Birger Mount

[Erik Naso]

I believe Erik knows Birger made a mistake with a release date and he has since retracted it. RED and Red Rock Micro failed with this same issue so please just let it be. I'm one of the Red Rock matte box victims. I have it and like it. I also waited way to long for a camera update because of the 3K for 3K RED fiasco. I get it. I learned a lesson. I want this as much as anybody but this constant whining wont get you the adapter any quicker so move forward and use the lenses you have and when its ready buy it.
Peace.

[dustylense]

When it comes it comes. Move on. If Birger ever ships the adapter, GREAT! Until then use your camera with whats available. Who knows, maybe large sensor 4k will be in your hands before you even get to enjoy the birger mount?

[Birger]

Speaking of "vaporware" I emailed them on July 29th and did get a reply from Erik Widing himself on August 8th. Here is what I wrote to Birger:

Sure you get this a lot but, WHEN WILL THE EOS ADAPTER BE AVAILABLE?

This is something I am highly interested in as are several other shooters. However, over the last few years we shooters have been cruelly taunted with suggested releases of vaporware.

I understand there are changes in designs and manufacturing and other factors but telling us the mount will be shipping by May then failing to deliver and not producing any information regarding when it will be available is just not cool.

You let the cat out of the bag by publicly displaying the product then announcing a delivery date. The least you could do is inform the many shooters who are waiting on you to give you their money what the hold up is and give us a REALISTIC date when we can get our hands on one.

I hope you will give us an update. Many of us can deal with waiting as long as we know why we are waiting and how long the wait will be.


He replied with:

I thank you for sharing your opinion. But, until we are ready to announce a firm ship date, we will not offer any projected schedule. We have not announced the ship dates or dealers yet. To receive the updates, please segn up for the "general news" email list on birger.com.

It is amusing to me that my email to you has ended up here on DVXuser. I do give you great credit for posting your email that prompted it. I've received a couple of these in the past few weeks, with a similar tone, and frankly "thanks for sharing your opinion" is the only response I am going to offer. Maybe this is where I should stop this post... but I haven't been here in awhile...

We publicly withdrew the announced ship date. I've stated that previously here on dvxuser, and emailed over 1500 people on our news list to state the same. So having now withdrawn the date, there is no ship date that has been announced. My email to you really does encapsulate it quite completely. After eleven years in business we still make a few rooky mistakes. Probably still have one or two left in us before we get everything done. No good reason to give visibility into all of the inner workings here at Birger. The voyeuristic reality-tv-esque thing that we did with the REDone development, is not the way I am going to run my business. This isn't American Choppers or the Jersey Shore... at least it isn't any more. I will say that the wonderful support we have received from Panasonic and Sony, ranging from running demos for potential customers, to extended equipment loans, has made this situation significantly different than the last one. Thanks Jan and Juan.

As I have said before, my crystal ball has not been so good on this program. I just do not have the information to give an accurate date right now. There are a few details left. Everything will go very fast once these issues are resolved, and I will announce a short ship date, and we will meet it. Period. No email like the one sent me is going to impact the decision to move forward as we are. It offers a sixty second reminder that people have a great many un-constructive ways to deal with disappointment. We are moving forward as fast as we can, given the constraints within which I and Birger are able to operate. If that last sentence is not understood, there really is no point in my even popping my head up here as often as I do.

On the topic of the other cameras... this is a platform-based product, intended to be compatible with many different cameras. Each of the cameras has a different set of complexities. The F3 talks the same protocol as the REDone - an hour after the F3 showed up here for the first time, we had it talking to the lens mount. Admittedly this was with a frankenstein setup, but we were displaying f-stops on the viewfinder powering the lens mount externally. Power analysis, finding the achilles heel of the camera and the older lens mount platform, took another hour or two... The FS100 and AF100 talk protocols that are different than ones we had previously implemented and had to be reverse engineered. Because of power issues with each of the mentioned cameras, and some of the complexities of communication with the AF100/FS100, we have to base the products for these cameras on this new platform that we are releasing very soon, not the one we have been shipping for many years. We made initial estimates to ship based on being able to use the existing platform. We will continue to offer demos on lots of different cameras. This work moves the entire platform forward, and does not move back the ship date for the AF100. Pedal to the floor engineering resource is not the gating factor right now. We still expect the AF100 to be the first on the new platform to ship.

I want to remind everybody of the fact that there is no one more motivated than me to get this out. Birger has not taken a single penny from any distributor, reseller or end user yet... and will not until we are ready to announce the ship date. I don't make any money until this ships. But I do still continue spending quite a bit moving it closer to the finish line. The complaining is not affecting anything but my mood, as we reach the home stretch. It isn't making it go any faster or any slower. Cut a guy a break?

[Rick Burnett]

Erik, I just wanted to say thanks for all the hard work. From one engineer to another. :)

[Greg Smith]

Erik, as another sometime engineer and entrepreneur, thanks. You are doing this in a careful and responsible way, and as much as I am looking forward to the product, I understand what you are up against and the realities of R&D. I will continue to be patient. My AF100 and lenses will still be here.

Occasional updates here, like this one, will go a long way toward keeping the potential users satisfied, I think.

- Greg

[Barry_Green]

I want to remind everybody of the fact that there is no one more motivated than me to get this out. Birger has not taken a single penny from any distributor, reseller or end user yet... and will not until we are ready to announce the ship date. I don't make any money until this ships. But I do still continue spending quite a bit moving it closer to the finish line. The complaining is not affecting anything but my mood, as we reach the home stretch. It isn't making it go any faster or any slower. Cut a guy a break?

Quoted for emphasis.

Good luck to you, Erik. Thanks for putting in the work and we all look forward to when this much-anticipated product ships.

[groveChuck]

And I'll emphasize this one.

As I have said before, my crystal ball has not been so good on this program. I just do not have the information to give an accurate date right now. There are a few details left. Everything will go very fast once these issues are resolved, and I will announce a short ship date, and we will meet it. Period.

No email like the one sent me is going to impact the decision to move forward as we are. It offers a sixty second reminder that people have a great many un-constructive ways to deal with disappointment.

We are moving forward as fast as we can, given the constraints within which I and Birger are able to operate. If that last sentence is not understood, there really is no point in my even popping my head up here as often as I do.
Thanks for popping your head in, Erik, and good luck on the home stretch :beer:
From a former (uh... HO electric train) engineer

[mcgeedigital]

One more reason i will never even try to bring to market any camera related products these days.

People commenting and complaining about delays who have no idea the r&d, setup, setbacks, and other costs of doing business in manufacturing highly technical pieces of camera gear.

Much easier to sit in your living room and bitch about it I guess.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Good luck Erik

Jay

[jmarkham]

I wouldn't get too bummed .. you're dealing with a bunch of people that want your product really bad.
Pent up demand vs. Yawn ... you're on the right side of that situation.

If it comes out and is awesome .. all will be forgiven ..

Thanks
jeff

[SPZ]

I wouldn't get too bummed .. you're dealing with a bunch of people that want your product really bad.
Pent up demand vs. Yawn ... you're on the right side of that situation.

If it comes out and is awesome .. all will be forgiven ..

Thanks
jeff

Agree. People are anxious to get your product, Birger Engineering. Its, above all, very good news. Glad you took the time to write to us over here. Some times, that is all people need, a word saying the project is alive. You have to understand that here at DVXUSER we've experienced - not only once but more- promising and eagerly desired products and their development teams coming here on the forum, showing and sharing their enthusiasm, promising dates, breakthroughs in development, then suddenly going silent and, after a couple of months, disappearing or never making them or putting them in the market. A few of them come to mind which I do not want to say since some of the makers went on to make some good products, but you get the idea.

