Successful Movies With Crappy Scripts

[David Jimerson]

We all agree that the script is critical . . .

But is it always? Here's a start of a list of movies which did well in the varying ways that movies can do well, but had lousy scripts:

1) TITANIC. Raked in a boatload (ouch) of cash (one of the highest grossing of all time) AND Oscars -- with painful dialogue and a contrived script which is not so much a story as it is an excuse to take a tour of every single location on the ship.

2) TOP GUN. Some great quotables in a morass of cheese, but for the most part, you didn't watch this one multiple times for the writing, kids.

3) GLADIATOR. A Saturday matinee MST3K B-material story that takes about three seconds to tell (in fact, I think they did in the three sentences of the tagline), yet brilliant direction makes three hours seem like twenty minutes.

There's a good start. Anyone else have any other nominations?

[vovka]

It is type of films create mostly as "popcorn movie"
No work for brain, just sit eat and vegitate.
-Independents day
-Godzila (american version)
-Matrix (Reloaded and Revolution)
-Finding Nemo , i don't get it what is so good about it? +Almost all new Disney films
-Legaly blonde ... and tons of other chick flics.

...it is easy to have list of good one.

[PurposeDriven]

Listen to finding nemo before you say the script wasn't well done. Pixar (not disney) comes up with the entire story. They write intelligent scripts that entertain kids and relate to adults. They are going to do even greater things as time goes on. (free from the Mickey organization of crime)

[Neil Rowe]

..i agree, pixar is a great company, but still, i wanst very impressed with finding nemo either . it was just a little too tell tale formulated for me. but, they cant please everyone, i know alot of people that loved it as well.

[vovka]

They write intelligent scripts that entertain kids and relate to adults.
This is all realative, this is IMHO i don't find fish in plastic bags, trying to cross road with cars is very intelligent, or dude tortle surfer ... btw Stive Jobs still be chairman of Pixar, this is actualy on of main reason i had turned down work for them about 4-5 years ago.
I don't ask you to agree with me, this is just IMHO.

[J.R. Hudson]

NO! Ain't no one understand the words that are coming out of your mouth!

[vovka]

NO! *Ain't no one understand the words that are coming out of your mouth!
Hehe, I tryed once record my self speaking english and was amuse that most people understend me :) ... or they just nice to me and node there heads silintly

[J.R. Hudson]

LOL :D

It's all good. I was just playin' anyway! :D

[marjamar]

vovka makes perfect sense to me, but then again I grew up with most of my older relatives, and my dad speaking broken english around me. Spent alot of summers in northern minnesota and my ears would really get a workout -- Especially in the sauna. Anybody ever taken a sauna with 4-5 fins/norwegians may know what I mean. Everyone else can guess ;D.

-Rodger

[THiNSPiRiT]

Wasn't finding nemo nominated for best original screenplay people? It's a great screenplay in my opinion which I found thoroughly entertaining and universal to all people...

Charlie's Angles is a pretty good example of crappy script but very successful.

[J.R. Hudson]

Yeah, I never understood the CA thing. (except for maybe Cameron)

[PaleRider]

TOP GUN is the greatest film ever made about the trials of being a gay man and not being able to hide it. Val Kilmer deserves an Oscar for his portrayal of the openly straight, secretly gay ICE MAN.

So Say I.

[Terry_Lasater]

Marjamar wrote: *
"Anybody ever taken a sauna with 4-5 fins/norwegians may know what I mean. *Everyone else can guess."

Wow! I'd like to take a sauna with 4-5 fins/norwegians... blonde & busty, of course. :)

So Say I.

[David Jimerson]

Wow! I'd like to take a sauna with 4-5 fins/norwegians... blonde & busty, of course. *:)



As long as they're not named Robert Paulsen . . .

[BLWolf]

As long as they're not named Robert Paulsen . . .





LOL :o

[kai]

Lost In Translation. It was completely stupid... but somewhat "successful".

[Guest]

Jurassic Park, horrible script but made a ton of money. What's worse it came from a (rather) well written book.

The Firm - same thing, crummy movie/plot/script, made a ton of movie and butchered a really good book.

Planet of the Apes (the new one) - made gobs of cash but was just god awful in every way I can imagine.

My Big Fat Greek Wedding - I just did not see what everyone else saw in this movie.

