February 1st, 2006

[ShannonRawls]

So many places, I hear people bashing HDV, bashing DVCPRO-HD, bashing FX1/Z1U, bashing 1080i, bashing 720p. Etc...
Since 2005 seems to be the dawn of a new day in Digital Video in reference to HD, please....let's save this thread until 2/1/2006 and count the votes.

In this thread, place your bets on who will win the HiDef war.

Reply with your opinion. Now, c'mon people, we all know who 'really' thinks 'what', based on their past responses, tests, posts, arguments and claims. So don't come here trying to be politically correct singing cuam-baya talking about "let's wait and see, everything i've said in the past is speculative" and all that crap. MAN UP and don't be a punk. Say what you feel. Simply state what you believe NOW, post it HERE, let's not make this a big discusion forum. save discussions for other posts. Respect eachothers opinion and we'll see how it goes in 1 years time. *smile*

To make things easier for you, I will start it off.....
_________________________________________________

SHANNON W. RAWLS, Producer
- I believe 1080i will be the majority standard for Broadcast Television throughout the entire world and will remain to be until a HIGHER resultion option becomes available.
- I believe 720p HD cameras for television production will never be a standard of the majority and therefore be forced to up-convert to 1080i to be broadcasted naturally making better sense to originate your projects from a camera that shoots in 1080i.
- I believe for NOW and the FUTURE that anyone who shoots HD 720p is doing so because of a financial/economic reasons, and if "Money was no object" they would rather shoot 1080i. Which brings me to the new HDV format....
- I believe the Sony FX1 & Z1 HDV cameras are here to stay and will become staple equipment in most motion picture production.
- I believe that will be part of the inventory list in more production companies then any "comparable" camera made by it's competitors by Feb 1st, 2006.
- I believe the High Definition Video format, called "HDV" will infact be accepted for HD broadcast, and will be allowed as a master format to larger Cable HD networks such as HDNet, Discovery HD, ESPN HD, and others of the like by Feb 1st, 2006.
- I believe, regardless of numbers, comparisons and test charts, that the "HDV" format will in the next 12 months become the 2nd most accepted format next to HDCAM for Television broadcast. (ducking)
- I believe many TV shows that currently originate their footage in 35mm or HD will choose to use the "HDV" format as an alternate capturing format over any other competing format. Yes, that means, more then DVCPRO-HD on the new upcoming HDX camera or any other type of hybrid HD format that will be comparable to "HDV".
- I believe (and the numbers will soon show) that Sony will sell and continue to sell more HDV FX1/Z1U cameras then Panasonic or JVC until Sony themselves comes out with a newer version of this camera.
- I believe we will see a million dollar+ motion picture movie on the big screen shot with the SOny HDV cameras before any of its competitors. Which brings me to my next issue of Modes...
- I believe the CineFrame 24 (CF24) mode, despite its hate-mail and naysayers, will become an acceptable mode to shoot in with the Sony HD cameras.
- I believe one of those million-dollar+ movies mentioned above will have originated it's footage in CF24 mode and move on to be a blockbuster hit and the 'masses' will not care one bit and they will say "It looked great!"
- I believe the producer of that million-dollar hit will be me (dammit shannon, wake up!) *smile*

MY NAME IS SHANNON W. RAWLS, and that is what I believe
______________________________

If I am wrong on February 1st, 2006. I'll eat my words. *smile*

Now.....what do YOU believe?

- ShannonRawls.com

[yellowdog]

I believe you are insane ;D

[yellowdog]

ok, here's what I really think. I believe you are trying to reassure yourself that it was a good idea to spend almost 5 grand on a camera that now, after playing around with it for a little while you may not really think it is all that and a bag of chips.I believe that the possibility of losing half a second of video in a dropout is totally unacceptable.I believe that there are too many versions of Hd tv sets to choose from.What the hell is "Hd ready", "Hd built in", "enhanced definition"????? What??????? ???Why do have to spend 2 to 3 grand on an HD tv and still have to buy an Hd set top box for it?I believe watching some programs in 16:9 and seeing the commercials come on in 4:3 sucks.I believe that the cable guy trying to tell me that it's better to get digital cable for $20.00 dollars a month more than what I pay now for 5 channels out of I don't know how many is total B.S. I Believe Chris Rock when He went to the Magic Johnson Theatre yesterday and asked everyone what they thought of or had even seen any of those flicks in the running for an Oscar and they all looked at him in bewilderment.I believe Chris Rock should host every damn awards show period.Screw all you Hollywood A-listers! ;D I believe that it's totally stupid that I have to shoot my live shots for news in widescreen, yet shoot to tape in 4:3.That hasn't bitten any of us in the ass more than once in a run and gun breaking news situation. :P I believe that you believe cineframe 24 sucks. and hearing all the rumors from Panasonic about their version of 24p Hd, P2 ,and how it will blow away anything Sony can come up with, that you my friend......should have waited.That is what I believe.I like this thread. Good idea :)
david

[Barry_Green]

Was there a gauntlet thrown down here? *I thought I saw... oh, here it is.

Okay, I'll pick it up. *I'll try to address similar points to yours so that we have a clear picture of the full discussion.

_________________________________________________
Barry W. Green, Producer
I believe 1080i will be the majority standard in the USA, and I believe that 720/50p will be the sole HD standard for broadcast in Europe, until such time as 1080/50p becomes viable. *I believe Europe will completely reject interlaced high definition.

- *I believe 720p HD cameras (such as the VariCam) will dramatically out-sell 1080i HD cameras in dramatic/narrative/commercial television production. *I believe that by 2/1/2006, the Varicam will enjoy an installed-user-base advantage of 3x as many as the CineAlta.

Furthermore, I believe 1080i will remain a staple of live/reality show/news production, and 720/24p and 1080/24p will become the dominant forms of video origination for sitcoms and dramatic series. *720p will be used by those stations already broadcasting in 720p and throughout Europe.


- *I believe that for NOW and the FUTURE, anyone who shoots HD 720p is doing so because they prefer the look, and the flexibility that comes from variable frame rates. *If money were no object they would rather shoot 1080/24p, assuming there were a camera that offered variable frame rates. *I believe that there is no film producer, commercial shooter, or other professional production personnel who would prefer 1080i over 1080/24p for shooting films or commercials. *I believe there are several TV production crews who would prefer 1080i over 1080/24p or 720p for their particular types of shows, being game shows, reality TV, news, or other shows that benefit from the "immediacy" of 60i/60p video.

- *I believe that rather than becoming dominant, the Sony FX1 and Z1 HDV cameras will be rendered basically irrelevant to motion picture production on April 18, 2005. *The FX1/Z1 will only be considered for motion picture production after that date by a) people who already own it, b) die-hard Sony brand fanatics, or c) people who prefer the interlaced look over the progressive look, d) people intending to shoot dozens/hundreds of tapes, or e) people who simply have to shoot HD prior to the actual release of the Panasonic camera.