As a future F3 owner as well as someone who owns about 15k worth of Canon EOS lenses, hearing you say that you have a mount speaking with the camera is great news indeed. I hope you can bring this product out as soon as possible. However, if when I purchase the F3 your mount is not available, I'll have to look into purchasing at least some alternative glass to make my system work for me. I hope that when the Birger mount comes out it really does what it promises to do, and does it well! For the F3, I would really love to have the Excellent EOS IS working. Make it happen!

[Bern Caughey]

Erik,

Thanks for continuing to participate in this tread even when some of the posts are toxic. I've left my deposit in place with one of your distributers, & eagerly await your product's release.

Best,
Bern

[Birger]

Started a twitter feed, so I can better participate in the conversation, and have a central "go-to" location for my comments to be found. There will be a little more behind the scenes as we move through the next steps. I don't plan to post all the time. I won't let it go in a "reality tv" direction... twitter is where I will post first.

www.twitter.com/ErikBirger (http://www.twitter.com/ErikBirger)

[SPZ]

Erik, so F3 mount is coming first on the SOny side? That's great news!! This one single news made me immediately look back to the F3. I need a camera for Mid November. I hope to have your mount for it. Great news indeed!

[groveChuck]

Erik- will you still be sending emails to those who registered on your site?

[Birger]

Erik- will you still be sending emails to those who registered on your site?

Yes, that is still the plan.

[chervas]

I have never got an email from you or your company or Abel's, even do I have registered in your web site months and months ago and Abel has me in their orderring list. If fact, if it was not for this wonderful forum, I would have no idea were does your product development stands.

[Birger]

Last "general news" email went out 22 May. Next one will go out prior to IBC.

[sofresh]

looks a little big but mtf are known for getting products out the door!!
http://propic.com/2qr (http://propic.com/2qr)

[philip bloom]

Here we go Suresh. A whole blog post on it. http://philipbloom.net/2011/09/09/ibc-2011-new-canon-ef-mount-that-controls-iris-for-f3-fs100-and-af100101/

MTF are as you say, not a company who are idle. This will be out when they say so...It's not as big as you thing. That pic is deceptive.

[sofresh]

:cheesy:

looks GREAT!!!!!!!!

[philip bloom]

:cheesy:

looks GREAT!!!!!!!!

if you had come Suresh I could have given you an AF one :)

[derbrocks09]

Does it control focus as well or just the f stop?

[philip bloom]

just f stop

[eagle_eye]

:nads:Nothing wrong with a little competition!

[dconstruct]

Forgive me if this isn't in the right post, but I've been following this for awhile and I feel like this information should also be included.

I've got the AF100 and a set of Zeiss ZE lenses. Does anyone have any experience as to whether or not the external Birger Follow Focus will support an accurate focus pull on a lens with no built-in motor? Or, will I need to go with an external torque motor system for a similar result?

Thanks!

[eagle_eye]

Ok, so it's not direct competition yet, but it is encouraging news for those of us vested in Canon glass and the AF100. It is great to see another 3rd party moving into the market. thanks for the heads up Philip.

[filmfan222]

id have to imagine the birger will have no way to interface with non-computer, non-electronic lenses. It is first and foremost a way to talk to a lense from the panasonic body, and as an added bonus send focus rotation data to the built in EOS motor, much like a canon body would.

[Rick Burnett]

Unless the mount can talk to a Birger supplied motor that controls the lenses much as a follow focus would. It's definitely possible.

[filmfan222]

Had to ask Rule for my deposit back today :/

I need to put the money elsewhere unfortunately. Just wanted to say Rule was very professional about it, and quick.

I hope it works out for Erik, met him at NAB, the prototype was very cool and I think it will be a great piece of kit when it's released.

Again, +1 for Rule.

[sofresh]

another little video for the mtf
http://www.cinema5d.com/news/

[eagle_eye]

"With all this announcing forthcoming announcements going on, I would like to announce that we too will be announcing an announcement shortly"
-Erik Widding via Twitter

Hope this is about the release we've been waiting for...

[mkfotos.com]

"With all this announcing forthcoming announcements going on, I would like to announce that we too will be announcing an announcement shortly"
-Erik Widding via Twitter

Hope this is about the release we've been waiting for...

He's clearly being sarcastic... in the meantime, it appears the Redrock is shipping...

[eagle_eye]

If I had so much riding on a product that was bogged down in production, I'd be really careful with sarcasm. Maybe you are right, but only Erik can settle that. It wouldn't really be the brightest shiniest moment in product promotion history if he was joking, but I choose to hope he was not. Anyways, I diverge from the subject of this thread. All I can say, is that I can still hope that production of the mount is around the corner.

[aguia]

People as old as I am might remember the SNL gag where Chevy Chase on "weekend update" would announce dead pan (for a year or more after the fact) "Spanish dictator Francisco Franco . . .is still dead".

[chervas]

He's clearly being sarcastic... in the meantime, it appears the Redrock is shipping...
What are the basic differences between these two products?
Are differences large enough to continue waiting for Erik "to announce an announcement" if Redrock already has a product in the market?
I just want to use my L glass without the Kipon.

[Rick Burnett]

With the Birger you can power the Iris change from the camera and not need an additional battery, you can control and see information about the Iris with the camera controls and display, and you can use the remote port on the camera to control this as well (like if you need remote with your camera up on a crane).

Also, if I recall correctly, there are some future devices for remote control of the birger mount as well that will be optional.

The advantage of the RedRock is you can buy it now!!

[dcloud]

"On 27 September, we will send out dealer package, open for dealer orders, and announce ship dates for AF100, F3, FS100 and Focus Wheel."
"Ship dates for AF100, F3 and Focus Wheel will be spread through Oct/Nov. FS100 early Dec. More detailed info on Tuesday. Please share."

[chervas]

"On 27 September, we will send out dealer package, open for dealer orders, and announce ship dates for AF100, F3, FS100 and Focus Wheel."
"Ship dates for AF100, F3 and Focus Wheel will be spread through Oct/Nov. FS100 early Dec. More detailed info on Tuesday. Please share."
Who is announcing this, Erik?

[dcloud]

yes from twitter

[chervas]

Yes, I do recalled the focus remote control from the Rule video. I also recalled an estimated price of well over $800, but probably worth it if you can monitor your F-stops in the camera, no dangling batt and cable and you could add a remote focus controller.

[mkfotos.com]

I also recalled an estimated price of well over $800

Huh? Hope not. The one constant besides delays has been the $750 MSRP.

[chervas]

Actually they are quoting $700 MSRP, even better.
Now, are we to be contact by the dealers if they have you in a waiting list?

[mkfotos.com]

Actually they are quoting $700 MSRP, even better.
Now, are we to be contact by the dealers if they have you in a waiting list?

Yeah, memory's a little fuzzy, it's been, uhh, nine or so months.

[eagle_eye]

Looks like you were clearly wrong, mkphotos.

[sofresh]

Believe it when I see it!Hopefully that will be very very soon:)

[mkfotos.com]

Looks like you were clearly wrong, mkphotos.

You have a very different interpretation of the tweet.

I'd like to make an announcement that soon I'll make an annoucement that my user name is mkfotos.com, not "mkphotos". Get it? Got it? Good.

[eagle_eye]

Got it. Just admit when you are wrong. Sit on your a**. I'm buying a Birger Mount.

