Birger Mount

[Michael Olsen]

As we all know, one benefit of the m4/3 mount is the ability to use almost any lens due to the very shallow flange distance.

Unfortunately, the downside is that many people have electronic lenses now that aren't easily controlled without an electronic mount (Canon EF mount, case in point).

Fortunately, it was said some time ago that Birger Engineering, Inc. - creator of the Birger EF mount lens kit for RED ONE - would also be making an EF mount for the AF-100.

--

Is there any pricing or availability information on this? Will it come it at less than the ~$1,300.00 for the "EF Mount Basic Starter Kit" for RED ONE?

[groveChuck]

There was an earlier Birger thread that Birger commented on. Once:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?223126-AF100-micro-Four-Thirds-Birger-electronic-mount-for-Canon-EOS-lenses&p=2116270&viewfull=1#post2116270 post 49:

As Barry said, we won't be talking much, but we're listening... any requests?

As I said on another thread, with access to a set of five 2.8 L series IS lenses, I would put a deposit down if the adapter comes out for under $500. $350 would be fantastic- they'd sell by the bucketload.
Barry said in that thread he thought it would be cheaper than the RED adapter, possibly in this price range.

Birger's site doesn't have an email address. I have a shoot Monday, if I get a chance, I'll call- if not, I'll call Tuesday.

mail: Birger Engineering, Inc.
38 Chauncy Street; Suite #1101
Boston, Massachusetts 02111
phone: 617.695.9233 fax: 617.695.9234 web: www.birger.com (http://www.birger.com/)

[Multi-Media]

One thing to keep in mind is the fact that even though an adapter may be able to control a particular lens, that lens may not be desireable as a video lens (in autofocus mode). Today, I received my 14-140 and 20mm 1.7 Lumix lenses... I was reading the manual on the 20mm about turning AF off if the noise becomes too much for you... to quote the user manual "This lens uses a lens-drive system... (edit) ... as a result of this, there are operating sounds and vibrations when focusing, but this is not a malfunction. Operating sounds are recorded when autofocusing during motion picture recording. If operating sounds become bothersome, we recommend setting to manual focus (MF) and fixing focus before recording to avoid recording the lens noise."
The 14-140 is the one that is designed for use with video with a quiet and smooth operation... so when using my Nikon or other auto lenses, the adapter control may not be something I would want to use. I got a basic adapter for the Nikon lenses for now, and will see how that works out in the future, but what needs to be kept in mind regardless of adapter development, is video compatibility of the lens... If you think about how the lens acts (jerking and clicking and whirring) during stills shooting, you certainly wouldn't want that going on during video recording.

[Taylor Rudd]

I can't imagine many conditions where shooting with autofocus would be desirable

[groveChuck]

As far as I know, The Birger adapter would not work in AF mode, nor would I want it to.
The benefit of using one is to be able to manually control iris. Manual focus would already be possible on the lens.

[mcgeedigital]

I'd buy one tomorrow to use my L glass.

[groveChuck]

I'd buy one tomorrow to use my L glass.

Amen, brother!!! :thumbsup:

[Yak]

I can't imagine many conditions where shooting with autofocus would be desirable
In a controlled environment you are correct except if the face recognition of the AF-100 could be used to hold focus of a active interviewee who has a hard time sitting still, or to pull focus without using a focus puller. The place where autofocus would be desirable is in run and gun situations.

[mcgeedigital]

In a controlled environment you are correct except if the face recognition of the AF-100 could be used to hold focus of a active interviewee who has a hard time sitting still, or to pull focus without using a focus puller. The place where autofocus would be desirable is in run and gun situations.

I run and gun all of the time with my 5d/7d and with practice can pull focus 95% faster and more accurately manually than any autofocus.

AF is for still photos, not video.

[dmpsk8]

Is there an official delivery date or price yet?

[Taylor Rudd]

I run and gun all of the time with my 5d/7d and with practice can pull focus 95% faster and more accurately manually than any autofocus.

AF is for still photos, not video.

Yup. At 18+ megapixels shooting wide open, you're better off trusting AF for stills.

Definitely looking forward to this adapter

[Barry_Green]

Is there an official delivery date or price yet?
For the Birger adapter? No. No official announcement yet. The only things we know are that I bugged 'em enough that they finally let me confirm that it's them developing it. I put the latest update in the other Birger thread.

Sounds promising. But no price or delivery dates have been announced at all.

[dcloud]

if it makes a differencein price, birger guys, make 2 versions... one aperture only (cheap!).. the other for other stuff you could do (price all you want!).

[Jaime Valles]

if it makes a differencein price, birger guys, make 2 versions... one aperture only (cheap!).. the other for other stuff you could do (price all you want!).

Absolutely. All I'd want is the aperture control on EOS lenses.

[Joe Lawry]

agreed. a solid mount with very little play and iris control is all 90% of is want. Who actually uses autofocus in video.. ?

[iknuhp]

This mount will hopefully have FULL control and communication with Canon EF lenses.

[thekreative]

just got a eos film camera from ebay for $9 to see if I can control the aperture on my eos to 4/3 adapter. I'm planing to pull out the pin array and the electronics and wire it to the adapter....... fingers crossed. It will be bulky but should work , and for $9 its worth a try!

[derbrocks09]

Great idea. Keep us posted.

[xbourque]

Absolutely. All I'd want is the aperture control on EOS lenses.

... and power to the IS system.

[Jesse Brauning]

just got a eos film camera from ebay for $9 to see if I can control the aperture on my eos to 4/3 adapter. I'm planing to pull out the pin array and the electronics and wire it to the adapter....... fingers crossed. It will be bulky but should work , and for $9 its worth a try!

I don't see how that could work... unless you're coding some software in there to translate. The signals can't possibly be the same.

[gk16blman]

I contacted Birger Engineering about a week ago. This is the response I received:

AF100 product is in development. The formal announcement
(price/features) will be in November. We will start shipping in December.


Regards,
Erik.

---
Erik Widding
President
Birger Engineering, Inc.

[majikfraug]

AF100 product is in development. The formal announcement
(price/features) will be in November. We will start shipping in December.

That is awesome!

[Rick Burnett]

#1 priority for me is Iris control obviously, however, I want focus control for ONE reason, when my camera is up on the crane and I need to tweak the focus a bit, it would be REAL nice to do that remotely instead of lowering it down, adjusting, putting it back up.

I too will be ordering one immediately so it gets here before my AF100.

[impressive creations]

I know this may sound like a silly question, but how does the adapter attach to the camera? Does it just "Click" in like a lens? Or does the adapter use screws etc? How does the Birger RED adapter go on? Click? Quick? Someone told me if you have a AF-100 and a canon lens, in order to use the adapter and the lens it's like putting two lenses on. Click, click?

Does that click? Am I clicken!

Thanks for the click-date! (up-date). Oh, maybe I am just getting excited to use my 7D as a sweet still camera. Click click click....

b.p.

[Jesse Brauning]

Yes. Adapters just click on like a lens.

[impressive creations]

Yes. Adapters just click on like a lens.

Thanks! Awesome!! That's Click-in awesome!!

[Michael Olsen]

How does the Birger RED adapter go on?

It's significantly more complicated than "click". But, of course, that's just for RED. AF-100 should be easy.

[NextWaveG]

I run and gun all of the time with my 5d/7d and with practice can pull focus 95% faster and more accurately manually than any autofocus.

AF is for still photos, not video.

If the facial tracking is any good at all, it might be a nice tool to have. I'll still pull focus for most shots, but having that feature (assuming it works well) would be nice.

[mcgeedigital]

If the facial tracking is any good at all, it might be a nice tool to have. I'll still pull focus for most shots, but having that feature (assuming it works well) would be nice.

Agreed.

[Osslund]

It's late November, any news?

[Squirrel]

http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/public/product_images/altimage/16%2012%2020101292543160birger_af100_prelim.jpg

Birger Engineering is currently developing a specialist lens mount to allow the use of Canon EF lenses on the Panasonic AG-AF100 / AG-AF101 Micro 4/3" camcorder.

The mount features full electronic interface so that the lens aperture can be properly controlled via the camera's iris control dial. Automatic iris will be supported and continuous (video-style) auto-focus will also be supported on most Canon "L-series" lenses. Power is provided by the camera for most lenses. Image stabilization is supported on "IS" lenses and this feature can be turned on or off from the lens.

Anticipated shipping date is 14th February 2011.

[James Bridges]

I have never purchased anything from Birger, do you buy directly from them or a second party?

[RieniO]

http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/public/view_item_cat.php?catalogue_number=birger_mount_ca non_ef_micro_43

Expected in stock 21/02/2011
£499 / 606 euros / $801

Perfect!

[dcloud]

800? Blerg

[Kenn Christenson]

In The U.S. - you order direct from Birger. The company has yet to put up any way to reserve the AF100 adapter, though.

[Jesse Brauning]

That's a hell of an awesome feature-set. Booyah.

[dcarstens]

With all the concern over torque on the mount, should there be a rod support for the mount for lenses without a support built in?

[Kenn Christenson]

Absolutely should have a lens support for the heftier lenses like the Canon 70-200s, etc. Redrock makes a nice support, which I use.

