB preview at VTP in Los Angeles. Hugo Gaggioni, Chief Technology Officer for Sony Electronics was the speaker, and he mentioned in passing that the FS100's HDMI output was 10 bit. Hugo impressed me with being on top of a vast array of products and technology, so I would give his statement some credibility.

He also showed us some screen captures and a zone plate from Sony's new 4K camera. This may very well be the best digital motion picture camera made to date.

Rick Burnett
03-30-2011, 02:00 PM
Haha, and so the question contimues. :) Maybe Sony doesn't want to answer yet to keep the viral aspect of this question going. :)

henryolonga
03-30-2011, 06:02 PM
Cooooooooooool. this is mega

lexicon
03-30-2011, 06:24 PM
For what it's worth, yesterday I attended a Sony NAB preview at VTP in Los Angeles. Hugo Gaggioni, Chief Technology Officer for Sony Electronics was the speaker, and he mentioned in passing that the FS100's HDMI output was 10 bit. Hugo impressed me with being on top of a vast array of products and technology, so I would give his statement some credibility.

He also showed us some screen captures and a zone plate from Sony's new 4K camera. This may very well be the best digital motion picture camera made to date.

Yes, Hugo Gaggioni is a good source, and he is great explaining the science behind cameras, like a classic good professor of engineer.

10 bit would be great, but I don't think it will change the 'character' of the image and put it on a different level. Based on just the few FS 100 sample videos that I have seem (on vimeo), I still perceive a clear difference between the image that comes out from the F3 and the one from the FS 100. It seems that same sensor, same output (422 10-bit) is not all: internal processing and components matter. But we have to see more footage and tests to come to any definite conclusion.

David G. Smith
03-30-2011, 07:22 PM
Haha, and so the question contimues. :) Maybe Sony doesn't want to answer yet to keep the viral aspect of this question going. :)

Well, NAB is just days away, and the drop date of the camera is not that far off, so I doubt if Sony is engaging in inter-webs shenanigans, like other companies have been known to do, in regards to the HDMI output sample size. We will know soon enough.

Hidef1080
03-31-2011, 07:03 AM
A couple of more demo videos/lens tests - from a YouTube user named yehead114, not from Sony, but they appear to be legit.

I suggest you watch in 1080p, if you can:

Kanon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr4QMpUjLeM) (irony not intended, I'm sure)

NEX-FS100 lenses (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JAHY0w58cg)



The part that stands out to me is the ballerina.
It looks the best and it is what I likei n HD [sharp, clean, resolution].
To me it shows what this camera is really capable of with the right lens.
$4000 lens in this case...

Now I wonder if that was shot to SD card in AVCHD or if they used an external recorder.
It really looks nice.

Rick Burnett
03-31-2011, 11:13 AM
So there is another thread where one of our users shot with the FS100, a 25p model, and the aliasing is horrible. Yet, I haven't seen this aliasing in other clips even with similar lines in them. If ANYONE gets a chance to play with one, maybe they can find out why the quality of results is so different?!? EVERYTHING looked awesome on the images EXCEPT the aliasing. And it was bad actually. And it makes no sense to what Nigel Cooper said about the camera. You can download the original footage.

vanvideo
03-31-2011, 11:39 AM
Bad aliasing in one camera test just isn't conclusive enough for me. Several other videos showed no such problems. They're all online, check them out. Like you said, Nigel nitpicked the camera to death, yet praised the image. I would think he would have noticed the aliasing. In fact, it was the exact opposite - he said it had a better image (in his opinion) than the AF100.

We don't know enough from the other test to make a final conclusion. The tester himself said he wasn't certain of the camera's settings, as he had no manual.

Take a breather guys, relax. We'll all know soon enough.

Rick Burnett
03-31-2011, 11:50 AM
I agree, given pre-production, I find it VERY hard to believe that would be the aliasing results of a shipping product for $6k (or whatever it is). I just mention it in hopes that Sony does pay attention like Panasonic to what people might have concerns with. That way, it can be looked at before it gets shipped :)

henryolonga
03-31-2011, 01:33 PM
Yah - I am perplexed at the aliasing in that shoot and the fact few others have mentioned or noticed it on other shots......will wait and see. If it crops up on other shoots then it is a concern.

Kholi
03-31-2011, 04:41 PM
There is no aliasing issue. I had the cam for a full day and shot every bad situation a no budget shooter would be in.

Whatever the guy posted is not what I got out of the fs100. Dunno if there was something up with his prerelease model but that footage is not representative.

henryolonga
03-31-2011, 04:55 PM
Thanks Kholi. Have you used the F3 before? If so - what would you say the difference in the 'feel' of the imagery is like between the two cams? Do they look similiar in most departments? At this point I sense they look a little different but we have been looking at edited and recompressed files so I may be off base.

Thanks again for your input and look forward to some striking footage when it is released

Kholi
03-31-2011, 05:27 PM
Will be able to comment soon. Can't really right now.

Footage will be avail soon as well.

metalalien
03-31-2011, 05:55 PM
Bad aliasing in one camera test just isn't conclusive enough for me. Several other videos showed no such problems. They're all online, check them out. Like you said, Nigel nitpicked the camera to death, yet praised the image. I would think he would have noticed the aliasing. In fact, it was the exact opposite - he said it had a better image (in his opinion) than the AF100.

We don't know enough from the other test to make a final conclusion. The tester himself said he wasn't certain of the camera's settings, as he had no manual.

Take a breather guys, relax. We'll all know soon enough.

I keep seeing really high gain settings being displayed 27db, 30db and so on. Way beyond the F3's 18db maximum. I look forward to someone doing a test next to an F3 using all the various gains settings. Maybe the FS100 will at the very least have higher gain. Might not be unusable for every day shooting but I could find a use for 30db if it really acts like 30db! Maybe some near pitch black videography. It appears in the video that the iris closed down when it went from 15db to 30db, the scene was actually a hair darker.

corycross
03-31-2011, 09:26 PM
ok.. Judging from cameras I have worked with in the past ( dvx100,hvx200, zony s7u, canon 7d )

I can honestly say that I thought I was a panasonic guy.. they were awesome cameras but I sold it to get a z7u... And after switching to the z7u, I have no desire to go to a panasonic ever again. The image that comes out of the sony z7u is amazing. By tweaking a little bit here and there in the image, I was able to get something I wanted and more..

I then got the 7d for back up stuff.. This camera was set up to film dull stuff, and then in editing make the colors pop... It was also a hassle. short battery life, xlr adapter crap.. Great image, but jees!


So now this baby comes out, as I was looking towards just buying the 7d with a few lenses and a 60d... but now I think I am going to just get a rebel that does 1080P and the sony FS100!


This camera looks amazing and from past experience with sonys z7u, I know the image that comes out of this will be better in so many ways from contrast, dynamic range, lighting, color, and more... Ok, everyone knows Sony will include little cheap parts.. but oh well, they are something atleast! This camera is just what I am looking for.. I film commercial work, mostly events and weddings, also short films and music videos.. I film anything I feel like and get called to do. For weddings, I couldnt have asked for a better camera, this thing shoots to card and hard drive!! AMAZING...

I think the only thing I could say that I am a little upset about, is that there is no internal ND filters.. it would make it so much easier to have these.

As soon as I see there is a adapter for canon lenses, its on like donkey kong.

Everybody else is nit picking at this wonderful tool, which judging from the z7, f3 and ex cameras.. this camera will rock, just like them... I saw someone mad about not having an external mic and only 1 card slot... uh.. sorry to break it to you, but most of sonys pro cameras dont, they need a shot gun.. which is better anyways... and the camera comes with one!! Geezzz...and as for the 1 card slot, that would make it close to perfect too but with internal hard drive and dslr only shooting to 1 cf card.... c;mon folks


ok all in all.. I am in love with this camera and look forward to getting it on a rig, with canon lenses and follow focus/ lcd screen.... the battery length, modular design, slow motion capabilities in 1080P, higher bit rate is a plus, shallow depth of field great in low light, recording to both card and ... this camera is near perfect..




BTW, some test footage online doesnt to the cmaera justice.. with a nice lens, uv filter outside you can get some AWESOME footage..


Done rambling.. either way, I love film makers and film making!

vanvideo
03-31-2011, 10:12 PM
Clever video here, but no actual video from the camera:

http://vimeo.com/groups/fs100/videos/21711135

nyvz
03-31-2011, 10:52 PM
I got to play around with the fs100 at the NYC Sony event today and it really was impressive how clean the camera is even at 30db gain. Clearly its a jump in usable sensitivity of at least 1-2 stops compared to even 5dmk2, not actually that surprising considering the size of the photosites. This is the camera to beat for lowlight work.

Surprising the fs100 has 1080@60p recording and 30db when the f3 doesn't.

Apparently it also can do 422 or 444(RGB) over HDMI. I also recorded a few clips to a GH2 sdhc card I had on me. Funny the fs100 and gh2 use the same folder structure and didn't have to format between cameras.

Btw the kit lens is servo focus only, pretty useless for MF (which is all I use) but AF was slowish but seemed accurate and did not hunt, but I never use AF so maybe that's a normal speed. It was the bad kind of servo MF where if you turn it slow enough focus doesn't change and if you go a little fast suddenly you are macro or past infinity.

tengo
03-31-2011, 11:40 PM
Just a simple test:

http://vimeo.com/21739488

evilthought
04-01-2011, 12:06 AM
As soon as I see there is a adapter for canon lenses, its on like donkey kong.


Since it's Nex E-mount, there are already dozens of canon adapters on ebay

yoclay
04-01-2011, 12:11 AM
Doesn't anyone here think there should be a seperate FS100 thread?

avro
04-01-2011, 12:23 AM
yes-once fs100 goes for sale

nyvz
04-01-2011, 12:38 AM
Since it's Nex E-mount, there are already dozens of canon adapters on ebay

Also Sony said they have the birger ef mount working with emount and will be showing it at nab. I hope it has the wireless focus option too.

speedracerlo
04-01-2011, 01:50 AM
I got to play around with the fs100 at the NYC Sony event today and it really was impressive how clean the camera is even at 30db gain. Clearly its a jump in usable sensitivity of at least 1-2 stops compared to even 5dmk2, not actually that surprising considering the size of the photosites. This is the camera to beat for lowlight work.

