Red One & 5D & AF100

[Ticheli]

Disclaimer: I do not now nor have I every worked for any camera company or been offered or received anything of value from them. I do not sell cameras and rent my personal cameras very, very, very rarely and only to one or two guys, this out of friendship, not business.

Here's a look at some shots with the Red One, 5DMkII, and pre-production AF100. This is NOT a perfect test; some shots are of different subjects, some with different lenses, however I believe there is much to be learned from this sequence.

Most of the Red shots are with the Cooke 18-100, the 5D shots are with the Canon 24-70, the AF100 with Zeiss Standards.

Make your own evaluation, but there are some things I would like to point out. Note the banding in the pretty girl chart from one of the cameras. Note the moire produced by the same camera on the resolution chart. These artifacts are job destroyers. Unacceptable. On the other hand, some of the shots with this camera are beautiful; it's like having a pet rattlesnake, you just never know when it's going to bite you.

Note the way one of the cameras goes into clip; not as bad as I've seen in other tests, but certainly something to watch out for. I believe this can be controlled through lighting and camera setup. You can see it on the yellow plastic Kodak box; I surely could have mitigated this by pulling the level down with a net. I can see it on the flower shot as well.

One of the cameras does everything extraordinarily well, a direct replacement for 35MM film; one does a very, very good job and with just a little care can do almost any job, the third camera can do a good job under ideal circumstances, but can produce unacceptable, deal-killing shots, and sometimes unexpectedly.

I went back to the AF100 table top shot looking for a better focus section, but all I can find is one where the closest objects are sharp; I've included it. Sorry I don't have one that perfectly matches the AF100 shot, but note the silver dollar coin; I think it looks really good and shows what the Red can do.

Santa is on his way; I hope he is good to one and all.

Here's the link: http://www.vimeo.com/18121646

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

[heavyG]

Thanks Leo.

[timbook2]

Where did you get that 10 Mark bill from? ahh those were the days ...:-) To me all xyz looked fine and if your intention is to say, af100 is good enuff I agree. these are exciting times, similar to what happened to the music industry when MIDI was invented/standardized in the early 80s. we can now afford to buy a camera with a huge single sensor that gives us possibilities we dreamt of 10 years ago. I enjoy witnessing it!

[Kit Hannah]

Thanks Leo. With all of the other shots, each camera looks very nice in its own way. Great Job.

[Luis Caffesse]

it's like having a pet rattlesnake, you just never know when it's going to bite you.

That's a great analogy.
:)


Handle with care.

[Ticheli]

I'll tell you what I'm learning from this; the Red is superior in every way except size, weight, and the requirement to change glass filters. The latter is not trivial; pulling out of the case, cleaning, and fitting takes time; sure just a few moments, but over the course of a shoot day it adds up to enough to cost you the time to do a shot or two, to forego more coverage, or even miss the peak of magic hour.

I believe the AF100 is good enough and "nifty" enough that I'll really enjoy shooting with it, but if I'm in the studio all day on the dolly or doing green screen, I want the Red hands down. When the Epic arrives, the AF100 will have only two real advantages; the filter wheel and low price. For some shoots, those are the deciding factors; for others, they are meaningless.

I do have one bias; I despise the 5DMkII. It's a kludge. It can ruin a shot. No camera that can overheat and shut down in normal use is a worthy professional tool. Yes, I know some really beautiful work has been done with the 5D, but it's my very last choice. All it's really got going for it is the cool factor it currently enjoys.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

[PaPa]

x - red
y- 5d
z- af100 ?

[Adam J McKay]

It can ruin a shot. No camera that can overheat and shut down in normal use is a worthy professional tool.


Leo

So RED is out then? :)

[Kit Hannah]

I think Z is the 5D..
X-AF100
Y-RED
Z-5D ?

[Ticheli]

So RED is out then? :)

Give that man a cigar... for humor!