- *I believe that the Z1 will be part of the inventory list in documentary production companies, but that there will be far, far more "comparable" Panasonic HD cameras in the inventories of production companies who produce commercials and films.

- *I believe that HDV will in fact be accepted for HD broadcast, or at the very least HDV-originated material will be acceptable once it's transferred to an appropriate broadcast-station's in-house format (whether HDCAM or DVCPRO-HD).

- *I believe, regardless of numbers, comparisons and test charts, that HDV will be a minority player in the landscape of television broadcast, far, far trailing the prevailing standards of HDCAM, DVCPRO-HD, Digital Betacam, DVCPRO50/25, and BetaSP.

- *I believe that *practically no* TV shows that currently originate their footage in 35mm will choose to use the 1080i HDV format*, although several (perhaps even many) will choose to use the new Panasonic DVCPRO-HD camera. *I believe that some shows that currently originate on interlaced HD will instead adopt the HDV format. *(*note: this may change if JVC introduces the rumored 1080/24P HDV camera).

- *I believe (and the numbers will very much show) that Panasonic will sell at least twice as many of its upcoming DVCPRO-HD camera as Sony will sell of its Z1.

- *I believe that because there will be more DVCPRO-HD cameras out there, the sheer statistical numerical superiority will mean that it will be more likely to see the million+ dollar picture originating from a DVCPRO-HD shooter rather than a Z1 shooter. *Note: this prediction can only be put into play once the Panasonic is on the market; it's possible that someone will succeed with the Z1 prior to that (heck, Blair Witch was shot on a Hi-8 camcorder!)

- *I believe that CineFrame 24 will be rejected by all professional shooters, once they really begin to understand the mode.

My name is Barry W. Green, this is what I believe, and I'm not afraid to say it, and I look forward to reviewing the results on February 1, 2006.
_________________________________________________

[Hyperbolic]

-I believe that the first 1080 24P cam in ANY format that costs under $8000 will become the low budget standard for years.

-I believe that until then both sides of the 1080i/720p debate will be able to claim superiority and certain advantages.

-I believe that most pros/shows will stick with anything 24P.

-I believe that the first great HD-originated low budget flick shot on a sub-$10k cam WILL come from a Sony HDV cam, if only because it's out first.

-I believe that flick will demonstrate again that 1080i can be converted/manipulated pretty easily into a very compelling/dramatic picture, even to the eyes of 24P lovers.

-I believe that most DVX users will show brand loyalty and stick with the Panny HD cam, and that it will outsell the Sony HDV products as a result.

-I believe you should learn the art of shooting on the solution that best balances cost vs. performance/results and that HDV cams will provide that.

-I sure as h-e-double-hockey-sticks believe that viewers won't really give a sh*t what cam was used as long as it looks interesting.

[scharky]

My name is ------------ and I am an Alcho. . . wait a minute, wrong forum. I am a student currently earning my BFA in Photography.

-I believe that for dramatic/theatrical work, any form of progressive scan is and will be the prefered medium, and yes this means 720p over 1080i.

-I beleive that Panasonic has the intentions of releasing this cameras with the film maker in mind (finally) and that producers, directors, DP's and all other film makers alike will embrace it for what it is.

-I do no believe that the HDX camera will be the chosen camera for weddings, or other event photography. I think the Sony's will lead the way in that field.

-I believe that it is not too late for the Panasonic as has been stated by several other forum members, and that this camera will be accepted widely by the masses as the camera of choice for all filmkers searching for an affordable digital medium whether by purchase or rental.

-I believe, however, that people will still be creating great work on the DVX by 2006, I beleive that the FX1, and the Xl2 will also be widely used for dramitic work by 2006.

-I beleive that the Z1 will be the camera to take the largest hit by the HDX and will only have a future use for 60i applications, nothing more.

My name is ------------------, and I believe that each camera has it's use. I beleive that many cameras are and will be used for what they are not meant to be simply because of brand loyalty and convienince.

See you in 2006 ;)

[J.R. Hudson]

Man up and dont be a punk? A true test of ones man hood? LOL Uh, okay.

I think Barry and David said it best. *

My name is John Hudson; and I don't really give a flying....

HD HD HD

When are 'we' (We being the majority non-rich persons) be able to afford ann HD set (and add-ons as mentoined by David). *I have never professed to be schooled in the technical aspects but have ALWAYS said "Who owns High Def televisions?" *I know one person; the couple are in their mid 50's and the TV isnt even set up correctly.

I'm a student of Barry Green; whatevr he says; is gospel in my book. *I have never read a more unbiased take than his own; the man is about the facts.

The fact is "Who gives a flying f*** what will be dominant in 2006. Technology will constantly change and the real task is choosing the right tool for the right job. I could care less if it's Sony, Canon, Pani or JVC. Whichever one suits my needs is gonna win and I could care less if only 4% of the industry uses it."

IN closing? NO, I dont think HD is it. NOt yet and not by 2006. I'm going out on a limb here, but the people that cant afford an HD set today probally cant afford it 1 year from now. It does look stunning (I saw an MLB game at THE FIELD in the GASLAMP over the summer and I was amazed at the rez. BUt it looked like really killer video. IF it was affordable, I'd most definatley get a set. I just cant afford one and surely am not gonna invest in a camera; right now TODAY, the DVX is my baby. NExt year? I have a feeling it will be the DVX2; if not, Ill hold onto the DVX until that Magic Cam comes out for me.

Shannon; sounds to me like buyers remorse.

[J.R. Hudson]

And hyperbloic says it the best:

"I sure as h-e-double-hockey-sticks believe that viewers won't really give a sh*t what cam was used as long as it looks interesting. "

So true. We are so concerned with the tech stuff and te reality is; are we entertaining you? You, the audience? Cause if you aint got that; it wont matter if you shoot XL1 or Arriflex.

[Zim]

I believe I'm going to wait and see what comes out in the next few months.

[ShannonRawls]

Man up and dont be a punk? *A true test of ones man hood? *LOL *Uh, okay.
I'm a student of Barry Green; whatevr he says; is gospel in my book.

Yes....don't you think so. *Say one thing in person, but Lie on the Internet. *Or sSmile in my face, but talk behind ....etc.... *saying one thing one day, and changing your words to suit the conversation another day.... If a man staying true to his "WORD" and beliefs is not a test of MAN-HOOD, like I have done, like your Pastor/Teacher/Sinse'/Jedi Master Mr. Barry Green has done, oh nevermind Mr. Hudson, you don't get it. *
LOL


Shannon; sounds to me like buyers remorse.