Surprising the fs100 has 1080@60p recording and 30db when the f3 doesn't.

Apparently it also can do 422 or 444(RGB) over HDMI. I also recorded a few clips to a GH2 sdhc card I had on me. Funny the fs100 and gh2 use the same folder structure and didn't have to format between cameras.

Btw the kit lens is servo focus only, pretty useless for MF (which is all I use) but AF was slowish but seemed accurate and did not hunt, but I never use AF so maybe that's a normal speed. It was the bad kind of servo MF where if you turn it slow enough focus doesn't change and if you go a little fast suddenly you are macro or past infinity.

great info thanks

corycross
04-01-2011, 05:02 AM
I'm not too familiar with adapters for other lens... Will there be any cropping or zooming or even worse vignette when using these adapters with different lenses? I need to have very wide shots and I need to have lens start wide and can zoom in as well.

Does anyone have any experience with this mount on another NEX adapter? I want to be using canon lens on this.. The sony lens look quite horrific in my assumption... silver lenses just dont look like the real deal to me..

_JD_
04-01-2011, 07:15 AM
The sony lens look quite horrific in my assumption... silver lenses just dont look like the real deal to me..
Just get the F3 kit primes...

henryolonga
04-01-2011, 08:22 AM
http://vimeo.com/21783226

Not bad

Lee Saxon
04-01-2011, 08:25 AM
Will there be any cropping or zooming or even worse vignette when using these adapters with different lenses

Nope, you'll be fine

corycross
04-01-2011, 08:31 AM
thanks for everyone who answered my questions! Then.. I would love to have prime lenses, but I am ok with doing the canon lenses.. I plan to have this and a canon that does video too.. so canon lenses would be great

Kholi
04-01-2011, 11:51 AM
http://vimeo.com/21783226

Not bad

This is pretty much indicative of what I got. The alisaing in that other clip is all wrong. This one shows the amount of aliasing you should expect... none.

Isaac_Brody
04-01-2011, 11:56 AM
Strange, everything I've seen looks great except footage from Tengo. Just wondering if the post workflow might have been the culprit? Perhaps CS4 is not handling AVC footage properly. I remember having big issues with Premiere CS4 and my GH1. Just thinking out loud here, not really certain either way...

I don't see the same kind of aliasing in the latest footage Henry posted and the Cozi video. Looks pretty alias free and solid.

Barry_Green
04-01-2011, 12:00 PM
Premiere CS4 has a problem with 4:2:0 progressive chroma. That was fixed in CS5 version, oh, I think it was 5.0.3. I don't know if that could be causing the issue reported here, but it's worth noting.

Steve Connor
04-01-2011, 12:02 PM
That footage does look very clean, getting close to selling my EX1R!

Hidef1080
04-01-2011, 12:53 PM
http://vimeo.com/21783226

Not bad

I really like the color.
I still want to see more but this was [correct me if I'm wrong] all done with the "kit lens" and shot to card in AVCHD.

Hidef1080
04-01-2011, 12:54 PM
That footage does look very clean, getting close to selling my EX1R!

It's funny you should say that!!!

brunerww
04-01-2011, 01:15 PM
Another FS-100 hands-on post - with downloadable clips : http://www.mynahmedia.com/2011/04/an-hour-with-the-sony-nex-fs100u/#more-227

Everts
04-01-2011, 01:34 PM
Another FS-100 hands-on post - with downloadable clips : http://www.mynahmedia.com/2011/04/an-hour-with-the-sony-nex-fs100u/#more-227



Thanks for the link if I had to choose between the af100 and the FS100 based on these clips Id get the AF 100.

corycross
04-01-2011, 01:52 PM
Can someone post some shots that are straight off the camera but have a shallow depth of field.. All of these shots are focused to infinity it appears. MTS files work fine in my cs5.. At first I thought it said MT2 like the z7u shoots... This camera looks awesome

Steve Connor
04-01-2011, 04:17 PM
But why would you make a decision based on clips from someone who had used the camera for an hour? I'm not making my decision until I've seen what it does when it's released and spends some real time in the hands of professionals.

I would never have considered an AF100 based on the pre-production clips, now it's actually out there you can get a much better feel of what it can do.

pulpfiction007
04-01-2011, 04:30 PM
But why would you make a decision based on clips from someone who had used the camera for an hour? I'm not making my decision until I've seen what it does when it's released and spends some real time in the hands of professionals.

I would never have considered an AF100 based on the pre-production clips, now it's actually out there you can get a much better feel of what it can do.

I definitely agree on making sure the footage is truly representative of what the camera can do. That being said I thought the Den Lennie video for Cozi was quite good, and showed off the camera's low light ability and super clean image. There were a couple of shots I didn't like but it was more of a stylistic thing. (Super shallow CU with odd blown out lighting)

Kholi
04-01-2011, 04:46 PM
Den Lennies footage is marginally close to what you can expect when recording to the onboard format.

brunerww
04-01-2011, 07:48 PM
FS100 low light test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWNE-yICeZQ) on YouTube from Derek Yeo the "Video Cobra" -- a videographer from Singapore (http://exposureroom.com/members/VideoCobra/) who seems to have gotten his hands on one of the test units.

He also did a semi-humorous interview with himself discussing the camera. Vimeo version here (http://vimeo.com/21711135), YouTube version here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GMr3kPa9HU).

speedracerlo
04-01-2011, 08:02 PM
I am so in love with this camera
can't wait to get this

pulpfiction007
04-01-2011, 08:12 PM
What's so amazing about that low light test is the 3.5 lens....can you imagine a 1.8. At least the noise/low light performance is matching the F3 pretty well.

metalalien
04-01-2011, 09:01 PM
What's so amazing about that low light test is the 3.5 lens....can you imagine a 1.8. At least the noise/low light performance is matching the F3 pretty well.
Someone needs to do a direct comparison with the F3 to see if that 30db gain is legit or a marketing ploy.

tengo
04-01-2011, 09:35 PM
Windows Media Player 12 in Windows 7 can playback AVCHD (.MTS) natively. I tested the problematic shots there and the aliasing is the same. So it may not be a CS4 issue.

It could well be the camera settings. As I said, I was too rushed to check through properly and my first glance at the Cinematone 1 picture profile is that it looked like defaults but I am not sure. The aliasing was also not showing up in the LCD display when I was shooting, so I didn't check. It was only discovered during post.

I would check again with Avid Media Composer 5 when I get back to office after the weekend. I have FCP at home but unfortunately it's a PowerPC that can't import AVCHD.

In the meantime, you guys can download the scooter scene MTS file from this link (http://www.tengo.com.sg/FS100/00005.MTS). I will remove it after a few days.

Kholi
04-01-2011, 10:54 PM
What's so amazing about that low light test is the 3.5 lens....can you imagine a 1.8. At least the noise/low light performance is matching the F3 pretty well.


I've got a lot of footage at ranges of dB at night, right on up to the highest setting while riding in a car... with iPanchros and a Tokina 11-16/2.8 PL mount...

Believe you me, the new SUB 20K lowlight king is here. I just took the GH-2 out at even at 3200 ISO on the same Tokina it's almost depressing...

vanvideo
04-01-2011, 11:08 PM
Windows Media Player 12 in Windows 7 can playback AVCHD (.MTS) natively. I tested the problematic shots there and the aliasing is the same. So it may not be a CS4 issue.

It could well be the camera settings. As I said, I was too rushed to check through properly and my first glance at the Cinematone 1 picture profile is that it looked like defaults but I am not sure. The aliasing was also not showing up in the LCD display when I was shooting, so I didn't check. It was only discovered during post.
.

I never see the moire or aliasing when I shoot with my VG10. It's always a rude interruption later during editing.

nyvz
04-02-2011, 12:48 AM
Someone needs to do a direct comparison with the F3 to see if that 30db gain is legit or a marketing ploy.

What do you mean? I mean the Sony event I was at two days ago had an NXCAM35 and F3 next to each other... NXCAM35 went up to 30db in 3db increments, F3 is known to be limited to 18db right now from what I understand. I shot some footage with the NXCAM35 at 30db at f2.8 and my gh2 at f.95 and comparatively it seemed that the NXCAM was much cleaner than the gh2 even with the 3 stop faster lens on the GH2. This is a bit anecdotal though since I only watched the footage briefly on my computer and havent gone back to it, but I must say it made me feel a little sorry for my brand new GH2...

squig
04-02-2011, 01:44 AM
I've got a lot of footage at ranges of dB at night, right on up to the highest setting while riding in a car... with iPanchros and a Tokina 11-16/2.8 PL mount...

Believe you me, the new SUB 20K lowlight king is here. I just took the GH-2 out at even at 3200 ISO on the same Tokina it's almost depressing...

I was planning on spending 20k on LED lighting for the film, maybe now I won't have to.

I might be heading to LA soon on a fundraising mission. I hope you like Australian beer!

diegocervo
04-02-2011, 01:51 AM
Windows Media Player 12 in Windows 7 can playback AVCHD (.MTS) natively. I tested the problematic shots there and the aliasing is the same. So it may not be a CS4 issue.

It could well be the camera settings. As I said, I was too rushed to check through properly and my first glance at the Cinematone 1 picture profile is that it looked like defaults but I am not sure. The aliasing was also not showing up in the LCD display when I was shooting, so I didn't check. It was only discovered during post.

I would check again with Avid Media Composer 5 when I get back to office after the weekend. I have FCP at home but unfortunately it's a PowerPC that can't import AVCHD.

In the meantime, you guys can download the scooter scene MTS file from this link (http://www.tengo.com.sg/FS100/00005.MTS). I will remove it after a few days.

Thanks for sharing the MTS files.
I downloaded the files I found here http://www.mynahmedia.com/2011/04/an-hour-with-the-sony-nex-fs100u/#more-227 and converted them to prores using 5DtoRGB and they look pretty good. I don't see aliasing but I can't judge on moire on the foliage.
Best,
Diego

moldcad
04-02-2011, 02:01 AM
Windows Media Player 12 in Windows 7 can playback AVCHD (.MTS) natively. I tested the problematic shots there and the aliasing is the same. So it may not be a CS4 issue.