Red will overheat if you're shooting in a very harsh environment, but so will many cameras. It's the 5D that can't work all day in moderate temperatures. I know people who carry a spare body and just slap it on when the primary overheats. The problem is that the image starts to deteriorate before the camera gives up. If you don't spot it, well, you know...

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

[Ticheli]

Upon further review, I did get something of value from Panasonic; well, not really from Panasonic, but what I did get is the chance to spend the day and work with Barry Green. An honor and privilege.

By the way, Barry likes barbecue.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

[Chris Santucci]

... the 5DMkII. It's a kludge. ... All it's really got going for it is the cool factor it currently enjoys.




Hardly. If the 5D were "cool" and didn't deliver image quality, nobody would be using it. I think it's pretty simple math - for people who use and ask for the 5D and 7D, their choice is based on the end product (image) divided by cost and time. If that equation is the "cool factor" then OK.

If the AF100 for example managed to surpass the image quality of the 5D and 7D, then, maybe the million (or so) that are in use will be cast aside.

Part of why film is almost completely dead, I'd say, has to do with cost and time (loading, unloading, scratch testing, transport, processing, transfer, dailies, dust busting, etc.) Budget is becoming more and more the determining factor, and when you can squeeze footage out of a $2,500. camera body that looks like it was shot on 35mm film (to a layman), that's something a little more than what you could call a "cool factor" especially for producers looking to produce commercials that will have a limited lifespan.

[CraigM]

This test reveals to me the obvious based on the price point and technical specs of each camera. It's seems to me that :
- If you can afford a RED and deal with it's size and requirements it's spectacular.
- For 1/5th the price of a current RED ONE the AF100 is amazing and will be nipping at RED's heals on many jobs. (particularly for those working in 1080 commercial work that almost if never work on films).
- HDSLR's are great for many jobs but sadly have image issues that often pop up unexpectedly.

[Homunculus]

ah ok i guarantee i have it now. it's X=red
y=5dmkii
z=af100.

i guarantee this is accurate

[Kit Hannah]

Well, the reason I think Z is the 5D is because of the fact that the shots are different and the last post of the comparison was from the x-y AF100 vs RED. If the 5D is not Z, you have done a great job throwing people off :-)

[Homunculus]

Well, the reason I think Z is the 5D is because of the fact that the shots are different and the last post of the comparison was from the x-y AF100 vs RED. If the 5D is not Z, you have done a great job throwing people off :-)

sorry kit, but look at the Moire the Y produces on both the photo shot of the female face and the test chart. the AF100 is pretty good on moire and would never produce it that bad on both shots. the 5d is defacto "Y" i guarantee you.......

[Lyris]

Aliasing issues aside, they all look very nicely blended in this web trailer.

On a higher quality source I can imagine the differences being more blatant. With the amount of data captured from the Red One, pre-processing and choice of downscaling algorithm will probably make it possible to elevate the quality clearly beyond the other two cameras. It does look like the AF100 is hitting the right marks.

[S. Matthews]

I'm certain it's

x- Red
y- 5D
z-af100

...As there is a comparison of the woman blowing bubbles which I remember seeing which was between the 5D and the red, and the shot after is of a woman turning around, plus it's kind of apparent from the DOF. Plus the bill shots are the same from his last video, except two new one's the 5D and a new Red one. Though I could be grossly mistaken and remembering some of this wrong.

have a good one

[Kit Hannah]

LOL, maybe Leo switched certain shots around just to mess with everybody... x with the bill shot may not be x with the bubbles?

[S. Matthews]

LOL, maybe Leo switched certain shots around just to mess with everybody... x with the bill shot may not be x with the bubbles?

well then that would just be a jerk move..... just kidding I guess it would be funny... "it was all shot on a handycam", no chance, still the whole bait and switch can be good to shake up a group who gets too picky without actually being able to tell the difference. For example a friend's dad had a friend who thought he was a wine connoisseur, so they had a taste test, from 10 dollar bottles up to hundreds, he couldn't place any of them, he couldn't even tell if it was a Merlot or whatever lets just say he's not the wine guy in the group anymore. We tried it with vodka and a friend he picked out four different brands on the first go.