[ScottNelson]

Anyone else notice this post by Erik on Twitter? Good news!

http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1508793536/IMG_1536crop_normal.JPG
ErikBirger (http://twitter.com/#!/ErikBirger) Erik Widding



Ship dates for AF100, F3 and Focus Wheel will be spread through Oct/Nov. FS100 early Dec. More detailed info on Tuesday. Please share.



http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1508793536/IMG_1536crop_normal.JPG
ErikBirger (http://twitter.com/#!/ErikBirger) Erik Widding



On 27 September, we will send out dealer package, open for dealer orders, and announce ship dates for AF100, F3, FS100 and Focus Wheel.

[sofresh]

If canon was to announce a s35 eos mount video camera on the 3rd, would you still buy the mount or wait?

[Erik Naso]

If canon was to announce a s35 eos mount video camera on the 3rd, would you still buy the mount or wait? Oh smack. Your killing me. I might have to rob a bank soon. Anyone have a ski mask I can borrow?

[aguia]

If canon was to announce a s35 eos mount video camera on the 3rd, would you still buy the mount or wait?

. . .and doesn't it seem a little coincidental that everyone is finally coming to market with their Canon EF mount adapters just as Canon announces its EF mount video camera (unless they are just introducing a new line of vacuum cleaners on November 3rd in Hollywood).

[sofresh]

http://wideopencamera.com/cameras/new-canon-super-35-video-camera-

Has the birger mount lost its thunder or are people going to be loyal to the af100?

I think I'm going to wait and see what canon and red release. rather get the real deal over an adaptor, I've waited this long;(

[Erik Naso]

If it doesn't act like a true Digital Cinema Camera i'm not interested. s35 isn't that much bigger than MFT but the EOS mount would be sweet. I think this Canon s35 camera is not going to be in the same price range as the AF-100. But who knows its fun to speculate!

[dwiener]

. . .and doesn't it seem a little coincidental that everyone is finally coming to market with their Canon EF mount adapters just as Canon announces its EF mount video camera (unless they are just introducing a new line of vacuum cleaners on November 3rd in Hollywood).

I have heard that they are dropping the price of the 5D to $1995, so a replacement model must be coming soon.

[little bobby]

I think this Canon s35 camera is not going to be in the same price range as the AF-100. But who knows its fun to speculate!

When has Canon ever competitively priced their cameras? I was shocked at the sticker price of all the cameras they were showing at NAB. They're very proud of them apparently.

[Bern Caughey]

If canon was to announce a s35 eos mount video camera on the 3rd, would you still buy the mount...

Absolutely!

Even if Canon offers a better option it will likely be some time before they're readily available for multicam shoots, & by then the Birger will have more than paid for itself.

[eagle_eye]

With the Birger you can power the Iris change from the camera and not need an additional battery, you can control and see information about the Iris with the camera controls and display, and you can use the remote port on the camera to control this as well (like if you need remote with your camera up on a crane).

Also, if I recall correctly, there are some future devices for remote control of the birger mount as well that will be optional.

The advantage of the RedRock is you can buy it now!!

One big omission in your post .You forgot that the Redrock mount will not control auto-focus. Also you only get 20 hours of battery life on a nine volt. You'll need either multiple rechargables, or a lot of 9v's...A costly propostion that makes the price difference negligible.

[mccannondsl@eircom.net]

I had my Red One a whole year before a fully functional Birger mount/VF control was operational but I accepted it as the price you pay for the privilege of cutting edge technology. I've wanted to buy a Af 100 for six months now but not without the Birger. I'm still keeping my powder dry on that purchase.

So, yes I would hold off buying a camera if the Birger mount wasn't ready.
No, I wouldn't hold off buying a Birger to see what Canon or anyone else comes up with.

If the new mount/focus system is as good as the Birger/VF ( I expect it will be better) then I can't image anyone producing a comparable system at anything like the same price.

Cost and quality come a small price with Erik - the real price you pay is - the wait.

[sofresh]

Good point but i do think canon could make a Better eos mount than birger;)
I had my Red One a whole year before a fully functional Birger mount/VF control was operational but I accepted it as the price you pay for the privilege of cutting edge technology. I've wanted to buy a Af 100 for six months now but not without the Birger. I'm still keeping my powder dry on that purchase. So, yes I would hold off buying a camera if the Birger mount wasn't ready.No, I wouldn't hold off buying a Birger to see what Canon or anyone else comes up with.If the new mount/focus system is as good as the Birger/VF ( I expect it will be better) then I can't image anyone producing a comparable system at anything like the same price. Cost and quality come a small price with Erik - the real price you pay is - the wait.

[ProAmateur]

One big omission in your post .You forgot that the Redrock mount will not control auto-focus. Also you only get 20 hours of battery life on a nine volt. You'll need either multiple rechargables, or a lot of 9v's...A costly propostion that makes the price difference negligible.

Your point about auto focus is a good one. However, way back when Birger announced the adapter, he said it would control auto focus and even IS on Canon EOS lenses. Then as time progressed and we saw a few demos here and there of the Birger mount, I never saw anything relating to auto focus nor IS. It was all demos of iris control and electronically controlled repeatable focus points via follow focus. Then (after all the controversy) Birger went radio silence on us. So in all honesty, I am wondering if the Birger mount (as it ships in first iteration) is going to control auto focus or IS on Canon lenses.

Truthfully, I am afraid what we are going to see in the Birger mount is iris control and electronic focus control (with either wireless or wired follow focus). But, that's just me. I hope I am wrong.

Regards,

G.

[eagle_eye]

Your point about auto focus is a good one. However, way back when Birger announced the adapter, he said it would control auto focus and even IS on Canon EOS lenses. Then as time progressed and we saw a few demos here and there of the Birger mount, I never saw anything relating to auto focus nor IS. It was all demos of iris control and electronically controlled repeatable focus points via follow focus. Then (after all the controversy) Birger went radio silence on us. So in all honesty, I am wondering if the Birger mount (as it ships in first iteration) is going to control auto focus or IS on Canon lenses.

Truthfully, I am afraid what we are going to see in the Birger mount is iris control and electronic focus control (with either wireless or wired follow focus). But, that's just me. I hope I am wrong.

Regards,

G.

Thanks for your insight. I will be pretty bummed out if your fears are confirmed. I will call my dealer tomorrow and see if I can verify. In reality tv, which is my mainstay, the Af100 is as good as a boat anchor in some situations without auto-focus. Clearly, the Af100 team at Panasonic has aligned itself with Birger thus far. I would hope that is because full communication with Canon lenses is possible with the birger mount, as they have advertised. If not, I will feel majorly burned by Birger and Panasonic. Suffice to say, in my case, this would not be the first time with Panasonic.

[sofresh]

[QUOTE=dcloud;2436649]"On 27 September, we will send out dealer package, open for dealer orders, and announce ship dates for AF100, F3, FS100 and Focus Wheel.""Ship dates for AF100, F3 and Focus Wheel will be spread through Oct/Nov. FS100 early Dec. More detailed info on Tuesday. Please share."1 more day!

[mccannondsl@eircom.net]

If canon was to announce a s35 eos mount video camera on the 3rd, would you still buy the mount or wait?

I would buy the mount.


Good point but i do think canon could make a Better eos mount than birger;)


Perhaps. It depends on whether you want a follow focus or whether you want to wait some more.

[sofresh]

just received this from cvp

Hi Suresh,
I have just received an email from Birger Engineering to inform me that the mount for the Panasonic AG-AF100 / AG-AF101 is due to be released in November.
As soon as we have any more precise information I will be in contact with you again.
Kind Regards,
Emily

[chervas]

just received this from cvp

Hi Suresh,
I have just received an email from Birger Engineering to inform me that the mount for the Panasonic AG-AF100 / AG-AF101 is due to be released in November.
As soon as we have any more precise information I will be in contact with you again.
Kind Regards,
Emily
Wow, now November?
They are sure doing their darndest to test their product and its potential customers resilience, specially against Canon upcoming new product marketing machinery. And pretty pictures and beautiful adverb words easily distract fools like me.
Well, at least you got an email. That is a lot more than I got in the last five or six months from either Birger or my dealer.