It could well be the camera settings. As I said, I was too rushed to check through properly and my first glance at the Cinematone 1 picture profile is that it looked like defaults but I am not sure. The aliasing was also not showing up in the LCD display when I was shooting, so I didn't check. It was only discovered during post.

I would check again with Avid Media Composer 5 when I get back to office after the weekend. I have FCP at home but unfortunately it's a PowerPC that can't import AVCHD.

In the meantime, you guys can download the scooter scene MTS file from this link (http://www.tengo.com.sg/FS100/00005.MTS). I will remove it after a few days.

Interestingly, this clip does indeed show bad aliasing when played back in WMP, but none whatsoever when played back full screen from Vegas Pro 10 timeline...

SLoNiCK
04-02-2011, 02:49 AM
Eah. Messed in WMP, but really smooth and zero aliased in Edius. Here's 1:1 crops from screengrabs.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/630vm4

David G. Smith
04-02-2011, 03:20 AM
Thanks for sharing the MTS files.
I downloaded the files I found here http://www.mynahmedia.com/2011/04/an-hour-with-the-sony-nex-fs100u/#more-227 and converted them to prores using 5DtoRGB and they look pretty good. I don't see aliasing but I can't judge on moire on the foliage.
Best,
Diego

I played those clips in the VLC player and did not see any moire or aliasing. What I saw was outstanding DR, nice color and sharpness, and what I have been looking...for for 20 years... a Super 16mm killer...and for about $6 Grand. If the production model reviews and footage continue to be as positive and good looking, then I have found my NEXT camera. Now, I am not saying that it will be my LAST camera, for sure, but give me a break! WOW!

diegocervo
04-02-2011, 03:27 AM
right.
There is definitely something wrong with aliasing when playing back the avchd file in AE or PP. When converting in prores everything is just fine.

brunerww
04-02-2011, 04:50 AM
...I just took the GH-2 out at even at 3200 ISO on the same Tokina it's almost depressing...


...I must say it made me feel a little sorry for my brand new GH2...

I find myself thinking that there are going to be a lot of used GH2s and AF100s on the market this summer (perhaps including mine ;-))

Doctor Wu
04-02-2011, 05:19 AM
I love the imagery from this camera, but I'm still going to buy an AF100 this summer even if this FS100 is available (probably late summer, or Fall). I really do like the quality that this FS100 puts out, don't get me wrong.
But I feel like I would be buying additional items to accommodate what it's missing. And at that point, I would rather spend the additional $6K or so to get the PMW-F3.
Most people won't be able to pony up the extra $$ for an F3, which is why this camera is so appealing.
I was just playing around with the histogram on my GH2 tonight and realized how much I would miss a waveform monitor if I had to shoot something real with the GH2.
Same goes with the FS100. Yes, you can buy a monitor with a waveform built in and tack it on to your rig, but isn't it really really nice just to have it on the flip out LCD? And isn't it really convenient to have ND filters built in to supplement the ones you put in your matte box?
I'm not being ANTI-FS100 or anything, I'm just thinking that ahead about my own purchase of the AF100 and probably will skip the FS100 for the F3 next year (or just rent the F3). It's all personal choices, I think the AF100 is still a viable alternate, especially for me.

brunerww
04-02-2011, 08:12 AM
Yes, you can buy a monitor with a waveform built in and tack it on to your rig, but isn't it really really nice just to have it on the flip out LCD? And isn't it really convenient to have ND filters built in to supplement the ones you put in your matte box?
I'm not being ANTI-FS100 or anything, I'm just thinking that ahead about my own purchase of the AF100 and probably will skip the FS100 for the F3 next year (or just rent the F3). It's all personal choices, I think the AF100 is still a viable alternate, especially for me.

Thanks for your perspective Doc. All very good points. As a GH2 owner myself, I am certainly not anti-AF100 - but, if what we're seeing and hearing about the low-light sensitivity of the FS100 is true, the money I'll save on lighting for the kind of work that I do makes the FS100 a better upgrade purchase path for me. In the meantime, I'll rent the terrific AF100 when I need its capabilities (especially since I already have m4/3 glass)!

corycross
04-02-2011, 08:31 AM
sony just a suggection!! Next camera, make it just a box and totally modular... no lcd screen, but!!! Put in ND filters.. c'mon, thats kinda a dissapointment in my view because even your z7 has it and many other cameras... I guess they were thinking dslr here? I dont know... im totally nit picking, I am so ready for this camera

HHL
04-02-2011, 08:32 AM
I played those clips in the VLC player and did not see any moire or aliasing. What I saw was outstanding DR, nice color and sharpness, and what I have been looking...for for 20 years... a Super 16mm killer...and for about $6 Grand. If the production model reviews and footage continue to be as positive and good looking, then I have found my NEXT camera. Now, I am not saying that it will be my LAST camera, for sure, but give me a break! WOW!

+1

Oscar Studio
04-02-2011, 12:09 PM
new review
http://vimeo.com/21838779

nyvz
04-02-2011, 01:52 PM
I love the imagery from this camera, but I'm still going to buy an AF100 this summer even if this FS100 is available (probably late summer, or Fall). I really do like the quality that this FS100 puts out, don't get me wrong.
But I feel like I would be buying additional items to accommodate what it's missing. And at that point, I would rather spend the additional $6K or so to get the PMW-F3.
Most people won't be able to pony up the extra $$ for an F3, which is why this camera is so appealing.
I was just playing around with the histogram on my GH2 tonight and realized how much I would miss a waveform monitor if I had to shoot something real with the GH2.
Same goes with the FS100. Yes, you can buy a monitor with a waveform built in and tack it on to your rig, but isn't it really really nice just to have it on the flip out LCD? And isn't it really convenient to have ND filters built in to supplement the ones you put in your matte box?
I'm not being ANTI-FS100 or anything, I'm just thinking that ahead about my own purchase of the AF100 and probably will skip the FS100 for the F3 next year (or just rent the F3). It's all personal choices, I think the AF100 is still a viable alternate, especially for me.

It is nice to have a wfm right there, but I'd rather have expanded focus. I'd say the af100s lack of expanded focus warrants an external LCD more than the fs100s lack of wfm. you can adjust gamma/color of an image exposed to zebras in post but you cannot fix focus in post so easily.

jamesjjs
04-03-2011, 03:36 AM
http://firewerkzfilms.com/2011/04/02/sony-nex-fs-100-review/

Another review - done by Sean Seah in Singapore. Good to watch if you want to have a sense of the size and ergonomics of the camera. Nice touch to see the different mike positions.And at the very last bit of the video, there's a list of pros and cons - I did not know this camera has stabilization built into the body....

EDIT - most likely a mistake, checked some sites and seems the kit lens has OSS (I think Sony calls it Steady Shot)

maranfilms
04-03-2011, 04:26 AM
Im sure Sony didn't forget to add Nd filters, There's a damn good reason for it. I have a feeling it was a choice to leave them out, so they would be able to get that HUGE sensor in there, and keep the form factor small. Lets be real, who shoots without a matte box? 99 % of the riggs I see people using have at least two filter stages, and some three. This was one of the two reasons matteboxes were created in the first place. Many seem to use them more to look cool than the intended use. For me, the ND issue is a non issue. Your going to have better control with a good set of ND's than the two or three stages most cameras come with. At least this way you can mix and match different varients without needing to tweak the iris or shutter speed to much. In the end, yes it will take more time than switching a knob on the front of the camera, but im willing to bet the glass on a nice ND filter's is of better quality than what their using in these cams. Thus making a better image. How much? not much im sure. But something is better than nothing, other wise pixel peeping would be a moot point.

maranfilms
04-03-2011, 04:35 AM
http://firewerkzfilms.com/2011/04/02/sony-nex-fs-100-review/

Another review - done by Sean Seah in Singapore. Good to watch if you want to have a sense of the size and ergonomics of the camera. Nice touch to see the different mike positions.And at the very last bit of the video, there's a list of pros and cons - I did not know this camera has stabilization built into the body....

EDIT - most likely a mistake, checked some sites and seems the kit lens has OSS (I think Sony calls it Steady Shot)


He showed some features, I have not yet seen. This is the cam for me. As soon as im able to preorder, im on it.

tengo
04-03-2011, 09:20 PM
Bad news. I tested on Avid Media Composer 5 at office, imported in both DNxHD 185 X (10 bit) and DNxHD 185 (8 bit) and also watched on Sony broadcast monitor.

The aliasing is similar to Premiere Pro CS4 and Windows Media Player.

Maybe more people can try download the footage (http://www.tengo.com.sg/FS100/00005.MTS)in question and test it in your own NLE. What we are particularly concerned with is the aliasing at the chrome strips of the scooter (bottom left) and also the office building in the background.

So we have 4 possible scenarios:

A) I shot in the wrong camera settings (although I believe it was default)
B) NLE handling of AVCHD issue
C) I shot handheld (hence more obvious aliasing) VS other footages of other people were shot on tripod (hence less aliasing)
D) Other cameras would have produced similar aliasing under those difficult circumstances

On the other hand, I am no Barry Green or Philip Bloom, so perhaps people can just wait for those reviews before making a conclusion.

dustylense
04-03-2011, 10:35 PM
Downloaded, converted to prores... Clean as a whistle. So you're doing something wrong on your end. I don't see ANY aliasing.

BobbyMurcerFan
04-04-2011, 12:57 AM
Dusty,

Can you post a screen print of the scooter's floor board? Thanks much.


tengo,

The footage is 25P, right? I've looked at in TMPGEnc, Avid and Vegas. It aliases for me as well in all three aps.

tengo
04-04-2011, 01:04 AM
Yes, 1080p25.

dustylense
04-04-2011, 01:08 AM
tengo,

The footage is 25P, right?
Yep. But I just don't see the aliasing Tengo had. It is part that the chrome is flanked by mid tones and reading about 108 IRE or so.

BobbyMurcerFan
04-04-2011, 02:18 AM
dusty,

I don't doubt you. What version of ProRes did you compress to?

