buyer's remorse? come on!

[Hyperbolic]

Man, I tell ya, it's tough to earn any respect talking about any other cam 'round here. Entirely unexpected? Not with the name of the forum. ;) But I suspect I speak for the group when I say that those of us who are enjoying the FX1/Z1 aren't feeling buyer's remorse, as John Hudson and others have surmised.

I post here because I like the DVX and this forum. It's really become the starting point for most do-it-yourself filmmakers (and prospective filmmakers). Unfortunately, I feel like a lot of people are dismissing Sony HDV cams out of hand when they really don't know what they're missing (this doesn't include Barry, btw).

The new HD Panny cam could change everything, and if it comes in at the same price as the Z1 while offering 24P, anyone who just bought a Z1 may well feel regret. But that ain't happened yet, and by the time the new cam comes out, I will likely have owned and operated an FX1 for a year or more (got it in 11/04). No shame in that game!

I'm sure "I doth protest too much" or whatever, but I have been so impressed with the results of 1080i HDV that I am trying to earn it respect in the hardest place possible -- the hearts of DVX users. It doesn't have to be your favorite cam or even your cam of choice, but it's legit. That's all I'm saying.

Even Barry and John admit that great work may well come from it, and that's all I think I'm really saying, too. It may not be the way everyone wants to go about making that great work, but it's viable. For some of us, it's preferred. And as long as that's not gotten lost in the shuffle, I'll happily shut the f--- up.

[scharky]

Hyperbolic
You seem to be starting a lot of posts that keep maintaining the same message. I don't dissagree with you, I feel no reason to diss teh FX1 or Z1 for what they are, and I am sure that many people will be creating some fantastic looking films on them. However, you keep posting telling everyone else how uniformed they are and keep reasuring yourself that the camera is actually a good camera.

Well let me just end it all right here.
I believe you, I really do, so stop telling yourself that it's a good camera and go do something with it.

Personally I feel that too many people are talking and waiting and nobody is doing any actual work. Do I want to see what Panasonic has to offer? sure I do. Will I be buying the camera when it comes out, probably not, can't afford it, have too many school loans to pay first. Be content with what you have people. Don't covet your neighbors camera. Don't flaunt your own camera. Flaut your work. Don't tell me this camera is so good because of this this and that, show me.
I have seen some great looking footage from the fx1, however it seems to be very few and far inbetween. An I'm not talking tests, (hey look at the seagul I shot (filmed :D)) give me some content please.
Just remember, every camera has it's strong points and weak points. Don't look at the limitations, look at how you can use that particular camera to the best of it's abilites. In the end, if you focus on the photographic elements of your piece, the story the acting, your work could be better than most films actually shot on film.
Don't let the camera be your limiting factor by continually telling yourself that you made the right decision.

BTW, the last part is directed at so much at hyperbolic as it is to all of us.

[J.R. Hudson]

Nice thread. Don't take my BUYERS REMORSE commnet too seriously. I guess I do support the DVX100 (specifically 24p) and wonder why anyone would pick another camera that does not have 24p.

Yes, thats it.

24p. Thats what it is for me. HD is HD is HD and with 60i its really clear looking 60i. Give me HD 24p and I'm drooling. Give me HD 24p with the DVX Cinegamma and Im freakin trippin out.

[Hyperbolic]

scharky,

http://www.hyperbolicfilms.com

Posted the link in an earlier thead, actually, and I've been busy working until a much needed break this week.

I apologize for the repetition, but I often have to restate my moderate overall position when making a specific point (like buyer's remorse is a little silly) so as to avoid getting the major smackdown as some kind of Sony fiend or some such thing (which I'm not).

Thanks, John. I hear you loud and clear.

[Hyperbolic]

Just got this email from someone:

Hi!
I got to your page via link you posted on dvxuser.
I liked your film. The picture looks great.
I'm curious - was it shot on film or video?
And if it's video - was it dvx or fx1? What software did you
post-produce it with?
Thank you and good luck in the future.

Now I know I've got a lot to learn and a long way to go, but it sure is nice to have someone ask if it was film or video. ;D

To answer the questions for all who might ask, "glue" (the short film referenced) it was shot on the FX1 and edited/color-corrected in Premiere Pro with Aspect HD. I generated a 24P Quicktime file that I compressed using Sorenson Squeeze for the web, and I generated a 24P MPEG2 file for DVD.

[ChuckS]

edited/color-corrected in Premiere Pro with Aspect HD.
Hyperbolic - you are my new best friend. How well did PP work with Aspect HD? I am very interested in ProspectHD and have been trolling the user groups for information. But what I hear mostly is wild speculation.

Any feedback on your editing experience would be greatly appreciated... ;D

[scharky]

Hyperbolic
My above statement was not to say that you are not working, however I just feel that time can be spent better on showing your work rather than everbody fighting about who has the best camera. Your site looked great, and I really enjoyed Glue, it was very well composed and edited. I have no beef with the Fx1 or the Z1 or Xl2, and know that each camera was chosen for personal reasons of each person. hopefully those people did not just buy on the comments of those on a users forum, but to each his own. By the end of the day, it is the work that speaks for the artist, not the camera.