[Kit Hannah]

well then that would just be a jerk move..... just kidding I guess it would be funny... "it was all shot on a handycam", no chance, still the whole bait and switch can be good to shake up a group who gets too picky without actually being able to tell the difference. For example a friend's dad had a friend who thought he was a wine connoisseur, so they had a taste test, from 10 dollar bottles up to hundreds, he couldn't place any of them, he couldn't even tell if it was a Merlot or whatever lets just say he's not the wine guy in the group anymore. We tried it with vodka and a friend he picked out four different brands on the first go.

I just wouldn't be surprised. I did that a long time ago with HPX500 lens tests between a $125 SD lens and a $7k new HD lens. I asked people to choose and the way I did it, people were "so sure" it was a certain way, then the other way, and people were very surprised at the results.

[bhdfield]

As the M4/3 sensor is a little smaller than a film 35, and much smaller than a full frame sensor, DPs will have to pay close attention to the F stop being used to attain a similar "film look" DOF. I think the shallowness of 5D as it's commonly used is much too shallow for my taste. And by the same token, some of the AF100 footage I've seen, as well as the "Verse" short film, was shot with too deep a DOF for my taste at f8-f11. I'm looking forward to working with my AF to attain the look I want, and then judging the camera's performance from there.

[Ticheli]

Hardly. If the 5D were "cool" and didn't deliver image quality, nobody would be using it. I think it's pretty simple math - for people who use and ask for the 5D and 7D, their choice is based on the end product (image) divided by cost and time. If that equation is the "cool factor" then OK.

If the AF100 for example managed to surpass the image quality of the 5D and 7D, then, maybe the million (or so) that are in use will be cast aside.

Part of why film is almost completely dead, I'd say, has to do with cost and time (loading, unloading, scratch testing, transport, processing, transfer, dailies, dust busting, etc.) Budget is becoming more and more the determining factor, and when you can squeeze footage out of a $2,500. camera body that looks like it was shot on 35mm film (to a layman), that's something a little more than what you could call a "cool factor" especially for producers looking to produce commercials that will have a limited lifespan.

I'm sorry; did I say shooting with the 5D was a kludge? I meant to say nightmare from hell. Moire, banding, jello, and narrow DR are the hallmarks of 5D in addition to ergonomic awkwardness, poor monitoring, silly connectors, and the requirement for double system sound. Oh, I forgot; what are all those under and over-cranking frame rates available on the 5D?

I would hazard a guess that you shoot 5D and it serves you and your clients well; good for you. It's a tough business and anyone lucky and good enough to be successful in it has my deepest respect. Personally, I'd rather drive a truck than make a living with a 5D, and I'm not such a great driver. Might be fun to see more of this country, but I'm not sure I'd enjoy the conversation on a CB radio very much.

I do believe the 5D has it's place; crash cam, B-cam, hidden cam, wild and crazy cam, stealth movie cam, and, sure, for some projects at some budgets, the perfect A cam. I can imagine projects where the actual look of the 5D makes it a good choice. Actually, I really can't, but I'm sure someone else can.

On you view on the economics of shooting film and the rise of the 5D; we agree. Yea!

Finally, even if most viewers cannot tell the 5D footage from 35MM film, I can, and I'm not in this business to please the TV audience. OK, sort of, but only after I've pleased myself.

Have a happy holiday and stay warm in Buffalo; I shot up there and it was very beautiful. Enjoyed that wings place too. Rocking out.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

[Kit Hannah]

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

So do you want to share which is which, Leo?

[Ticheli]

I know we're all winding down, getting ready for the guy in the red suit, and I hope everyone has a safe and happy holiday and returns to enjoy our virtual corner pub.

I absolutely did not do any switching around to try to deceive as to which camera shot which images. It's entirely straight forward.