On certain lenses, lens supports are necessary - no matter the mount or make of camera.

[mcgeedigital]

I currently use the Zacuto lens support and it works fine.

[acoelho1]

http://www.hdwarrior.co.uk/

[dojchemark]

Is the information that he is working with Sigma ,Tokina ?

[jayspire]

What are our options to use Canon lenses until Feb when Birger mount arrives?

[mcgeedigital]

Throw it on with a dumb mount and use the built-in NDs in the camera to control exposure.

Like this:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/attachment.php?attachmentid=27139&d=1292792215

[swanny]

What was being used as a lens support for that lens? Is there something that can be used along with the tripod plate on some of these larger canon lenses?

[olof]

Like most DSLR rail systems with big L glass you just use a lens support on the 15mm rods.

[obonin]

I run and gun all of the time with my 5d/7d and with practice can pull focus 95% faster and more accurately manually than any autofocus.

AF is for still photos, not video.

I'm not an expert, far from all the other contributors to this forum. I made my documentary with the DVX100 and AF was great (and of course DVX100 had a deep DOF). Then I moved to HPX170 (with still a deep DOF), and then AF was not that great. And now I shoot quite a bit with a 5D, and I'm pretty convinced that AF would suck. The biggest problem with manual focusing is that you need to be able to see where the focus point is, and that I think can easily be resolved with a monitor.

So instead of worrying how to bring AF to the AF100, I think we should worry about how to monitor the FOCUS point the best and most convenient way possible. Basically that comes down to getting good visual tools to make your focus. One solution would be to always have 2 images to monitor what you're doing, one for framing, the other for focusing. The one for focusing would give you a detailed pixel-to-pixel section of your full frame. I know that focus-assist already allows that, but in run-and-gun situation that doesn't really help.

I wonder what the best way to do this would be without adding a monitor to the slew of accessories already needed. And please the next AF100, must come with P2!!!

[jayspire]

what "dumb mount" do you recommend? appreciate any details

[jayspire]

Would the Fotodiox work with EFS (APS-C) lenses? I assume I'd set aperture on my SLR then put onto the AF100.
http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Adapter-Thirds-Olympus-Panasonic/dp/tags-on-product/B003EAXT5G

[artforme]

Is the information that he is working with Sigma ,Tokina ?

I'm also curious if it will work with Sigma lenses.

[mkfotos.com]

Interesting tidbit: http://www.eoshd.com/content/504-Birger-Canon-to-AF100-adapter-to-also-support-GH1-and-GH2

[Gnasher]

If it functions the same way as my RED ONE Birger mount it should have the function to control focus via a remote unit which is great for steadicam and remote focus pullers. Don't even think about trying to use it in a AF mode.

[paragasd]

spoke to birger today and they are developing an electronic follow focus as well as the adapter that will allow you to have much more accurate throw from canon glass. good news

[Erik Naso]

spoke to birger today and they are developing an electronic follow focus as well as the adapter that will allow you to have much more accurate throw from canon glass. good news
I hope the Birger iris control works better on Canon L glass than the Lumix 20mm does. Big delay when scrolling.

[szimmer]

spoke to birger today and they are developing an electronic follow focus as well as the adapter that will allow you to have much more accurate throw from canon glass. good news

Cool. Do you know if that will be available in February also?

Simon

[wbrock001]

Is there a preorder for the birger?

[paragasd]

looks availability will be very limited in february. it's more like a soft launch. no pre-order. and the follow focus won't be ready until NAB most likely. good news is that they said the iris control works really well with the AF100. Erik i know what you mean, that pancake lens is slow on iris! so curious to see how it all works out.

[LightMast]

Do they have dealers or will the be for sale directly through birger?

[wbrock001]

Exactly! How does one obtain one through the "soft" launch? Thanks in advance!

[Rick Burnett]

Can't wait to get one! :)

[cckid]

I have my af-101 on backorder and a great set of canon lenses...this is a must have item on my list...cant wait to get one also

[LightMast]

Exactly! How does one obtain one through the "soft" launch? Thanks in advance!

Any word on this?

[wbrock001]

Nothing!

[sofresh]

Little bit of a let down on the info, I heard such good things about them as a company. Hopefully the deadline does not move back any further:( I made the mistake of selling all my fd lenses to early. I have the kipon mount for now which is better than nothing.

[Barry_Green]

How can it be possibly construed as a "letdown"? They said February 14th. It's not February 14th yet. They haven't moved the deadline at all.

[sofresh]

spoke to birger today and they are developing an electronic follow focus as well as the adapter that will allow you to have much more accurate throw from canon glass. good news

Hiya did they sound confident on the delivery date?


Many thanks

Suresh

[derbrocks09]

I for one am not very confident in the Feb 14th date at all. Didn't they originally say December announcement with an early January release, expecting plenty of units to be available?

I would certainly have expected some news out of Birger by now. How about an update. Are there no prototypes out there? Nobody has reviewed it right? Plus their website is kinda a joke. You click on the link to preorder and you are directed to a page meant for the RED birger mount. Huh?

I sure hope I can get mine ASAP but I'd be surprised if anyone has a production unit anytime this month. Hope I'm wrong.

[wbrock001]

Well they're probably more engineers than marketing mavens, so their website will probably be updated when they're shipping units. That way no hurt feelers if they don't meet some deadline. But as Barry said, there has been nothing to say they aren't on target to ship february 14th...which also means they may have some pissy spouses if they work late that night.

[sofresh]

How can it be possibly construed as a "letdown"? They said February 14th. It's not February 14th yet. They haven't moved the deadline at all.


Fair point! the feb 14th shipping date moved to the 21st on the creative video website. Would really like to have an update as I've already paid for mount and after the veiwfactor nightmare I'm a little but sceptical I guess. But hey, hope I'm wrong:)

[Brian@202020]

...I've already paid for mount...

Really?

[sofresh]

Really?

Yup! Cvp are taking ore orders

[Shooter]

Whats the deal with you guys paying in advance for your gear!

Just curious?

[szimmer]

Yes, I would also like to know what the cost is of pre-ordering and what do you get?

Simon

[Jarek Zabczynski]

Still no rumblings on a Nikon mount I assume.

[sofresh]

Yes, I would also like to know what the cost is of pre-ordering and what do you get?

Simon

http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/index.php?t=product/birger_mount_canon_ef_micro_43


Have a look at the link

[dcloud]

hmm thats a pricey pre order :\

[sofresh]

hmm thats a pricey pre order :\

:( hope I haven't made a mistake. But cvp have been good to me over the years. And I sort have no choice. 10 L series len's gathering dust and a body I carn't really use unless I spend more money on the olympus zooms. So it's just a waiting game. Could really do with a little bit of hope from birger

[dcloud]

im sure youll get it. just at a higher price.

[wbrock001]

Anyone know someone at birger well enough to organize a group buy for dvxusers? Seems many of us will want one, so why not become our own dealer?

[dcloud]

id bite :)

[kiener]

:( hope I haven't made a mistake. But cvp have been good to me over the years. And I sort have no choice. 10 L series len's gathering dust and a body I carn't really use unless I spend more money on the olympus zooms. So it's just a waiting game. Could really do with a little bit of hope from birger

Have you looked into Fotodiox's adapter? (http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Adapter-Thirds-Olympus-Panasonic/dp/B003EAXT5G)

The price is right, though you'll need an EOS camera for iris control. At least you can dust off your lenses...

[sofresh]

Have you looked into Fotodiox's adapter? (http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Adapter-Thirds-Olympus-Panasonic/dp/B003EAXT5G)

The price is right, though you'll need an EOS camera for iris control. At least you can dust off your lenses...


Thanks mate! I already have kipon mount which is a little better as it has its own aperture blades but you can only stop Down to f4 before seeing vin.

[Erik Naso]

Anyone know someone at birger well enough to organize a group buy for dvxusers? Seems many of us will want one, so why not become our own dealer?
I'm in if it can be done!

[sofresh]

Just spoke to cvp and they have the first Pr order with birger but they alluded I shouldn't hold my breath for the 21st:(

[Barry_Green]

I asked Birger for an update, and I got one.


We should have an update out soon to the "general news" list. But in the interim, please feel free to pass on this information.

We are in the process of getting our dealer network set up, and getting a model that works across the various markets that we sell into, took more time and debate than we expected. Traditionally we sold direct, but the quickly growing popularity of this product dictated that we work through resellers. We think the model that we have come up with is going to make it easy for customers to buy the product, and to do so from the same dealers selling the cameras.

We are going to do a phased release of the product, and we will need to update the ship date of the product on the web site. We are going to need to make sure that our dealers are able to support the product, and that we have sufficient support and testing prior to a mass release. Last thing we want to do is issue a software update just as volume is getting into the pipeline.

Right now, it is looking like friends and family and dealers will have access to production units (first articles, not for resale) early March, with a large scale release around the time of NAB. These dates should all be taken as plus or minus a couple of weeks. Anybody that is wondering about the friends and family phase, needn't. If we don't already know you, you aren't on the list.

