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Robert_Niemann
03-16-2005, 06:00 AM
Look at this site, where You can see the first real picture of the new JVC:

http://www.willowstudios.com/jvc-prohd-GY-HD100.gif.

Digigenic
03-16-2005, 06:13 AM
KEWL :thumbsup:

Gary_McClurg
03-16-2005, 06:58 AM
Here's another link to a picture and more information.

http://www.weva.com/cgi-bin/newsreader.pl?op=render&type=i&storyid=2356

MattC
03-16-2005, 07:23 AM
Now that's a camera! Me like!!!

princigalli
03-16-2005, 08:07 AM
Way too big for me. That's OK for studio work, but I won't be walking around with that thing. Sad, sad, sad, I think Sony will stay the only game in town for a long time. Everyone else has missed the boat for prosumer HD.

the_producer
03-16-2005, 08:17 AM
I think that Panny might have a hard sell against this thing. If the price range is in the same ball park. This thing can do uncompress hd out at 60 frames progressive. WOW.

To bad about the mpeg 2 encodeing though. The panny has got the field work, and the JVC has got the studio work. To bad we can not combine the two.

Neil Rowe
03-16-2005, 08:21 AM
Way too big for me. That's OK for studio work, but I won't be walking around with that thing. Sad, sad, sad, I think Sony will stay the only game in town for a long time. Everyone else has missed the boat for prosumer HD.


..:huh: LOLOL you are kidding right.


..and we dont know if the panny can do 60p or uncompressed or all that.. theres alot we just dont know.. we cant assume that just because something hasnt been confirme or denied that its simply not there.

Erik Olson
03-16-2005, 08:44 AM
In my opinion, that thing is just the right size and that lens has the ENG form-factor so lacking on cameras like the DVX and PD and VX series integrated-lens units. Strictly for studio work - are you kidding? That design strikes a perfect transitional balance between conventional ENG 2/3 acquisition (ever handled a DVCam, BetaSP or DVCPro unit?) and the prosumer MiniDV stuff we're using now.

If anything, interchangable lenses and 720p in 24 and 60 rates alike is a detail that will make this a vastly popular camera. I hope it is the watermark that Panasonic's new camera aspires to reach.

I definitely want to take that thing for a test-drive.

e

Robert_Niemann
03-16-2005, 10:13 AM
Thanks, Gary, for the other link! Very interesting to read this:

"[...] In addition to providing superior quality HD recording in the 24p format, the GY-HD100U can output an uncompressed 720/P60 HD signal. This is ideal for live broadcasting, remote news and POV applications. A third party HDSDI converter can provide the full resolution uncompressed signal to an array of systems with no signal delay. [...]"

Is that the end of every 4:2:2 vs. 4:2:0 vs. 4:1:1 discussion? Looks like a cold spring for Canon, Panasonic, Sony...

Dizkoteck
03-16-2005, 09:45 PM
does the LCD screen seem to be in a weird place for you?

10s
03-16-2005, 10:12 PM
This thing will clean up if the new pana falls short. Look at that thing! looks great, not that wimpy prosumer looking design. The interchangable lens alone will make a huge difference in image quality. Although I must admit I really like the gyro lens stabilizer in the DVX, and I usually hate these stabilizers.

The pana can out do-it if it meets this level of functionality/ design / look but delivers a better single frame image, not MPEG GOP crap. I would like to edit with frame accuracy & no drop outs.

I used the JVC GY 500s and they had pro quality switches, batteries, etc... it was tough going from the JVC to the DVX because of all the consumer frailties the DVX uses, the DVX image is very nice!

Below, The black circle above the LCD looks like a speaker for your ear!...nice touch. The LCD does look a little far back but most shoulder mount usage will use the viewfinder. The LCDs for stick usage, and then again most of us have other monitors for viewing.

It looks like someone thought of rods!!!!!....good designers!...The rods underneath should help with matte boxes, just replace with longer rods, add matte box, follow focus... how thoughful! ....................this looks very nice.

Can you believe what this competition among them is giving us? A few years back I could only dream they would get a clue & now they are! This is fantastic.