I don't apologize for any flaws or oversights; as much as I love you all, you're not my clients and you didn't pay me to do meet any particular criteria. I've posted what we done because the community is eager to see just what the AF100 can and cannot do and Barry was generous enough with his time to let us have a go. I've added the 5D and Red material as a frame of reference, and I think, despite any shortcomings in methodology, it shows some pluses and minuses. I made no claims that anything we posted was definitive, other than some significant problems with the 5D and rather impressive ability from the AF100; frankly better than I had guessed.

As to which camera is which; the highest quality images are from the Red. No surprise. The very sharp images are from the AF100; I have little doubt that one of my first adjustments will be to crank the detail down even more. The most telling images to me are the charts; the 5D shows significant banding and moire. The keys are also very instructive. Both Red and AF100 were very easy to pull very good keys, the 5D less so, but far from terrible. Really, I thought the 5D keyed better than I would have predicted.

On the AF100 noise issue, I don't have enough information yet. Surely the AF100 is noisier than the Red. Could it be camera setup? Post flow? I don't know yet. I promise to share anything I discover. It's quite puzzling at this point because we can't see it in our monitors in the studio and edit suites.

Watch out for the drivers who have enjoyed too much "Christmas spirt" and enjoy!

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

[Homunculus]

I know we're all winding down, getting ready for the guy in the red suit, and I hope everyone has a safe and happy holiday and returns to enjoy our virtual corner pub.

I absolutely did not do any switching around to try to deceive as to which camera shot which images. It's entirely straight forward.

I don't apologize for any flaws or oversights; as much as I love you all, you're not my clients and you didn't pay me to do meet any particular criteria. I've posted what we done because the community is eager to see just what the AF100 can and cannot do and Barry was generous enough with his time to let us have a go. I've added the 5D and Red material as a frame of reference, and I think, despite any shortcomings in methodology, it shows some pluses and minuses. I made no claims that anything we posted was definitive, other than some significant problems with the 5D and rather impressive ability from the AF100; frankly better than I had guessed.

As to which camera is which; the highest quality images are from the Red. No surprise. The very sharp images are from the AF100; I have little doubt that one of my first adjustments will be to crank the detail down even more. The most telling images to me are the charts; the 5D shows significant banding and moire. The keys are also very instructive. Both Red and AF100 were very easy to pull very good keys, the 5D less so, but far from terrible. Really, I thought the 5D keyed better than I would have predicted.

On the AF100 noise issue, I don't have enough information yet. Surely the AF100 is noisier than the Red. Could it be camera setup? Post flow? I don't know yet. I promise to share anything I discover. It's quite puzzling at this point because we can't see it in our monitors in the studio and edit suites.

Watch out for the drivers who have enjoyed too much "Christmas spirt" and enjoy!

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo


thanks but can you fill in the definitive answer:

x-red

y-moire

z-af100


correct?

[Kit Hannah]

I know we're all winding down, getting ready for the guy in the red suit, and I hope everyone has a safe and happy holiday and returns to enjoy our virtual corner pub.

I absolutely did not do any switching around to try to deceive as to which camera shot which images. It's entirely straight forward.

I don't apologize for any flaws or oversights; as much as I love you all, you're not my clients and you didn't pay me to do meet any particular criteria. I've posted what we done because the community is eager to see just what the AF100 can and cannot do and Barry was generous enough with his time to let us have a go. I've added the 5D and Red material as a frame of reference, and I think, despite any shortcomings in methodology, it shows some pluses and minuses. I made no claims that anything we posted was definitive, other than some significant problems with the 5D and rather impressive ability from the AF100; frankly better than I had guessed.

As to which camera is which; the highest quality images are from the Red. No surprise. The very sharp images are from the AF100; I have little doubt that one of my first adjustments will be to crank the detail down even more. The most telling images to me are the charts; the 5D shows significant banding and moire. The keys are also very instructive. Both Red and AF100 were very easy to pull very good keys, the 5D less so, but far from terrible. Really, I thought the 5D keyed better than I would have predicted.