X-Men, broke a bank but took some of the greatest comic characters of all time and trapped them in one of the worst scripts mankind has ever affronted itself with.

Lest we think I'm being rough..
Armageddon. God AWFUL script, but damn me was that a good movie and it made mint to boot.

Robin Hood Prince of Thieves - another rotten script that made a lot of money (and I actually liked the movie but I plead being young at the time).

Pearl Harbor and The Bodyguard (it had Kevin Costner and Whitney Houston, you've probably forgotten it) both were rotten writing jobbers but made nice coin here and overseas.

Sleepless in Seattle - I can't sit through that movie but apparently every woman on the planet can.

[c.g._eads]

Rush Hour - by Brett Ratner's own admission. Btw, why does everybody hate that guy now?

Titanic is actually a great great script. The dialogue is sketchy at times, but i don't think it ever lags.

Finding Nemo. What the hell? That movie sucked. As did The Incredibles. Why do people like these movies? That last good animated film I saw was Ice Age.

[Rasquachemedia]

come on. ice age sucked. i had to turn it off after 20 minutes, and that was total suffering during the last 10 of those minutes.

[c.g._eads]

no, the first 20 minutes suck. you have to keep watching. it gets good. i'm telling ya. now you have to go rent it again. if you don't like it i'll refund you the price of the rental.

...

okay that's a lie. but go watch it again.

[David G. Smith]

The best script I've read in a long time is about these two guys on a message board that get to aguing about computer animated movies and end up in a bloody shoot-out in a warehouse. Throw in a car chase and a lesbian sex scene and you'd make a bizzilion $$$!

[c.g._eads]

and just where might this warehouse be?

[David G. Smith]

I was thinking it might be behind a funeral home and right next to the lesbian's house. :thumbsup:

[TC]

Listen to finding nemo before you say the script wasn't well done. Pixar (not disney) comes up with the entire story. They write intelligent scripts that entertain kids and relate to adults. They are going to do even greater things as time goes on. (free from the Mickey organization of crime)
I agree with you... but you'll eat those words once you see Cars.

Though everything up til now (Toy Story - The Incredibles) has been great.

[Owen]

The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
Revenge of the Sith


...hey, somebody had to say it.

[Super Trooper]

Fight Club.

Oh wait...it has to be a good movie too?

Nevermind then. Cuz..ya..know...that movie was shit.

Yeah, I said it.

The Usual Suspects too.

What are ya gonna do about it?

Wanna fight?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

[TC]

Wow, really? :huh:

[reservoir]

Blair Witch Project? Did it even HAVE a script? I mean, back in tha' day it was hip and *indie* and all that jazz....then went on to make 140.5 mil domestic. I'll definitely give it credit for the being the greatest marketing ploy ever with the use of the internet + word of mouth to gain such popularity and an instant cult status.

~reservoir~

[HorseFilms]

That's exactly right, reservoir. It DIDN'T have a script. The actors were given rough direction that was hidden from the other actors. It made a shitload of money, so that should probably be at the top of the list.

[Rasquachemedia]

The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
Revenge of the Sith


...hey, somebody had to say it.

Yeah the script was just horrible for this second trilogy, what a shame :cry: I thinkt he world was so excited about it, I know I was and it was just all downhill. Out of obligation I had to see them. My childhood memories brought me to them, but after seeing Menace I knew they would all be bad.

I feel Lucas just got comfortable or lazy, I've even speculated that he wanted to make a point, "I could make crap and make bank at the same time." Or maybe he just wanted to test out some new technology or just capitalize off his success to advance ILM.

In either case, they all pretty much sucked (even the acting was bad).

[Kennedy]

I have to disagree slightly Rasq. Every one of the Star Wars movie has AWEFUL dialogue. While the overall story lines and characters were okay in the first three movies, the dialogue has always been laughable. George Lucas should be prevented by law from ever writing dialogue.

[Walter_Graff]

"We all agree that the script is critical . . .