This camera looks like it might be the next ticket!

c'mon Pana...out do them...I dare you.

http://http://img227.exs.cx/img227/2567/jvcprohdgyhd1003ds.gif (http://www.imageshack.us/)

Barry_Green
03-16-2005, 11:08 PM
Is that the end of every 4:2:2 vs. 4:2:0 vs. 4:1:1 discussion?
Well, no... just because it's uncompressed doesn't mean that it hasn't been color-decimated down to 4:2:0. It may or may not be. The color sampling happens prior to the DCT in DV, not sure when in the chain it happens in HDV. Could be uncompressed 4:4:4, could be uncompressed 4:2:0... we don't know. And I believe people are saying that the Sony also outputs uncompressed HD on its analog component outputs already. And the Panasonic may as well.


Looks like a cold spring for Canon, Panasonic, Sony...
I wouldn't say that at all. Instead I'd say it looks like a very warm spring for the consumer! Choice is always good. And if this new camera is $10,000, then there's a clear choice between it and the Sony. A $10,000 camera might not even make a dent in Sony's $3,000 and $5,000 camera sales. Might rankle Canon a bit, it sure looks like a hybrid XL2/FX1, which would certainly take away some of the appetite for an interchangeable-lens HDV Canon. As for Panasonic, it all remains to be seen.

I like that the manufacturers are taking very divergent paths. Sony went with low-cost, tape-based, fixed-lens interlaced only. JVC seems to be going for higher-cost, interchangeable-lens, progressive-scan. Panasonic is going with who-knows-what, except that it's 24P and uses a new P2 memory recording system. With the cameras all being so different, it should make choosing the right one for each customer a lot easier!

BLUESPIDER
03-17-2005, 12:51 AM
wow, i honestly think that looks really cool! Inerchangable lenses too! Com'on panny, wheres yours?

Robert_Niemann
03-17-2005, 02:36 AM
Robert Niemann wrote: "Looks like a cold spring for Canon, Panasonic, Sony..."

Barry Green answered: "I wouldn't say that at all. Instead I'd say it looks like a very warm spring for the consumer!"

Barry, You are a real dialectician. With kind regards from Mr. Hegel.

Jan_Crittenden
03-17-2005, 02:55 AM
It was posted from the article:
"[...] In addition to providing superior quality HD recording in the 24p format, the GY-HD100U can output an uncompressed 720/P60 HD signal. This is ideal for live broadcasting, remote news and POV applications. A third party HDSDI converter can provide the full resolution uncompressed signal to an array of systems with no signal delay. [...]"

Guys even the FX1 does this. This is not anything diffrent than what is. It is still an HDV format of some derivation.

Best,

Jan

xander76
03-17-2005, 09:02 AM
Guys even the FX1 does this. This is not anything diffrent than what is. It is still an HDV format of some derivation.


Jan, I think that text is saying that the live output signal from the camera (as opposed to tape playback) is uncompressed, making it not an HDV format, since it won't have gone through MPEG compression. Am I wrong?

You're right that the FX1 does this, too, but only with a 1080i60 image. The JVC camera will in theory do this with a 720p60 image and conceivably with a 720p24 image as well. Of course, it's not very easy to record an uncompressed HD signal; you need a G5 with RAID drives, etc. But it is a pretty exciting feature for folks who are doing studio work.

ccroo
03-17-2005, 09:28 AM
All the links on here seem to be down.

How much is this camera?

What's its full name?

Thanks
Raoul

Robert_Niemann
03-17-2005, 09:42 AM
@Raoul:
Looks like JVC has been getting angry about all the pre-released information resp. photo. But the first link only shows the photo, 10s is showing too.
For more information read the following article, written by Chris Hurd: http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/jvcprohd/hd100teaser.php.
The price of the new JVC GY-HD100 will be under 10,000 dollars, and if it is true, what an Italien JVC manager should have said, about 5,000 Euros (which is in the 6,000 to 7,000 dollars price range).

Jan_Crittenden
03-17-2005, 10:20 AM
xander76 wrote: I think that text is saying that the live output signal from the camera (as opposed to tape playback) is uncompressed, making it not an HDV format, since it won't have gone through MPEG compression. Am I wrong?