On the AF100 noise issue, I don't have enough information yet. Surely the AF100 is noisier than the Red. Could it be camera setup? Post flow? I don't know yet. I promise to share anything I discover. It's quite puzzling at this point because we can't see it in our monitors in the studio and edit suites.

Watch out for the drivers who have enjoyed too much "Christmas spirt" and enjoy!

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

Thanks for taking the time to do it, Leo. Having the extra comparisons definitely helped.

[Ticheli]

The Red camera is labeled X in all shots.

The 5D is labeled Y, except for the grey cloth background table-top objects shot; the Y camera in that shot is the AF100. We did not shoot the 5D on that shot. Remember our test day with the AF100 was never planned to be a side by side camera comparison.

With the exception of the grey cloth background shot table-top, the AF100 is the Z camera.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

[Homunculus]

The Red camera is labeled X in all shots.

The 5D is labeled Y, except for the grey cloth background table-top objects shot; the Y camera in that shot is the AF100. We did not shoot the 5D on that shot. Remember our test day with the AF100 was never planned to be a side by side camera comparison.

With the exception of the grey cloth background shot table-top, the AF100 is the Z camera.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

thank you for proving me correct.

i also assumed that the tabletop shot grey cloth "Y" was AF100 because of your mentioning that the KODAK yellow cap thing had worrisome highlight roll offs. in fact also look at the golden time piece, you see in red one that one spot of glare on it is ok but on the af100 that single spot turns into much more of the rim getting blown out/clipped. but yes the edges/bevels on the letters of kodak cap's highlights are uncomfortably rolled off. but the sharpness is extremely good on af100 in that shot

[Seamus McFlannel]

The "Z" shots were already in another clip of AF-100 shots. So "Z" must be the AF-100.

[thome]

wow wow...im soo loving the AF100....

[Kholi]

I dunno about you but I'm definitely okay with lugging an MX with a Cooke T3 18-100 around, and doing handheld with it.

I'm almost allergic to the jittery cam dslr footage swamping the net and last night I saw a christmas commercial that was so painfully shot on a dslr I lost my train of thought mid conversation.

AF100 will be nice with some master primes, a big zoom or cookes... I'd be afraid to handholds that or an epic with less.

[kprince]

This is what my mushy brain thought everything was :

Shot #
1. X = RED - 00:06
2. Y = 5D2 - 00:11
3. Z = 5D2 - 00:16
4. X = AF - 00:21
5. Y = 5D2 - 00:26
6. X = 5D2 - 00:31
7. Y = RED - 00:35
8. X = RED - 00:39
9. Y = 5D2 - 00:45
10. Z = AF - 00:49
11. X = AF - 00:57
12. Y= 5D2 -00:59
13. Z = RED - 01:00
14. X = 5D2 - 01:02
15. Y = AF - 01:04
16. Z = RED - 01:06

: )

[TimurCivan]

I'm getting a cooke 18-100 for my AF. I'll let you know how it goes.... ;)

[Dino]

I like shoulder mount cameras with mass plus big lenses, but I'm not sure I want to hand hold our Arri Alura 18-80 with AF100, not without a big counter balance. How much does the Cooke zoom weigh Timur? The Alura is 10 lbs. I really bought the Alura for the large sensor P2 Varicam that I hope is weeks away from release, but I'm sure I'll use the Alura with our AF100's on sticks at least.

[Joe Walker]

I think the point that's getting lost the most, is that irrespective of preliminary tests and comparison tests, 99% of you are going to love this camera 99% of the time.

[Kholi]

I like shoulder mount cameras with mass plus big lenses, but I'm not sure I want to hand hold our Arri Alura 18-80 with AF100, not without a big counter balance. How much does the Cooke zoom weigh Timur? The Alura is 10 lbs. I really bought the Alura for the large sensor P2 Varicam that I hope is weeks away from release, but I'm sure I'll use the Alura with our AF100's on sticks at least.

