View Full Version : Where do we go from here?
Wiyum
02-14-2005, 02:00 AM
I'm extremely excited by all of the news on this new camera, but I can't help but realize that I'm off to grad school soon (this Fall, God-willing... I made the intrview cut), and I wonder what the new camera will be when I leave school once and for all.
We've quickly climbed the format slope and we're getting HD 24p. What will be offerred by competitors as a result? What new developments will keep the HDX line improving? We can assume that there won't be a need for an HDX-100A in the same way there was for the DVX, fixing workflow and other such problems that users had with the plain DVX: Panasonic knows how to get everything right the first time. Going to higher resolution formats that don't exist yet doesn't seem like it will be on anyone's horizon. So once we're at HD, where do we go?
One thing I've never seen mentioned that I think would be a dealbreaker for Indie Cinematographers is a camera (from Panasonic, Sony, or Canon) that has not only interhangable lenses, but a set of primes available. Based on my experiences with shooting HD to date, I'm much happier with the short I shot on the Cinealta with a set of Zeiss digiprimes than I am with the short I shot on Varicam with an Angeniuex zoom (okay, that likely has more to do with how I had to light to shoot the Varicam short's 29 pages in 4 days, as opposed to the Cinealta short's 9 pages in 3 days). I'm not knocking the Angenieux... my point is, I've never felt like the interchangeable lens option of the XL cameras was anything to get excited about, because there were no good options for wide angle.
Is it unreasonable to speculate about a set of 1/3" format primes? What would such glass sell for? I imagine Sony could get Zeiss, Panasonic could get Leica, and Canon could make their own such lenses. Would there be a market, or am I the only one that thinks that a $6000 body with $2500-$3000 primes would be the best "next development" once we've got affordable 24p and affordable HD? It strikes me as more logical from a business perspective than offerring bigger chips, and it would really allow cinematographers to work at their best.
Just my random brainstorming in the wake of all of this new excitement,
Will
Interchangable lenses would be fantastic for the new panasonic camera.
I have always liked the XL line of cameras.. but most people, me included.. have no use or can't afford different lenses.
but with HD's resolution, I think the usefulness of interchangable lenses is much greater.
Although, as much as I would like to have that, unless there is an increase in chip size, interchangable lenses may end up like the XL1/2. a nice feature that never gets used. To me, DOF is very important, and without a bigger chip, we run into the same issues as before.. just with more res...
I'd love an HDX100 that shoots 24/30p @ 720p, with 2/3" chips.. and interchangable lenses... ain't gonna happen.. but I can dream..
PS: I gotta stop typing when I am this tired..
Jaime Valles
02-14-2005, 11:58 AM
I'd love an HDX100 that shoots 24/30p @ 720p, with 2/3" chips.. and interchangable lenses... ain't gonna happen.. but I can dream..
THAT would be spectacular! I can't imagine they'd throw in 2/3" chips, but maybe they'll do 1/2" CCDs. Please?
David Jimerson
02-14-2005, 04:27 PM
The battle's done, and we kind of won, so we'll sound our vict'ry cheer . . .
(Never mind. ;) )
As soon as I heard the announcement leak I wondered the same thing. What could would the generation after this offer? I mean, 16:9, HD, recording to solid state memory... wow. This thing would be good for many years!
spidey
02-14-2005, 04:34 PM
so when is it expected to drop?
Barry_Green
02-14-2005, 07:47 PM
The announcement is expected at NAB, April 18th I think. But as for when it'll hit store shelves is completely unknown.
Thought I would ressurect this thread now that we know more about the HVX200's capabilities. Where DO we go next? Several years from now what will Panasonic pull out yet again? 3D recording? More pixels with greater dynamic range? Cinemascope? This new camera could last for MANY MANY years! Much longer than your average piece of tech these days.
Isaac_Brody
03-31-2005, 08:59 PM
Where DO we go next?
Now we finish all of our brilliant character driven scripts, shoot them, screen them. Wash, rinse, and repeat.
Excellent response :D
I'm just trying to imagine where the market could possibly go next. What the next big things will be. Ah well.