The Uncompressed output is uncompressed but what goes to tape is compressed as HDV. This is only a 24P derivation to the HDV spec, but the recording is HDV. The output is in the Analog domain and would require a 3rd party device to bing it into any of the HD production systems today as all of those are in HD-SDI.

>You're right that the FX1 does this, too, but only with a 1080i60 image. The JVC camera will in theory do this with a 720p60 image and conceivably with a 720p24 image as well.

Be very careful here as there is no 720P/24 outside of an NLE or outside of a 60P with a 2:3 pulldown. That is there are no devices that record just this, unless it is a computer or some sort of memory.

>Of course, it's not very easy to record an uncompressed HD signal; you need a G5 with RAID drives, etc. But it is a pretty exciting feature for folks who are doing studio work.

But they will need a Analog component to HD-SDI conversion device.

Hope that clarifies as that is basically what the FX1 does but it does it in 1080, not 720.

Best,

Jan

Zig_Zigman
03-17-2005, 03:24 PM
You know, it looks nice....but for personal work I think I might prefer the Sony/Panny form factor. But Jan is spending quite a bit of time "clarifying" JVC features so they must see it as a threat.

Jan_Crittenden
03-17-2005, 03:38 PM
Hey Zig,

I don't see it as a threat. I see confusion and I am trying to help people understand technology. Just like those poor guys that answered my questions so many years ago. I don't do church work but I do "Pay it forward." I spend time just like my mentors spent time with me, I spend time with you.

Unless you would prefer to continue in your misunderstandings, just let me know, I won't post.

Best,

Jan

boo
03-17-2005, 04:05 PM
Unless you would prefer to continue in your misunderstandings, just let me know, I won't post.

Best,

Jan

hey, continue posting jan! you're an important asset to the dvx/hdx community...betcha can't wait for the announcement to end all the confusion...looking forward to the panasonic vip gig at nab...=)

Zig_Zigman
03-17-2005, 05:41 PM
Jan, I definitely do not want you to take your toys and go home. I have enjoyed every single post you have ever made.

Usually clarity comes when someone actually releases a product; this forum likes to jump the gun with speculation.

I imagine that's why we like it here.

10s
03-17-2005, 05:53 PM
I hope all companies see each others products as threats because we the consumers win, when we get free market competition and the resulting better widget. We also see each other as rival film makers and it only makes us get better or drop out.

Jan is doing an exceptoinal job here communicating with us. I doubt there's anything in her employment contract that states she must be on-line answering Q&A from around the world. Hopefully panasonic listens to her and she is conveying our thoughts and aspiriations to the Pana designers. It's really a fairly simple task to understand what film makers want and design it. Let's hope they're serious and not game players.

The JVC folks seem to be listening, it looks like they even provided a place for rods so we can use matte boxes...could you imagine the new Pana being even better...and with out the MPEG stuff? I think we might be sitting on an excellent outcome.

We've spelled it out over & over for these companies willing to listen. Let's see what happens.

Jan keep helping us & pushing the Pana big boys...this is important work in the history of cinema because eventually the monopoly held by 35mm production will tumble and then the world's movie consumer will have even more choice.

J.R. Hudson
03-17-2005, 06:12 PM
I am so stoked on my DVX100 and will use this to the last; experience will determine my need to for upgrade. What excites me is that I know when I am going to move on to bigger/better my choices will undoubtedly be available and at a cost I can live with (Under
$5000.00). Right now it seems thr manufacturers are all going in various directions; when I'm ready I hope it has been figured what he 'best' camera and format will be for the indiependent filmmaker.

God, I'd hate to be inthe market for a camera this year

Robert_Niemann
03-18-2005, 01:11 AM
betcha can't wait for the announcement to end all the confusion...
Do not worry, boo. There will be new confusion, as there is confusion all the time.


Jan is doing an exceptoinal job here communicating with us. I doubt there's anything in her employment contract that states she must be on-line answering Q&A from around the world.
Once I have heard, that Jarred had been the man in the background, who pulled the strings regarding Jan's employment contract...

bgundu
03-18-2005, 07:12 AM
You know, it looks nice....but for personal work I think I might prefer the Sony/Panny form factor. But Jan is spending quite a bit of time "clarifying" JVC features so they must see it as a threat.