BobbyMurcerFan
04-04-2011, 02:23 AM
tengo,


I tried transcoding to Avid 1:1x and bring that into Avid, and there is only very slight aliasing. I'm not sure what's going on here. By comparison, DNxHD 185 shows much more aliasing.

Kholi
04-04-2011, 02:25 AM
Glad to know it's on the NLE's end. I'm in Premiere CS5 and not seeing any issues with my footage that I didn't notice in FCP as well.

BobbyMurcerFan
04-04-2011, 02:30 AM
Kholi,

Are you playing the mts file natively in CS5? And what codec did you trancode to to play it in FCP? Thanks.

Kholi
04-04-2011, 02:36 AM
Kholi,

Are you playing the mts file natively in CS5? And what codec did you trancode to to play it in FCP? Thanks.

Native in CS5 (5.0.3) with an Alienware M11X Netbook, Windows 7.

AVC HD Converted to ProRes in FCP through Log And Transfer, and Pro Res files that originated from Atomos Ninja in FCP.

However, with FCP, had an issue with seeing the 1080/60 stuff so just used my Netbook instead.

AVC HD is a bare to work with, but transcoding it takes even longer.

tengo
04-04-2011, 03:00 AM
Good idea. I just transcoded to both 1:1 (8 bit) and 1:1 (10 bit). I have a Nitris DX here. But... same aliasing... no different.

Bobby, Kholi and Dusty > I just PM you another scene for your testing. I don't want to post it public as it is a difficult situation which any camera may just alias as well. May not be fair to FS100.

henryolonga
04-04-2011, 03:07 AM
Kholi - is your netbook LCD full HD?

Kholi
04-04-2011, 03:31 AM
Kholi - is your netbook LCD full HD?

Nah, sadly it is not. Haha. Can't wait til 11" Displays become 1080 or better! But, for now it's 1280 x 720 accurate.

It has an HDMI port that spits out plenty, so I connect it to one of my LCD's for second screen or the 46" Samsung TV.

Works like a charm.

BobbyMurcerFan
04-04-2011, 04:25 AM
Good idea. I just transcoded to both 1:1 (8 bit) and 1:1 (10 bit). I have a Nitris DX here. But... same aliasing... no different.

Bobby, Kholi and Dusty > I just PM you another scene for your testing. I don't want to post it public as it is a difficult situation which any camera may just alias as well. May not be fair to FS100.

tengo,

I think I may have found out what's going on here.

In Avid, make sure the display quality is "green." Open the Effects Toolset and blowup the image to 4X (by pressing Ctrl+Click three times). Move the image (by pressing Ctrl+Alt) so you see the foot board of the scooter. You shouldn't see any aliasing. Cycling through the different display quality settings, e.g. yellow, to half-green, to green will causing aliasing to appear. So this is a function of the display settings, not of the actual footage or codec used, AFAICT.

HTH.

maarek
04-04-2011, 04:58 AM
That "aliasing" may appear because the program thinks that the image is interlaced and then proceeds to deinterlace it. Doesn't happen on my system. Looks clean.

tengo
04-04-2011, 05:26 AM
Yes. Display quality was set to "Green (10 bit)". I am using Nitris DX.

Anyhow, I am going to let the matter rest. I guess since quite a few testers have said there is no aliasing on their NLE, then it's most probably due to the NLE.

When the actual camera is out, people can test again.

Cheers

BobbyMurcerFan
04-04-2011, 05:49 AM
maarek,

This could certainly be the case in some instances. But in mine, it seems caused by a combination of the NLE's display resolution setting and the image size. At certain combinations of settings, a moire pattern is created. But increasing the image resolution and size shows that the aliasing is a result of monitor moire and is not part of the recorded image.

I've tested this with the file that tengo has PM'd me. It shows essentially no aliasing. It aliases badly when I first open it. But once I adjust the display settings, it goes away. There is still some shimmering on the blinds, but that seems to be a result of subtle compression artifacting.

So, FWIW, I don't see any aliasing issues.

BobbyMurcerFan
04-04-2011, 05:55 AM
Yes. Display quality was set to "Green (10 bit)". I am using Nitris DX.

Anyhow, I am going to let the matter rest. I guess since quite a few testers have said there is no aliasing on their NLE, then it's most probably due to the NLE.

When the actual camera is out, people can test again.

Cheers

tengo,

Just to clarify. It's not an Avid issue per se. For example, I can create horrible aliasing in Vegas or none at all.

It's an issue w/ how the video is being scaled to the monitor's resolution. Using green mode in Avid isn't enough. You also have to increase the image size to a point where the monitor moire goes away. The long and the short of it is that it's not a camera problem, nor is it a codec problem. It's just how the display size is being scaled.

tengo
04-04-2011, 09:03 AM
Mystery solved and yet the answer is so simple.

Merry-Go-Round 1: Premiere Pro CS4 misinterpreted the footages as Upper Field First. I went back to my Premiere Pro CS4 project and explicitly check the field order. We do this in Premiere Pro CS4 by right clicking on the clip and choosing "Interpret Footage". And to my horror, it detected the clip's field order as "Upper Field First". My project and sequence settings were all along 1080p25. There was a thread on this issue but not an excuse for my carelessness: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?238025-AVCHD-Premiere-pro-Native/page2

Merry-Go-Round 2: Windows Media Player is also not interpreting the field order correctly.

Merry-Go-Round 3: Avid imported correctly at progressive. But the record window is showing moire/aliasing unless we scale up correctly. Exporting and watching in full screen confirms this. No aliasing.

After I change to progressive, there is now minimal aliasing, if any.

I apologize unreservedly to all for any trouble caused and I guess the only thing I could do is to re-encode the video with the correct field order asap in order to give back justice to the camera.

UPDATE: Video has already been re-encoded. You can download the full HD WMV from vimeo (http://vimeo.com/21739488).

Isaac_Brody
04-04-2011, 10:18 AM
Great to hear that it was a post issue as we thought and not indicative of the actual footage. Have you replaced the footage in your original link? I would either upload a corrected version or take down the original link from Vimeo so people don't get the wrong idea.

I just looked at the MTS file you posted in VLC. Compared to what you uploaded I don't see any aliasing issues. That is a huge relief.

vanvideo
04-04-2011, 12:13 PM
Tengo, sorry you had to go through all that, but it's a good lesson to be learned by any future FS100 users. So, your predicament wasn't all in vain.

Rick Burnett
04-04-2011, 03:20 PM
I downloaded the MTS file and agree, the aliasing looks as expected to me, VERY minimal. Compared to how that clip looked before, wow, talk about crazy. Thanks Tengo for working with people to get to the bottom of that, as everyone was REALLY surprised to see that.

TheDingo
04-04-2011, 04:47 PM
Can you post a screen print of the scooter's floor board?

I downloaded the original MTS file and exported the same scooter frame. ( see link below ) There is virtually no aliasing in the image and the sharpness has increased significantly from the problem image I posted previously, which is likely due to working from original footage instead of the WMV transcode.

Overall the footage looks great!

FS-100 Screen Grab from Original MTS File : Double-click to Open Full Size (https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Byy1CMO9ZfmrMDQ3ZTkyYmUtZjczOS00YWU5LWE3M DYtMTI0ZmY2ZTEzZWY0&hl=en&authkey=CIeixf8C)

BobbyMurcerFan
04-04-2011, 05:05 PM
Thanks Dingo,

The thumbnail image shows exactly the type of aliasing I was seeing. It was due to the combination of monitor resolution, image resolution and image size. When I download the image to full resolution full size, the aliasing disappears. I could get the footage to alias badly or not at all in Avid, Vegas and TMPGEnc's playback windows simply by changing the display setting properties and image size.

It's pretty interesting.


BTW, tengo, I know that in my case it wasn't a field order issue in Avid b/c I'm using an older version that doesn't allow you to mix in interlaced material into a progressive project... so I couldn't specify a field order if I wanted to. But glad we got it all sorted out :).

HHL
04-04-2011, 06:59 PM
whew!

tengo
04-04-2011, 08:15 PM
Video has already been re-encoded and uploaded to vimeo. So the original link is reflecting the latest and correct version.

http://vimeo.com/21739488

maarek
04-05-2011, 04:42 AM
This is one of the problems when AVCHD has progressive material inside a file that has an interlaced flag. Eventhough the footage is great, a lot of edit suite programs misinterpret the field settings. Final Cut Pro has been traditionally a pain in this area as a lot of progressive DV and HDV material is still being deinterlaced by editors that don't realize what happens behind the screen. Also the viewer doesn't always help, for example FCP does deinterlacing in the viewer if it is not 100%.

moldcad
04-05-2011, 05:03 AM
A score for Vegas Pro - with all 25PsF material from my EX1, I've always been using Progressive project settings. This correctly displays PsF contents without attempting to de-interlace it...

zeke
04-05-2011, 09:13 AM
A score for Vegas Pro - with all 25PsF material from my EX1, I've always been using Progressive project settings. This correctly displays PsF contents without attempting to de-interlace it...
+1

imag
04-06-2011, 11:40 AM
New footage:

Low light performance is stunning, considering the slow lens:

http://vimeo.com/groups/fs100/videos/21969472

TheDingo
04-06-2011, 12:43 PM
Low light performance is stunning, considering the slow lens: http://vimeo.com/groups/fs100/videos/21969472

Surprising how natural the +30 dB footage looks.

The only minor issue I have with the footage is that there appears to be no true black, only dark greys, which I've seen with other low-light FS100 footage. ( this is easy to fix in post )

brunerww
04-06-2011, 01:29 PM
New footage:

Low light performance is stunning, considering the slow lens:

http://vimeo.com/groups/fs100/videos/21969472

YouTube version of the same test posted last Friday


FS100 low light test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWNE-yICeZQ) on YouTube from Derek Yeo the "Video Cobra" -- a videographer from Singapore (http://exposureroom.com/members/VideoCobra/) who seems to have gotten his hands on one of the test units...

imag
04-06-2011, 02:14 PM
YouTube version of the same test posted last Friday
Sorry about that.

zeke
04-06-2011, 02:51 PM
I would love to see someone take the Alpha to E mount and put on some T2 or faster primes, just to see what would happen.

Noel Evans
04-06-2011, 03:15 PM
Surprising how natural the +30 dB footage looks.