LMAO! lololol. *Dude, I bought a Z1 when they werent even availbale yet. LOL *Additionally, I have sitting in my closet TWO Xl1s's, A JVC DV500 and my DVX100a (probably had it before you were sleeping with your "DVX baby" LOL.), a TRV17, an S-VHS cam, my very first VHS camcorder and a bunch of Hi-8 and 8mm junk. *Da heck you talkin about Buyers remorse? *LOL, what is that? *I've never experienced 'remorse' for something I bought that costs under $20,000. *LOL. *Now if you wanna talk about that Lexus GS300 I bought instead of the MB S500. *or maybe my first house because I was anxious and accepted a 10% finance rate...then you can come at me about Buyers Remorse. *But for a freakin Handycam?? LOLOL *I'll probably be the first to own the new Panasonic HDX camera too, cause I like the specs it has and seems to be a great "TOOL" to make movies for my productions @ www.BeOut.com. LOLOLOL

Just state what you BELEIVE for Feb 1st, 2006. *Let's discuss stuff elsewhere. *gee wiz.

- Shannon W. Rawls
Oh......and John....now you know TWO people who owns a Hi Def television. *smile*

[J.R. Hudson]

What the hell are you talking about?

[Gary_McClurg]

I want to be sitting on my front porch of my farmhouse over looking the river and my land. Drinking hot chocolate and wondering if I should go edit or write my latest film.

Or if I really get lucky have a beautiful woman come rub down my tired neck muscles.

[J.R. Hudson]

Now that I can understand. :)

[princigalli]

We'll see wjat Europe does, but for now Sony made 1080i available to the market. Panasonic slept and they are not going to catch up on this one. 2006? too late. by that time everybody will be equiped for 1080i. Later, whtn EU decides on a standard, things may change. But Panasonic is no longer in a position to change things anymore. Maybe JVC can.

[SergejIvanovits]

My name is Sergej Ivanovits. I'm a heatman.
- I believe 1080i is a winner just right now.
- I believe the next winner going to be a 1080p in 2009
- I also believe I'm going to use whatever equipment I can to make money.

[yellowdog]

- Shannon W. Rawls
Oh......and John....now you know TWO people who owns a Hi Def television.

Is it in your Lexus? ;D

[ChuckS]

- Shannon W. Rawls
Oh......and John....now you know TWO people who owns a Hi Def television.

Is it in your Lexus? ;D

Make that three - and that aint no Lexus ;D

http://www.daframegallery.com/FerrariHD

[J.R. Hudson]

Thats a damn cool car (Even though Im a truck dude). What is that?

[ChuckS]

Ferrari F-360 Spider

[J.R. Hudson]

Damn. ChuckS BOND. :D

[J.R. Hudson]

LOL

Is that some poor bastard inthe background working onthat piece of crap mini van? *LOL *And Chuck rolls up in the Spider. *Awesome.

[Rezzie]

Where is the drool smiley?

[STORYTELLER32]

In all honesty, I think everyone who's debating this is looking at it from the wrong perspective. Right now, today, with standard broadcast definition, we watch movies on HBO, cable, DVD's, etc. which were shot on film. Film, which has more definition than any video available, right?

None of us are watching it at it's full original definition. But the depth and detail and visual qualities are still retained after it's down converted, yes? Since all of us are obviously talking about dramatic narrative works when it comes to wanting 24p (because news broadcasts, sporting events, documentaries, etc. are all better served with the classic video look) the whole point of the camera is to give us a great artistic image to look at in the temporal movement of 24p so as to get the audience to gloss over what it was shot on and just get lost in the narrative (and/or music video). Hard to do dramatic narrative in classic video look and not feel like a soap opera or reality show, right?

To me, THAT'S the point of HD 24p video. To come as close to film look for that purpose without the cost associated with shooting on film. I seem to agree with John Hudson on this point that it will take quite some time before HD TV's are in every home in america simply because of price point. The day they come down to the cost for SD TV's is the day you'll start seeing most average Joe's owning one.

Tune in next week, same bat time, same bat station.

[yellowdog]

ChuckS wrote

"Make that three - and that aint no Lexus"

Very nice. :o

[Zack Birlew]

Actually, I've got 4 HDTV's, one 55" HDTV flatscreen in my brother's room at my main house, one 75" HDTV in the living room, one 37" HDTV in my mom's room, and one 27" HDTV flatscreen here in my dorm room..... :) I like weekend visits to home....


...... and mom only buys Mercedes (except the one Volkswagon Bug she bought for dad for his B-day)....

[STORYTELLER32]

Actually, I've got 4 HDTV's, one 55" HDTV flatscreen in my brother's room at my main house, one 75" HDTV in the living room, one 37" HDTV in my mom's room, and one 27" HDTV flatscreen here in my dorm room..... :) I like weekend visits to home....

Damn! You want to fund a short film?? ;D

[Zack Birlew]

Damn! You want to fund a short film?? *;D

LOL, I would like to, but college is currently kind of the knife in my side, so I can't really get all of my moviemaking stuff together. I'll probably be able to do a lot more once I get these goshdarned requirement classes out of the way :).

[Jeff_Chandler]

We'll see wjat Europe does, but for now Sony made 1080i available to the market. Panasonic slept and they are not going to catch up on this one. 2006? too late. by that time everybody will be equiped for 1080i. Later, whtn EU decides on a standard, things may change. But Panasonic is no longer in a position to change things anymore. Maybe JVC can.

That's asinine. I can wait a long time before I get any form of HD, because I have no clients that are even interested in HD. Being the first to market doen't make you the winner, and that's even true if you have a superior product (as Sony did with consumer Beta, but they still got their butts kicked by JVC and VHS, and I say that as one who owned and loved beta). All Sony has done is fired the second shot (JVC fired the first), the first battle of the war begins at NAB, and if Panasonic gets it right, it will be a short war. Panasonic is in a great position to change things, and I believe they WILL change things.
As to my predictions: What Barry said.

[Flintstone]

Was there a gauntlet thrown down here? *I thought I saw... oh, here it is.
LOL!!!

Oh man, my stomach hurts so much from laughing from that one-liner!

[hr]
My name Frederic Segard, crappy videographers ;-), and by Feb 2006 I believe the following will happen:

- I believe that hell will freeze over before either standard emerges as a whiner... I mean winner.

- I believe that HD is but a tool to tell a story, but... 1080i will be the workhorse of broadcast news, "reality" shows, sports, etc… but 720p will be the dominant filmmaking, story-telling medium.

- I believe that since most flat panel HD sets are optimized for 720p viewing, and will continue to be by Feb 2006; that you're better off shooting 720p for better results. *For HD CRT sets, that's another matter... but I'd rather convert progresive to interlaced then the other way around any day!

- I believe that if the TV manufacturing industry has not drastically dropped the prices of those HD sets, it won't be until 2010 before HD really picks up at the consumer level.

- I believe that 720p will be the dominant computer playback format over 1080i or 1080p because of its manageable size, and because 1080 requires a heck of a lot more CPU power that the typical computer owning consumers still won't have by Feb 2006.

- I believe that H.264 will have gained a lot of ground over WMV.

- believe that every one has a point, and all of you are right AND wrong... and that includes me. *;)

[Flintstone]

And another thing,

- I believe that 720p will win out over 1080i in 1/3" CCD equipped cams for shoots requiring good low-light performance. *Period!