As a product manager, it's imperative to know the competition. I'm glad to see that Jan's well on it.

Flintstone
03-18-2005, 07:22 AM
I absolutely love the look of that new JVC. It has one huge problem, as with the XL series, there is no weight in the back to counter-balance the cam. Perhaps there will be some sort of bracket system?

Anyhow! I can wait to see the HDX too. Same time next month, we will see the light! :engel017:

Neil Rowe
03-18-2005, 07:51 AM
..id assume that concerning JVC and Panny.. that JVC always knows what Panny is doing and visa versa. that way they dont step on eachothers toes too much being divsions of the same corporation. i dont think its coincidence that they will be releasing closely priced cameras which concentrate on different marketing strengths at about the same time. but just a guess.. i could be very wrong...

Flintstone
03-18-2005, 08:01 AM
I think you pretty much summed it up ok!

Jan_Crittenden
03-18-2005, 10:22 AM
Once I have heard, that Jarred had been the man in the background, who pulled the strings regarding Jan's employment contract...

You are joking right?

Jan

Neil Rowe
03-18-2005, 10:27 AM
..well whats important to me is that given the specs there are at this time and the level of confidence that Jan has in her new product im willing to put myself in panny's corner. why? .. well i may not know jan very well personally, but i do know that she is an intelligent individual that knows the industry, and about knows her products, and the industry trends and changes. i know that she listens to us and treis to make us happy with great service and great products. so when Jan comes accross as , and says that she is very confident in her new camera as being the hottest thing out there.. well, i cant help but realize that shes likely packing one big punch with the thing to take such a stand behind it.

..if i was a bettin' man id reckon that shes been dealt a pretty good hand. and from the smile on her face id be shinooked if it was just a bluff.

Digigenic
03-18-2005, 11:59 AM
Man, that first picture was great...

ddh
03-19-2005, 03:32 PM
Jan's been more than fair in giving us DVXers support, deals and as much information as she can on products, so, she has my full support and admiration. I do hope on the new HDX that there is lens swap capabilities; that's one of the biggest liabilities of the DVX. To see JVC come out with an obviously sweet looking cam with some nice features just suggest the direction small/light cams are going in. I think Panasonic is behind the eight ball on this. I'm looking forward to the outings at NAB!

bgundu
03-19-2005, 03:40 PM
I think it's pretty clear that the new HDX will not have changeable lenses. As that would be cool, I think the fact that Panasonic is offering higher resolution with better color space more than makes up for it. Let's not forget P2 technology. Who are we kidding? We all know the future is tapeless. Panasonic is already ahead of the game with this.

spidey
03-19-2005, 06:19 PM
is it just me or does JVC models look like something from the 80's

Flintstone
03-19-2005, 07:27 PM
it's just you! :laugh:

I wonder if that lens will have the same characteristics of a 1/2" or 2/3" pro lens, or if it's just a cheap imitation?

Digigenic
03-19-2005, 07:43 PM
It won't be a cheap imitation...it'll be cheap in an original sort of way.

Flintstone
03-20-2005, 07:15 AM
LOL :evil:

yellowdog
03-20-2005, 09:21 AM
i wish NAB would come and go already.Jeez.

skettalee
03-21-2005, 05:57 PM
Damn I missed it, the links dont work for me. Cant wait to see it!

Rezzie
03-22-2005, 08:56 PM
Here's a high-resolution picture of it that I found at DVInfo.net:
Here (http://www.digitaltelevision.com/prohd.jpg)

Jaime Valles
03-22-2005, 10:03 PM
I must say, that is an impressive looking camera! I wonder if they can get good motion without artifacts. This could really be a great camera, but I'm not holding my breath. The HDX still looks like it can deliver better looking images (pure speculation based on presumed specs) with real DVCPRO HD instead of HDV. Though that lens looks veeeerrrryyyy nnniiiiiiiccceeee!

Barry_Green
03-22-2005, 10:19 PM
Yeah, about that lens -- it looks like the wide angle is 7.3mm. That's not too wide for a 1/3" camera; the XL2 goes to about 5.5mm, the PD150 is 6mm, the DVX and FX1 are 4.5mm. 7.3 seems a little telephoto, which makes me wonder -- is it perhaps a remounted 1/2" lens? Which would be okay, just kind of telephoto... but, what if it's not a remounted 1/2" lens... what if it's actually a 1/2" lens? If so, that could maybe mean that it could take any 1/2" lens. That would be quite interesting.

