Jan at Birns and Sawyer NOW any questions for her?

[Steve Kahn]

Like the title says. AF100 presentation going on now

[Jim Brennan]

I guess that's why she wasn't at the DV Expo in Colorado. We missed you Jan.

[Steve Kahn]

She has been working hard.

EVF looks great! No problems focusing with it! Can't wait for the cam.

Only not such great news
1. still no audio in over/under crank
2. HD-SDI does NOT output over/undercrank. Jan says only way to record this is to SD cards. Boo!

(Adam Wilt was there. Talked to him. He will be doing a write-up on the camera. He seems pretty jazzed about it.)

[Jim Brennan]

Wow didn't know that about the over/undercrank. Disappointing, but not a dealbreaker.

Steve, did you happen to see if the waveform/vectorscope would output to an external monitor? It's the one thing I regret not checking earlier today.

[Steve Kahn]

Jim, good question. I wish I thought of it. No monitor attached this time.

[vcfilms]

Will the nano do over/under crank via HD-sdi on this camera?

[Steve Kahn]

I asked her directly and unless she misunderstood me, or I her, she siad HD-SDI does NOT output over/under crank video.

[Barry_Green]

This has already been discussed. The AF100 doesn't transmit those signals, because no standard exists for them. HD-SDI doesn't transmit 1080/60p (or any "p" beyond 1080/30). It's not just the HD-SDI on this camera, it's any HD-SDI. HD-SDI is governed by SMPTE 292M, and it has a maximum transfer rate of 1.5gbps. 1080/60i takes about 1.48gbps. There is no room, and no capability, to transmit more data. 1080/60p doesn't exist as a broadcast standard. HD-SDI can't transmit it. The only way you could get it would be with dual-link HD-SDI, and even then, I don't think that there's a codified protocol for transporting it. SMPTE 424M specifies the 3Gbps data rate of dual-link HD-SDI, but I don't think it specifies video formats for 1080/60p.

[Steve Kahn]

Sorry to beat a dead horse but what is outputted via HD-sdi when overcranking? Is it say 60p in a 30p or 24p or interlaced timeline?

Because Jan made it seem that nothing was outputted in such a case.

[BobbyMurcerFan]

I believe HDMI's specs allow for overcranking.

[vcfilms]

However, the nano flash currently does over/undercrank with the Sony EX1 so in that case it should do it with the AF100? Maybe Dan can chime in here or someone that has experience with both.

[Duke M.]

The Nano/EX1 combo overcranks in 720p mode up to 60p, or 1080p mode up to 30p. 720p can be uprezed to a good 1080p. Undercranking can be done in all modes.

[Jan_Crittenden]

Steve, did you happen to see if the waveform/vectorscope would output to an external monitor?

No it doesn't sorry. Reason is that it might well be something that the camera operator might do during record and the only place it could leave the came is over the SDI, What happens if you are also recording from that output? Camera guy turns it on to check his shot and now it is on the external recording. So the failsafe is to just not do it. Hope you understand.

Jan

[mcgeedigital]

No it doesn't sorry. Reason is that it might well be something that the camera operator might do during record and the only place it could leave the came is over the SDI, What happens if you are also recording from that output? Camera guy turns it on to check his shot and now it is on the external recording. So the failsafe is to just not do it. Hope you understand.

Jan

That makes sense.

[Brian@202020]

No it doesn't sorry. Reason is that it might well be something that the camera operator might do during record and the only place it could leave the came is over the SDI, What happens if you are also recording from that output? Camera guy turns it on to check his shot and now it is on the external recording. So the failsafe is to just not do it. Hope you understand.

Jan

It'd be nice if it was at least an option to output it. Maybe in a firmware update? or maybe in a future P2 version of this camera? I remember more than a few times where I wished this was possible with my 170.

[BobbyMurcerFan]

The Nano/EX1 combo overcranks in 720p mode up to 60p, or 1080p mode up to 30p. 720p can be uprezed to a good 1080p. Undercranking can be done in all modes.