[Brian@202020]

So today is the day right? Any news yet?

[sofresh]

nope:(


just saw this on twitter from erik

Birger adapter EF lenses on Sony PMW-F3 t.co/mxxlqKeX ships next week. More details in dealer package out late this week. No cables! http://birger.tv/tv/153_01.JPG

[Brian@202020]

nope:(


just saw this on twitter from erik

Birger adapter EF lenses on Sony PMW-F3 t.co/mxxlqKeX ships next week. More details in dealer package out late this week. No cables! http://birger.tv/tv/153_01.JPG

That's it? No m43 news?

[sofresh]

nope

[Brian@202020]

Lame

[Bern Caughey]

From Twitter:

@ErikBirger (http://twitter.com/#!/ErikBirger)

"Amtrak to NYC to visit Abel Cine today. Do best writing on trains. Pulling together info on coming products, for release later this week."

6 hours ago (http://twitter.com/#!/ErikBirger/status/118641124431769600) via web

[Mitch Gross]

Y'all will find out very soon.

[chervas]

Mitch, are you going to contact the people in Abel's waiting/interest so we can place in order for first shipment?

[chervas]

WhaWhaWhaWhat happen?
Deja vu all over again?

[eagle_eye]

Tuesday comes and goes without the "dealer package" details announcement. Deceptive as a used car salesman at an iron lot. I bought this camera in March, with the intention of buying the mount soon after NAB upon it's expected release. I spent $200 as a stop gap measure on the Kipon, and then waited, and waited. Let me be clear. I definitely put some of the blame on Panasonic. There is no question that they boosted there marketing strategy with the benefits of the Birger mount to those of us vested in Canon glass. To those of you who feel this is whining, you have your right to your opinion. My opinion is that the "Canon base" has been toyed with to sell a product that they would have had much more trouble selling without this mount. If it is released tomorrow would I still buy it? The answer is yes, but if Jan 1, 2012 arrives and a fully functional Birger mount has not, I will give up on this product. My apologies to Mkfotos; it seems you were correct about one thing. This guys word means nothing.

[dustylense]

I just went ahead and bought the Redrock adapter. I had enough of the Kipon. It's nice to use the RR with my $15,000 worth of canon glass and adjust iris and no vignetting.

[chervas]

I am with you in this one. We have lots of money invested in Canon glass and we purchased these cameras under the same impression that Birger was to deliver in what we though would be a much earlier deadline. But after many months of wait we have now grown weary and distrustful of this company’s announcements on announcements.
I have to disagree on the blame part. I only blame myself, and my department agrees with me that I am the one to blame. Every time they are force to use the Kipon my name seems to come up and not in flowering terms.
What is more, we end up spending more than just the $200 per Kipon adapter. Once we realized that the Kipon was not going to cut it, I had to purchase a boatload of other lenses, Nikons, Voigtlanders, Tokinas, Rokinons, on and on. Lenses that we already had cover with the Canon L glass.

[chervas]

I just went ahead and bought the Redrock adapter. I had enough of the Kipon. It's nice to use the RR with my $15,000 worth of canon glass and adjust iris and no vignetting.
That is what we are going to do also.
Just got an update about the Birger mount from my dealer and it looks like at least two months out. Don't know what was Erik BS last week about dealer packages, but my dealer had no info on pricing, shipping or much of anything else. They would not even entertain at this point a waiting list order.
Correlating this information with Erik's tweets and one could conclude that their priorities for this mount may have shifted to a different camera. When that mount is out, they may return to the AF100. By then we either will be happy with the Redrock adapter or will start looking into the Canon S35

[groveChuck]

Erik- is there any sort of update or news you can give us?
Thanks.

[eagle_eye]

I have to disagree on the blame part. I only blame myself

Just a quick side story, and the reason I said previously I was burned once majorly by Panasonic. This dates back fifteen years or so. Does anyone remember the AJ-D200? Panasonic's entre into the brave new world of DVCPRO. With a whopping 800 lines of resolution it was going to revolutionize the industry, and Panasonic was gung ho and committed to the camera...or so they said. It was bundled with a lens that was rather lackluster, but Panasonic had other lenses with model numbers and all that they promised us they were going to manufacture. They never did, and the lens opening was a non-standard 1/3". They had a product in their catalog for 2 years that was a 1/3 to 2/3 lens mount adapter specifically designed for the the camera. We waited and waited for them to sell this adapter. They never did. Sounds eerily similar right?

I understand what you are saying. There is some veracity to the old adage: "Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me." I can't help feeling stupid for trusting Panasonic after my previous experience, but I still can't help having some very harsh feelings for Panasonic right about now.

[Osslund]

Since release is coming soon I would like to see some specs. if it provides full iris, focus and IS. How it's powering and what functions the focus wheel provides.

[sofresh]

Since release is coming soon I would like to see some specs. if it provides full iris, focus and IS. How it's powering and what functions the focus wheel provides. +1

[Osslund]

Looking at the first to be released Sony F3 adapter there seams to be buttons on top for aperture +/-. So is the release order F3/AF100/FS100?

[sofresh]

Looking at the first to be released Sony F3 adapter there seams to be buttons on top for aperture +/-. So is the release order F3/AF100/FS100? Hope not! This has to be the worst product launch ever!

[Bern Caughey]

Looking at the first to be released Sony F3 adapter there seams to be buttons on top for aperture +/-. So is the release order F3/AF100/FS100?

I seem to remember Erik stating the F3 uses the same protocol as RED, & since Birger already has an EOS adapter for RED it wouldn't surprise me if it was easier to implement then the AF100's.

[jmarkham]

Perhaps the Birger announcement was like a John Cage piece .. entitled .. "crickets"

[eagle_eye]

Hi,

Will be showing the Live Lens Adapter at the VMI Show in Seattle on October 5th.

See you there?

Best,

Jan

This is from the thread on the RR mount. Quite dismayed to see that Panasonic is now showcasing the RR mount. Hopefully they are demo-ing a functionable Birger mount as well. I would like to just have someone honestly address this situation.

[TwinCitiesShooter]

I would like to just have someone honestly address this situation.

Since Birger has had zero integrity or forthrightness when it comes to standing by their time-tables and communicating with their customers, we can't expect them to start now. I've never before been disgusted with a manufacturer, but they've prompted a "first."

[swanny]

This is from the thread on the RR mount. Quite dismayed to see that Panasonic is now showcasing the RR mount. Hopefully they are demo-ing a functionable Birger mount as well. I would like to just have someone honestly address this situation.

It would be pretty stupid on Panasonics part (Jan) to back a product (Birger) going forward if they expect more delays. It will just make them look bad. It's only good sense to use something that is already selling, and not being pushed back, date after date.

And to eagle eye. I don't think Panasonic ever to my knowledge stated that they would be making an adapter for canon glass. It was all up to third party developers. The harsh feelings should not be to Panasonic in my opinion. I feel they delivered exactly what they said they would. It's not like you can't use the camera. There are adapters for every other type of glass out there.

[eagle_eye]

It would be pretty stupid on Panasonics part (Jan) to back a product (Birger) going forward if they expect more delays. It will just make them look bad. It's only good sense to use something that is already selling, and not being pushed back, date after date.

And to eagle eye. I don't think Panasonic ever to my knowledge stated that they would be making an adapter for canon glass. It was all up to third party developers. The harsh feelings should not be to Panasonic in my opinion. I feel they delivered exactly what they said they would. It's not like you can't use the camera. There are adapters for every other type of glass out there.