We won't be participating in a group buy. It is core to Birger's distribution and pricing model that customers have local access to the product, and local support. A group buy is contrary to this end, as it risks taking a sale away from a local reseller for no reason other than a small discount.

Thanks for the great questions, and the continued interest.

So - no, it won't be shipping in February. That's disappointing, but ... at least now we know.

Demo models for feedback should be hitting testers and resellers in March, but those are not for sale. Sounds like those units are mostly for testing and fixing, prior to the general release to the public. Looks like those on the early list are going to be getting units early, in exchange for pledging to test them and provide feedback so that the product works when it's released in April. And, before anyone asks, he's already said that they have enough people on that list, so no need for volunteers. I presume those first units are going to be hand-crafted and therefore their production capacity on those would be quite limited, sounds like the same kind of launch Red is doing for the Epic.

And their reasoning on not doing a group buy makes sense -- they have dealers for that. We'll just have to ask one of their dealers to do a group buy for us. Birger can't sell to dealers and then undercut the dealers by selling to us directly, but a dealer could make a group buy. I don't know who their distribution network in the USA is going to include, but if any of our DVXUser Sponsor dealers are on that list, we can probably approach them about doing a group buy.

So -- no Birger adapter on Feb. 14th, the new date is targeted for about mid-April.

[swanny]

I asked Birger for an update, and I got one.



So - no, it won't be shipping in February. That's disappointing, but ... at least now we know.

Demo models for feedback should be hitting testers and resellers in March, but those are not for sale. Sounds like those units are mostly for testing and fixing, prior to the general release to the public. Looks like those on the early list are going to be getting units early, in exchange for pledging to test them and provide feedback so that the product works when it's released in April. And, before anyone asks, he's already said that they have enough people on that list, so no need for volunteers. I presume those first units are going to be hand-crafted and therefore their production capacity on those would be quite limited, sounds like the same kind of launch Red is doing for the Epic.

And their reasoning on not doing a group buy makes sense -- they have dealers for that. We'll just have to ask one of their dealers to do a group buy for us. Birger can't sell to dealers and then undercut the dealers by selling to us directly, but a dealer could make a group buy. I don't know who their distribution network in the USA is going to include, but if any of our DVXUser Sponsor dealers are on that list, we can probably approach them about doing a group buy.

So -- no Birger adapter on Feb. 14th, the new date is targeted for about mid-April.

That changes the game for a lot of us!

[Rick Burnett]

Yeah, that's too bad :( I'll just have to rework my priorities then for the next few months and hope we really see something April time frame. Hehe, I have 2 lenses with aperture control, a 50 and an 85, maybe I'll just take that as a challenge to just use them on the next project (since it is a for fun project).

[Barry_Green]

That changes the game for a lot of us!

Yep, instead of two weeks away it's now two months away. At least we know now.

[jburke14]

Yep, instead of two weeks away it's now two months away. At least we know now.

http://shop.texasmediasystems.com/Kipon-EOS-m43-Canon-EOS-to-Micro-Four-Thirds-Lens-Adapter-w-Aperture-Control_p_3095.html

Best thing I've seen up til this point. Not what everyone wants but still, OK until the Birger comes out.

[mkfotos.com]

So -- no Birger adapter on Feb. 14th, the new date is targeted for about mid-April.

I literally just got off the phone with them and was going to post the same: April + no GB. Crap :cry:

[szimmer]

Thanks for the update Barry.

It seems like everyone's pessimism about the February 14, 2011 date was justified.

Darn! That is too bad.

So the $700 price from their website still stands? Or is that changing too?

Simon

[swanny]

The olympus 35-100 is looking better and better!!

[Brian@202020]

Kipon is jumping for joy. Something, regardless of flaws, is better to some people than nothing at all. I'll just use my Nikon primes for now.

[mkfotos.com]

Kipon is jumping for joy. Something, regardless of flaws, is better to some people than nothing at all. I'll just use my Nikon primes for now.

Yep, and there goes the price of manual glass on eBay. Oh well, Kipon + plain/donut adapters + ND filters + FF will have to do for now. Not sure what I'll miss most, the electronic focus, or IS.

[Barry_Green]

So the $700 price from their website still stands? Or is that changing too?
No mention of any change in price.

[wbrock001]

Dang, that really stinks because I was planning on buying a bunch of canon L glass to go with the birger...now that has to be put off for 2 more months. I don't know if anyone else is in a similar boat, but the window of opportunity for many of these products may be lost because of this sort of thing. I agree its better to have a finished solid product ready to get out there, but Canon and birger may lose my business since I may have to get a lens system in place much sooner than two months...whatever I end up going with is what I'll be stuck with for a while so need to make it count. Very disappointing.

[sofresh]

How can it be possibly construed as a "letdown"? They said February 14th. It's not February 14th yet. They haven't moved the deadline at all.

They have now:(

can i call it a let down now?

[wbrock001]

+1 on letdown

[Barry_Green]

Yes, now that it's confirmed, you can certainly call it a letdown.

[LightMast]

Ok. Time to order some Olympus glass. Can't wait that long without aperture control.

[Brian@202020]

...and holy crap why won't they adapt/make an aperture control interface for the AF100, a-la LiveLens?

http://store.redrockmicro.com/Catalog/Lens-Mounts-for-M2-Encore/LiveLens-active-lens-mount-for-Canon-EF-lenses

http://www.redrockmicro.com/cartpics/livelens_lg.jpg

This was mentioned on another thread and I thought it to be relevant here so I moved it here.

[sofresh]

could it be done?

[mkfotos.com]

could it be done?

What, the Redrock? Absolutely. They already have the Canon side figured out, they'd just need to flip/slim down/remote the little control module, and change the back mount to a dummy m43. Voila!

[Brian@202020]

Why not, Redrock already has the technology. They could steal some of Birgers thunder if they hustle.

[Taylor Rudd]

They have the Canon side of the technology. I imagine it could take more in R&D to figure out the Panasonic side than they're willing to shell out. Of course that's assuming it would be designed to interface with the camera's iris control electronically.

[sofresh]

just emailed Brian Valente from Redrock Micro to see what he's saying! lets see if he can shed some light on if its possible

[Brian@202020]

They have the Canon side of the technology. I imagine it could take more in R&D to figure out the Panasonic side than they're willing to shell out. Of course that's assuming it would be designed to interface with the camera's iris control electronically.

Yes if they wanted to go that route for a future "deluxe" model, but for a "basic" model that has a digital read out like the picture, they already have everything they need. To most people this would be enough.

[Taylor Rudd]

Yes if they wanted to go that route for aa future "deluxe" model, but for a "basic" model that has a digital read out like the picture, they already have everything they need. To most people this would be enough.

Agreed.

[Rick Burnett]

Not that I wouldn't be happy with multiple companies making an adapter, that way, we have at least have options if they have limitations, however, thinking that something would be done before the Birger is just not going to happen unless they've been secretly already working on it. It's one thing to figure out the Canon side, which even I've figured out with the help of multiple sites (it's pretty cool), but documentation on the m4/3 side is much harder to find, and, it will take some digital circuitry to glue the sides together if you will. They use different protocols from what I can tell, and that means quite a bit of work. Yes, I am aware they have a module that probably solves many of the issues. That said, just the engineering time alone to get back samples to test and make sure they work great on a mount they've not designed for could take a month it itself. Now, if they make a dumb mount that just gives us Iris control and possibly power for the IS, well, that's a different story and at least in my case would hold me over if it were priced right. Still, 2 months is not a long time if they haven't started.

[groveChuck]

Don't know if things have changed since, but I emailed Redrock back on Oct 1:


Thanks for your email and interest. The LiveLens is only for use with our 35mm adapter and Canon EOS/EF lenses. We have no plans to use it for anything else.


Have a great day!

Kind Regards,
Rachel Howard


Customer Consultant
Redrock Micro

[sofresh]

Don't know if things have changed since, but I emailed Redrock back on Oct 1:

Dream crusher!:)

Looks like I'm buying the Olympus's in the morning

[Brian@202020]

Don't know if things have changed since, but I emailed Redrock back on Oct 1:

Well Redrock might have missed the boat then. Too bad.

[sofresh]

I really would have expected more than just changing the Release date on a website and talking about friends and family knowing how many people were counting on them! Come on birger sort it out! Ok I guess I have stop moaning but if your reading this Eric you can still make this happen mate!

[groveChuck]

I posted the email then, but that's why I had nearly all my eggs in the Birger basket (I have 4 L lenses).

I have to decide whether to live with a single 50mm Canon FD, or go Oly, or Tokina, or more FDs, or........ sigh... :embarasse

[sofresh]

I posted the email then, but that's why I had nearly all my eggs in the Birger basket (I have 4 L lenses).

I have to decide whether to live with a single 50mm Canon FD, or go Oly, or Tokina, or more FDs, or........ sigh... :embarasse

I used the olympus zooms with Philip on the Turin brakes video and I was sold on the spot(so damm sharp!) but was convienced birger were going to come through with the goods

[sofresh]

I used the olympus zooms with Philip on the Turin brakes video and I was sold on the spot(so damm sharp!) but was convienced birger were going to come through with the goods


I now have a week or 2 until they are in stock anywhere:(

[Shipsides]

They are working hard on the adapter, and it will be worth the wait. Personally I can't wait to use my Canon 50 and 70-200 on the camera.