Well, only four more weeks of speculation before we get to find out for sure!

melyncolly
03-22-2005, 10:44 PM
the above links are dead to me, but this link doesnt make the LCD to appear that oddly placed...

http://www.digitaltelevision.com/prohd.jpg

Nate Weaver
03-22-2005, 11:27 PM
Yeah, about that lens -- it looks like the wide angle is 7.3mm. That's not too wide for a 1/3" camera; the XL2 goes to about 5.5mm, the PD150 is 6mm, the DVX and FX1 are 4.5mm. 7.3 seems a little telephoto, which makes me wonder -- is it perhaps a remounted 1/2" lens?

The sparse list of specs released already by Sean Dinwoodie mentions a 16x (which the 7.3 to 117 is), and a 13x wide available for the camera.

In the WEVA article that was pulled, they mentioned an adapter to mount 1/2" lenses would be available also.

10s
03-23-2005, 12:42 AM
The picture from the digital television link gave me a huge beautiful close up. Thanks!

If this thing had larger CCDs to help with the Lagrange Invariant DOF factor and skipped the HDV format for a better format it would definately be the one for me. I like the design. They're using good switches, it appears to have a metal body and it looks well thought out. I even actually like the large handle on top.

And it does have a place for rods!!!!! It appears the design team is listening. I never thought that would happen. Can you image? designers actually listening and incorportaing user input without telling them NO.

The new panasonic HDX is going to have to be really impressive to beat this JVC.

Simon Wyndham
03-23-2005, 02:30 AM
This camera looks pretty superb. Hopefully with the battery attached it will be less front heavy. But I like the way the switches and functions are placed seemingly very ergonomically. The audio level dial is in a nice place, and the camera has user assignable buttons which is always useful.

The lens looks fairly nice, although I notice it only goes down to f1.9. With a 1/3" CCD I do wonder how lowlight performance will be even compared with the FX1.

If only JVC had gone for a higher bitrate recording. Arrrrggghhh!

Simon Wyndham
03-23-2005, 02:33 AM
One thing I would be interested in knowing is whether that viewfinder is a CRT or LCD/

Neil Rowe
03-23-2005, 06:19 AM
..the rods look small. like they are made for other larger rods to screw on over them. .. pretty cool, but of course id rather just have a pair of 15mm standard rods that can slide into the body of the camera when not in use. .. maybe the HDX has the same setup as this though.

Barry_Green
03-23-2005, 12:48 PM
Ken Freed of JVC has confirmed a couple of things. The viewfinder is color LCD, for one. He said the lens mount should have interchangeable options so 1/2" lenses could be used as well. Ken's been posting on DVInfo, if anyone wants to direct questions to him.

Flintstone
03-23-2005, 01:28 PM
Color LCD viewfinder??? Yuck! I hope that viewfinder is a standard one so it can be swapped with a nice pro b/w CRT viewfinder.

Simon Wyndham
03-23-2005, 02:19 PM
Yes. It was when I asked if it was a CRT that he replied that it was a colour LCD as they don't want to make CRT's anymore. I find this a shame. Video cameras of higher levels need good accurate viewfinders and I'm afraid LCD's don't cut the mustard. Hopefully it can be replaced by a 3rd party.

Barry_Green
03-23-2005, 02:32 PM
Yeah, but -- any idea what a high-definition CRT viewfinder might cost? I'm sure LCD was probably the only option they could employ, at the price point. The viewfinder for the CineAlta costs about $3600!

Flintstone
03-23-2005, 02:57 PM
But I don't think they'll put in an HD LCD on the viewfinder. Well, if they do, it would be great. Or perhaps they'll employ the same (temporary rescale) technique as on the FX1/Z1 for more acurate focusing?

Simon Wyndham
03-23-2005, 03:33 PM
True Barry, but what I'm saying is that it would be great if it was detachable so that those who really want the quality could attach a real CRT viewfinder if they wanted to.