As I said previously Swanny, others are entitled to their opinion and I am entitled to mine. Up until a few weeks ago, it was the Birger mount that Panasonic was showcasing at their exhibits. I think if you go back you a ways in these posts, you will find a Panasonic representative encouraging people to check out the Birger mount. And to dispute your other statement, without full lens control, this camera is not suitable for run and gun. I can still use it, but with great limitations. Panasonic blatantly marketed the AF100 to Canon owners, with the Birger mount as a complete solution. It was stupid for them to do this in the first place.

[swanny]

As I said previously Swanny, others are entitled to their opinion and I am entitled to mine. Up until a few weeks ago, it was the Birger mount that Panasonic was showcasing at their exhibits. I think if you go back you a ways in these posts, you will find a Panasonic representative encouraging people to check out the Birger mount. And to dispute your other statement, without full lens control, this camera is not suitable for run and gun. I can still use it, but with great limitations. Panasonic blatantly marketed the AF100 to Canon owners, with the Birger mount as a complete solution. It was stupid for them to do this in the first place.

I'm not saying we are not entitled to our opinions at all, that's what makes these boards what they are, I'm just saying Panasonic has nothing to do with the making of the Birger mount. I'm sure they were excited to hear that Birger was going to make a mount for canon glass, as were all of us, but to think it's panasonic's fault it's not released yet, isn't right.
I use my AF100 for 60% of my work being run and gun, using Nikon mount glass and Olympus lenses. I haven't had a problem with it at all. I have "full lens control" using the novaflex adapter, if what you mean by full lens control being Aperture, focus and zoom.

[eagle_eye]

I'm not saying we are not entitled to our opinions at all, that's what makes these boards what they are, I'm just saying Panasonic has nothing to do with the making of the Birger mount. I'm sure they were excited to hear that Birger was going to make a mount for canon glass, as were all of us, but to think it's panasonic's fault it's not released yet, isn't right.
I use my AF100 for 60% of my work being run and gun, using Nikon mount glass and Olympus lenses. I haven't had a problem with it at all. I have "full lens control" using the novaflex adapter, if what you mean by full lens control being Aperture, focus and zoom.

No, actually I mean it will do my laundry and cook for me.

Panasonic has had everything to do with marketing the AF100 and the Birger mount together as a complete solution for owners Canon glass. I would not have bought it had they not. I'm glad you can use your camera to it's full potential with your Nikon lens; I cannot do the same with my Canon lenses. At NAB, they showcased a product that would purportedly allow full control of Canon L-series lenses. Now they are silent about the Birger mount. I am upset with Panasonic, and I think I have a reason to be. I think I've made my point, and I'll leave it at that.

[Barry_Green]

Okay, wait -- "disappointed" that Panasonic is showing a working product? What kind of thinking is that? The product exists, so they're showing it. How can anyone be "disappointed" with that?

Panasonic isn't marketing the Birger adapter. They showed a prototype of a product -- at the same time, showing working or prototype versions of a couple of dozen other products. Should they just not ever show anything?

Be upset if you want -- but being realistic is probably a more productive attitude.

[swanny]

Where has panasonic themselves marketed the Birger besides bringing it to shows? On dvxuser, Barry started the thread about the Birger, and the users hyped it up for the AF100, not panasonic themselves as I understand it. I see and understand your frustrations, but we all were faced with the same problem. Keep the Af100 on the shelf until we could use our canon lenses, or buy lenses so we could make a buck with with cam.

[eagle_eye]

The product exists

Great, where can i buy it? What are the specs? Maybe you know Barry, but myself and many others have been left in the dark and continuously misled.

[Barry_Green]

Great, where can i buy it? What are the specs? Maybe you know Barry, but myself and many others have been left in the dark and continuously misled.
The Redrock product exists, you can buy it from redrockmicro.com. You can read all the specs on it there as well. This shouldn't be news to anyone, there have been many posts about this.

As for Birger, the product doesn't exist yet. As to why they didn't show a prototype at the show, that's a question for Jan and Birger to answer, I don't know anything about that.

[anatusa]

its anther big despoilment for everyone especially after saying that On 27 September the shipping date will be announced! and now no new messages on twiter. I already had my visa on table on 28th, and "ops i did it again"... if its not ready - its not ready , but they could at least put together a few test clips with prototype showing how other functions like AF or IS working... that would be interesting to watch and discuss for now....

[januce]

I refused to use the Canon optics with Birger adapter because there is no time to wait, you need to work now. Now he has one customer less. With promises lens to the camera is not attach.

[Osslund]

The only reason for the birger adapter being late must be their lack of funds to complete this project in time. Because if they had the cash to complete it in time they would have sold a unit to all of us instead of loosing to red rock and now maybe even mtf.

[Shooter]

The only reason for the birger adapter being late must be their lack of funds to complete this project in time. Because if they had the cash to complete it in time they would have sold a unit to all of us instead of loosing to red rock and now maybe even mtf.

They (or Redrock) will never ever sell one to me. I still do not understand the use of electronic lenses on a professional movie camera. Facts and issue oft posted in this forum and this very thread ..confirm to my self ...that I am am correct in my conviction to avoid these lens types.

Many have also posted that they just got on with the job of film making ( and money making) by using existing lenses that actually do the job without a cobble adapter. Hard to go past the logic of that considering the grief.

Tip: Let go of the"precious" Canons and move on.

[dustylense]

They (or Redrock) will never ever sell one to me. I still do not understand the use of electronic lenses on a professional movie camera. Facts and issue oft posted in this forum and this very thread ..confirm to my self ...that I am am correct in my conviction to avoid these lens types.

Many have also posted that they just got on with the job of film making ( and money making) by using existing lenses that actually do the job without a cobble adapter. Hard to go past the logic of that considering the grief.

Tip: Let go of the"precious" Canons and move on.

Shooter, thats fine for you and it's an option. But some people have lot's of canon glass and would like the Birger. I have lot's of Eos glass, so I bought the Redrock and it works great. I have nikkor, contax, Leica, lumix, pentax glass as well. I'll never sell my Eos glass. So to Birger, nevermind the impatience on here from many and just keep working on your adapter. People will buy them. And if you dont like it, take Shooters advice and move forward. I've put maybe 7 different lens makers on the af100. From Eos to PL. Thats the thing about this camera, lots of options out there.

[Osslund]

Maybe it's a good thing they are so late. If it would have been on the market a year ago I've never would have got the excellent Voigtländers...

[ScottNelson]

I have a Tokina 11-16 EF mount and a great Canon L 70-200 f2.8 w/1.4x that I really want to use with the AF100. I canceled my Birger order and deposit with Rule Camera this morning and plan to order the RR as soon as I return to the States from the Netherlands where I am now shooting. I too am fed up with Erik's Sept 27 promise and following silence. Enough is enough.

Fortunately I also have 3 Nikon lenses: 18-35, 80-200 & 300mm that I have rediscovered with my Voighlander MFT adaptor.

4118741188

[Steve R]

The only reason for the birger adapter being late must be their lack of funds to complete this project in time. Because if they had the cash to complete it in time they would have sold a unit to all of us instead of loosing to red rock and now maybe even mtf.

I disagree; I've seen lots of businesses that effectively had all the money in the world to execute their project / product release - but they failed because of poor planning, improper setting of expectations, poor communication, poor project management, and just generally poor execution...

[Osslund]

Something is poor nevertheless...

[Greg Smith]

Stated another way: Adequate capitalization is a necessary but not sufficient condition for developing and marketing a successful product.