Sumfun
03-31-2005, 09:52 PM
I wouldn't mind getting better low light response, either with bigger CCD's or some type of processing. Direct recording to disk would be nice, too. Actually, I wouldn't mind if the camera can edit the whole movie and just give me a finished product ;-b
Rich Lee
03-31-2005, 09:54 PM
i want a camera that can store depth information as another channel/file/track along with the rgb channel so that we can adjust the dof in post.
mkhsfz
03-31-2005, 10:15 PM
I have a question... Am I getting this wrong... HDV, DVCPro HD (HVX200)am I just really getting the DVX100 picture in a bigger size? Or is HVX200 picture a lot better (of course its not out yet) and has a closer look to something like the SDX900. The reason I ask because when I compare the Sony HD FX cam to the DVX100 I don't see a real difference other than the size of the image. I'm not trying to knock the camera at all jsut trying to understand these new formats.
i want a camera that can store depth information as another channel/file/track along with the rgb channel so that we can adjust the dof in post.
you're kidding right?
Rich Lee
04-01-2005, 03:20 AM
you're kidding right?
do you think im kidding?
bgundu
04-01-2005, 07:49 AM
This is already in the works.
http://www.3dvsystems.com/products/zcam.html
dont know.. seems to me that DOF is a 100% optic vs CCD size thing. it is nothing like data that can be adjusted after it has already been recorded. unless you shoot the same picture using two different lenses, (or two different sizes of CCD.. hmm)
though.. it's a nice wishful thinking.. futuristic in a way :)
NoahK
04-01-2005, 08:00 AM
Post-adjustable DOF would be a very cool camera but it seems like it would need to record a scene as 3D data via something like radar or ultrasound rather than optically. Or perhaps it would do both.
Noah
This is already in the works.
http://www.3dvsystems.com/products/zcam.html
omg.... i've never missed my Bolex so much as i do now
i just hope that cinematography wouldn't totally shift to some sort of digital post process..
Isaac_Brody
04-01-2005, 08:07 AM
Looks interesting, and very futuristic. Too bad all the examples are complete cheese.
bgundu
04-01-2005, 08:11 AM
Looks interesting, and very futuristic. Too bad all the examples are complete cheese.
I agree. Looks like they're marketing it towards lowbudget productions where there is no time for green screen setup. But the potential is certainly there to get z-depth information to be used as a mask to blur out the background.
NoahK
04-01-2005, 08:44 AM
I've long desired a "camera" that could scan an entire scene in 3D so that I'd only have to "stage" it once and could then use the 3D data to recreate any angle or camera movement in post. That's how The Polar Express was made but I want something based on imagery not motion capture.
Noah
Interesting 3D stuff :)
I think we might see a move to 10bit capture in the future. Not sure how many itterations away that is though.
Rich Lee
04-01-2005, 02:13 PM
bgundu- so this thing works? i see it standard def...but seems like these guys could get a hd version up without to much of a problem. cool stuff!
zdepth images are soo cool to look at, would be cool to do an entire short or video in zdepth
Barry_Green
04-04-2005, 01:01 PM
HDV, DVCPro HD (HVX200)am I just really getting the DVX100 picture in a bigger size?
Pretty much, yes. That's the general goal. Kind of like when you're scanning in photos, and you can choose 300DPI or 1200DPI, and you get basically the same picture, but the 1200DPI version has a lot more detail and can be blown up to bigger sizes. That's pretty much what's happening with high-def. It's not that there's necessarily anything "different" about the picture, but that it's made up of a lot more pixels, so you can resolve more detail. Color, contrast, latitude, all that other stuff can still be comparable, but the detail is much, much higher. Watching the NCAA basketball tournament in HD is one way you can really see the difference -- you can make out details in every face in the crowd, whereas on standard NTSC television that's all a blur. Plus, you can blow up (i.e., project on a digital projector, or blowup to film) a high-def image and retain more detail, because there's more detail in the picture to start with. The difference between a high-def camera and a comparable SD camera is primarily in the amount of detail that gets resolved.