Flintstone, yes, they have in fact put an enhanced focus option on the camera.

bilgami
03-25-2005, 12:07 PM
:thumbsup:

[b]Me personally ive never liked jvc but thats only cuz at the tv stations that i worked we always had sony or panasonic and those cams shot a great pic, looking at the pics of this new jvc hd cam its nice i like it. i only hope panasonic can have all the looks features and then some of the jvc.

bilgami@hotmail.com

http://www.bilgamivideo.com (http://www.bilgamivideo.com/)

Sirius_Doggy
04-04-2005, 06:18 PM
Just got the mail and the JVC GY-HD100 ProHD cam made the cover of Studio Monthly magazine. Looks pretty cool. Much closer pic than those posted here.

Mediacre
04-05-2005, 06:01 AM
..and we dont know if the panny can do 60p or uncompressed or all that.. theres alot we just dont know.. we cant assume that just because something hasnt been confirme or denied that its simply not there.

You are right. But we do know it will basically be a DVX100 HD. Meaning it will have a fixed lens with those irritating automatic forever spinning rings. The JVC gives you broadcast lens options and real control rings with uncompressed HD and for what I heard, not only 60p, but 24,25 and 50fps as well.
Knowing panasonic, I would even bet the DSP will be exactly like the DVX100 which for me is also a problem, since there's no enough control in there.

Mediacre
04-05-2005, 06:03 AM
Way too big for me. That's OK for studio work, but I won't be walking around with that thing. Sad, sad, sad, I think Sony will stay the only game in town for a long time. Everyone else has missed the boat for prosumer HD.

I, personally prefer to shoot with pro sized cameras. So this JVC is just right. Light but yet shoulder mount. I never liked the toy sized cameras.

Mediacre
04-05-2005, 06:27 AM
xander76 wrote:
The Uncompressed output is uncompressed but what goes to tape is compressed as HDV. This is only a 24P derivation to the HDV spec, but the recording is HDV. The output is in the Analog domain and would require a 3rd party device to bing it into any of the HD production systems today as all of those are in HD-SDI.

Be very careful here as there is no 720P/24 outside of an NLE or outside of a 60P with a 2:3 pulldown. That is there are no devices that record just this, unless it is a computer or some sort of memory.

But they will need a Analog component to HD-SDI conversion device.

Hope that clarifies as that is basically what the FX1 does but it does it in 1080, not 720.

Best,

Jan

Jan, yes, it will be analog, but you can capture it straight to a HDD using Black Magic Designs A/D converter and get a sweeter signal than DVCPRO-HD which is compressed. Heck, my guess is that even if one would just feed it to a high end Beta SP deck, it might still looking better than compressed HD.
Although the Sony does it as well, I think it goes out via composite or maybe S-video. We don't know how JVC will do it. Maybe component. Besides, the sony sees through that el crepo prosumer lens (like the DVX100 and apparently HVX200) which not only is worse glass, but limits your work as a cinematographer. It's also interlaced only. So, there's realy no comparison here. It's like saying : The HVX200 records to solid state media but so does many consumer 1 CCD camcorders, so it's not better. It's a different camera, a different animal.

Barry_Green
04-05-2005, 06:50 PM
I, personally prefer to shoot with pro sized cameras. So this JVC is just right. Light but yet shoulder mount. I never liked the toy sized cameras.
Have you seen how big the JVC is? I wouldn't call that a "pro sized" camera. It's the same size, maybe a tiny bit bigger, than the DVX, and a little smaller than the XL2.

Mediacre
04-06-2005, 02:18 AM
I know it's not pro sized. Note I said, I prefer shooting with pro sized, not that the JVC is pro size. That's why I said light but yet shoulder mount.

David Jimerson
04-06-2005, 03:52 AM
I know it's not pro sized. Note I said, I prefer shooting with pro sized, not that the JVC is pro size. That's why I said light but yet shoulder mount.

You said that 1) you prefer "pro-size" cameras, 2) that you never liked the "toy size" cameras, and 3) that the JVC is "just right." You got all over Jan about context; that was the context of your statement. The way Barry took your meaning is the same way I did, too, and I'm betting most everyone else also.