(You can't argue with physics... well, at least in theory! ::))

[Neil Rowe]

my name is Neil R.,

heres my junk:

1. *I beleive many people i encounter on the internet have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to the equipment they are using or that is available.. yet *they are very anxious people so they assume any knowledge they find blowing in the wind on the net without having any actuall foundational understanding or fundamental knowledge to test the said information against. *and then they proceed to spew this misinformation out of their mouths like diarrhea. I beleive it is unfortunate that many people do not know what is good for them, but that i find it more annoying than saddening.

2. I believe i am a jaded individual

3. I believe that true progressive HD in some flavor has and will always be the professionals choice for motion picture production. I believe i couldnt care less about whats used for TV because im not aiming at becoming a television camera operator, but that serious drama on Tv will also always choose true progressive HD in some flavor.

4. I beleive that the new panasonic cam is going to blow the pants off ANY CURRENT COMPETING PROSUMER HDV camera simply because of the technical issues with HDV whether 24p and solid state memory or not.

5. I believe HDV will do some good and even great things, but that it is and will for a long time be a " wanna be " *HD format that tries to ride the coatails of the tried and tested professional flavors of HD cameras, and will for a long time be left with the burden of proof *that it can get the job done with its unquestionably inferior abilities. and pros would rather not deal with it and just go with a camera like the new panny that will be available whenever possible. I think that as compression and codecs get better we will likely see small bandwidth HD cameras based off other better compression. *but at the same time storage and data transfer speeds are rising while prices are dropping so we may just see more bandwidth added instead of better bandwidth reduction. *obviously, quality wise the latter is the better. *always better to widen the doorway so you fit through untouched then to break yourself to peices so you fit through the small doorway.


6. I believe very few of us will make it as filmmakers. regardless of our equipment.

7. I believe that i could care less if anything i believe now is later changed or abandoned because life and the world is dynamic. if we lived in an unchanging world *then trying to hold someone to thier beliefs *over *time would make sense. but since anything and everything is possible to change in the blink of an eye i dont really see the point of this thread aside from hearing the *current* *and immediate logic of some of the board members on the subjects noted.

8. I currently have just now decided to believe that my time is better spent *doing something else besides posting here..

[Flintstone]

8. I currently have just now decided to believe that my time is better spent *doing something else besides posting here..

LOL

[Policar]

All I know about Feb 1 2006 is that it's the day I turn 21. Yay for binge drinking!

[Dabong]

I too am February born. So It will be interesting to find out what's in store in 2006...

[BLUESPIDER]

Hi my name is BlueSpider:
Feb 1 2006, my punk ass will be broke! HD, SD, HiC, I'm more worried about writing an orginal screen play.

[princigalli]

This whole "I believe" joke is starting to get on my nerves. It wasn't that funny to start with, it was even less funny when everyone started copying it.

[reservoir]

I *believe* I have no idea what the significance of Februrary 2006 is? Someone elighten me!!

~reservoir~

[Policar]

Read my above post and you'll see!

It's a very important day for me.

[J.R. Hudson]

Yay!!!!! :)

[Zig_Zigman]

I believe Shannon Rawls has too much internet time on his hands...hey bro, I thought you were out shooting?

I also believe the forum is kaput until NAB.

[xray]

Yay!!!!! :)
me too!

[J_Barnes]

I'm J. Barnes (insert self-ascribed job title here), and here's what I believe:
------------------------------------------------------

I believe on January 1st, 2006...

1. I will still dislike how faceless people to try and swing their balls around online in an effort to impress other faceless people through some implied sense of exclusive personal or technical knowledge. This dislike will also extend to the random jerks from the aforementioned category that put forth undue effort in an attempt to discredit opinions instead of facts.

2. I will still find myself personally revolted when people use the acronym "LOL" several times in a paragraph where they are not expressing implied or explicit humor.

3. I will still not know for certain what the future holds, and thus I will probably not have invested in any emerging technology before the marketplace has tested and proven it viable. Because of this uncertainty, I will be renting the dominant camera of the moment, utilizing it only for the time I need it and thus greatly reducing the impact upon the finances of my family.

4. I will probably begin dropping hints with my new bride as to my eventual desire to purchase a High Definition television. I will not begin dropping hints that I would like to purchase a high definition camcorder.

5. I will likely find myself advising governmental agencies as to the current and eventual impact of High Definition video production, post production and VTC solutions...however, it is very likely that I will advise against a significant investment.

6. I will probably begin reading reports of improvements in layered LCD displays capable of wide-angle 3D presentation. The reports will probably soon begin another round of faceless internet punditry, aimed at declaring HD dead as a consumer standard in favor of 3D content delivered through a variety of competing codecs.

7. I will probably have more technical knowledge of upcoming video standards and technologies, yet I will still think of filmmaking in terms of stories rather then technologies.

8. Due to the intervention of my mother and new bride, I will still not have a motorcycle.

END PREDICTIONS
------------------------------

[pdb]

What I know today: (living in Europe mind you)

1) CRT TVs in stores are 99.9% widescreen (leaving a lil' bit of room for margin of error...). Most, if not all of these are SD.

2) Walk into any relevant department store/Tv store today and flat pannel displays are or have already taken over majority of shelf/floor space. ALL of these are progressive displays (PLasma, LCD even projectors are). 99% (might be a slight exageration but thereabouts) of these are NOT High definition displays (even though they do say they are "HDTV Ready") and will not display at high def resolutions natively....but they are progressive that's for sure...I personally think that the average joe going in to buy any of these thinks he is buying a high def TV but anyway...

3) Media is converging. Internet/tv/playstation/gaming/"checking out your holiday snaps on your latest digicam" etc will be/is being displayed on the same display in homes (whether at the PC or in front of your sofa)....on progressive displays...


It would seem that by this time next year, the consumer world will be even more "progressive" than it is today..."Think tomorrow, be progressive"...there you go, that's my sales line...

[Flintstone]

8. Due to the intervention of my mother and new bride, I will still not have a motorcycle.
My sincere condolences!

[Gary_McClurg]

I have a really old Yamaha 250 dirt bike that doesn't run. You can have it, J_Barnes.

The only problem you have to go to California to get it.

[ShannonRawls]

I believe Shannon Rawls has too much internet time on his hands...hey bro, I thought you were out shooting?.

I do have too much internet time on my hands. Epecially considering I have 6 internet business that make a good deal of money. Visit www.RawlsEnterprises.com. *smile*

Also...I am a PRODUCER. WHich means even when I am at home...I AM out shooting. Call times for crew don't apply to me unless I want it to. Visit www.BeOut.com for more details. (or www.BeOutPictures.com for a direct link)

Not to mention, My Vaio Laptop stays with me at all times. Like a gunslinger and his Colt. I have too much to do, too many reports to run, to many emails to respond to, to not have it with me. And in between that...I visit wonderful sies like DVXUSER.com. Therefore, I am on the internet everywhere I go (thanks to my Sprint PCS wireless PCMCIA Card)

- ShannonRawls.com

[Frizzle Fry]

Gee Shannon, sounds like the Life O' Riley!