But is it always? Here's a start of a list of movies which did well in the varying ways that movies can do well, but had lousy scripts:"

Yes it is. What you are referring to is a genre of moviemaking that has always done well regardless of how bad the film is, partially because they spend between 70 and 100 million dollars marketing it, and partially because they use big stars. Well I take that back. Actually big stars have little to do with it, it's more the genre that Spielberg started with Jaws that every movie since in that genre imitates; mystery, conflict, and suspense blown out of proportion. Flight Plan got panned horribly (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/reviews/?id=1902&p=.htm) but it stars Jodie foster and this is the fall season of these blockbuster films. It did $24,646,000 this weekend. The worst film with a big star draws crowds but it's really the Mo of this method of moviemaking that has folks coming back. At the level of the people here, it is a comparison that has no relevance. If you don't have a good script all you have is a DVD no one wants to watch or does because they are your relative and feel guilty.

[CallaghanFilms]

Gents,

I would like to throw another name into this hat...
Cocktail.
Cruise, at the height of his fame, picked a shit script as his next vehicle. Amazingly the resulting film was none too shabby. (It's ok to admit it...who among us, after all, could resist the sacred canon that is " Coughlin's law"?) :thumbsup:

[Walter_Graff]

I think Cruise is a good actor. His best work was Magnolia. He played himself.

[Rasquachemedia]

I haven't seen Magnolia's, but you think he did better in that than Born on the Fourth of July?

[J.R. Hudson]

What defines a bad script exactly? Another very subjective subject matter.

I see films listed here that I personally dug:

Titanic and Cocktail (no not the fockin GODFATHER but enjoyable no less)

Why are we so hard on films; crap is one thing but I see films being thrown out that are good entertainment.

Walter? You know TOM CRUISE?

I love Cruise; I can care less about his personal religious beliefs. The guy is a great talent.

[CallaghanFilms]

I think Cruise is a good actor. His best work was Magnolia. He played himself.

Here, here!! I couldn't agree more, Walter. He's definitely underrated. Like you said Magnolia was an excellent performance. As was Jerry Maguire (which he got some credit for); and Rain Man (for which he got none.) Personally I have always been partial to Interview With the Vampire (and I always loved how Anne Rice had to eat her own words regarding his being "too all-American" and "totally wrong" in being cast as the vampire Lestat.)

Anyway, my $0.02 worth. :beer:

[Walter_Graff]

yes I do. The person who wrote the movie knows a lot about how real world people act and wrote some fantastic characters. Cruise was cast as the same personality fixation he is in real life so he could only play the role well.

Crusie's template for how he reacts (3 with a four wing) to the world is here:

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/TypeThree.asp

[Walter_Graff]

"What defines a bad script exactly? Another very subjective subject matter. "


Exactly. The truth is no blockbuster ever had a great script but that didn't stop folks from running out to see it. This genre of movies is about escapism. It's about fantasy more than reality and most of the summer and winter blockbusters are exactly that.

[Walter_Graff]

I do not know Cruise personally but have worked with him on a number of projects. He is the same enneagram as my wife so I see his clearly. He is a good actor. he hasn't always been in the best films, nor cast well, but when he is, I think he is great.

Unrelated: Who was it here that pointed out that a TV program I shot is included on the Casino DVD.

[J.R. Hudson]

Oh god; let;s not start with the enneagram again

I disagree; there ahve been many blockbusters with great scripts (IMO)

Jaws
Star Wars 1
Titanic
The Entire LORD OF THE RINGS trilogy
Pirates of the Carribean
The Sixth Sense
Meet the Fockers
Beverly Hills Cop
Ghostbusters
Back to the Future
The Mummy

I could list a ton more. To me; these films rock. What about them makes their SCRIPTS bad? (And back it up with some meat will ya?)

[Walter_Graff]

here is my take:

Jaws had a lousy script. It was novel to me cause it was the first to do what it did but watching it today its anything but a great script. Why: Just doesn't hold interest to me today. Perhaps because it's so dated.

Star Wars one had a quirkiness and good character development and he copied a 30s serial style so I would give you that.

Titanic had a horrible script. In fact they cut the movie so poorly down from five hours that they left things in the movie that had no close. Nevertheless it was fun movie to watch (escapism)

Never saw a Lord movie. Not my taste.

Pirate had Depp. Script was stupid but Depp is a great actor. The guy could read off a cereal box and make it great.

Sixth sense did have a good script. And Bruce Willis, another favorite of mine.

Never saw Meet the Fockers. I hate Dinero so would never watch something that he is in.

Beverly hills cop was a horrible script. Once again it was Eddie Murphy that made that movie tolerable and even then it could have used some steroids. Once again watching it today I see how sophomoric it is. BUt that works for the film.