[mcgeedigital]

http://shop.texasmediasystems.com/Kipon-EOS-m43-Canon-EOS-to-Micro-Four-Thirds-Lens-Adapter-w-Aperture-Control_p_3095.html

Best thing I've seen up til this point. Not what everyone wants but still, OK until the Birger comes out.

That is what I am using and it works fine.

[Shipsides]

Placing an iris behind the actual iris (nodal point) of the lens causes problems for many lenses. It is still a cool idea that Kipon had, just a bit strange.

[groveChuck]

That is what I am using and it works fine.

Matt, what range of apertures do you use with the Kipon?

[mcgeedigital]

Placing an iris behind the actual iris (nodal point) of the lens causes problems for many lenses. It is still a cool idea that Kipon had, just a bit strange.

It is my ONLY option right now so I deal with it.

[mcgeedigital]

Matt, what range of apertures do you use with the Kipon?

Hard to say as there aren't any apeture markings on the adapter, jut arbitrary numbers.

http://philipbloom.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/2010127144843.jpg

[groveChuck]

You keep the lens wide open and stop down slightly with the Kipon? Or vice-versa?

[mcgeedigital]

You keep the lens wide open and stop down slightly with the Kipon?

Yes.

[mkfotos.com]

I suppose one could buy a cheap EOS camera (say, a beat up 10D or Rebel) and use it to set the aperture, but man what a pain...

[wbrock001]

My concern with investing so much in Olympus is that its so platform specific, at least canon can be used on other platforms with ease.

[sofresh]

My concern with investing so much in Olympus is that its so platform specific, at least canon can be used on other platforms with ease.

I wouldn't quite says with ease. because of the digital iris you only have the birger for the af100 or redrock mount for their 35mm adaptor and the eos camera body's of course. The Glass is amazing and worth it if the mount does come out

but

i for one have lost respect and faith in birger for poor communication. I'm sure they are nice guys but this is no way to treat professional customers who have taken a leap of faith in them.

investing in the nikon mount seems like a safer option but the f2 olympus zooms are amazing.!!
I'm sure you've seen this http://philipbloom.net/2011/01/21/turinbrakes/ we mostly used the 14-35 on that shoot and it looked GREAT!

[olof]

Kipon can't really add aperture numbers because it will differ by what lens you are using. Very different with a f1.2 50mm and an f4-5.6 100-400 zoom for example, so numbers just give you slight idea.

[kiener]

That is what I am using and it works fine.

I'm curious about the image vignetting at "lower stops." Has this been an issue at all for you? I'll be testing one soon enough :)

[wbrock001]

I wouldn't quite says with ease. because of the digital iris you only have the birger for the af100 or redrock mount for their 35mm adaptor and the eos camera body's of course. The Glass is amazing and worth it if the mount does come out

but

i for one have lost respect and faith in birger for poor communication. I'm sure they are nice guys but this is no way to treat professional customers who have taken a leap of faith in them.

investing in the nikon mount seems like a safer option but the f2 olympus zooms are amazing.!!
I'm sure you've seen this http://philipbloom.net/2011/01/21/turinbrakes/ we mostly used the 14-35 on that shoot and it looked GREAT!

Yes I did watch that and it did look beautiful. So no doubt the zuiko glass is top notch. I have a photographic bg in shooting with the Minolta platform and have some nice glass and was excited when Sony bought them out and made some real dslrs, but I've gotten to the point where I'm tired of sticking with the underdog/niche manufacturers. They are great tools but if I'm going to plunk down $5-6k on lenses, I really want to be sure they're more versatile. Cp.2's are beyond my reach, and primes in general just aren't flexible enough for what I shoot. Sony has some awesome zeiss glass, but who knows if any of those lenses will have adapters in the future. Canon it's a no brainer that someone will make one for future cameras. Nikon has no electronic adapter with any pending release, so it seems canon is probably the best bet. Philip Bloom certainly thought so with his canon investment. So come on birger, get us our adapter!!!

[sofresh]

I had no choice pre order for olympus made! Birger still has time to redeem themselves as its going to take 3 weeks. COME ON BIRGER (Eric) you must be reading this and be really disappointed that all the excitement about your product has now gone up in smoke!!

have you read this

http://www.freshdv.com/2011/02/birger-af100-delayed.html

SORT IT OUT!

[sofresh]

just read this as well

http://indie4k.com/archives/92

Come on Erick don't do what you've done with the RED!! AGAIN! A few late nights is not going to kill you to keep to the deadline!

[swanny]

Maybe this isn't his full time gig. Maybe he has another job keeping his hours occupied?

[sofresh]

Maybe this isn't his full time gig. Maybe he has another job keeping his hours occupied?

That is possible but to be honest don't care

[swanny]

I'm just saying, I don't know how much of a fire he has under his A@$ to get this thing out there. Could be one of 2 things, 1. the process is way harder than we realize, 2. he has other good income so he doesn't really NEED this to come out yesterday.
If a big chunk of my yearly income was riding on putting out a lens adapter, I would be working my butt off doing crazy overtime to meet the deadline. I put in plenty of overtime as it is, just being a business owner and making sure my projects get delivered in a timely manner.

[Taylor Rudd]

That is possible but to be honest don't care

I think we're all disappointed. But, please be a gentleman about it.

[sofresh]

I think we're all disappointed. But, please be a gentleman about it.

Nothing personal to him, just the product. Like I said before I'm sure they are nice people but if you put yourself out there you have to deliver! Bottom-line

I'm sure if you had a client and you moved your delivery date with no proper explanation or oppoligy they would be disappointed.

[swanny]

Nothing personal to him, just the product. Like I said before I'm sure they are nice people but if you put yourself out there you have to deliver! Bottom-line

I'm sure if you had a client and you moved your delivery date with no proper explanation or oppoligy they would be disappointed.

Absolutely! No question they would be disappointed. Bad business for sure. Don't make promises you can't keep!

[sofresh]

Absolutely! No question they would be disappointed. Bad business for sure. Don't make promises you can't keep!

To befair they still have time to sort this out and regain confidence in the product and brand.

[swanny]

How so? Initially in November I believe, they said it would be ready when the camera was released (end of Dec) then it was pushed to Feb 14th, now to the end of April. I think the majority of the people that will be getting it now, will be the ones that already own a ton of canon glass. I was holding off for the birger mount so I could buy some canon glass, as many I'm sure where in the same boat. Now, I'll probably be focusing on the 35-100 with lens support. Sounds to me they already lost quite a bit of credibility with the 2 already missed projected releases. Maybe the third time is a charm. I think you said it best though, if we had missed 2 deadlines with our own personal customers, we'd lose quite a bit of face, and in most cases lose the client all together.

[olof]

I had a video to shoot here in NH we needed beautiful weather and talent available the same 4 days. It took 4 months to do that shoot. Because we could not control the weather, and the availability of talent and director.

Our client was still very happy with the project even though it took 3 months more to shoot than we had originally figured.

Some things you can't control like sub contractors for electronics, CNC shops, anodizers etc. etc. and unforeseen engineering problems. Or the weather for that matter. Today I have 3 shipment held up because of the storm.

I am sure Birger will come through and it will be a great product. In the mean time I am just making do. I also am still waiting for the Voightlander 25mm f.95, another manufacturer who is having a hard time producing products to meet demand.

I would rather wait a couple extra months than to have a 90% product. Often the last 10% takes 90% of the time.

And just like a video project in the end the final product is what everyone has to live with and remembers.

[wbrock001]

So based on those articles, there really isn't much history showing that Birger will even deliver for NAB. So that kind of shoots down the plans to get canon, at least novoflex has a good adapter for nikon and perhaps in the future Birger will have a nikon mount, but in the meantime with high end nikon glass and the novoflex adapter, I'll have full manual control over my lenses. I've heard a lot of hot and cold over the kipon, so spending $200 on an okay adapter or spending almost $300 on one with real aperture control and much better quality sounds like a better bet.

[sofresh]

Good point, I wish my clients were so understanding:) but back in the real world we have to work to deadlines and deliver. Sorry fella that is the bottom line in my world. a decent explanation from birger would explain if they need extra time because of electronics or the weather or whaterver

[Birger]

Barry mentioned that this thread was worth giving a look. There are some very passionate people here. We have an exciting product coming. We take all of the passion that is being expressed here as a sign of that. It is clear that we (here at Birger) aren't the only ones excited about this product. But let's try to keep this civil. Engineering and manufacturing projects do have adjustments in schedule from time to time. It is a fact of life.

For the past three years, 100% of Birger's revenue has come from the manufacture and sale of motion control systems for camera lenses. For the past three years, this has come to be all we do. And we do it well.

Aside from building and shipping our current products, getting the AF100 product finished and shipping is our only priority. You have my word on that. You will not find us hanging out on the boards talking about our products, or discussing the details of what necessitated the schedule change. My last post on this forum was many months ago, and my next may be equally far off.