I shoot with an MX'd RED and 18-100 ritually, handheld. I'm sure the entire setup weighs just over 30 lbs, and my arms are sustainably large because of it. I love it though.

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

As the M4/3 sensor is a little smaller than a film 35, and much smaller than a full frame sensor, DPs will have to pay close attention to the F stop being used to attain a similar "film look" DOF. I think the shallowness of 5D as it's commonly used is much too shallow for my taste. And by the same token, some of the AF100 footage I've seen, as well as the "Verse" short film, was shot with too deep a DOF for my taste at f8-f11. I'm looking forward to working with my AF to attain the look I want, and then judging the camera's performance from there.

The M43 sensor on the AF100 is oversized and according to a math Barry Green has done (floating here somewhere), the DOF stop difference between AF100 and S35 is less than half a stop.

[Thomas Kist]

I shoot with an MX'd RED and 18-100
Is that on documentary productions as well?
Cause then 30 lbs might not get you through the day.
Though balance is everything.

[TimurCivan]

I like shoulder mount cameras with mass plus big lenses, but I'm not sure I want to hand hold our Arri Alura 18-80 with AF100, not without a big counter balance. How much does the Cooke zoom weigh Timur? The Alura is 10 lbs. I really bought the Alura for the large sensor P2 Varicam that I hope is weeks away from release, but I'm sure I'll use the Alura with our AF100's on sticks at least.

about 12 pounds. The cooke is a heavy bugger

[Kholi]

Is that on documentary productions as well?
Cause then 30 lbs might not get you through the day.
Though balance is everything.

Oh I don't shoot docs. Narrative and commercial. That might be a different story in that scenario but at the same time, handheld all day on narrative can be a strain. I know i cramped out on the western after a full day.

[Rolf Silber]

Oh I don't shoot docs. Narrative and commercial. That might be a different story in that scenario but at the same time, handheld all day on narrative can be a strain. I know i cramped out on the western after a full day.

Hi Kholi,

we shot our last feature long movie with two Arri 416 - practically all the time both cameras rolling and hand held and shooting whole scenes in one go. The camera guys really had rubber in the legs after that... but: It was fun also.... even for them....

Hope you film goes well... best for the new year...

[Alvise Tedesco]

I dunno about you but I'm definitely okay with lugging an MX with a Cooke T3 18-100 around, and doing handheld with it.

I'm almost allergic to the jittery cam dslr footage swamping the net and last night I saw a christmas commercial that was so painfully shot on a dslr I lost my train of thought mid conversation.

AF100 will be nice with some master primes, a big zoom or cookes... I'd be afraid to handholds that or an epic with less.

Why? Lenses have nothing to do with jittery dslr footage.
Me too I'm almost allergic to the jittery dslr footage after more than 1 year shooting with. Personally I'm very happy to just swap the camera and keep the very decent still primes set I started collecting time ago for dslr. Not that I prefer still to cine lenses.
Rather I'd be afraid to handhold AF100 without an external viewfinder. I will probably use the 5'6 SmallHD for handholding till those will be ready.

[LoganMackay]

Why? Lenses have nothing to do with jittery dslr footage.
Me too I'm almost allergic to the jittery dslr footage after more than 1 year shooting with. Personally I'm very happy to just swap the camera and keep the very decent still primes set I started collecting time ago for dslr. Not that I prefer still to cine lenses.
Rather I'd be afraid to handhold AF100 without an external viewfinder. I will probably use the 5'6 SmallHD for handholding till those will be ready.

I am guessing because master primes or big cinema zooms will add some weight to the AF100. It isn't a very heavy camera and shooting hand held stuff with it could quickly look like DSLR shakey cam footage unless you up the overall weight.

[Kholi]

I am guessing because master primes or big cinema zooms will add some weight to the AF100. It isn't a very heavy camera and shooting hand held stuff with it could quickly look like DSLR shakey cam footage unless you up the overall weight.

Thanks Logan! Good to see ya round!