There are a thousand reasons why the Birger project may have gone off the rails, access to funding being but one of them.

I'm going to give them until October 15 or so (when I'm getting paid next) to make a firm announcement, and will purchase the Redrock at that time if there's still no product to order.

- Greg

[Mitch Gross]

Sorry guys, I've been away from this forum for a bit.

I know there's a lot of speculation going on here about the delays, and let me first note that I cannot state all the reasons why. In part because I am not privy to them all and in part because it is not my place to say. But I can tell you that it is not all Erik's or Birger Engineering's fault and that the company also has a "sell no wine before it's time" policy where they wish to make sure that everything functions perfectly before shipping. Agree with that or not, this is the way they choose to do business, and there is some integrity to that. I can tell you that the delays are not particularly due to capitalization issues.

As I understand it, the release of Birger mounts for various cameras are on the order or weeks, not months. As soon as we have a definitive answer from the parties involved then we or someone else will let you know. And yes, i did state "parties" because that's what these things take. There are different variants for different cameras since they each have slight differences in their communication and power capabilities. But I can state that the mount can be used with or without the focus knob and the the unit allows control of iris, focus and IS. Other manufacturers do not.

[mkfotos.com]

Personally, I've come to accept that the adapter may not come out anytime soon, if ever; hell, in late December it'll be a year since its first announced release. Sure, I was upset once, now I pretty much don't care, and I have enough non-Canon glass, and get enough utility out of dumb Canon adapters, that while fully using what I do have would be nice, it's far from a necessity as I've worked around and past the 'problem'. To me the Birger adapter has become a cautionary tale, a reminder that it's all BS until you have something functional in hand.

Birger? Meh...

[eagle_eye]

Sorry guys, I've been away from this forum for a bit.

I know there's a lot of speculation going on here about the delays, and let me first note that I cannot state all the reasons why. In part because I am not privy to them all and in part because it is not my place to say. But I can tell you that it is not all Erik's or Birger Engineering's fault and that the company also has a "sell no wine before it's time" policy where they wish to make sure that everything functions perfectly before shipping. Agree with that or not, this is the way they choose to do business, and there is some integrity to that. I can tell you that the delays are not particularly due to capitalization issues.

As I understand it, the release of Birger mounts for various cameras are on the order or weeks, not months. As soon as we have a definitive answer from the parties involved then we or someone else will let you know. And yes, i did state "parties" because that's what these things take. There are different variants for different cameras since they each have slight differences in their communication and power capabilities. But I can state that the mount can be used with or without the focus knob and the the unit allows control of iris, focus and IS. Other manufacturers do not.

One theory I have is a potential patent infringement lawsuit, or threat there of, by Canon. Alas, it is only a theory and I have nothing to base it on. If it is patent infringement, we probably won't see the mount for a long time. The other theory I have is his fabricator in China screwed him.

[eagle_eye]

I can state that the mount can be used with or without the focus knob and the the unit allows control of iris, focus and IS. Other manufacturers do not.

Thank you for clarifying this Mitch. I am relieved to hear that from you.

[chervas]

What is it that that statement clarifies?
In fact the whole post from Mitch could be read many ways. The Birger way of communicating is spreading.

[eagle_eye]

What is it that that statement clarifies?
In fact the whole post from Mitch could be read many ways. The Birger way of communicating is spreading.

He doesn't work for Birger. He is a dealer. There has been doubt on this board as to whether or not the mount will allow control of focus and IS. Some have posted recently that they were not sure if this would be the case. I think my post #611 is specific enough for you to garnish that on your own, but there you go, I spelled it out for you.

[swanny]

One theory I have is a potential patent infringement lawsuit, or threat there of, by Canon. Alas, it is only a theory and I have nothing to base it on. If it is patent infringement, we probably won't see the mount for a long time. The other theory I have is his fabricator in China screwed him.

Why do you suspect Birger would be infringing Canon? If anything this will help Canon's sales of lenses. If they allowed the mount from Birger to apply the mount for multiple other camera's, i don't see why they would raise their hands over the AF100 mount.

[chervas]

He doesn't work for Birger. He is a dealer. There has been doubt on this board as to whether or not the mount will allow control of focus and IS. Some have posted recently that they were not sure if this would be the case. I think my post #611 is specific enough for you to garnish that on your own, but there you go, I spelled it out for you.
You need to relax hombre, your are wound up tighter than a ministers wife!
I do know who is Mitch. He has sold me a couple of things and I have corresponded with him about Birger.
My main need for clarification would be with “the unit allows control of, ….FOCUS… .If you are not using the focus knob attachment, what is that mean? That it lets you focus manually? Well I hope that was not the hold up.
When he is saying, ‘other manufactures do not” Is he just referring to IS only?

[swanny]

You need to relax hombre, your are wound up tighter than a ministers wife!
I do know who is Mitch. He has sold me a couple of things and I have corresponded with him about Birger.
My main need for clarification would be with “the unit allows control of, ….FOCUS… .If you are not using the focus knob attachment, what is that mean? That it lets you focus manually? Well I hope that was not the hold up.
When he is saying, ‘other manufactures do not” Is he just referring to IS only?

I believe the others only allow for aperture change.

[eagle_eye]

Why do you suspect Birger would be infringing Canon? If anything this will help Canon's sales of lenses. If they allowed the mount from Birger to apply the mount for multiple other camera's, i don't see why they would raise their hands over the AF100 mount.

Because certain parts, designs, firmware, and processes may be protected by US patent law. Regardless of whether it helps Canon sell lenses or not, it will not help them sell cameras in the 5D/7D market range. Either way, if your design and or wares are being implemented to make a device, you can sue to stop the production of the device, or negotiate for a piece of the action. Like I said, it is just one theory. If the mount is coming out in a couple of weeks, then it would be unlikely.

It was just a thought, and I should have kept it to myself.

[Rick Burnett]

Because certain parts, designs, firmware, and processes may be protected by US patent law. Regardless of whether it helps Canon sell lenses or not, it will not help them sell cameras in the 5D/7D market range. Either way, if your design and or wares are being implemented to make a device, you can sue to stop the production of the device, or negotiate for a piece of the action. Like I said, it is just one theory. If the mount is coming out in a couple of weeks, then it would be unlikely.

It was just a thought, and I should have kept it to myself.

But Birger has already provided mounts that use the Canon EOS lens mount already, for the Red One. In addition, so does a lot of other companies. I'd find it hard to believe Canon would go after Birger and not Red Rock or any other mount. It just doesn't make sense. What would Canon gain out of this? I just don't see any precedence or motivation.

I'd imagine if anything it's a manufacturing issue/concern. Raw materials, boards, soldering, connectors, etc. Most hold ups I have seen have been from sourcing materials.

[swanny]

But Birger has already provided mounts that use the Canon EOS lens mount already, for the Red One. In addition, so does a lot of other companies. I'd find it hard to believe Canon would go after Birger and not Red Rock or any other mount. It just doesn't make sense. What would Canon gain out of this? I just don't see any precedence or motivation.

I'd imagine if anything it's a manufacturing issue/concern. Raw materials, boards, soldering, connectors, etc. Most hold ups I have seen have been from sourcing materials.

That's what I was trying to get to. They have an EOS mount for several other cameras.

[mkfotos.com]

Don't forget that Tamron, Sigma, Cosina, and probably others have reverse engineered Canon's protocols, yet Canon leaves them in peace. Why? Because ultimately it strengthens their position, their ecosystem.

[eagle_eye]

Don't forget that Tamron, Sigma, Cosina, and probably others have reverse engineered Canon's protocols, yet Canon leaves them in peace. Why? Because ultimately it strengthens their position, their ecosystem.