Ghostbusters was also novel. Watch it today and see how silly it is. Great script, no. Fun yes. I worked on the opening scene shot on 1st ave and 77th Street in NY.

Back to a Future. Once again Enjoyable. great script? not to me.

The Mummy? I liked it. Award winning? No it's just a summer blockbuster.

[J.R. Hudson]

Nice analysis Walter and I have to say I generally agree.

You hate DeNiro? OMG. Why?

[Walter_Graff]

His best film to me was King of Comedy. Outside of that, he's the same character in every movie. I worked with him and never liked him all that much and don't find him as anything but Dinero when he plays in a film.

[c.g._eads]

walter, come on. Back To The Future is one of the top five best "Big Budget Entertainment" scripts of all time. There is no script that competes with that one as far as set-ups and payoffs. The concept is great. The story is awesome. The dialogue scenes are hilarious. And what movie moves quicker than Back To The Future? Not a great script? How is this not a great script?

[Walter_Graff]

I'll conceded because come to think of it, if it was on Tv right now I could watch it over and over. It's a great combination of character and plot. Actually Fox is great in the roll.

[David Jimerson]

"We all agree that the script is critical . . .

But is it always? Here's a start of a list of movies which did well in the varying ways that movies can do well, but had lousy scripts:"

Yes it is. What you are referring to is a genre of moviemaking that has always done well regardless of how bad the film is, partially because they spend between 70 and 100 million dollars marketing it, and partially because they use big stars. Well I take that back. Actually big stars have little to do with it, it's more the genre that Spielberg started with Jaws that every movie since in that genre imitates; mystery, conflict, and suspense blown out of proportion. Flight Plan got panned horribly (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/reviews/?id=1902&p=.htm) but it stars Jodie foster and this is the fall season of these blockbuster films. It did $24,646,000 this weekend. The worst film with a big star draws crowds but it's really the Mo of this method of moviemaking that has folks coming back. At the level of the people here, it is a comparison that has no relevance. If you don't have a good script all you have is a DVD no one wants to watch or does because they are your relative and feel guilty.

I wasn't talking ONLY about box office. You might recall that Titanic took home a slew of statues as well?

Besides, I think you missed the point. I didn't start this thread trying to argue that script doesn't matter. I'm just pointing out notable exceptions to the rule. The point: fun.

[thejessicastar1]

How about "The Outsiders?" I don't think I have ever hated a movie more. I don't know that it was a blockbuster, but a lot of people consider it a classic. According to the IMDB, it made $25m, which wasn't too bad in 1983-84. The story itself is just awful (although I haven't read the book, I've seen the play and it was bad as well), and though it has all the brat-packers in it, none of them can make it even remotely good.

[Rasquachemedia]

Just saw Magnolia. Movie sucked and thought Cruise was better in Born on the Fourth of July. The way they used the music in Magnolia was just annoying. Its a long movie, so I started surfing the net while watching. Stuff on the internet was more interesting to watch and listen to.

I'm a fan of the Outsiders, might be more for nostalgia. But the cinematography is good. The acting isn't i agree with that. I like the story though and was a fan of the book before the movie too.

I agree that Deniro has been typcaste, but not too many can out act him. Sure he's done some pretty stupid movies, that has been the trend with some really great actors (Pacino for instance).

[NO CA$H]

Rambo First blood part II and Rambo 3

[David G. Smith]

I have kind of a different take on this. Most of the films disscussed are in many ways Hollywood "bread and butter". So so scripts are given to highly skilled craftsman, who make movies that are marketable and in many instances become hits. That is what Hollywood does so well, in many cases.

My examples of great films from crappy scripts would be first, "Apocalypse Now". Check out "Hearts of Darkness: A Filmmaker's Apocalypse" to see the process. Coopola went into the jungle with a mediocre action adventure script and came out the other end with a masterpiece.

My next example is "Annie Hall". In the shooting script, Annie was a minor character and this film was made in the editiing. Check out Ralph Rosenblum's book, "When the Shooting Stops" for details about the film.

My last example is "High Noon". From what I have read, the movie was unwatchable until Zinneman, cut it down to real time, again made in editing.

I agree that script is key, but I also think that the key to a great film script or great movie, in most instances is not just plot, but is character, structure and that "X" factor, that can not be put into words. It is in many ways, almost magical.

[Rasquachemedia]

rocky II