Duke,

Is that true for both the HD-SDI and the HDMI? B/c the last two revisions to HDMI allow enough bandwidth for 1080 60P (AFAICT).

[Andrew Stone]

Makes sense about 1080 overcrank exceeding the HD-SDI spec. The reality is still a bitter pill to swallow. If it was 3G it would be a different matter. Should be noted the EX cams output 720p60. Will the AF100 output 720p60 via HD-SDI?

[BobbyMurcerFan]

BobbyMurcerFan

The problem isn't that the HD-SDI on the nano can't do up 60p in 1080, it's that the EX1 only does up to 30p in 1080 and does 720 up to 60p. It's a camera issue not one of the HD-SDI output AFAIK. What I would like to know is whether the Nano can record 60p in 1080 coming out of the HD-SDI, I'm definitely hoping yes.

Actually, I think the question for Convergent Design is can the nano's HDMI input take overcranked 1080P. B/c, as Barry pointed out, single link HD-SDI is not wide enough.

And I think the ? for Panasonic is what resolution does the HDMI port output when overcranking?


P.S. But to be honest, I just don't think 1080P overcranked is going to be a reality for this combination.

[Jim Brennan]

No it doesn't sorry. Reason is that it might well be something that the camera operator might do during record and the only place it could leave the came is over the SDI, What happens if you are also recording from that output? Camera guy turns it on to check his shot and now it is on the external recording. So the failsafe is to just not do it. Hope you understand.

Jan

:thumbsup:

[Barry_Green]

If it was 3G it would be a different matter.
That's what it would require, yes. 3GSDI has adequate bandwidth to handle 1080/60p. However, I haven't looked recently but -- I still don't know if SMPTE has codified 1080/60p standards yet. 'course, they might have and I just haven't paid attention.


Should be noted the EX cams output 720p60. Will the AF100 output 720p60 via HD-SDI?
Yes, of course. 720/60p has been part of the HD-SDI spec from the beginning; the HPX170 and HPX500 output 720/60p and so does the AF100.
It's 1080/60p that's the problem, because it doesn't exist as a broadcast or data transmission standard, AFAIK. It's coming, obviously, but I don't think it's here yet.

[Brandon Freeman]

I think 720/60p with no aliasing or moire is just fine. :)

[Dan_Kanes]

Just wanted to pop in and say:
Birns and Sawyer is the lamest rental house in Los Angeles.

[Steve Kahn]

Why? Have you had problems with them?

[Dan_Kanes]

Why? Have you had problems with them?

Yes, Huge Problems. I can't elaborate in too much detail for legal reasons - however in a town with a Huge number of EXCELLENT rental and sales houses with EXCELLENT Service, excellent support, and forward thinking management there is no reason to support a house plagued with Failure.

[Duke M.]

Duke,

Is that true for both the HD-SDI and the HDMI? B/c the last two revisions to HDMI allow enough bandwidth for 1080 60P (AFAICT). The EX1 doesn't have HDMI (only HD-SDI, component and composite), though the EX1R does. I don't have an EX1R to test it.

HDMI v1.3 does have additional bandwidth and supports extra features. However, the few cameras that I've seen with HDMI have v1.2 which does not have the bandwidth. The Nano doesn't support it either.

I'm wondering if its a backwards compatibility issue. The HDMI is mostly so you can view footage on your HDTV. Older HDTVs only have HDMI v1.2. Its probably also to simplify circuitry. HDMI and HD-SDI are similar signals. Having a different standard to support inside the camera probably doesn't make sense.

[Barry_Green]

HDMI has the bandwidth to support computer monitors at massive resolutions and framerates. But is there any camcorder outputting a 1080/60p video signal over its HDMI? I don't think they've finished standardizing the 1080/60p broadcast video protocol, and until they do that, you will not see 1080/60p being output on any professional/broadcast equipment.