I respect what all you guys are saying, but that does not mean that patents are not being leased or licensed in those cases. I have seen an interview with Erik where he specifically says that he has had to reverse engineer, because Canon has not made their design protocols privy to him. Also, The Red One is not in the same market as the 5D/7D. I do agree, Mark, that the culprit to the delays are more likely fabrication related.

[Rick Burnett]

I respect what all you guys are saying, but that does not mean that patents are not being leased or licensed in those cases. I have seen an interview with Erik where he specifically says that he has had to reverse engineer, because Canon has not made their design protocols privy to him. Also, The Red One is not in the same market as the 5D/7D. I do agree, Mark, that the culprit to the delays are more likely fabrication related.

And this is exactly what these other companies have done as well...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EF_lens_mount

Look in the section on "History"

It has no matter if the Red One is in the same category as the 5D/7D, I never mentioned those cameras. The point is, why would Canon allow the Birger EF adapter for the Red One and not the AF100 or FS100? Clearly that would be the FIRST item a lawyer would bring up because Canon is no doubt well aware of the Birger adapter. It's been out for a long time and used in professional capacities for a long time.

I very much doubt Canon has anything to do with the delay. But then again, not all businesses act logically, so who knows! :)

[Mitch Gross]

Fellas, there is no legal entanglement here. Others factors cause delays, but not that.

And sometimes it is not the fault of the in-between company. Panasonic or Sony on one side, Canon on the other, little Birger in the middle. All must play nice. Sometimes it is technical, sometimes it is political, sometimes it is a little bit of both.

No matter, Birger mounts should be arriving soon.

[Darren Levine]

IMHO this thread should be closed, it serves no further purpose but speculation and frustration. i stopped following the development of this mount months ago because it does not matter how much it's talked about, it's clear that it's development and launch will be done on birger's schedule and nothing else can affect that. on one side i dislike how announcements and expectations were handled, on the other i feel for what hurtles the young company must be going through. Either way it's pointless for this thread to stay up. when they are 100% irrevocably certain of when they will launch, they should start a new thread with that info and life can go on from there. those who bought an af100 with an expectation of this mount, well, you took a gamble, and it turned sour. but in the end you can't blame one company for the delays of another

3 cents

[eagle_eye]

In my humble opinion, it is your choice to come here and read the thread, and I feel the thread is an important place to for those of us awaiting the mount to talk and listen. If you don't want to read the thread, don't click on it. Thanks for the info Mitch.

[Darren Levine]

eagle eye, as you may or may not have seen in other threads here, these forums strive to stay on topic to the OP, non-hostile, and overall beneficial to everyone using them. it is obvious the OP has been discussed to it's end, the only remaining info can only come from one source: birger. of late more heated words have been building here, and i see no other direction for it to go being that there isn't anything left of the OP to discuss. the specs haven't changed, the af100 hasn't changed, birger hasn't changed, the only thing that has changed is the frustration level, so what else do you expect to talk about other than defending a position you or someone else might have for or against birger/panasonic?

let birger/whoever start a new thread called "birger mount available as of XX/XX/XXXX" or "birger mount now available" when they are able to do so.

in the meantime it seems people will be looking to RR and any other alternatives that pop up in the time it takes for birger to launch their product.

either way it calls for new threads, not dead ones

you're entitled to your opinion same as mine and everyone else, but i'll buy the first round to keep it civil. (i'll be in your particular city later next month)

cheerios,

[ManfrediMedia]

all this internet jabber made me think there was really news about this adapter

[jmarkham]

41283

[eagle_eye]

i'll buy the first round to keep it civil. (i'll be in your particular city later next month)

cheerios,

It's on Darren! Hopefully we'll be toasting to the joy of a brand new Birger mount. I just broke out my Glidecam V-16 for a shoot next week, and I couldn't help but think to myself how much I would love that auto-focus feature. Very awkward balancing the rig and keeping focus (I don't own a follow focus). I'm sorry if I come off as hostile, just very eager to get my hands on that mount.

[Darren Levine]

i'm very eager for you to get your hands on as well so as to let us know if it lives up to the buildup. looks like i'll actually be in the vegas area and not cali for this particular shoot, but each month comes a new destination, cali is inevitable at some point

[Jan_Crittenden]

We will actually be showing one at the Abel Cine AF100 event tonight. http://training.abelcine.com/category/event/

Hope to see you there.

Best,

Jan

[Shipsides]

If you are in NYC. Come by our AF100 event tonight to see the Birger adapter in action. Check it out here - http://training.abelcine.com/ag-af100-performance-in-person-n/

What Jan said. :)

Andy

[el presidente]

I would be very interested in feedback from anyone who attended the above event and got to have a play with the mount.

Craig

[dwiener]

Would have attended had I known sooner. Day off and just got back from a fishing trip. I'm sure there will be some good feedback posted here.

[Mark Smith]

Looking forward to reading any reports on the birger mount which if it doesn't appear soon might be called the Yeti mount or the Nessie mount.. I thought I could make the show tonight but the long hand of the office reached out and pulled me back into the chair at the desk.

[Darren Levine]

Looking forward to reading any reports on the birger mount which if it doesn't appear soon might be called the Yeti mount or the Nessie mount.. I thought I could make the show tonight but the long hand of the office reached out and pulled me back into the chair at the desk. Really nothing new. But ill post a video shortly

[randynoland]

Ditto. I have had the adapter on preorder for sometime. Im anxious to hear if this is worth the wait. My guess is that it will be.

[James Bridges]

Any word yet?

[ProAmateur]

Really nothing new. But ill post a video shortly

When you say nothing new, I assume you mean they showed only wireless follow focus, repeatability of focus points, etc etc? Nothing about autofocus or image stabilization?

Regards,

G.

[Darren Levine]

even less actually :)



http://vimeo.com/30465232

[eagle_eye]

Was there any mention of of auto-focus control?

[groveChuck]

Hey Erik - what's up? Anything new to share or announce?
thanks!

[bcolgate]

Thanks for posting this Darren! Much appreciated. Wish I could have been there; darn clients always seem to know when you're trying to get away to something interesting....

[mkfotos.com]

The AF100 Birger adapter will be out in December, before the camera is rele... umm... wait, oh, sorry, that was the first announcement from sometime last year.

[Shooter]

You Canon lens afficiandos must be so patient , so staunch and so up to the challenge of using such a clunky solution.

I admire you all for your faith and the 9v battery manufacturers thank you also.

[soarprod]

I want power to the IS system - don't need autofocus.

[eagle_eye]

I want power to the IS system - don't need autofocus.

What exactly is your point? I don't see a product being released with one but not the other. I could care less about image stabilization, but I'll take it if it is available. In my opinion, it's either going to be aperture only (no communication), or it going to fully communicate between the lens and camera. The longer the delay, the more I disbelieve that the mount will communicate between the two. I do get a kick out of the fact that so many shooters here discount the potential advantages of auto-focus, because they are so good the don't need it (chuckles). If you don't see any positive in the added feature in the work that you expect to do or do with the AF100, so be it. It is a feature that if works properly could beneficially improve certain real life shooting situations.

Anyways, if Birger does not give their potential clients the benefit of an update soon (and I mean days), I will give up on Birger, and I will give up on Panasonic products. I'm sure this will come as a great relief to those of you sick of my rants.

[Shooter]

Anyways, if Birger does not give their potential clients the benefit of an update soon (and I mean days), I will give up on Birger, and I will give up on Panasonic products. I'm sure this will come as a great relief to those of you sick of my rants.


When were Birger and Panasonic mutually inclusive in any consideration of what hardware to buy?