[J.R. Hudson]

I watched Glue and it was a very nice short. Well done and first rate talent. :) And scharky has a valid point; we all need to just work and have fun with our art.

[Hyperbolic]

Thanks for the kind words, all!



Hyperbolic - you are my new best friend. *How well did PP work with Aspect HD? *


Aspect HD worked pretty well. It's virtually identical to working with Premiere in SD, with the addition of a few more effects and encoder options. The biggest benefit is that it's realtime for most effects. Of course, the 1.5.1 Premiere plugin just released and appears to do many of the same things (and more, like batch capture and export to tape), so I'd check that out before going with the extra $$ for Aspect HD.

[ChuckS]

Thanks for the kind words, all!


Aspect HD worked pretty well.
When you say pretty well, what didn't you like about it?

I'm looking at ProspectHD for editing HD, I believe Premier 1.5.1 edits HDV. Actually what interests me the most about Cineform's Codec's are that they are independent from the camare manufacturers and NLE developers. That might enable me to develop a workflow where I have more control over the look.

How was the image quality? How was the stability and integration with Premier?

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions

~chuck

[Hyperbolic]

When you say pretty well, what didn't you like about it?


Hey chuck,

Sorry I was vague before. Here's what I didn't like:
1) When I played my footage in the monitor window, some of the effects wouldn't play back on my timeline. This included simple brightness and contrast adjustments, cross-dissolves, etc. Now, when I manually played the footage via the shuttle, I could see all my effects fine, but not when I just hit play.
2) HDLink is the component that allowed me to capture footage from the camera, and it was tedious as all get-out not to have batch capture available. It also seemed buggy and crashed on me 2x. This has been alleviated with the 1.5.1 update, though, as we can now capture directly through Premiere -- and in batch.

Other than that, I really, really liked how non-intrusive Aspect HD was; I really felt as though I was working with SD even though it was HD! My render times on outputting material were also very good.

My system is a P4 3.2Ghz w/ 2gig RAM and a 500GB RAID 0.



How was the image quality? How was the stability and integration with Premier?


Outstanding, outstanding, and outstanding. The image quality... wow. I think the Cineform codec, however they did it, is just incredible. It truly appears lossless. My understanding (like third hand, though) is that the Mac solutions may not be as lossless, but I have no evidence myself. And Premiere never died on me or acted weirdly. Smooth integration.



I'm looking at ProspectHD for editing HD, I believe Premier 1.5.1 edits HDV.


I know Prospect HD is their super-high-end ultra-pro package, but I haven't used it, only Aspect HD.

Again, while I don't want to aggravate the Cineform folks who've been great to us, I would check out the 1.5.1 plugin that's free first. It's all based on Cineform-licensed technology (like their codec). If you're frustrated by that (and it appears to be a little slower), I'd definitely recommend a Cineform upgrade.

[Michael_Bott]

Hyperbolic, how did the MPEG2s turn out? Could you still see the value of HDV from a DVD or does the resolution take too much of a hit?

[Dremmwel]

Hi guys, Just got my FX1E yesterday, and I must say that I am really happy with it. Previously I had an XL1S and made some test under the same conditions in HDV downconverted to SD, I must that there is nothing to compare. the picutre quality, and details is outstanding.

the only thing that can be compared with the XL1s is the Cineframe VS frame mode...there identical and suffer from same problems... otherwise, I was amazed with the lens on the FX1, that has a good wide angle and allows you to play with the DOP... the sound quality is good, I didn't notice any problem...

Got the new HD update from adobe but it seems that my PC needs an Update too, after 10 second of capture, everything slows down, and the process stops...

For SD, I downconvert with FX1 Downconverter and I use my Matrox RTX100, and I get a very good result....

More test to come....

[Hyperbolic]

Hyperbolic, how did the MPEG2s turn out? Could you still see the value of HDV from a DVD or does the resolution take too much of a hit?

I find the HD-originated MPEG2s to be sharper and crisper on a DVD than the SD work I've done. This is entirely my own subjective opinion, but I really do see a positive difference by starting from HD resolution and downconverting to an SD format.

And I don't think it's just me, either. If you watch a DVD that started on 35mm film, you can tell the difference between it and a DVD that started on SD video. You can still see the value of improved resolution even though they both wind up in the same format. I find the same to be true of HD.

When you all have your new HD DVXs, I think you may agree.

[Michael_Bott]

Thanks for the feedback, Hyperbolic - gives me food for thought. Sometime this year I'm going to embark on a project that will depend largely on stunning landscapes. I've noticed that with the best will in the world, SD DV landscapes are disappointing and even more so when rendered to DVD. Glad to hear there is at least a subjective improvement in resolution - thing is, HDV sooner or DVCPRO-HD later?

[Hyperbolic]

Glad to hear there is at least a subjective improvement in resolution - thing is, HDV sooner or DVCPRO-HD later?

If you can wait, I'd at least wait to see the Panasonic announcement, but I don't think you'll be sorry if you go HDV.

Then again, why trust me? Maybe you should ask a 30yr DP how awesome the new HDV Z1 is (this link was posted on http://www.hdforindies.com, a phenomenal site by a fellow Austinite):

http://www.cyndigreening.com/more/SonyHVRZ1-LG.mov

He even addresses sunsets and the like!