Sit tight. Go to the back up plan if you need to. The product is coming.

[wbrock001]

I definitely think this passion is because we want to use your product and the af100, so the idea of having to wait longer and put off our intended use can just as easily turn from excitement to frustration. I know I was hoping to get it in a couple weeks and buy canon glass and put all this lens research behind me and get shooting, so that's what was frustrating for me...now I have to figure out if I can wait or not, and then figure out an alternative path. Thank you for coming to the forum, Convergent Design is a company that was very active on the boards so we always knew where they were, issues that cropped up, it was a pretty good model for building good will with their potential customer base. Not that you have the interest or personnel to do that, but its a thought. Thank you again, I look forward to your product if it turns out I can wait. Also is there pricing on the remote control yet? Thanks in advance!

[sofresh]

Sorry is that it?

I see a lot of words but nothing Informative, this is not personal before anyone says anything:)

Can you please give us some more solid information on delivery dates?

I personally have invested in over £5k worth of eos glass Because of your original delivery schedule already.

I haven't really got a plan b my only other option will cost me alot of money

[Brian@202020]

I personally have invested in over £5k worth of eos glass Because of your original delivery schedule already.

Why would you do that?


I haven't really got a plan b

Why wouldn't you do that?

[sofresh]

Why would you do that?



Why wouldn't you do that?

Not sure what you mean?

[Brian@202020]

Not sure what you mean?

Why would you invest over £5k on glass that is dependent on a product that hasn't been released yet without a plan B?

[sofresh]

Why would you invest over £5k on glass that is dependent on a product that hasn't been released yet without a plan B?


Pure stupidity and belief in people/brands delivering what they say, which again is pure stupidity!

Don't get me wrong I made the mistake, I have to hire in glass instead of using what I have until birger come through.

That's why I Would like some more info on delivery

[Barry_Green]

Good point, I wish my clients were so understanding:) but back in the real world we have to work to deadlines and deliver. Sorry fella that is the bottom line in my world. a decent explanation from birger would explain if they need extra time because of electronics or the weather or whaterver
Did you even read my post? They did explain. They said that they have had to change things because they are setting up for global distribution through resellers.

[Barry_Green]

Sorry is that it?
Yes. That is it.


I see a lot of words but nothing Informative, this is not personal before anyone says anything:)

Can you please give us some more solid information on delivery dates?
They already did. They said it would be released in mid-April. And they also said that that date could easily slip by a couple of weeks, either way -- sooner, or later.

[Barry_Green]

Pure stupidity and belief in people/brands delivering what they say, which again is pure stupidity!

Don't get me wrong I made the mistake, I have to hire in glass instead of using what I have until birger come through.

That's why I Would like some more info on delivery

Yes, you made a mistake. And with all due respect, please don't blame someone else for a mistake you made. That's no different than the people sitting on the sidelines screaming about Red for not delivering the Scarlet.

Here is the cold, hard truth -- a product that is unreleased is a product that is unreleased, and it will not be released until it is ready. It will not be released before it's ready because you want it sooner, it will not be released before it's ready because you need it sooner, it will not be released before it's ready. And if it was released before it's ready, you wouldn't want it anyway! And, furthermore, any dates they give are going to be subject to change. It won't be ready until it's ready. And it won't be released until it's ready.

You say "just work harder". It doesn't work that way. Nine women, no matter how hard they try, cannot produce a baby in one month.

So here's the cold hard reality -- you've dug yourself in a hole, and now you have to take the efforts to make it work. My advice to you is to just get the Kipon adapter and get to work. Or buy a couple of Lumix lenses, and when the Birger mount comes out, if you're still interested in it, sell the Lumix lenses on ebay. You will probably get 80% of what you paid for them, which means that you'd be basically "renting" them for almost free.

Some of my longest-standing advice on this forum is: "never buy something that doesn't do what you want, hoping that it will change." That's just foolhardy. The only products you can choose from are those that are on the market right now. Any future product is, by definition, not an option until it is available for purchase. Making business decisions based on anticipated future product introductions is not wise.

[sofresh]

All good advice thanks Sir I'll take it on board.I did say this was my mistake and am not blaming may be venting but not blaming.

Like you agreed before, it is a letdown

Let's wait and see if they deliver or if history repeats it's self.

[mkfotos.com]

I'll add two more options:

- get a big variable ND filter and some step-down rings for your L glass

and/or

- spend a a few hundred on several older, manual lenses, and an adapter or two for them; in the weeks/months of ownership, they won't depreciate much at all, because they've already leveled off, and (like me), you might find the build quality and manual controls a welcome change

[Barry_Green]

Yes, right now we don't have a choice... we gotta make do with what we've got. For me it's meant buying Lumix lenses and some CP's. For others with Nikon lenses they're making do with various adapters, and for Canon guys the Kipon has caused a bit of a stir. Apparently it's not good enough for deep f-stops, but at wide-open apparently it's okay (or at least that's what I think the folks have been saying)... so some combination of using the camera's ND filters, and fine adjustment with the Kipon, and maybe an ISO bump here or there, might be the patchover workaround necessary until the Birger delivers.

I know you're frustrated, and I can understand why, but ... with unreleased products, there's just no way to know. One thing we learned when I was in software development though -- our boss had a saying of "A late game is only late until it ships. A bad game is bad forever." So now, I take the attitude of that it'll ship when it ships, and if I have a job to do and whatever I'm waiting for isn't out yet, well, you just gotta make do with what you can get your hands on. Good luck, I hope you can make a workable interim solution!

[Barry_Green]

- spend a a few hundred on several older, manual lenses, and an adapter or two for them; in the weeks/months of ownership, they won't depreciate much at all, because they've already leveled off, and (like me), you might find the build quality and manual controls a welcome change
See, this I think is a great suggestion, because with ebay there's a worldwide market of lenses that you can buy cheaply and sell when you're done with them, and there's so many photographers who are always looking for glass, that the difference between what you pay and what you sell for is so minimal that it's almost like renting for free. Great suggestion.

[HarryJoaquin]

Barry mentioned that this thread was worth giving a look. There are some very passionate people here. We have an exciting product coming. We take all of the passion that is being expressed here as a sign of that. It is clear that we (here at Birger) aren't the only ones excited about this product. But let's try to keep this civil. Engineering and manufacturing projects do have adjustments in schedule from time to time. It is a fact of life.

For the past three years, 100% of Birger's revenue has come from the manufacture and sale of motion control systems for camera lenses. For the past three years, this has come to be all we do. And we do it well.

Aside from building and shipping our current products, getting the AF100 product finished and shipping is our only priority. You have my word on that. You will not find us hanging out on the boards talking about our products, or discussing the details of what necessitated the schedule change. My last post on this forum was many months ago, and my next may be equally far off.

Sit tight. Go to the back up plan if you need to. The product is coming.


I understand that delays can occur, I shall stick to using manual lenses for now.

Is there a way to pre-order both the mount and wireless remote system?

I would love a guarantee I will get it as soon as you guys start shipoing?

All the best and thanks,

Harry

[cckid]

Hi,

can someone post some link on what are the currently available options of putting canon ef lenses on the af-100 camera...as it seems that birger will have a huge delay...I was trying to find some working options even if it is not ideal...thanks

[wbrock001]

The kipon is probably your best option for now.

[cckid]

Hi,

I was just searching their official kipon site and I just couldn't find the right apdapter to fit canon ef to micro 4/3....could you point me where I can the right adapter from kipon...and what is the deal with this adapter...what are the advantages disadvantages...thanks for the input

[biginvegas]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-EOS-EF-Lens-Micro-4-3-M43-Adaptor-GF1-EP2-EPL1-/110625483746?pt=UK_Photography_CameraLenses_Lens_c aps_hoods_adaptors_ET&hash=item19c1caebe2

I do believe this is the adapter cckid

[Osslund]

My test of the Kipon (http://vimeo.com/17821964)

[cckid]

Hi,

thanks for the links... this is just the adapter that I have been looking for...I have just watched the video test of the kipon and it is very interesting...I see the majority part of tests were made with a full open f-stop...when you start closing the kippon blades - you get a certain amount of vigneting...on some lenses more and some less....is there any way to set the f-stop aperture on the canon lense before putting it on a kipon adapter...for example using a canon 5d camera - setting the f stop for expample f4...unmounting the lense...puting it on a kipon...adn from there on regulate the quantity of the light with kipon, nd filters, shutter speeds, iso and similar....would that kind of approach be possible?

[wbrock001]

Yes, that is what folks have done, but obviously it is an awkward compromise...but it does work until the Birger is available. What folks do is set the aperture, press and hold the aperture preview button, remove the lens which maintains the aperture then mount it on the adapter.

[szimmer]

Yes, that is what folks have done, but obviously it is an awkward compromise...but it does work until the Birger is available. What folks do is set the aperture, press and hold the aperture preview button, remove the lens which maintains the aperture then mount it on the adapter.