The only minor issue I have with the footage is that there appears to be no true black, only dark greys, which I've seen with other low-light FS100 footage. ( this is easy to fix in post )

Theres some exterior ambience getting in the shot causing that. I think the FS100 would show true black if this was a locked off location.

cgold
04-06-2011, 03:37 PM
I would love to see someone take the Alpha to E mount and put on some T2 or faster primes, just to see what would happen.

I say someone get one of those M mount adapters and mount the f/.95 Leica Noctilux on there, and then light a scene with a few wristwatches.

Jarrett P. Morgan
04-06-2011, 03:43 PM
I say someone get one of those M mount adapters and mount the f/.95 Leica Noctilux on there, and then light a scene with a few wristwatches.

That would be awesome. best combo ever!!

or even a FD 50 .75!!

Rick Burnett
04-06-2011, 03:45 PM
You'd probably be able to see into the past with it :)

vanvideo
04-06-2011, 03:55 PM
You'd probably be able to see into the past with it :)

The FS100 comes with a flux capacitor.

cgold
04-06-2011, 04:02 PM
We could recreate the famous double slit expermit in our own homes. Cheapest quantum physics lab ever.

bgundu
04-11-2011, 02:23 PM
I apologize if this has already been confirmed, what's the verdict on the HDMI being 10bit?

henryolonga
04-11-2011, 06:55 PM
8 bit

pulpfiction007
04-11-2011, 06:57 PM
8 bit

Double confirmation 8 bit

bgundu
04-11-2011, 06:58 PM
Who's gonna triple dog dare me! Ha ha.

Thanks for the info guys!

Vinnie
04-14-2011, 06:20 AM
Well now I'm just confused:

http://vimeo.com/22275448

Says 10bit AND -> 4:4:4

Lee Saxon
04-14-2011, 07:35 AM
In the same breath he says it has 4:4:4 and then positions it as an alternative to DSLRs. I find these statements contradictory. 10-bit 4:4:4 would allow them to position it wayyyyyy above "DSLR alternative" both in marketing and in price.

I'm extremely skeptical.

henryolonga
04-14-2011, 04:51 PM
Well now I'm just confused:

http://vimeo.com/22275448

Says 10bit AND -> 4:4:4

Where does he say 10 bit?

maranfilms
04-14-2011, 05:14 PM
This footage is nice, it's so crisp I feel like it needs some grain added. I want to see what it looks like with a promist black 1/2 on the front of it. Or some post grain added. Is it just me, or do any of you guys feel this looks a lot like Nikon's color palette, Which awesome. I cant wait to buy this damn thing.

pulpfiction007
04-14-2011, 09:00 PM
Well now I'm just confused:

http://vimeo.com/22275448

Says 10bit AND -> 4:4:4

Bill Drummond- Product Manager at Sony says the FS100 is outputting 4:2:2 8 bit (during an interview with HD Warrior.)

Lee Saxon
04-14-2011, 09:15 PM
Is it just me, or do any of you guys feel this looks a lot like Nikon's color palette, Which awesome.

'Cause Nikon uses Sony sensors.

brunerww
04-15-2011, 03:03 PM
Next Wave DV interviews Sony Product Manager Juan Martinez at NAB: http://www.nextwavedv.com/nab-2011-sony-nex-fs100-super-35mm-sensor-video-camera/

Juan talks to ProVideoCoalition: http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/awilt/video/nab_2011_video_-_sunday_night_at_sony/

reem12
04-15-2011, 03:44 PM
This looks like a must have. Saving my coins now.

HHL
04-15-2011, 05:02 PM
http://vimeo.com/groups/fs100/videos/21739488

HOLY BUCKETS.....there are some low-light shots in there that are CLEARLY on another PLANET. WOWSER!! This is looking like a pretty special camera. Congrats Sony!

kurth
04-16-2011, 01:03 PM
ah jeez...I want this camera - and with fcp x , I havenīt felt the itch like this since the vx1000 fcp 1 days !

brunerww
04-16-2011, 08:38 PM
Juan discusses all three new NXCAM cameras at NAB: http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/video/collections-nab2011/video-nab2011_booth_nxcam_cameras/

henryolonga
04-17-2011, 06:28 PM
http://www.vimeo.com/22465945

Sam Scoggins
04-17-2011, 08:09 PM
http://www.vimeo.com/22465945

"Because the camera does not have any built-in ND filters of it's own, I used a $150 Genus Variable ND Polarizer filter to control the amount of light entering the lens. ALL shots, except for the indoor fruit basket were shot with the ND filter on the lens. I found that this filter actually allowed me much finer control over my exposure than of the camera had only a couple of built-in filters. What at first seemed like a big shortcoming of the camera, was quickly forgotten. I can use cheap step-down rings to use the same ND Polarizer on all of my lenses regardless of their native filter size."

Hidef1080
04-17-2011, 10:01 PM
http://www.vimeo.com/22465945

After all is said and done it always comes down to the images.
Very nice stuff indeed.

frantick
04-18-2011, 06:56 AM
I think it looks great too, but it looks like it was shot at 29.97 instead of 23.96. (Excluding the slo-mo) Anyone know?

-cp

Hidef1080
04-18-2011, 07:58 AM
I think it looks great too, but it looks like it was shot at 29.97 instead of 23.96. (Excluding the slo-mo) Anyone know?

-cp

If I had to guess I would say yes it's 30fps.
I remember Vortex was big on 30fps over 24 with the EX-1 training video.

maranfilms
04-18-2011, 08:05 AM
'Cause Nikon uses Sony sensors.

AHHH, I didn't know that, makes sense though. thanks for the heads up.

Isaac_Brody
04-18-2011, 08:58 AM
http://www.vimeo.com/22465945

Looks fantastic. Sony really nailed it with this camera. Actually tempted to pick one of these up.

Rick Burnett
04-18-2011, 09:02 AM
Looks fantastic. Sony really nailed it with this camera. Actually tempted to pick one of these up.

Agreed.

Berk
04-18-2011, 11:30 AM
Clearly they say hdmi out is 4:4:4
http://www.cinema5d.com/news/?p=5965

how would the pic be different from 4:2:2?
color rendition would be better for sure but
would banding be still there?

Rick Burnett
04-18-2011, 12:09 PM
"Because the camera does not have any built-in ND filters of it's own, I used a $150 Genus Variable ND Polarizer filter to control the amount of light entering the lens. ALL shots, except for the indoor fruit basket were shot with the ND filter on the lens. I found that this filter actually allowed me much finer control over my exposure than of the camera had only a couple of built-in filters. What at first seemed like a big shortcoming of the camera, was quickly forgotten. I can use cheap step-down rings to use the same ND Polarizer on all of my lenses regardless of their native filter size."

Has anyone seen a new variableND shoot out? I know there has been a lot more since I bought my FaderND last year, they even have a newer version. I wondered if any of the newer ones are doing better on the various issues the original ones had. Given many FS100 users might be looking at getting one.

zeke
04-18-2011, 04:59 PM
My new question is will we have access to the 3D LUT for post grading? Or is it just in camera? (I'm pretty sure this is different than setting up standard presets.)

Lee Saxon
04-18-2011, 07:56 PM
My new question is will we have access to the 3D LUT for post grading? Or is it just in camera? (I'm pretty sure this is different than setting up standard presets.)

Nope. That's called RAW. For that you gotta talk to Red. Or buy a $600 stills camera -.- (it's possible the motion market is a few years behind on the digital revolution)

HHL
04-18-2011, 11:24 PM
http://www.vimeo.com/22465945 (http://www.vimeo.com/22465945)

WOW!! (Barring any surprises)...looks like there is a new indie "King of the Hill". DANG!! That's some nice range....the sharpness is impressive...and it still has an organic feel. Looks like it's F3 heritage is apparent. Way to go Sony!

henryolonga
04-19-2011, 07:54 AM
Nope. That's called RAW. For that you gotta talk to Red. Or buy a $600 stills camera -.- (it's possible the motion market is a few years behind on the digital revolution)

Actually you can use luts with normal video :). One way I go - You have to convert your video to the Cineform intermediate codec and use their colour grading tool called first light. It allows 3Dluts - I use speedgrade too create them. Shoot as flat as your camera settings will allow and too the highest quality codec you can ( I capture HDMI to either Cineform or Nanoflash ). You will be able to have very deep control of your colour. Obviously the better the acquisition the further you can push stuff but luts are possible in post..........

Tommy K
04-19-2011, 08:33 AM
WOW!! (Barring any surprises)...looks like there is a new indie "King of the Hill". DANG!! That's some nice range....the sharpness is impressive...and it still has an organic feel. Looks like it's F3 heritage is apparent. Way to go Sony!


I looked at this footage on a good CRT monitor and it looks simply gorgeous. Yes very organic and filmic. It is so clean it is ridiculous, even with low light blacks. If you added some grain to this footage, untrained viewers would never know it wasn't film. It is also apparent what a good ND filter will do for you with this camera. We were playing devils advocate with our budget goals, and were looking at the AF100 as an alternative to Red or Alexa for our feature. But since we have seen F3 and now FS100 footage... the AF100 option is off the table. We can have two FS100 sets ups and be really efficient with our scene coverage for the price of an F3 or a Red. Yea it won't be Red or Alexa.. but I'm not sure anyone would complain that it isn't. If this can really hold up on the big screen as we hope it will, this little gem will really be a milestone in Indie Film making.

HHL
04-19-2011, 09:35 AM
I looked at this footage on a good CRT monitor and it looks simply gorgeous. Yes very organic and filmic. It is so clean it is ridiculous, even with low light blacks. If you added some grain to this footage, untrained viewers would never know it wasn't film. It is also apparent what a good ND filter will do for you with this camera. We were playing devils advocate with our budget goals, and were looking at the AF100 as an alternative to Red or Alexa for our feature. But since we have seen F3 and now FS100 footage... the AF100 option is off the table. We can have two FS100 sets ups and be really efficient with our scene coverage for the price of an F3 or a Red. Yea it won't be Red or Alexa.. but I'm not sure anyone would complain that it isn't. If this can really hold up on the big screen as we hope it will, this little gem will really be a milestone in Indie Film making.