[J.R. Hudson]

I will cringe everytime I see *smile* posted by this dude.

[J.R. Hudson]

*smile*

(Cringing)

[crazyczech]

Just caught the tail end of the Shannon Rawls back and forth. He has a very nice website and alot of stuff completed but I could not find even one trailer, commercial or moving image to demonstrate his production talent that he clearly must have. Shannon please show us your work. Time for a nap.

[ShannonRawls]

John_Hudson is following me in here.

Shannon <-- Heterosexual & Married

Sorry John.

_______________________________________

crazyczech....yea, I hate trailers. Is my production talent on trial here? I thought we were talking about how much time I have on my hands? you're in Santa Monica, CA. let's do soemthing together. Do you have a movie idea that you would like to do or have produced that requires you to see a reel? email me your mailing address, and I'll send you a dvd or two.

As a matter of fact.... your very own BRETT_ERSKINE, a proud member of DVXUSER.COM has DP'd arguable the best lit movie I have ever Produced. he is an innovator in camera imagery and lighting and hands down the best DP I have worked with. I hope to work with him on a bigger budget project. His movie that I produced and unfortunately directed will be finished next thursday. I'll send you a copy. How's that?

John---> *smile*

- ShannonRawls.com

[J.R. Hudson]

John_Hudson is following me in here.

Shannon <-- Heterosexual & Married



What are you talking about? No serious.

[Barry_Green]

I believe that with the introduction of the HVX200, my other predictions just came true, or at least look a lot more likely.

I believe that the battle between 720p and 1080i just became completely irrelevant, with the introduction of 1080/24p and 1080/30p and 1080/60i and 720/24p and 720/30p and 720/60p all in the same camera.

I believe that my prior statement of "the FX1/Z1 will be rendered irrelevant for filmmaking purposes on April 18, 2005" needs to be modified. The FX1/Z1 just became irrelevant for filmmaking purposes on March 31, 2005.

I believe that anyone trying to use some CineFrame field-blending mishmash on 4:2:0 pixel-shifted interlaced footage, all in an attempt to try to simulate 24P, would be much better served to just shoot genuine 1080/24p at 4:2:2 color sampling.

I believe I cannot wait until April 18, 2005 to see this bad boy.

[roentgen]

Don't put the horse/cart ahead of the cart/horse: P2 got a way to go before they're excepted

[J.R. Hudson]

I believe as much as I say I can't and won't be in the market for a new camera am going to be pissed off when i see this new thing. If I'm lucky, maybe David Jimerson will get one and then when I get to Wilmington, NC I'll just use his.

[David Jimerson]

I believe as much as I say I can't and won't be in the market for a new camera am going to be pissed off when i see this new thing. If I'm lucky, maybe David Jimerson will get one and then when I get to Wilmington, NC I'll just use his.

I think the timing will be about right on that, John. Freeloader!

[Isaac_Brody]

This is for you Shannon.

*smile*

[Flintstone]

I believe that with the introduction of the HVX200, my other predictions just came true, or at least look a lot more likely.

I believe that the battle between 720p and 1080i just became completely irrelevant, with the introduction of 1080/24p and 1080/30p and 1080/60i and 720/24p and 720/30p and 720/60p all in the same camera.

I believe that my prior statement of "the FX1/Z1 will be rendered irrelevant for filmmaking purposes on April 18, 2005" needs to be modified. The FX1/Z1 just became irrelevant for filmmaking purposes on March 31, 2005.

I believe that anyone trying to use some CineFrame field-blending mishmash on 4:2:0 pixel-shifted interlaced footage, all in an attempt to try to simulate 24P, would be much better served to just shoot genuine 1080/24p at 4:2:2 color sampling.

I believe I cannot wait until April 18, 2005 to see this bad boy.

Right on, Barry!

What's that noise? Oh! I guess its the noise of the Z1 sales plummeting, or should I say crash landing on a very hard surface.

[SergejIvanovits]

I believe that the battle between 720p and 1080i never was relevant.
I believe only 18% of all of you can buy the new HVX200 in 2005.
I believe it wasn't too bad to buy the FX1 and Z1 later because they made the money to buy 2 HVX if the prize is not more than 12 000,- each.
I believe I gonna trade in my DVX100AE, Sony PD150P, Sony FX1 and going to get one of the upcomming JVC or HVX camcorder.
I also believe the Z1 going to make more money before I trade it in.
I believe if you wait 10 years more than you can shoot a superHD wide movie with your cellphone.
I believe the HVX200 going to be a new high hardcore camcorder if ....
I believe most that it doesn't metter what I believe if I can make money with the electronic I can get.

[David Jimerson]

18%?

[mr._guiyotinne]

Flintstone, that noise is the hiss from the Z1 tape drive recorder next to the HVX and the HD100 in a sure ( i wish and hope) coming article from Barry and Jarred. I´m wishing too for you guys to get access to all of them mañana to hear the pros and cons in a fierce charts battle!

[Spiff]

The FX1/Z1 just became irrelevant for filmmaking purposes on March 31, 2005.

I believe the FX1 in my hand is a million times better at making films on March 31, 2005, than a camera I can't buy because it's not currently available. Salivating is one thing - but keep in mind that you can't buy an HVX now, and that it will likely be twice the price of an FX1 in 3 or 4 months when it comes out. Probably worth every penny more - but not everyone has those extra pennies. Furthermore, it would be possible to buy 2 FX1s and shoot twice the coverage or get 1080i HDV in 3D for the price of an HVX.

That said, I'm thrilled that the HVX is supporting in some way shape or form (either physically or through software) the 1080P format. I was very concerned that the HVX would arrive with only 720P support as "good enough" and the adoption of the camera by the enthusiasts of the board would result in the 1080P format not being pushed.

Hooray! More choices for everyone!

[Isaac_Brody]

Hooray! More choices for everyone!

Word.

[J.R. Hudson]

The FX1/Z1 just became irrelevant for filmmaking purposes on March 31, 2005.


I didn't realize it was ever an option for filmmaking.

[Hyperbolic]

Hooray! More choices for everyone!
Double word. I mean, the HVX sounds AWESOME. But I think 1080 24p cinches that it's gonna be double the cost of the FX1 (meaning around $7k) if not double the cost of the Z1, so it does seem like we're still talking about slightly different tiers of camera. Still sounds like a great deal, though! I mean, how could you want a varicam for film out when you can store 1080 24p for $7k-$10K? I know the glass is different, etc., but STILL.

[Hyperbolic]

I didn't realize it was ever an option for filmmaking.
Hah! Very funny. You saw and commented nicely on my FX1 short film in other posts, so you know we're out there.