Hello,

I just read your workflow. Is that workflow necessary for this adaptor too?

http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Adapter-Thirds-Olympus-Panasonic/dp/B003EAXT5G/ref=pd_cp_p_1

For my workflow, I set the lens to the lowest f-stop and removed the lens from my canon 7d. I never pressed the preview button on my canon 7D and then removed it. Is that part required for it to keep the correct aperture?

Any guidance would be appreciated. Thanks!

Simon
p.s.
My lenses are:

Canon EF 70 - 300 Lens
Canon EF 28 - 135 Lens

[Erik Naso]

The Kipton works best with f2.8 and and below. I tried it on my f4 L lenses and it vignettes very quickly. So if you have fast Canon lenses it will fill the gap until the next player comes to market with electronic control.

[wbrock001]

My understanding is that by just setting an aperture on the camera it does not actually set the aperture in the lens until you take a picture, at least for the instant the image is being taken, though if you are in video mode then it would probably set the aperture. So if in photo mode, then you need to press and hold aperture preview, if in video mode then you can probably just remove the lens at the aperture you desire. Anyone know better?

[szimmer]

My understanding is that by just setting an aperture on the camera it does not actually set the aperture in the lens until you take a picture, at least for the instant the image is being taken, though if you are in video mode then it would probably set the aperture. So if in photo mode, then you need to press and hold aperture preview, if in video mode then you can probably just remove the lens at the aperture you desire. Anyone know better?

Interesting. It would be great if someone could confirm this. I will test it out later.

Thanks for your help.

Good day!

Simon

[cckid]

Yes,

confirmation would be great...

[mcgeedigital]

That is correct. When using the Kipon adapter, you set the lens all the way open on your dslr, hit the aperture preview button, shut the camera off, then remove the lens, put it on your AF100 with the Kipon adapter.

[3hats]

Matt
I believe what you meant to say is " close your lens down to the desired aperture, then hit preview and remove" The lens is already open to it's maximum lens opening, so you would not put it on the dslr to open it up. Just to clarify.
bill

[Erik Naso]

From Birger website

"Sampling to dealers and "friends & family" early March. Ships in volume April 2011. MSRP $700 for the adapter"

[Rick Burnett]

I like the part about "signing up for additional announcements" as I've signed up twice and still have never received ANY announcements. Good thing I subscribed to this thread long ago! :)

[Erik Naso]

I like the part about "signing up for additional announcements" as I've signed up twice and still have never received ANY announcements. Good thing I subscribed to this thread long ago! :)
Yup. Same here.

[sofresh]

I'm sure it would be on here but has anyone heard anything?
i 've been using the kipon mount and its not that bad but would really like to be on birgers friends and family list,

who do i have to marry:)

[chervas]

I'm sure it would be on here but has anyone heard anything?
i 've been using the kipon mount and its not that bad but would really like to be on birgers friends and family list,

who do i have to marry:)
Well, according to their last correspondence, it is clearly pointed out that they are only a couple of ugly cousin available for marriage and you cannot specify sex preference. Furthermore they warn, just like the adapter, it will be a beta version marriage.

[mr bill]

Just to double check - in a photo mode on my canon 60D, I would set the aperture I wanted. Then hit the aperture preview button, turn off camera and remove lens, then fit to Gh13 and kipon adapter?

[olof]

Just to double check - in a photo mode on my canon 60D, I would set the aperture I wanted. Then hit the aperture preview button, turn off camera and remove lens, then fit to Gh13 and kipon adapter?

I don't turn the camera off. I just set the aperture, then hit the aperture preview button and unmount the lens, holding the preview button in. It works very well on the 5DmkII and the 7D and I am sure it works great on the 60D or any other EOS.

I am looking forward to the Birger though.

[Erik Naso]

I want to vent for a second and I promise I wont go their again but m4/3 adapters with iris control are way to expensive for what they are. I'm not knocking the Birger EOS since what they are doing is really amazing adapting all the electronics of the Canon to work with the AF-100. Its with the other companys that are charging hundreds for plan and simple a mount to use your lenses on the AF-100. Really? $400.00 just to get a Nikon with iris to work? Really? A good lens cost that much and the engineering that goes into a lens is way larger than a mount with two ends. OK I'm done go about your biz.
Ahh. Much better now. Peace.

[bgundu]

You can buy them for $30 too. I have both a cheapie and a $400 one. I definitely like the more expensive one. They're expensive because there isn't a huge market for them at the moment and they are not mass produced. Look at it like any other lens, they all do the same thing, except that last 20% in better quality is where you pay a premium.


I want to vent for a second and I promise I wont go their again but m4/3 adapters with iris control are way to expensive for what they are. I'm not knocking the Birger EOS since what they are doing is really amazing adapting all the electronics of the Canon to work with the AF-100. Its with the other companys that are charging hundreds for plan and simple a mount to use your lenses on the AF-100. Really? $400.00 just to get a Nikon with iris to work? Really? A good lens cost that much and the engineering that goes into a lens is way larger than a mount with two ends. OK I'm done go about your biz.
Ahh. Much better now. Peace.

[wbrock001]

I too have a cheapy and a $400 one and have to say the $400 is superior in every way...and will last forever...while I would not trust my $1500 lenses to be connected to a $30 adapter. If you do just that, then good luck and I hope you don't one day regret it. Also, my cheapy adapter does not have a tight fit on the lenses, there is play...hence my distrust!

I too think the birger is really cool and hopefully they'll come out with a comparable nikon compatible model someday, because I was originally going with canon, but then realized you need a $700 adapter just to be able to use the iris, while nikon has its little lever. So if I get some other brand or new model of camera, I could not use the canon glass' iris unless there were electronics...and with nikon it is then much easier to get a usable adapter out.

[Rick Burnett]

Heh, well I bought a $30 dumb mount on eBay and it is solid as a rock. I am very impressed with the quality. Still cannot wait for the Birger, but this is holding me over :)

[wbrock001]

You are very lucky then, you got a good one...I didn't.

[Rick Burnett]

I saw a nikon one that was also cheap someone else had and MAN was it loose. I tried it on my AF100 and his GH2, so I know what you mean. Also, the aperture control on his was NOT tight at all, so I can definitely understand the fear! I don't have to shoot right now, so I can wait for the Birger before any big projects.

[wbrock001]

I guess it's luck of the draw then with the cheap ones. I can't wait to see what the birger can really do, but for me, investing in canon glass isn't ideal because of their limitations.

[Rick Burnett]

Limitations? I'm not seeing any limitations in my Canon glass once the Birger ships. In fact, I find m4/3 glass to be limiting. See, I can use my EOS lenses on my 7D and AF100, whereas if I had any m4/3 lenses, I could only use it on the AF100. Plus, if I ever get to the point I can actually afford an Epic-S from my work, the Canon lenses can work there too. To me, it's win win which is why I've only invested in EOS glass.

[sofresh]

Same boat:(

hope it doesn't sink

[wbrock001]

Limitation to me is the electronic iris. To use canon on any other platform where you want basic iris control requires electronics, so I felt nikon was a better way to go for better longterm interchangeable use. Plus the current nikon mm range that I want is more current, not that canon won't flip flop that really soon but the manual iris control for all their lenses was the straw that broke the canons back for me. Given that I'm starting from almost scratch so not previously invested in either. If I had all canon then I would be in that boat too for now. I'm not currently investing in any m4/3 lenses for the very reason they're stuck to that platform and they don't currently have enough optimized lenses to justify investment in them yet. Just my personal conclusion.

[derbrocks09]

Limitations? I'm not seeing any limitations in my Canon glass once the Birger ships. In fact, I find m4/3 glass to be limiting. See, I can use my EOS lenses on my 7D and AF100, whereas if I had any m4/3 lenses, I could only use it on the AF100. Plus, if I ever get to the point I can actually afford an Epic-S from my work, the Canon lenses can work there too. To me, it's win win which is why I've only invested in EOS glass.

Exactly!

Plus who knows what Canon is going to come out with in the next few years. The Birger and the native Canon mount on the Epic really makes Canon glass the best choice IMO.

[cckid]

Limitations? I'm not seeing any limitations in my Canon glass once the Birger ships. In fact, I find m4/3 glass to be limiting. See, I can use my EOS lenses on my 7D and AF100, whereas if I had any m4/3 lenses, I could only use it on the AF100. Plus, if I ever get to the point I can actually afford an Epic-S from my work, the Canon lenses can work there too. To me, it's win win which is why I've only invested in EOS glass.

same over here...investing in canon lenses and hopefully after paying of the af-101 I am going for an epic-s once it gets released...and still having my canon l series working normally

[Rick Burnett]

True on the Nikon, but I'd actually like all my lenses to be fully electronic as well. Until Birger makes a Nikon adapter, the EOS will be able to be remotely controlled while my AF100 is up on a crane. That is awesome to me. :) I do have 1 nikon lens, a 50mm F1.8 with manual aperture, although I wish it made a prettier picture :) Bought the $250 model and not happy with it.

[wbrock001]

Wow just saw the epic s is going to be $12k for the brain only. Oh and it looks like they have nikon mount too. Well this will be a very interesting NAB... Hopefully a lot more announcements of lenses to give us a better roadmap.