Yes.....from what I can see (so far), this thing is going to shake things up. I'm a bit sad for Panny because it's everything that I wish the AF100 were. I'm NOT saying that the AF100 isn't a wonder in it's own right, but it really doesn't have the IQ "WOW factor" that the F3/FS100 has. Noiseless, low-light, organic, dynamic range, min-aliasing, small form factor. In each of these categories the FS100 has the upper hand on the AF100. Again....I'm not saying that the AF100 doesn't have its place, its user base, its strong suits....but I'll suffer the pain of addressing the NDs in exchange for the rest or those advantages. Congrats to us all!!!

brunerww
04-20-2011, 03:10 AM
FreshDV floor interview with Den Lennie (http://www.freshdv.com/2011/04/nab11-fs100-with-den-lenny.html) at NAB, cradling a tricked-out FS100.

Interesting stuff, but an annoyingly large number of interruptions for sponsor plugs in an 8 and a half minute video :-(

Hidef1080
04-20-2011, 05:09 AM
It seems like maybe this is part of what RED had in mind for their Scarlet many, many, many years ago...


Glad the see the interviewer ask a few “real” questions about what he saw and how the camera compared to others.
I've seen the image stabilization “jump” on tripods before but I wouldn't mind hearing from the lucky few who've shot with it how it stacks up to other cameras out there – Like the EX-1 more so than the F3.


I guess that will all come in time however.

vanvideo
04-20-2011, 05:51 AM
The image stabilization should be turned off when you're tripod mounted, under most circumstances. It seems the demo model they're referring to had its OIS left on. I'm surprised the interviewer didn't catch that (or at least know enough to see if that was the issue).

brunerww
04-20-2011, 08:30 PM
Den Lennie gives a presentation on the FS100 (http://vimeo.com/22625109) at the Wedding & Event Videographers Association (WEVA) Open House at NAB

Danielvilliers
04-21-2011, 07:27 AM
It is a bit annoying the emphasis on size. So we could have have had ND filter and 10 bit sdi if the box was one inch longer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sincerely if this is true (and not Sony marketing afraid that the fs-100 would be too close to the F3) then it would be very stupid. Sacrifice image quality and practicality (nd filter for a 800 iso camera) just because of 1 or 2 inch.

maranfilms
04-21-2011, 07:46 AM
There's no way Sony is going to make the fs100 as close to the F3 as we would like. Even if it were say 3,000 more at 9k, it would still hurt the sales of the f3. Why would they give us the extra features when they can sell it for more than twice as much with the f3. I don't care what they say their marketing this as, It is the perfect dslr KILLER. And I know how annoying it is to state anything being a " KILLER" But it's the truth. This camera has everything, well.. almost everything we have wanted in a dslr, now it's here and people are still ragging on it about features. Come on, this camera is a game changer for the price point. Not to mention, it's going to make the others step up to the plate to compete. Sony has done what Red wanted to do, and im guessing they will provide us with a higher res and more frame rates within the next year or two.

brunerww
04-21-2011, 04:31 PM
I'm starting to feel like this guy's press agent :-) http://www.nextwavedv.com/nab-2011-interview-with-den-lennie-on-the-sony-fs100/

Steve Castle
04-21-2011, 09:26 PM
It is a bit annoying the emphasis on size. So we could have have had ND filter and 10 bit sdi if the box was one inch longer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sincerely if this is true (and not Sony marketing afraid that the fs-100 would be too close to the F3) then it would be very stupid. Sacrifice image quality and practicality (nd filter for a 800 iso camera) just because of 1 or 2 inch.

That unfortunately is not how it works, the flange focal distance length would not be an issue, and ND filter would require significantly more vertical height and width than what it would afforded by the current FS100 design. Consider that 3 ND filters would require 4 filter slots (one blank) which fully covers the sensor area that would need to be rotated around on a wheel in a central axis above the sensor. An S35 sensor size means that each filter is significantly larger than traditional 1/3" video cameras. Quite simply there are real physical limitations relative to the size of the camera body.

That fact that this camera is using a dSLR mount means that they expect you to use still lenses and its equivalent solution for ND filters. Which are abundant. There is also the possibility that an entrepreneurial individual could make a simple ND filter adapter for the FS100 (it would be a fairly easy undertaking). The real marketing mishaps I would say is the limitations to 25/50p on European models, which is a completely unnecessary limitation.

Having seen the S-log footage in the other thread, the F3 seems to have a significant advantage over the FS100. Its apparent that both cameras exist in completely different segments of the market.

Danielvilliers
04-21-2011, 11:03 PM
To anyone who thinks that a 10 bit output would be to close to the F3 has to see the s-log footage and you have to add the power zoom option, genlock, 3d, pal/ntsc, 444, slog etc... even the form factor for many would favor the F3.

Edit : I forgot the built in ND. I think that the difference in capabilities between the two is quite big. At first I was not too concerned about the ND, but I did not realise that it was a 800 iso camera. So you will need some damn powerful ND on that to simulate 48 fps shutter during daytime on that camera. It will not be the same that with the 100/200 iso of the Canons

Lee Saxon
04-22-2011, 04:07 AM
There is also the possibility that an entrepreneurial individual could make a simple ND filter adapter for the FS100 (it would be a fairly easy undertaking).

A slot for a small (52mm perhaps) drop in filter, like the one at the back of Nikon/Canon supertelephotos, does seem to be the easiest solution.

And, frustratingly, one Sony could have probably implemented themselves pretty easily.

kurth
04-23-2011, 07:27 AM
fortunately this is a digital camera ...not a film camera where alittle dirt didnīt cause havoc - if they did this , it would have to be an isolated filter chamber so dust wouldnīt reach the sensor and that would require something else in the optical path - I personally think a variable ND an easy solution where finer adjustment will be a necessity - I would have loved to have a couple of in-camera NDīs but, hey , if I can get the camera Iīll get over it

sean90291
04-25-2011, 08:11 AM
I haven't seen a highlight I like from the AF100 footage posted online. And I haven't seen a highlight I dislike from the Sony FS100 footage posted online. I was so close to getting the AF100 this week, in fact.

Can I use manual Nikon glass with the Sony cameras? I only ever hear about folks using Canon lenses on Sonys.

brunerww
04-25-2011, 09:54 AM
Can I use manual Nikon glass with the Sony cameras? I only ever hear about folks using Canon lenses on Sonys.


Sean - yes, there are several inexpensive Nikon to NEX adapters, from $26 for a Cowboy Studio adapter from Rainbow Imaging (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003X1FSCS/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=battleforthew-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399349&creativeASIN=B003X1FSCS) to a $53 adapter from Fotodiox (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003Y2YE3A/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=battleforthew-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399349&creativeASIN=B003Y2YE3A).

You will be able to adapt just about any lens to the FS100.

Cheers,

Bill

Lee Saxon
04-25-2011, 12:36 PM
Do not do not do not do not buy anything with the word Fotodiox on it. It is utterly worthless. There will be so much play in the mount that touching your follow focus will significantly reframe your shots.

I haven't used the other one but being even cheaper than the Fotodiox I'm pretty leery.

Novoflex, on the other hand, makes really good ones.

ICD Films
04-26-2011, 10:53 AM
Are people still buying Fotodiox? It's chinese adapters with re-printed label on them for x4 times the ebay price. Christ...

Sam Scoggins
04-26-2011, 08:32 PM
"actually the form factor interests me. I own both an AF101 and a Sony F3 and they have more traditional form factors but they suck to be honest. The only decent form factor is a shoulder mounted camera, everything else needs to be accessorised to make them work properly. The FS100 in many way is a little like a poor man’s Red Epic in it’s stylings. Very modular. You build it up the way you want it as there are lots of screw holes all over it."

http://philipbloom.net/2011/04/26/fs100/

Slow motion test: http://vimeo.com/22911903

echo9
04-26-2011, 09:14 PM
Interesting. Really looking forward to Bloom's comparison/review.

Keep in mind the slow motion clip he posted is not the normal 1080/60p but a "super slow motion" mode where he got approx. 150 fps out of it. Or something like that...

kprince
04-26-2011, 09:58 PM
This camera looks pretty damn good so far...

Hidef1080
04-27-2011, 05:02 AM
http://vimeo.com/22728996




I've seen some good stuff and some “average” stuff posted from this camera.

The HD version of the Cozi music video was great. [I can't get that song out of my head now!]
The Grand Central Station clip was good and I believe all done on the stock 18 – 200mm lens.
The Ballerina from the Sony clip was great.
The Vortex clip with the lighthouse, animals and boats was great. This clip looked more like video than any other clip I've seen so far but it was so clean and well done that it made think really hard about this camera and how versatile it could actually be.

I am really looking forward to what Mr. Bloom will do with it.


But still I'm not sure if this is the right camera for me at this price point. 6K is no small piece of scratch for this camera.

sean90291
04-27-2011, 05:38 AM
"actually the form factor interests me. I own both an AF101 and a Sony F3 and they have more traditional form factors but they suck to be honest. The only decent form factor is a shoulder mounted camera, everything else needs to be accessorised to make them work properly. The FS100 in many way is a little like a poor man’s Red Epic in it’s stylings. Very modular. You build it up the way you want it as there are lots of screw holes all over it."

http://philipbloom.net/2011/04/26/fs100/

Slow motion test: http://vimeo.com/22911903

Impressive. I believe this is the camera for me. The highlights in Philip Bloom's test footage are gorgeous. Sony should be buying this test footage from Philip immediately and using it to sell this camera. So should Bombay Gin (to sell their gin).

I have never been a big Sony fan. I guess cuz I "grew up" with Panasonic before going to Red. I've shot with the EX1 and been underwhelmed. And now that I'm Red-less, footage like this makes it plain to me--I'll buy the FS100 as soon as I can possibly get my hands on one.

KyleProhaska
04-27-2011, 04:32 PM
I guess I'm not seeing what you guys are seeing. Looks like a solid camera but I guess I don't understand why everyone is going so crazy over it. I was worried about my AF100's highlight handling at first until I realized it was basically my fault and the fault of my settings as well (picture styles). After that it's been a really solid performer.