[Neil Rowe]

..wickity wackity pit spat a rat a tat goo goo machoooo!!!!

and a jibbidy jab a rab rab blab a fab cad da rad tad o bad had mad sad!!!!

rockity sockity bling blang the doo dong.. bakachu bakachu bakachu bang!

thats my song y'all

loser ... out!

[J.R. Hudson]

Hah! Very funny. You saw and commented nicely on my FX1 short film in other posts, so you know we're out there.

LOL

NOt an option for me of course. :beer:

[ShannonRawls]

Boy, I have never seen so many cult followers in my life!

Ok, first.....A bird in the HAND beats TEN IN THE BUSH! Therefore Barry, On March 31st 2005, I was out shooting a short film with my Z1U (bird in my hand) .... So how many things did you shoot with the HVX200 on March 31st, 2005??? (your birds in the bush)

uhhh, that's CHECKMATE!

And when it finally DOES come out god knows when.....how much are those P2 cards again??? I just bought a 5-pack of MiniDV tapes for $5 bucks each.....

uhhh, that's DOMINO!

At that P2 price....at that >$10k Camera price....... how many (coming soon) HVX200's do you think are gonna out-sell, out-use, become more popular then ----> the (now available) FX1/Z1U again?

uhhh, that's UNO!

I believe everything I believed before is still beliveavble....read each one carefully!

uhhh, that's BLACKJACK!

*smile*<--- Isaac, back atcha!

- ShannonRawls.com

P.S.
I still mighht buy one though! hahahaha

[J.R. Hudson]

www.dvxuser.com

Be Glad we provide you with a thread.

[Nick Adams]

Another dumb thread, This boards starting to get filled with every stray visitor that can insert a tape and press a red button .... Nothing like some one overcompensating by bragging about how much he own's, and in the end sounded like someone no one would want to be around let alone work with.....

If people want the new HDX they'll get it, if it's about coming up with $$ they'll save there $$,

{quote}
"P.S. I still might buy one though! hahahaha"

your my hero.... :thumbdown

[scharky]

Hey Shannon, why don't you make up your mind? You keep telling everyone that "when the HVX comes out, I'll get that one too". We all know your loaded and rolling in dough. By the way, I was out shooting a film on March 31st too. So whats your point?

[ShannonRawls]

Scharky.... make up my mind about what?

See....that's the thing. Some people need to learn to relax and realize...THIS IS THE INTERNET, NOT LIFE!! Why take this stuff so super serious??? As if a freakin' video camera is a BADGE OF HONOR or something. Like you walk around with it all day or sleep with it or show it off at family events to your uncles and nephews while sticking your chest out! LOLOL Do that with a new $100k PORSCHE....not a handycam!
Since when does buying a Panasonic or Sony camera automatically enlist you in the SONY ARMY or PANASONIC MARINES! As if you're taking "SIDES" or some crap. I get what works best for what I do. Don't you?? That's how I make up my mind. Or did you buy a panasonic...and pledged to their sales dept. that you will fight for them till the end days?? *smile*

Stray visitors? You mean like yourself?? You only been a member for 3 weeks. LOLOLOL And, While you call what I'm doing bragging, i call it reporting to others who may want it. I have learned so much from awesome sites like DVXUSER (even found one of the best DP's in the world here, Brett Erskine), and to continue the tradition....I talk about equipment I know of... if you call it bragging, then, um.....ok??

And rolling in dough?? Who ever said that?? I guess that's what YOU came up with simply because I take these little vieo cameras in stride, while you guys salivate over the announcement of a new one. FYI, I was talking to my man Barry Green. Me and barry frequently talk and take jabs at eachoter on these forums.....all in fun. He said something about March 31st, I said something back...he gets it, I get it...but then here you come...... LOL

Anyhow, I digress. Are you going to NAB? *smile*

- Shannon W. Rawls

[J.R. Hudson]

...or sleep with it

Well, I had a bit too much to drink and one thing led to another. :embarasse

[ShannonRawls]

Well, I had a bit too much to drink and one thing led to another. :embarasse

LMAO!
I know someone who got married that very same way! *smile*

[Nick Adams]

I don't have any problem with you or how you shoot, what camera you use or anything that you do, I just find it funny lololololololololololol that you bug people for allegedly changing there views and then state things that don't match up to what you previously stated yourself, if you really want me to quote your post's let me know but I don't see a point. I agree you look like your a busy guy and although having only a few posts probably aren't a "stray visitor" and frequently read and not reply in other threads, aswell you probably visit many forums....

I myself am slightly the same way and although having come here for about 2 years, only joined a year ago, and since the site overhaul I set up a new account, so I could see how you may think I've only been on the board for 3weeks......

:beer:

[J.R. Hudson]

Nick has been here forever. Jeez.

The fact is; without 24p whats the point? Yeah, I said it. HIDEF or SD is alright by me but without 24p you get 60i and with 601 you get "V-V-V-V-I D E O" and that sucks.

Hey, it;s just an opinion; if you don't need or believe in 24p then its all good; it's your decision. BUt don't rag on people or acuse them of being Militant Cult Leaders. Who cares? Shoot something already; cause without content you aint got that thing.

[Hyperbolic]

The fact is; without 24p whats the point?
We all agree on that. But some of us find our 24p SD output to be better coming from the Sony HDV cams than the DVX; we just arrive at our 24p in post. As for native HD 24p, well, it doesn't appear we'll be getting that for any less than 2x to 3x the cost of an FX1 (which is currently about $3200), so that's just a question of which income bracket folks are in. I'm hoping my work with the FX1 gets me the HVX $$ by Sept.-Oct., but if not, well, I have a feeling most clients/viewers won't notice much difference until HD-DVDs become a reality. :)

[J.R. Hudson]

We all agree on that. But some of us find our 24p SD output to be better coming from the Sony HDV cams than the DVX;

24p is a gift from the DV Gods.

Which Sony camera are you talking about?

[scharky]

Hey Shannon,
Compared to me, your rolling in it, as I'm sure most people are on this site, as I am just finishing up my BFA and am about 20G's in debt. So yes, I have to pick and choose my cameras very seriously. It took me 9 months to save up for my DVX, because my wife wouldn't let me use our financial aid money for it:cheesy: .
The point that I was trying to make was that in your post above you are trying to point out that the HDX will never match the FX1 or Z1. I personally could care less which cameras people use, as I have stated before, I think the Z1 and Fx1 are great cameras, and I believe in using the right camera for the right job. But if I'm going to be buying a camera, I want it to do things the way I want to do them. I am sick of people telling me, and I'm sure you feel the same way, about how I should buy and FX1 or Z1 or stick with this camera, or wait for that camera. I say, if you are telling people to wait for this or that, or to get this or that camera, and your not doing anything yourself, or have anything to show, you have no right to give advice.
I have stated before and I say it again, it really doesn't matter what camera you shoot with, as long as the camera works for you. I have seen amazing things from the GL2, the Xl1, the DVX, the FX1 and the Z1. Those that say, I don't think it looks good because it was shot on so and so camera are really looking through biased goggles that are distorting their vision. We all wear them, it is unavoidable after making a $3000 purchase. But to that I say, I am still going to be saving my pennies, and probably taking a big chunk out of my credit card for the Hvx, if it stands up to it's specs. WHy, because it funcitons the way I want it to. I don't want to shoot events. I want 24p true progressive scan, I want 60P video. I want 1080p. Will it make me a better film maker? Hell no. but it will allow me to grow with the camera, and allow me the ability to work the way that I want to.
Shannon, I respect what you do, and would really love to see some of your work. Who knows, as soon as I'm out of school, we may meet in the film industry some day.