[szimmer]

Wow just saw the epic s is going to be $12k for the brain only. Oh and it looks like they have nikon mount too. Well this will be a very interesting NAB... Hopefully a lot more announcements of lenses to give us a better roadmap.

Is the 12k official? If so, where did you see that?

Simon

[Erik Naso]

Wow just saw the epic s is going to be $12k for the brain only. Oh and it looks like they have nikon mount too. Well this will be a very interesting NAB... Hopefully a lot more announcements of lenses to give us a better roadmap.
Great news now I spend 12K instead of $400.00 to get my lenses on a camera. :happy:

[wbrock001]

Just do a google search on red epic s. There is a page with an interview with the head honcho, while $12,000 isn't final, it's probably very close. I highly doubt that will drop to the original estimate of $7,000. The epic s took the slot of what was supposed to be full frame scarlet. They are thinking the fixed lens one will probably be $6000-7000. So anyway, nothing is touching the af100 on price/features yet!

[olof]

Just got this email, we are getting closer.

NEW AF-100 LENS CONTROL SYSTEM

Join Birger Engineering for an introduction of their new lens control system for EF mount lenses on the popular Panasonic AF-100 camera featuring both auto and manual iris control and continuous auto-focus for most Canon L-Series lenses.

Time: 10am to 12noon with Breakfast Wed March 2nd 2011. At RULE in Boson.

There usually is a video available soon after the event, I will post that link when it is up. Unfortunately I can't make this event.

[sofresh]

11 days until expected;) delivery according to website

http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/index.php?t=product/birger_mount_canon_ef_micro_43

still no new info on website or general news letter

[Barry_Green]

Just got off the phone with them. There are many developments that I can't talk about yet, but all should become crystal clear on Monday at NAB. However, he did say that I was authorized to tell people that the release date has now been moved to "late May."

[mkfotos.com]

the release date has now been moved to "late May."

Late May 2012? Awesome.

[dustylense]

Well than June can't come fast enough! June 1st is my B-day and all I want on that day is.......
By the way Barry, I bought the AF100 2 days ago and your book is VERY HELPFUL!

[David W. Jones]

The release will coincide with the Mayan end of the world for one last shot.

[sofresh]

Thanks for the update Barry.
all I need is the iris control, power for lenses and I would pay £500 for it today.

What other usable functions would you want to see released on Monday?

[mkfotos.com]

Thanks for the update Barry.
all I need is the iris control, power for lenses and I would pay £500 for it today.

What other usable functions would you want to see released on Monday?

Electronic focus (with programmable racking etc. a-la Magic Lantern), image stabilization, communication with the body for more complete metadata, etc.

[Barry_Green]

Thanks for the update Barry.
all I need is the iris control, power for lenses and I would pay £500 for it today.

What other usable functions would you want to see released on Monday?
From what I have heard, it is far beyond that. There was a demo video posted of the demo Erik did at RULE Boston which showed just how advanced this thing is...

[groveChuck]

the release date has now been moved to "late May."

http://www.smtexas.net/faculty/jackson/CAPPS61011/CAPPS6T2I/Reddy/Webpage/Images/homer-doh-squaregreen.jpg

[BerkeleyBob]

Barry-
I believe Erik was also using a Birger remote follow focus in that video. I don't know if it is the latest version of the Impero that is supposedly now back on track (after a complete recall from Asia and restart from scratch here in the states). Can you tell us if a Birger FF will be shown in Vegas?

[Barry_Green]

I don't know the answer to that now, but we should know it all by Monday morning.

[Jay A. Kelley]

The impero will not be used witih the new Birger Mounts...

[HarryJoaquin]

The impero will not be used witih the new Birger Mounts...


Really?!?!...that's very disappointing, do you know if a similar focus system will be released, wireless with programmable points etc....?

[Birger]

Monday morning is right around the corner... for those not attending NAB, Stephen Mick is scheduled to shoot an interview at show open... tough crowd. Booth # C12131 - come see the demos (yes demoS, plural) and our reel.

[HarryJoaquin]

When can we order? Pre-order? anything?! Im very happy to wait until its ready, I just want to place an order so Im sure to get it as soon as its available.

Sorry to ask you this on a forum Erik, but im getting no response through your website contact page.

Many thanks

harry@newbornproductions.tv

[TwinCitiesShooter]

It seems a similar scenario of delays and frustration occurred with Birger's Red adapter - http://indie4k.com/archives/92. I feel it's better to not give a release date, rather than to over-promise and then push it back twice (or more...). Now it's stated as late May, but we can't rely on that because of Birger's track record of pushing dates back. Obviously they're not the only company that encounters difficulties and pushes back release dates, but they seem to be on the bad side of the Bell curve on this issue, and it hurts consumer trust. If I made repeatedly inaccurate time predictions for my clients, I wouldn't have clients. Call me crazy to expect that kind of reliability from manufacturers.

[sofresh]

Agreed!

Don't worry Barry I'm not gonna start this one up again;)

BUT!!!

Only joking

[Taylor Rudd]

While you should never put stock in a product that doesn't exist on the shelves, this news is still a bit disheartening.

No doubt, this adapter will be feature packed. The video from the Boston demo revealed features I would have never dreamed of. But, it seems those amazing options are part of the delay. Remote follow focus and computer communication is awesome and will be important for some people. For the rest of us, though, simple electronic aperture control will suit us just fine.

[HarryJoaquin]

"The video from the Boston demo revealed features I would have never dreamed of. "

Is this video online?

[Bern Caughey]

"The video from the Boston demo revealed features I would have never dreamed of. "

Is this video online?

http://vimeo.com/20606441

[Rick Burnett]

"The video from the Boston demo revealed features I would have never dreamed of. "

Is this video online?

Which features? I'd rather hear a summary than watch it all. I also heard that Birger is going to do a Sony E-mount of this adapter as well. Being able to use my EF lenses on so many different cameras is such a nice thing.

[Bruce196]

I started watching it but gave up. Definitely a lesson in not letting people ask questions until the presentation has been made. The mount will open up a whole new world to us.

[sofresh]

http://www.dslrnewsshooter.com/2011/04/11/nab-2011-birger-engineering-demonstrates-working-eos-to-af100-and-nex-fs-100/

I want one so bad!

[Rick Burnett]

Thanks for posting that! Wow, I am really excited now. The follow focus price is nice as well. I'm also glad to see the FS100 version so quickly as well.

[Bern Caughey]

If I followed the presentation at RULE correctly it seems Birger believes they can make varifocal zooms perform as parfocals. I'm sold & have pre-ordered two.

[TwinCitiesShooter]

Pre-ordered from where?

[Bern Caughey]

Pre-ordered from where?

Rule (where the Boston presentation took place), & Abel Cine Tech, are both taking pre-orders.

[Pelican]

Rule (where the Boston presentation took place), & Abel Cine Tech, are both taking pre-orders.

I can't find the pre-order on Able Cine's site?

[Bern Caughey]

I can't find the pre-order on Able Cine's site?

I don't think it's on either site. You need to call, or email, them.

Abel/LA has had some interest from a number of their clients, & will generate an invoice, while Rule requires a 10% deposit. Seems Birger plans on releasing 1000 units initially, so stock shouldn't be too hard to find, but they have a close working relationship with Rule.

-Bern

[SeaMusic]

Hey ERIK talked with you at NAB, great product so the big question. Should I order the AF100 now or wait. My L Glass would like a new home. Will you ship in April?

[Ryan-Guy]

Hey ERIK talked with you at NAB, great product so the big question. Should I order the AF100 now or wait. My L Glass would like a new home. Will you ship in April?

Second that

[mkfotos.com]

Hey ERIK talked with you at NAB, great product so the big question. Should I order the AF100 now or wait. My L Glass would like a new home. Will you ship in April?


Second that

It's already been made clear that "late May" will be the soonest we'll see these.

[stevedocmaker]

I know it's been said already, but these guys are really missing the boat by not releasing a "light" version that just handles focus and iris. (This is assuming that this adapter lets the camera control these, something not entirely clear from the demo I saw). I can't imagine that the tiny percentage of AF100 users who want all the remote and computer controls is worth delaying the release of this product for months.

The funny thing to me about this is that the Birger guy says how much the 5D and 7D surprised people. He obviously doesn't get that most people don't need to a rig that emulates a $100,000 system to be happy, just one that produces a great image with basic controls. My guess is that being a tech guy he can't absorb this fact.

[Birger]

these guys are really missing the boat by not releasing a "light" version that just handles focus and iris. (This is assuming that this adapter lets the camera control these, something not entirely clear from the demo I saw). My guess is that being a tech guy he can't absorb this fact.

The product that you describe is exactly what we will ship first.

We are choosing not show the camera integration until it meets my standards. As of NAB it had not yet reached that level. The computer integration is free, and has been complete for many years! On a most basic level, this is necessary for software upgrades by end customers. Anyone would purchase a product like this that does not support software upgrades by end customers - is seriously short sighted. We don't need software updates on the lens side like we once did, as we know we are compatible with ALL of the lenses ever manufactured by Canon - numbering more than 140 at last count. But, the micro-fourthirds and sony e-mount protocols are newer to us - so we feel software updateability is still important. Birger will never ship a product that does not allow for field upgrade. Never.