[Kholi]

Hi Kholi,

we shot our last feature long movie with two Arri 416 - practically all the time both cameras rolling and hand held and shooting whole scenes in one go. The camera guys really had rubber in the legs after that... but: It was fun also.... even for them....

Hope you film goes well... best for the new year...

Yessss I know the feeling. Haha. But it's rewarding in the end and so much fun.

Expect footage soon sir! We're half of the way there.

[LoganMackay]

Thanks Logan! Good to see ya round!

Good to see you around too, thought you were gone hah.

Working on the project like crazy?

[William_Robinette]

The 5D has many flaws, but DR is not one of them. Sure the value of luminance BETWEEN values is limited in range, due to the 8-bit encoding (i.e. poor latitude in post) But the ability to capture a large spectrum of light and dark areas is not. That is a trait inherent to the physical sensor itself. If you cannot see the similarities between 35mm and how the 5D captures shadows and dark areas then you're in the wrong industry... or lying to yourself. They're not exactly on par. But damn... they're close.

Think about this... the 5D is rated around 11 stops of DR for stills right? So go expose for something in stills mode... then switch to video. What happened? Nothing. If the 5D really had poor DR as everyone recently attributes to it (because of FUD), then you would need to re-expose every time you went into video mode. Which isn't so... it's just more important that you get it right, since there is no re-exposing (again this is latitude, not DR). But the point is... is that switching between modes on a camera does not change the sensors inherent ability to see a given spectrum of light levels. It DOES however, change how much information is captured in-between those levels. So if THAT is what you mean by low-dynamic range, then yes, it has low dynamic range. But if you are talking about the overall range of exposure that it has at one time, then you're very wrong. The 5D's large "ballpark" of light levels is what makes the footage look so much like film, even if they not adjustable in post.


Take a RAW still from a 5D, switch to video mode and roll off a couple seconds and then compare a still from that video clip to the still you snapped. If you are seeing the same amount of dynamic range I want some of what you are smoking.

[Kholi]

Take a RAW still from a 5D, switch to video mode and roll off a couple seconds and then compare a still from that video clip to the still you snapped. If you are seeing the same amount of dynamic range I want some of what you are smoking.

Lol. Yeah buddy!

[TimurCivan]

When you set the image settings, contrast to -7, yes you can "record" a wider lattitude, but the compression and artifacting gets multiplied when you recorrect for a more natural looking image.

If we could record the flatter image to a higher quality codec, like cineform 10bit 444 or prores 10bit 422, then perhaps we could take advantage of the incresed of information. The problem lies in recording the higher "lattitude" to the 8bit onboard codec. It muttles a lot of that detail, and it becomes unrecoverable.

Wish it were different. Shooting for look in a HDSLR is the way to go.


The 5D has many flaws, but DR is not one of them. Sure the value of luminance BETWEEN values is limited in range, due to the 8-bit encoding (i.e. poor latitude in post) But the ability to capture a large spectrum of light and dark areas is not. That is a trait inherent to the physical sensor itself. If you cannot see the similarities between 35mm and how the 5D captures shadows and dark areas then you're in the wrong industry... or lying to yourself. They're not exactly on par. But damn... they're close.

Think about this... the 5D is rated around 11 stops of DR for stills right? So go expose for something in stills mode... then switch to video. What happened? Nothing. If the 5D really had poor DR as everyone recently attributes to it (because of FUD), then you would need to re-expose every time you went into video mode. Which isn't so... it's just more important that you get it right, since there is no re-exposing (again this is latitude, not DR). But the point is... is that switching between modes on a camera does not change the sensors inherent ability to see a given spectrum of light levels. It DOES however, change how much information is captured in-between those levels. So if THAT is what you mean by low-dynamic range, then yes, it has low dynamic range. But if you are talking about the overall range of exposure that it has at one time, then you're very wrong. The 5D's large "ballpark" of light levels is what makes the footage look so much like film, even if they not adjustable in post.