[J.R. Hudson]

I agree; I think what gets me. and it is something that is rampant, is that the non-dvx'ers tend to (and im speaking generally and not lumping people in one group) scream fanboy or cult or militant or whatever because we choose the dvx during this period. Its as if they want to say "But my camera is cool too..." well, thats great. I hope it is what you want.

Theres nothing on the market I want other than a DVX (under 5000K of course) so to me, there is no substitute. Dont rag at me cause Im at the dvxuser site and proudly saying "the dvx kicks ass and i love this camera". Go find another site if you cant handle it. I cant fathom another camera at this time and your not going to talk me into believing in
the other cameras (expecially the Sony) and Ill be damned if Im going to deinterlace to get to 24p.

One thing we can all agree on is, shoot shoot shoot and give us content. I too have seen killer things with other cameras (28 Days Later, man I was inspired) but over the course of the last couple years I have learned so much and now look at 28 Days Later and think "It really does look like crap though".

I dont know; seems we have this same conversation over and over; its a dvxuser site and so sue me for pimping the camera I love and sue me for looking at the other options and thinking "Why would you want to do indie filmmaking with that?"

[Isaac_Brody]

Shannon, you just love pushing people's buttons don't you?

[Hyperbolic]

I dont know; seems we have this same conversation over and over; its a dvxuser site and so sue me for pimping the camera I love and sue me for looking at the other options and thinking "Why would you want to do indie filmmaking with that?"
No doubt. It's a DVX site and you have every right to trumpet it -- most of us with other cameras also like the DVX, which is why we're here. But let's be honest -- it's because of the success of the DVX that this board has become one of the starting points for amateur filmmakers, and they come here to learn. Almost every other forum on the site is (rightfully) devoted to the glory of the DVX. But if you don't want us to talk about the FX1/Z1 or the XL2, why create these forums on the board? Is it just so you can keep saying that the DVX rules? Because you don't need a Sony section to do that.

I think the reason these parts of dvxuser.com exists is preceisely because it's such a hub for the beginning filmmaker. I think they're here so we can talk about the cams and compare them to one another, but I don't think they're here for us to say "there's no other cam even worth talking about except the DVX." We're talking about them because you put up some boards and thus invited us to talk about them!

[Spiff]

I'll just say that as a newer member of this forum, I came here to find out information about film-making and cameras. While people "pimping" the DVX are to be expected, I do find that it gets distastefully out of hand at times. Of course - it does that in both directions. But one person "pimping" the DVX will only encourage someone else to "pimp" the XL2, FX1, Z1U or whatever camera they own... which rarely leads to anything constructive.

[Nick Adams]

I Think it has to be said, that this particular thread was alway's going to end up this way anyway's ( a debate on camera's) since it was started as a post "what do you think the Camera market's going in the next year?" it's only normal that it would end up; "mine is better!" thread, so relax and if you don't want to read click back and just look at the posts on technical aspect's


you just have to understand that some people think filmmaking should be done a certain way, and most believe the point of using digital isn't because it's digital it's about using the camera that will give the best replication of a "film look" not a video look.... if that were the case than we'd all hit up the local thrift store and refurbish old S-VHS camera's... The DVX is what it' is, and right now I think it's the best camera to give the Film Look, certainly for it's price vs all the others in the catagory, If sony was releasing the upcoming HVX than I'd probably being praising sony, however I've seen the FX1 and don't like it myself.... it would never be a choice for me, ( p.s. I used sony dv cam's all through filmschool and they worked great, but the dvx wasn't out back then) and I'm sure the school I was at has now moved on to DVX's for there instiute as many of the schools have...

Like I said, everyone has there own taste, I'm sure actual 35mm user's are laughing at the idea of people like us trying to replicate the look when it's already there (just to damn expensive)

Why else be a filmmaker if not to make a short or feature that looks like film.... I'm making music video's right now and the first thing alway's asked by bands/artists who know nothing about the process is how much is this going to look like film?

[ShannonRawls]

because my wife wouldn't let me use our financial aid money for it:cheesy: .


Ahhhhh, the wives! We should start a club and get jackets made! hahahaha

"THE MEN WHOSE WIVES WOULDN'T LET THEM GET STUFF THEY WANTED & NEEDED CLUB OF AMERICA"
I'd like to be the founding Secretary. Who will be the president? Vice president? Sergeant At Arms???

*smile*

- Shannon W. Rawls

I like this site because I am a DVX100a user/owner and this is where i learned all the thngs I didn't know about it. and guess what.......My PC is better then your MAC!!! *smile*

[Anhar Miah]

Woah , guys, easy... relax dont stress its causes grey hairs!

On a slightly different note, its seems the DRAKE boys have completed their final prototype go over to DVinfo have a look at the pictures... word has it that their are working on full 35mm cmos DTD (4:4:4 of course) camera, that my friend will indeed give the CineAlta's a damn good run for their money (i mean we are talking D20 and Dalsa Origin level).

I'm very interested by all this "pro-sumer/ indie" HD cameras that are now kicking off (i.e. HDX200, JVC HD100 and maybe even Canon who knows?) but sonner or later i think the indie people WILL want more (cuz its STILL 1/3") i mean even 2/3" in not really enough for the Hollywood big boys.

"I dream of full 35mm cmos" -end qoute

[Philipp]

Well to get back to the initial atempt:

I believe that we all waited long enough to see things at NAB that will make us all wait another 6 months to buy those shiny things.

I believe that we will (by Feb 1st 2006) all try to do HD because it is a bit like sex. It's new and strange at the beginning and at first sight it is the greatest thing in the world. After you got used to it a bit you start testing around and then we all try to develope HHDV.

I believe the DVX will always be one of the most legendary cams. And I believe that I am very happy with my Z1E right now.

[letsburnbridges]

Ahhhhh, the wives! We should start a club and get jackets made! hahahaha

"THE MEN WHOSE WIVES WOULDN'T LET THEM GET STUFF THEY WANTED & NEEDED CLUB OF AMERICA"
I'd like to be the founding Secretary. Who will be the president? Vice president? Sergeant At Arms???

*smile*

- Shannon W. Rawls

I like this site because I am a DVX100a user/owner and this is where i learned all the thngs I didn't know about it. and guess what.......My PC is better then your MAC!!! *smile*

I believe that your pc being better than a mac is an impossibility.
I believe that my FX1 is already about to be outdated, but I also believe i dont care.
I believe HDV is going to die at the hands of panasonic, but thats cool with me.
I believe content matters so much more than all the tech talk

[Loki]

sounds to me like Shannon is just trying to pimp the HDV format to everyone..

but meh...