The basic product allows for tight integration with the camera, and expansion via the side port at a later date. Once this is ready, we will ship. We announced last week, at NAB, that this would be late May. Any second guessing of our motives, market understanding or anything else is just silly. We are, and will continue to hold things relatively tight until we release. When footage starts showing up on the web shot with the system, using our preproduction adapters and the concept version of our focus knobs - you will know that we are shipping adapters in a matter of weeks. And, we already know who is shooting this footage for us, so if you have to ask... assume the answer is no.

The knobs will be an accessory, and available this summer. We showed a concept version at NAB last week, as an introduction to the complete system, and the capabilities that it offers. Once the adapters for the AF100 are shipping we will discuss this module in more detail.

You will not see a quickly thrown together release from Birger. We will not ship a product, and then offer the "right" version of that product just a few months later. Hang tight, and allow us to get our work done. I promise, you will not be disappointed with the functionality and value that we deliver.

[Rick Burnett]

The product that you describe is exactly what we will ship first.

We are choosing not show the camera integration until it meets my standards. As of NAB it had not yet reached that level. The computer integration is free, and has been complete for many years! On a most basic level, this is necessary for software upgrades by end customers. Anyone would purchase a product like this that does not support software upgrades by end customers - is seriously short sighted. We don't need software updates on the lens side like we once did, as we know we are compatible with ALL of the lenses ever manufactured by Canon - numbering more than 140 at last count. But, the micro-fourthirds and sony e-mount protocols are newer to us - so we feel software updateability is still important. Birger will never ship a product that does not allow for field upgrade. Never.

The basic product allows for tight integration with the camera, and expansion via the side port at a later date. Once this is ready, we will ship. We announced last week, at NAB, that this would be late May. Any second guessing of our motives, market understanding or anything else is just silly. We are, and will continue to hold things relatively tight until we release. When footage starts showing up on the web shot with the system, using our preproduction adapters and the concept version of our focus knobs - you will know that we are shipping adapters in a matter of weeks. And, we already know who is shooting this footage for us, so if you have to ask... assume the answer is no.

The knobs will be an accessory, and available this summer. We showed a concept version at NAB last week, as an introduction to the complete system, and the capabilities that it offers. Once the adapters for the AF100 are shipping we will discuss this module in more detail.

You will not see a quickly thrown together release from Birger. We will not ship a product, and then offer the "right" version of that product just a few months later. Hang tight, and allow us to get our work done. I promise, you will not be disappointed with the functionality and value that we deliver.

One thing I didn't see anyone ask, is the Emount version being released the same time as the m4/3 mount? Second, is the adapter moduler? Could you possibly offer mount changes for the same front, or would you need to buy both mounts seperate? (I ask because I have an AF100, and I want to pick up an FS100 as well).

Thanks!

[Birger]

One thing I didn't see anyone ask, is the Emount version being released the same time as the m4/3 mount? Second, is the adapter moduler? Could you possibly offer mount changes for the same front, or would you need to buy both mounts seperate? (I ask because I have an AF100, and I want to pick up an FS100 as well).

E-mount will release a few weeks to a few months after uFT. I only first saw the NXCAM on 23 March - the day the press embargo was lifted. It was a small miracle that we were able to do this demo at NAB. You should al thank Juan Martinez at Sony for driving this. When he asked if we could have that demo ready by NAB... I asked, NAB 2012, right?

The products are modular, but not at the level that you suggest. All accessories (knobs, radios, zoom motors) will work with all mounts that have an accessory port. But, all lens adapters are camera type (i.e. e-mount or microFT) specific, AND lens type (i.e. Canon EF, or Sony Alpha) specific. There is enough variation in the electrical, software and mechanical designs between all of these interfaces, that we chose to break it out this way. There was a time (mind you, when our products cost twice as much as the soon to be released) when we tried to be modular at a finer level than this, but we came to learn that enough of the customer base did careless things with screwdrivers, that we weren''t able to support that level of modularity.

Going to sneak back away from DVXuser for awhile. There is a "general news" email announcment due out from us in the next day or two. Still just catching our breath after a wildly successful NAB.

[Rick Burnett]

Thanks Erik for the information. I totally understand on the modularity issues, I just wanted to make sure I understood the product capabilities. I cannot wait to own one :)

Rick

[Evro]

Any word on a Nikon adaptor?

[Barry_Green]

Not until the Canon one is done and released to the market.

[Evro]

Not until the Canon one is done and released to the market.
Good to know there's hope for the rest of us :)

[groveChuck]

We will not ship a product, and then offer the "right" version of that product just a few months later. Hang tight, and allow us to get our work done. I promise, you will not be disappointed with the functionality and value that we deliver.

I don't think that's asking too much, is it? :huh:

[Tata Steva]

E-mount will release a few weeks to a few months after uFT. I only first saw the NXCAM on 23 March - the day the press embargo was lifted. It was a small miracle that we were able to do this demo at NAB. You should al thank Juan Martinez at Sony for driving this. When he asked if we could have that demo ready by NAB... I asked, NAB 2012, right?

The products are modular, but not at the level that you suggest. All accessories (knobs, radios, zoom motors) will work with all mounts that have an accessory port. But, all lens adapters are camera type (i.e. e-mount or microFT) specific, AND lens type (i.e. Canon EF, or Sony Alpha) specific. There is enough variation in the electrical, software and mechanical designs between all of these interfaces, that we chose to break it out this way. There was a time (mind you, when our products cost twice as much as the soon to be released) when we tried to be modular at a finer level than this, but we came to learn that enough of the customer base did careless things with screwdrivers, that we weren''t able to support that level of modularity.

Going to sneak back away from DVXuser for awhile. There is a "general news" email announcment due out from us in the next day or two. Still just catching our breath after a wildly successful NAB.



Since nobody is picking up my question over at F3 forum, I had to ask here: any news about F3 Birger adapter???

[Jesse Brauning]

On another note,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CwxRbH35R8

[Jay A. Kelley]

Isn't this called the BIRGER thread? I don't think that looks like a birger mount to me.. And the two are NOT comparible.

Jay

[Boncrek]

Isn't this called the BIRGER thread? I don't think that looks like a birger mount to me.. And the two are NOT comparible.

Jay

Well I benefitted from that post.
I would say they are comparable as they attempt to give the end-user control of canon lenses on MFT cameras.
Sure they are different levels of control but control nonetheless.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Then let's make a new thread that FOCUSES on the product that he's talking about.. I think the owner of Birger is posting on here cause the thread is focusing on his product. I cannot speak for him, but I know I woudl be a lot less inclined to post if I was suddenly being thrown in with a bunch of competition all in the same thread.

I think the product he posted about may have some merit to some, but let's give that product another thread and not muddy up the waters is all I'm sayin.

Jay

[ScottNelson]

I think the owner of Birger is posting on here cause the thread is focusing on his product. I cannot speak for him, but I know I woudl be a lot less inclined to post if I was suddenly being thrown in with a bunch of competition all in the same thread. Jay

No need to defend Erik, Jay.

Birger has already been a lot less inclined to post here for the last six months and then only to explain another delay. Hey, they don't even update their own website. Just sayin.

I for one welcome the Redock post by Jesse Brauning and find it very relevant and beneficial. This may have started as a Birger thread but it has morphed into an EF lens thread for the many AF100 owners with no where to turn to utilize their Canon lenses. We've talked very openly about the Kipon alternative with no objection.

Sure, the Birger will probably be superior to others - I've already requested one from my dealer - but this is a thread for discussion and I see no reason to complain about informative content and alternatives.

BTW, there already is a separate thread. http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?246538-Redrock-Micro-MFT-Canon-EF-adapter

Regards,
Scott

[sofresh]

The end of may is closing in, I 've got my fingers crossed that birger will finally deliver:)

[Rick Burnett]

I think we all benefit from sharing as much information as possible. This is about users helping each other and I find it useful when people provide additional solutions that we all may be interested in. I personally will be going for the Birger because I want all that it gives, but even early on people have said (some) that the price point was beyond what they wanted. Now, people might be giving multiple solutions. The best part, is overall, people *know* what is out there when making a decision to buy.

[Postfade]

Anychance that Birger could give us an update of when it's now likely to be available?
I have one on order here in the UK from CVP. They now have an 'expected delivery date' of early July on their website!

http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/index.php?t=category/Birger

[derbrocks09]

" They now have an 'expected delivery date' of early July on their website!"


OMG. That really stinks if true. It is frustrating having to use inferior glass just to get by until the Birger Mount ships. I love my Canon glass but this is starting to get silly. One delay after another it seems. I sure hope this is a mistake and they ship in a week or two.

Frustrating! Ugh

[jmarkham]

I just checked Birger's main page and it still says " The EF to AF100 adapter ships late May 2011 "..

[Rick Burnett]

It definitely says May 2011, I just checked as well.

[Bern Caughey]

It definitely says May 2011, I just checked as well.

I spoke to Rule Camera a few days ago, & they believed Birger was still on track for May delivery.

-Bern