Mediacre
04-06-2005, 03:58 AM
Ok, what I mean is. I like pro sized cameras and the JVC is more of a pro sized than the HVX200. That the JVC has pro size features, but yet is lighter. Wich would make it just right in size.
Clear now? Let me know if you need I break it down in a easier way.
Cheers.

P.S. About Jan, she quoted me out of context. That's different than you not being able to understand what I meant.

David Jimerson
04-06-2005, 04:02 AM
Well, that's what Barry was speaking to. (??) Have you seen the comparative photos, based on the size of the XLR inputs (which have to be the same on both cams)? The JVC is only slightly larger than the DVX, and it looks like the HVX is about the same size as the DVX but with a longer lens barrel. You're talking about two cameras which are about the same size.

That was Barry's point.

Mediacre
04-06-2005, 04:08 AM
Well, that's what Barry was speaking to. (??) Have you seen the comparative photos, based on the size of the XLR inputs (which have to be the same on both cams)? The JVC is only slightly larger than the DVX, and it looks like the HVX is about the same size as the DVX but with a longer lens barrel. You're talking about two cameras which are about the same size.

That was Barry's point.

I can imagine the JVC size by the lens. I shoot with pro cameras and lenses. If you look how big that fuji lens is in relation to the body of the camera, you can get a good picture of the full camera's size. I think it will be about the size of the XL1, without the odd V shape, which makes it better for shoulder mount. The HVX seems to be the size of a DVX which is a totally different size and form factor. Form fact is what is in focus here along with the size. The JVC has a more pro form factor to it. The DVX and XL1 are not the same size by the way. And regardless of it being slightly larger as you say, which doesn't look like, but anyways, you can't mount a DVX or HVX on your shoulder can you?

David Jimerson
04-06-2005, 05:26 AM
All apologies to 10s for hijacking his photo comparison from another thread:

http://img237.exs.cx/img237/4872/jvcdvx9pw.jpg


We donít know for sure the size of the JVCís lens. However, we DO know that the XLR inputs are standard and will be the same size on both cams. Therefore, if theyíre equal size in the photos, this should be a pretty accurate size comparison.

Now, donít get me wrong; I do like the look of the JVC. But this is pretty convincing evidence that if itís bigger than the HVX, itís not going to be significantly bigger. (The size of the XL series cams entirely notwithstanding. Theyíre comfortably larger.)

Mediacre
04-06-2005, 05:56 AM
That pic is to in right scale. You can clearly see the XLRs are bigger in the DVX and it shouldn't be if it was in right scale. That pic is off. Look how huge the DVX viewfinder looks close to the HD100. The HD100 has the same viewfinder as the DV5000, so I heard. Not possible the DVX finder being bigger.
I also don't see why Fuji would spend time and mony to make a smaller lens rather than using one of their lenses with an 1/3" mount adapted end. By the zoom grip you can see it's jus a standard fuji lens.

Mediacre
04-06-2005, 06:11 AM
That's more like it:

http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/402cb8e8_adc1/bc/My+Documents/JVC+vs+Panna.jpg?bfeQ.UCBCEKNr9fv

Note how the XLR and the viewfinder seems more in scale with each other.


by the way, how do you post a pic? I tried to click the image button but it posted the link to the pci instead of the pic. Thanks.

David Jimerson
04-06-2005, 06:57 AM
That page wouldn't come up.

I did a quick test with the photo above. I took the photo into Microsoft Paint and cropped it into a little square with all the sides touching a tangent point on the outer edge of the XLR circle on the JVC. Going to "Image Attributes," the square was 18x18 pixels.

I did the same for the DVX XLRs (don't let the silver throw you), and the square was 20x20.

A little larger, yes. Enough to throw the comparison into serious doubt? No. It's only a single pixel on each side.

The DVX viewfinder is unusually big, don't forget.

Also, look at the handstraps. They're comparable size.

As I said, the JVC may be a little bit bigger. But not like the XL series is bigger.

(You can post a photo by typing "url" -- or use the button above the full reply box which looks like a mountain and sun against a yellow sky.)

Mediacre
04-06-2005, 08:56 AM
For some reason, I can't post pics. I did what you said, but only the url of the pciture will show. Weird.