Buy whatever camera you'd like, but I see lots of bickering happening in the future between people who have AF100's and people who have FS100 and each trying to fight about which one is "better."

I think they're both great cameras in their own right based on what we see so far and any problems I saw with the AF100 went away as soon as I got one and actually spent some time with it. Every new camera is shown to be a Holy Grail when it comes out, but after a while the hype dies down and everyone finds their little nitpicks with it. The FS100 won't be any different.

Happy shooting...

David G. Smith
04-27-2011, 05:01 PM
I guess I'm not seeing what you guys are seeing. Looks like a solid camera but I guess I don't understand why everyone is going so crazy over it. I was worried about my AF100's highlight handling at first until I realized it was basically my fault and the fault of my settings as well (picture styles). After that it's been a really solid performer.

Buy whatever camera you'd like, but I see lots of bickering happening in the future between people who have AF100's and people who have FS100 and each trying to fight about which one is "better."

I think they're both great cameras in their own right based on what we see so far and any problems I saw with the AF100 went away as soon as I got one and actually spent some time with it. Every new camera is shown to be a Holy Grail when it comes out, but after a while the hype dies down and everyone finds their little nitpicks with it. The FS100 won't be any different.

Happy shooting...

You are right. Folks need to buy what they think is best for them. Right now, for me, my camera buying decision comes down the AF100 and the FS100. I am going to go with the FS100. However, I would never slam anyone's choice for picking the AF100. My choice is really based on my fondness for Sony products and the sensor size. I have a set of vintage Nikkor lenses that I have been using on an ASP-C HD-DSLR and with the FS100 having just about that same sensor size, I am just more comfortable with the FS100's S35 sized sensor. To each their own.

John Caballero
04-27-2011, 05:02 PM
Buy whatever camera you'd like, but I see lots of bickering happening in the future between people who have AF100's and people who have FS100 and each trying to fight about which one is "better."

Huge waste of time. The only ones that have to be happy are your clients.

Rick Burnett
04-27-2011, 05:33 PM
Hehe, I always attribute it to people waiting around from the FS100 to come out, so they need something to do, post here! :) And you know what, I am totally guilty of that when I was waiting for my AF100.

I agree, both cameras have a lot of good features, and a lot of things that are less than preferable to *some* people. Until the FS100 is out in the wild, finalized and shooting, it's still a bit of a guessing game.

Of course, now I am on here talking because I have some AE rendering happening! :)

kurth
04-27-2011, 06:54 PM
my enthusiasm went into overdrive when I saw the 15db gain shot in the kuala lumpur footage - Iīve never seen lowlight footage so clean !

shrigg
04-27-2011, 11:06 PM
The FS100 looks amazing in Philip Bloom's low light comparison: http://vimeo.com/22977540
As I said in the vimeo comments (first post, lol), the +30dB astounds!

HHL
04-27-2011, 11:21 PM
the fs100 looks amazing in philip bloom's low light comparison: http://vimeo.com/22977540
as i said in the vimeo comments (first post, lol), the +30db astounds!

jaw dropping. Freaking unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!!!

John Caballero
04-27-2011, 11:37 PM
You now need just about 5 candles for your lighting kit! LOL!

KyleProhaska
04-28-2011, 12:08 AM
All I see these tests doing is providing lots of people who don't know what they're talking about more ammunition to make claims the AF100 "sucks in low light." Definitely great tests that show the potential, but next time some of you see yourselves using a few candles to light a whole scene you let me know. ;) I'm happy with my AF100 and don't find my inner core screaming because of this test.

It's amazing for the price-point and many will put the performance of the FS100 to use in really tough situations. Who knows maybe I'll pick one up? :P

David G. Smith
04-28-2011, 12:19 AM
All I see these tests doing is providing lots of people who don't know what they're talking about more ammunition to make claims the AF100 "sucks in low light." Definitely great tests that show the potential, but next time some of you see yourselves using a few candles to light a whole scene you let me know. ;) I'm happy with my AF100 and don't find my inner core screaming because of this test.

It's amazing for the price-point and many will put the performance of the FS100 to use in really tough situations. Who knows maybe I'll pick one up? :P

Uhhhhh... WHAT?!

Lee Saxon
04-28-2011, 07:08 AM
next time some of you see yourselves using a few candles to light a whole scene you let me know. ;)

Why not, now that it's possible?

I mean, not literally candles (that's probably more hassle than hauling around "real" lights), but a couple $5 CFLs in chinese lanterns? Poster board for flags? More money for production design (or catering, that's where I'd blow it)?

KyleProhaska
04-28-2011, 09:24 AM
I didn't mean in my post above that low-light performance wouldn't matter, but the AF100 is no slouch in low-light it's just not anywhere near as clean or as sensitive as the FS100. Even Bloom on his twitter said the AF100 has a better feature set. The FS100 seems like a decent feature set with a great chip, the AF100 has very solid feature set with a good chip. For me I want the feature set AND a great chip obviously, but at this price point I need to compromise and the AF100 is the best choice for me. The AF100 chip is by no means a compromise in general...it's a really sensitive chip, but when compared to something like the FS100 I guess you could call it that.

I feel like I'm just restating myself so I'll shut up LOL. Looking forward to Blooms tests, should be a fun read/watch.

kurth
04-28-2011, 10:30 AM
Kyle ...youīre starting to sound a little conflicted ! And most people here do know what theyīre talking about , and usually only get impressed when rightfully shown motives for being so. Donīt worry, Iīm certain Panasonic is working on a 3mp sensor also for the af200, or was that the group that got laid off yesterday ?

Rick Burnett
04-28-2011, 10:45 AM
I see it this way, there is not a clear *winner* if you will, at the $5k price point. Everything has plusses, everything has minuses. Everyone is passionate about their plusses ans minuses.

That said, on a recent movie shoot, I did in fact shoot a scene with the AF100 that used ONE small light source, a lighter. I was happy with it. It was supposed to be crazy dark with just a bit of features showing from the actors.

Hidef1080
04-28-2011, 11:08 AM
Mazda vs. Honda

East Coast vs West Coast


I think we all know that any camera can be bad when not setup for the task at hand or when pushed to do things it can't do but that does not mean it's a bad camera.

It the right hands all of the these cameras look very good. Professional good.

AF100*http://www.vimeo.com/20629699?ab




I came from a still photography background and my first video camera was a digital 8.

I think we sometime forget just how good we have it today.

Rick Burnett
04-28-2011, 12:09 PM
I think we sometime forget just how good we have it today.

I think that is worth repeating. I came into film production late, so there is a lot of pain or limitation I never went through, but it doesn't mean I am not aware of it! :)

Sam Scoggins
04-28-2011, 02:35 PM
Main thing this tells me, as a documentary maker, is that the FS100 can shoot in low light situations where other cameras at this price point can't function.

Sam Scoggins
04-28-2011, 08:48 PM
Mr Bloom's Low light test reshoot:
http://vimeo.com/23022451

David G. Smith
04-28-2011, 09:23 PM
Mr Bloom's Low light test reshoot:
http://vimeo.com/23022451


Wow. All of the cameras are amazing, really.

henryolonga
04-30-2011, 02:48 AM
http://vimeo.com/23057534

HHL
04-30-2011, 09:04 AM
7d vs T2i all over again. I own the T2i....I'm the future owner of the FS100 (unless some disaster takes place before launch). Wow....way to go Sony.

brunerww
05-01-2011, 12:49 AM
Hands on appraisal from Phil Baxter at Creative Video UK (http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/index.php?t=article/Sony+NEX-FS100). Interestingly, he says that the camera is:


scheduled to be available for sale slightly earlier than originally anticipated with deliveries starting at the end of May 2011

First time I've heard this, but iet's hope that it is true for the Americas and Asia as well as Europe!

Rick Burnett
05-01-2011, 02:28 PM
Wow, that test with the F3 looks great, the difference in the resolved detail was pretty straightforward to me. The 5D and AF100 footage looked what I would expect from either. In fact, I thought the AF100 footage was even cleaner than my settings. Very nice. The FS100 at 30dB gain, wow.

Pertaining to availability, I'm still trying to find out where a good place is to pre-order. I've also sent an email to Sony trying to find out, and to just start some dialog on availability. I'll let everyone know if I get more details.

brunerww
05-01-2011, 07:26 PM
Pertaining to availability, I'm still trying to find out where a good place is to pre-order. I've also sent an email to Sony trying to find out, and to just start some dialog on availability. I'll let everyone know if I get more details.

Here is what Andy Shipsides is saying on Twitter today:


Sony news today the FS100 will be available at the end of May for $4,999 w/o lens and $5,599 with lens. Look for it @abelcine

Hidef1080
05-02-2011, 05:09 AM
5k.... Ummm.

Methinks there may be a new Sony in my house.

Rick Burnett
05-02-2011, 08:58 AM
Thanks for the heads up!

moldcad
05-02-2011, 09:37 AM
Mr Bloom's Low light test reshoot:
http://vimeo.com/23022451

Watching them on my 50" plasma I must say that:

- the F3 is gorgeous
- the FS100 is not far behind
- the difference between the above 2 is much, much smaller than between the FS100 and the AF101
- the 5D is the worst, by far.

What I mean is that the noise (and I am a little paranoid about noise - those who followed my threads on the noise from EX1/nanoFlash know that) is very film-like on both the S35 cameras - almost no chroma noise, just some grain...While it's very videoish (still acceptable) from the AF101, it becomes unacceptable with the Canon (not only is the chroma noise visible, but it takes an ugly pattern of horizontal smears).

Rick Burnett
05-02-2011, 10:12 AM
I noticed that as well with the 5D footage, as I get with my 7D too. When I am doing compositing with 3D elements with 7D footage, I use the colored noise filter to get it to match (and it does pretty well). For the AF100, when I have noise in a shot, I use the monochrome noise to match because the noise, as you say, doesn't have that chroma component.

It is interesting how different the night/day tests are. In looking at the day tests, I thought the cameras performed pretty similarly and I'd have been happy with any of the 3. I didn't think the extra detail of the F3 really popped out during those tests, unlike the night test where the difference is pretty extreme to my eyes.