I like making stuff... whether its out of clay.. or with a camera...

I am gonna go shoot some shit now..

(like honestly... gonna grab a gun and fire it at a bag of poop... then film it.. I'll let you know the results..)

[SoerenM]

Uh noooo... now Shannon is even smearing all his *smile*s and LOLOLOLs all over my beloved dvxuser.com too! *sigh*

@John Hudson... I'm cringing too! :-/

Hopefully he limits his posts to the Sony HDV section... else I think I have to come up with some kind of my personal Shannon-Rawls-Post-Filter... ;-)

[ShannonRawls]

Soren, *SMILE*, what are you talkin' about *SMILE*

- Shannon *smilin'n* Rawls

[SoerenM]

*lol*
At least you're quite passionate about it... ;-)
Hm somehow I've just got an image on my mind... remember the cheshire cat from Alice in Wonderland?!

[J.R. Hudson]

LOL

Shannon! That's it. You are the Cheshire Cat!


* SMILE *

http://going24-7.com/pins/images_2a/cheshire_cat_tree.jpg

[Neil Rowe]

..good heavens that cat is freaky! ... im mean .. who does that with their legs. seriously .. who does that?

[MDKfilms]

I believe that the technology exists right now to make an affordable "PRO" cam for under $10,000. But it won't be built. Why? because if it was who would spend a $100,000. on a Sony 950. Think about it. Why do things cost what they cost? Because thats what they can be sold for. Does anyone here really think that any of the big cam manufaturers can't put out a 3 chip cam with removable lenses pro audio yada yada yada for under, lets say $5,000.? Things being made nowadays in the east where they pay their workers $10 dollars a day, it can't be because of labour cost. R&D? The R&D has been done, its already in place, if it wasn't they couldn't make the bigger cams. It also has to do with volume of sales. But that is for another thread.

[David Jimerson]

I believe that the technology exists right now to make an affordable "PRO" cam for under $10,000. But it won't be built. Why? because if it was who would spend a $100,000. on a Sony 950. Think about it. Why do things cost what they cost? Because thats what they can be sold for. Does anyone here really think that any of the big cam manufaturers can't put out a 3 chip cam with removable lenses pro audio yada yada yada for under, lets say $5,000.? Things being made nowadays in the east where they pay their workers $10 dollars a day, it can't be because of labour cost. R&D? The R&D has been done, its already in place, if it wasn't they couldn't make the bigger cams. It also has to do with volume of sales. But that is for another thread.

This comes up all the time.

Varying grades of cameras don't necessarily bite into other sales.

Look at the DVX/SDX. Or the DVX and a whole host of pro SD cams.

There are also very real economic realities in fine lens grinds, engineering, etc.. Not to mention patents and other possible royalties or fees.

(I'm reminded of the lament that DVDs cost pennies to make, so why do we have to pay $15-20 for one at Best Buy?)

(I'm also reminded of the 100 mpg carburetor that the oil/auto companies are sitting on, not wanting it to be released for fear of what it will do to sales.)

[MDKfilms]

I'm not going to drag this thread out, i'm just going to make one last statement. Without sounding to much like an XFILES episode, I believe there are inventions or patents that are being "sat on" at this minute. One old example of an invention that was to be kept secret is velcro, invented for nasa, or discovered by them, it was suppose to be kept secret from the russians, but it got out. The other one that comes to mind is the "Tucker" automobile. All kinds of inovations that were ahead of their time, but it was crushed by the big 3. Lets face it, people don't give things away for free if they can avoid it. I make and sell widgets, I have my economy model and I have my deluxe model, do you think i'm going to tell you that they cost about the same to make. And yes, why do DVDs cost so much? They have no moving parts like a VHS cassette, digital transfer means you don't have to produce as many masters as you would have to for tapes, DVD players are getting about as cheap as DVDs, so tell me why? I would really like to know.

[SoerenM]

And here is our beloved Cheshire Cat again doin' its favourite move:
http://www.hdvinfo.net/images/srawls.jpg
;-)

[reservoir]

I like this site because I am a DVX100a user/owner and this is where i learned all the thngs I didn't know about it. and guess what.......My PC is better then your MAC!!! *smile*

I believe someone has MAC envy!! :grin:



I believe that your pc being better than a mac is an impossibility.
I believe that my FX1 is already about to be outdated, but I also believe i dont care.
I believe HDV is going to die at the hands of panasonic, but thats cool with me.
I believe content matters so much more than all the tech talk

I believe this man knows what he's talking about!! :thumbsup:

I believe this is the only Chesire Cat that matters:

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B00000JKI6.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

~reservoir~

[David Jimerson]

You think reservoir likes Macs . . . maybe a little?

[reservoir]

You think reservoir likes Macs . . . maybe a little?

I believe I don't even own a Mac....YET!! I'll wait for the Dual Cores at NAB!!

~reservoir~

[Neil Rowe]

..two neighbors used to mow their lawns on the same day and each time they would tell the other neighor all the problems with their yard on the other side of the fence, and talk about how nice their own yard was on their own side of the fence. one would say theirs was the best , and the other would say the same.. one day some high winds blew the fence down and away. .. the neighbors came out to mow the lawn the next day, and realised that they couldnt tell where one yard ended and the other began. ..and that the only thing that really seperated the two lawns was the fence that they had put up.

moral of the story.. dont eat at denny's

[reservoir]

....or Waffle House!!

~reservoir~

[David Jimerson]

I believe I don't even own a Mac....~reservoir~

Doesn't keep you from being a groupie, dude. I've never seen such a super-dense ball of Mac Rulez! posts, even among the hardcore owners! :thumbsup: Just commenting on your enthusiasm.

[reservoir]

Can't help it Jubal. Macs are among the best you can buy in the computer world. Well, unless you like your spam and viruses and spyware of course!! ~reservoir~

[David Jimerson]

:thumbsup:

[reservoir]

Reservoir <-------MAC *SUPER-FANBOY*!!

:grin:

~reservoir~

[redindian]

Feb 1st here...

so where is shannon to eat a few of his words :)

[Luis Caffesse]

Nice bump redindian
:thumbsup:

This is an interesting read now.... it would be nice to pick it up, and maybe start a new thread with predictions for the coming year.

[J.R. Hudson]

After that last debacle, this oughta be fun. http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3554/sarcastic5wj.jpg

[myfriendimage]

I <3 60i

[Arcwave]

I <3 1080i :thumbsup:

[Alex Leith]

INTERLACED WILL DIE...

Flat panel displays are progressive scan by nature... and with increasing convergence with computer technology, interlaced is pointless and annoying, messing up the footage that I'm trying to post on the web!

1080p150... then finally the 50Hz and 60Hz worlds can unite!