I do get a kick out of the fact that so many shooters here discount the potential advantages of auto-focus, because they are so good the don't need it (chuckles). If you don't see any positive in the added feature in the work that you expect to do or do with the AF100, so be it. It is a feature that if works properly could beneficially improve certain real life shooting situations.


Thats the way that the cine professionals roll.

[sofresh]

i've lost faith:(

[swanny]

I think that people don't care so much about the autofocus, because it most likely won't be fast enough to be worth a darn. It certainly won't be as fast any ENG style camera. I just think the autofocus is something that I don't see as being a good attribute, unlike IS and aperture control. Aperture control being a must have, the IS being a very nice feature and the autofocus being something the AF100 was never designed for. If I need autofocus, I grab a different cam, which is almost never now.
On a side note, I shoot run and gun stuff and live weddings 70% of the time, and don't have a problem with autofocus. Try it out on the 14-140, which is supposed to be pretty fast auto focus, or the fastest auto focus lens with the AF100 and let me know if it's too slow for you. It certainly was for me, so in that respect, I don't see how it can be of any real use.

[eagle_eye]

Try it out on the 14-140, which is supposed to be pretty fast auto focus, or the fastest auto focus lens with the AF100 and let me know if it's too slow for you. It certainly was for me, so in that respect, I don't see how it can be of any real use.

Thanks Swanny that is very helpful information. I will demo the Lumix like you suggest. I guess in hindsight I should have done that in the first place before buying the AF100. I have no interest in owning a Lumix lens. Especially if it is as slow as you say. I got caught up in the hype, and the Birger/Panasonic marketing machine. It may just be my perception, but I feel like Panasonic is now putting more emphasis on the AF100 being a film style camera. Perhaps code speak for, "Auto-focus on this camera sucks balls". The fact that they were showing the same prototype from last years NAB, and Jan has "no idea" about any model with features that have been touted by Erik since last year sucks. I will buy the Redrock mount.

[sofresh]

i've decided to sell my AF - will be putting it up next week and cancelling my order with cvp for the burger . Time to move on!! i've been using the 5d more and just have not found the af's sweet spot. No one to blame but myself for jumping the gun and selling all my beautiful L series FD Glass on the promise of a .......

bye bye birger mount thread

hope it has a happy ending:/

[dwiener]

Autofocus no, but focus control for follow focus, yes provided motor noise is not an issue. And IS for lenses that have that capability.

[mkfotos.com]

Just got this from RULE:

"WEEKLY TEXPO UPDATE
Check out the updated list of TEXPO vendors and featured products that you'll
see on Tuesday along with a variety of rental gear in the Apollo Room
and sales gear in the Showroom:

Birger:Canon EF to Sony PMW-F3 lens adapter & electronic focus wheel."

...so after nearly a year of promises, this is what we get, not even a mention of a fully functional, final form adapter for the AF100.

[ProAmateur]

i've lost faith:(

Me too. In fact, I will not buy this product now, even if it ever does come out. The whole "Birger" fiasco does not give me a warm and fuzzy about any level of reliability (mostly after the sale) of the company.

Its too bad too. I would venture a guess to say that Birger will not make the money from this product they would have had it launched when originally said. The mount would have sold like hot cakes had it launched when the camera did. Now, I suspect, not so much. I think people (some) will still buy it, but not at the numbers they would have at camera launch.

The mount may eventually appear...and most likely be nice. But from a purely "business" standpoint, it's a failure...a company failure.

Regards,

G.

[aguia]

i've decided to sell my AF - will be putting it up next week and cancelling my order with cvp for the burger . Time to move on!! i've been using the 5d more and just have not found the af's sweet spot. No one to blame but myself for jumping the gun and selling all my beautiful L series FD Glass on the promise of a .......

bye bye birger mount thread

hope it has a happy ending:/

There continues to be a lot of entertainment value in this thread, but more like a car wreck that you just can't help but stare at.

So let me try to parse your logic on this. . .you are going to sell the AF100 because an unrelated manufacturer has failed to deliver a proposed product that would have allowed you to use a third manufacturer's lenses (with all their automatic features) and (!) on the basis of this theoretical/proposed product you disposed of a set of perfectlly useable lenses that you could have used with the AF100.

I sort of used to enjoy the old set of Guinness beer commercials where the animated dude would yell "BRILLIANT"

[sofresh]

That's exactly what I did,stupid I know. As an interim I bought the voightlander and panny14-140 but really haven't enjoyed them. Cameras more than made its money back so like I said,time to move on. The next owner is gonna be very happy I'm sure

[groveChuck]

So let me try to parse your logic on this. . .you are going to sell the AF100 because an unrelated manufacturer has failed to deliver a proposed product that would have allowed you to use a third manufacturer's lenses (with all their automatic features) and (!) on the basis of this theoretical/proposed product you disposed of a set of perfectlly useable lenses that you could have used with the AF100.

Sounds like the synopsis of a bad dramatic film ... :^(

[sofresh]

Sounds like the synopsis of a bad dramatic film ... :^( Unfortunately based on a true story:( At the time I really wanted 1 set of glass for my 5d, and af that why I sold the fd's.

[Jan_Crittenden]

I got caught up in the hype, and the Birger/Panasonic marketing machine.

There is no Birger/Panasonic Marketing Machine. Anything we say about Erik"s product is what he says. It will be great when his product hits the market, but it has proven to be more difficult that he originally thought. I have enough issues working my own marketing machine. ;_)


It may just be my perception, but I feel like Panasonic is now putting more emphasis on the AF100 being a film style camera.


This must be your perception because this is what we have said from Day One. In fact the customers that helped to design it were all cinematographers, with deep backgrounds in film and filmmaking.


The fact that they were showing the same prototype from last years NAB, and Jan has "no idea" about any model with features that have been touted by Erik since last year sucks. I will buy the Redrock mount.

As far as my not having any idea, and having that discredit the Birger product, that is ridiculous. I know he is working on a wireless product but since I don't work for Birger I am not privy to his R & D. I fully expect that his product will show up. And I know it will be a good product. But damning Erik's product because I don't know anything about the details, you guys need to just take a deep breath. The Red Rock product is a nice product, it doesn't do as much but it does get the primary job done.

Best regards,

Jan

[eagle_eye]

This must be your perception because this is what we have said from Day One. In fact the customers that helped to design it were all cinematographers, with deep backgrounds in film and filmmaking.


So I guess it's my mistake or misinterpretation. This product is not intended for those with deep backgrounds in television production? I'll make sure to spread the word out here in LA.



I don't know anything about the details, you guys need to just take a deep breath.


"The rumors are true! Birger is coming out with a lens control system for EF mount lenses on the Panasonic AF100. Control for the iris, both auto and manual, will be from the camera. Continuous (video-style) auto-focus will be supported on most Canon "L-series" lenses. Power is provided by the camera for most lenses. Image stabilization is supported on "IS" lenses, and this feature can be turned on or off from the lens." ~Birger website

The above text from Birger hasn't changed since Day One. Interesting that you do know that he is working on a wireless product, but make no mention of the above cited auto-focus feature that Panasonic reps were hyping at NAB 2011. Thank you for your advice to take a deep breath. You must feel that I'm worked up over nothing at all. As I said before, I've given up. I've waited too long. The only thing I have left to do is scribe a letter to Panasonic corporate headquarters to express my personal discontent. I'll never buy another Panasonic product again. Thank you for reinforcing my sentiment.

[Vultch]

Guys I can understand the frustration ...I'm still looking for the "holy grail" run and gun lens but its hardly Panasonics fault...they delivered a great camera, I'm sure Birger wants to deliver but ...gremlins etc