FelixGER
05-12-2011, 05:49 PM
Windows Media Player 12 in Windows 7 can playback AVCHD (.MTS) natively. I tested the problematic shots there and the aliasing is the same. So it may not be a CS4 issue.

It could well be the camera settings. As I said, I was too rushed to check through properly and my first glance at the Cinematone 1 picture profile is that it looked like defaults but I am not sure. The aliasing was also not showing up in the LCD display when I was shooting, so I didn't check. It was only discovered during post.

I would check again with Avid Media Composer 5 when I get back to office after the weekend. I have FCP at home but unfortunately it's a PowerPC that can't import AVCHD.

In the meantime, you guys can download the scooter scene MTS file from this link (http://www.tengo.com.sg/FS100/00005.MTS). I will remove it after a few days.


Mhhhh, I just read the thread and looked at this file 0005.MTS and I must admit, noise in the shadows is awesome (0 DB = 800 ISO, right?) BUT, I watched it in WMP, in VLC, Imported it Sony Vegas, which correcrly interprets the footage as progressive, exported to Cineform and there is quite a bit aliasing going on on the roof! Just like my 60D would look like.

http://www.imagebanana.com/view/equw9cte/Bild1.jpg <- Screengrab of MTS

The images of my GH2 never had any aliasing and look higher resolved. The FS100 resolution looks more like my old NX5 which was somewhere between 720p and 1080p but more like 720p

Iīm a little shocked because I was looking forward to buying the FS100.

maranfilms
05-12-2011, 06:39 PM
I was geared up to but this cam to, then I bought a gh2, and have been using my old fd glass. Now that im learning to tune this cam in, im getting amazing image quality. But the DR is just not there. Of course for a grand, I wouldnt expect it to have the dr the fs100 does. I still may buy it though. im flip flopping back and fourth.

FelixGER
05-12-2011, 06:52 PM
I was geared up to but this cam to, then I bought a gh2, and have been using my old fd glass. Now that im learning to tune this cam in, im getting amazing image quality. But the DR is just not there. Of course for a grand, I wouldnt expect it to have the dr the fs100 does. I still may buy it though. im flip flopping back and fourth.

DR is only acceptable up to ISO 400, thatīs right.

But the detail it resolves compared to the FS100 shots Iīve seen, Jesus....
http://www.imagebanana.com/view/11m6jegc/Bild8.jpg <- GH2

I donīt know if I want to trade in such drawbacks in resolution and aliasing for more DR and lowlight capabilities.

imag
05-12-2011, 06:57 PM
DR is only acceptable up to ISO 400, thatīs right.

But the detail it resolves compared to the FS100 shots Iīve seen, Jesus....
http://www.imagebanana.com/view/11m6jegc/Bild8.jpg <- GH2

I donīt know if I want to trade in such drawbacks in resolution and aliasing for more DR and lowlight capabilities.

Holy crap. That is impressive. If they can hack the AF100 like that, it will make a lot of people happy they went with Panasonic.

Rick Burnett
05-13-2011, 12:09 AM
Mhhhh, I just read the thread and looked at this file 0005.MTS and I must admit, noise in the shadows is awesome (0 DB = 800 ISO, right?) BUT, I watched it in WMP, in VLC, Imported it Sony Vegas, which correcrly interprets the footage as progressive, exported to Cineform and there is quite a bit aliasing going on on the roof! Just like my 60D would look like.

http://www.imagebanana.com/view/equw9cte/Bild1.jpg <- Screengrab of MTS

The images of my GH2 never had any aliasing and look higher resolved. The FS100 resolution looks more like my old NX5 which was somewhere between 720p and 1080p but more like 720p

Iīm a little shocked because I was looking forward to buying the FS100.

I'm going to tell you right now, if you are seeing all that aliasing, then the footage is NOT being interpreted properly. I've viewed this footage with a multitude of programs at 1:1 and I too see the aliasing in CS5, but then in other programs, it is VERY VERY clean as I would expect. EVERY technical review of the camera talks about how clean the aliasing is on this camera. It's there, but it is VERY minor.

I've used the GH2 first hand and can tell you, in real world situations, the GH2 aliases more than the AF100. Me and another user who owned the GH2 did these tests together, as I own an AF100, and it was clear that the GH2 DEFINITELY suffers from luminance aliasing on high spatial frequency. The most extreme case was fins on an AC unit. It was really bad. The AF100 had no problem with the fins. This is what we expected to see.

Yes, we also shot test charts that showed more aliasing on the AF100, but if you actually also look at color charts, you find out that the GH2 has some serious issues with different color aliasing, not the same as the 60D mind you, I am not talking about chroma characteristics. We are not sure why and Barry Green has tried to figure out why this is. Panasonic has done something different with the AF100 and for normal shooting, they've done an amazing job. In everything I have shot so far, I've not seen ANY aliasing or moire off the AF100 that I detected.

I don't see ANYTHING about the GH2 footage that looks superior to the FS100 footage. The FS100 has higher sensitivity, higher dynamic range, and higher actual resolution. The GH2 is amazingly sharp looking, but after the alias tests we did, I wasn't sold on buying one. Bricks still can affect it pretty easily and I cannot stand that anymore.

Given this was a pre-production model, it is true we don't know what to expect. And why this footage has problems in some editors and not others, could be a bug in the pre-production model and something it is flagging in the footage. But it DEFINITELY goes against the tests I have read that were actually very controlled.

maarek
05-13-2011, 06:10 AM
I'm going to tell you right now, if you are seeing all that aliasing, then the footage is NOT being interpreted properly. I've viewed this footage with a multitude of programs at 1:1 and I too see the aliasing in CS5

CS5 by default is using half-resolution for playback. Try changing it to full, should remove the "aliasing".

Rick Burnett
05-13-2011, 06:46 AM
It's not that, I already tried it. Both pause and playback are set to full quality. It's very strange. In VLC it looks perfect. That said, I am going to try and determine why it's doing this. I'm also going to transcode with clipwrap and see if it looks okay in Premiere then.

FelixGER
05-13-2011, 06:54 AM
I'm going to tell you right now, if you are seeing all that aliasing, then the footage is NOT being interpreted properly. I've viewed this footage with a multitude of programs at 1:1 and I too see the aliasing in CS5, but then in other programs, it is VERY VERY clean as I would expect. EVERY technical review of the camera talks about how clean the aliasing is on this camera. It's there, but it is VERY minor.


Very very weird!
I had the NX5 and thatīs NXCAM just as the FS100. Never had problems in Vegas. I mean, if a Sony NLE doesnīt interpret the footage from a Sony cam correctly...
Thatīs all pretty fishy to me. Letīs wait until the camera is out.

Edit: In VLC I see the aliasing too. Can you see the aliasing in the still I posted from 00005.MTS?
All native MTS Files I watched definitely look a lot softer than GH2 footage. I really hope thatīs because of a "faulty" playback

Rick Burnett
05-13-2011, 07:17 AM
I looked at your footage and at 1:1 I do not see aliasing in the location that you have the red arrow pointing. When I zoom into that ledge, I see what I would expect, and that is, it looks similar to what you get when you draw anti-aliased lines in photoshop which is what it should look like. And it DEFINITELY does not look anything like what a Canon APS-C sensor would do to that edge! :) That edge would be blocky and have red and blue chroma elements on both sides of it depending on how well in focus it was. One thing I know very well is my 7D and I am VERY familiar with how bad the aliasing can be. I think a lot of people don't realize just how horrible it is on high contrast slanted edges, but when I have done my VFX work with footage, I have to deal with it all the time (well, that was until I bought the AF100).

Even more strange, you should see the aliasing I get in Premiere, it is REALLY bad. Something is definitely wrong with how Premiere is handling the footage. Given this is a pre-production model, it could be as simple as flags being interpreted from the footage. I've had this problem with AF100 AVCHD footage and colorspace flags.

I too have looked at a lot of FS100 footage that people have provided and some of it has softness to it, some of it has been pretty sharp to me. None of it of course being as sharp as the F3 footage which is just amazing. I definitely understand what people mean about the GH2 footage being sharp. Whatever they did, they've struck a good balance between sharpness and amplifying the aliasing. However, in my experience with the GH2, I've made it alias without a lot of effort on parallel lines in the shot. And when it does alias, it stands out (although NOT Canon stand out!)

The biggest issue is a lot of these people had the camera for a day or a few hours and most of them did not spend a lot of time tweaking the settings, or even checking them. Also, who knows what else could be the issue? Pre-production is always a bit nefarious. That said, I will have my FS100 in a few weeks hopefully (shipping end of May) so I'll be able to do some testing of it myself. Even if it ends up being this level of detail, I am fine with that. For me the cleanliness of the image is AMAZING.

imag
05-13-2011, 07:34 AM
Point of clarification: I'm assuming that is a post-hack GH2. That's why I think it might beat the AF100. The out-of-the-box GH2 looks ugly, in my opinion.

FelixGER
05-13-2011, 08:04 AM
Point of clarification: I'm assuming that is a post-hack GH2. That's why I think it might beat the AF100. The out-of-the-box GH2 looks ugly, in my opinion.

Uhm, no! You mean my screengrab? Thatīs a standard GH2 PP: Smooth, all Settings -2.

Is the GH2 hack out now???

Rick Burnett
05-13-2011, 08:26 AM
I do not believe so, but nevertheless, let's try to steer this back onto FS100 footage and links. :) I know I contributed to this tangent, it's just, there are plenty of other threads that HEAVILY deal with the GH2, it's performance, and hacks.

Hidef1080
05-25-2011, 05:08 AM
http://www.vimeo.com/24139471

It seems 0db is closer to 500 ISO.

MadMonkFish
06-03-2011, 05:55 AM
Was just looking at the HotRodCamera tuner-S Kit & noticed a new clip - link below. FS100 and PL primes (Cooke Panchro-i's & the Tokina/Duclos 11-16).

http://www.vimeo.com/24602608 - vimeo link

http://www.hotrodcameras.com/2011/06/spirit-hoods-shot-with-the-sony-fs100/ - page over at HotRod

Tuner kit looks nice.

sebben
02-21-2012, 12:14 PM
Does anyone have any raw footage from the FS100 taken on an external recorder? I want to see how much better it is for grading vs the onboard AVCHD.