Lets get to the bottom of this XL2 or DVX100a

[BigWilly1231]

Forsome one looking for a camera for inde filmaking what is the camera to get....The XL2 or the DVX100a, please help out. I know that the XL2 has native 16x9 but is that really any better then getting a Anamorphic Lens, plus the cost...So please help me out what direction should I go, give me pros and cons.....and help me get to the bottom of this camera situation

[J.R. Hudson]

BigWilly

There are 8 Million Posts on this exact subject. Start reading my friend. (p.s. get the DVX)

[John C Lyons]

tough question...i would say that without seeing any actual FOOTAGE from the XL2 that this is probably impossible to answer.

and then i will say buy a DVX100A.

[Barry_Green]

The XL2 is not available now, and won't be available for about a month, and even then we don't know when it will be available in quantity or at what price. My guess is if you ordered one today you'd probably get it in late Aug/early September, and you will have to pay pretty much full retail (maybe $4800).

Until it's out and available, it's very difficult to make any sort of informed comment about it. All we know is what we read in the press releases and from the brief viewings by DV Expo attendees.

If you think the XL2 will be a viable candidate for your money, and the $1400 higher price tag doesn't dissuade you, and you can afford to wait, then you should wait for some high-quality reviews. If you can't wait, the DVX is available now. If you can't afford an XL2, the DVX is a lot cheaper. But if you're serious about considering the XL2, you're going to have to wait at least a month so some cameras can come out and get in people's hands for actual testing.

[theos]

Barry, "the DVX is alot cheaper" . . . money isnt growing on trees :P All of a sudden the value of 3200 odd euro is peanuts. I still remeber quotes like - just got my DVX and wont be affording much more for now . . .

The thing is the DVX is by no means a "cheap" piece of equip, let alone having to justify another 2200 euro for a similar deal!

;D

[Barry_Green]

Well, no it's not cheap... but the XL2 costs about 40% more.

[Michael_Bott]

There is no *bottom* to this. Look at your work, look at what you want to do and what you want the camera to do, then at earliest opportunty go and get YOUR hands on both cameras - test them. The one that makes you happy in that context is the one that you should get.

You could listen to all the advice and third party experience in the world (I think it's all on this site isn't it Jarred? ::)) go spend your money and still be disappointed. We can all argue about resolution and stuff 'till we're blue in the face but in the end, if we're honest, it's a personal thing.

[Ranger]

Big Willy,

As someone who does not have the DVX yet, I would say wait and start doing your research. With all the different features and options, it will be confusing at first, but over time your brain will filter out the BS and you'll eventually determine what is right for YOU!

Since you are clearly undecided on this issue, throwing money toward a DVX is irresponsible at this point (unless of course time is critical). As someone mentioned earlier, these cameras are not cheap and it's better to make an informed decision six to eight weeks from now, rather than kicking yourself in the ass for making an impulse buy.

[Guest]

Save up your money for a few years and get The Kinetta. That looks to me to be the biggest innovation in independent filmmaking to date. Can't wait to see it. If you need a camera now, well then by all means get the camera that suits you best, i.e., style of shooting, lens options, etc.

[Mitch_Ives]

Big Willy,

As someone who does not have the DVX yet, I would say wait and start doing your research.

Or he could buy something now and start making money! Jeez, if I had a nickel for everytime someone waited for the next thing I could retire. By the time the XL2 arrives I will have paid for both of my 100A's many times over...

[cba]

Mitch_Ives

how u make that money i need dough.. i have a pany gs200 can u let a beginner like me know? make dough?

[liquidigital]

Unless you intend on going into production NOW, meaning a project in preproduction, do not spend your money on any camera. The exception being, you haven't had a lot of experience shooting and you want to learn to be a working DP. If your goal is to direct, hire a DP that can make you look good, that knows his art. Don't spend your hard earned money on something that will be far surpassed a year or even six months later. Rent for your production. Now if you want to learn HOW to shoot, borrow a friend's camera. Rent for a weekend. How many film shooters own their cameras? Not many, unless they are a rental house as well. When the Kinetta comes out, rent it. Best-Mike

[PaulK]

How many film shooters own their cameras? Not many, unless they are a rental house as well.
Yes, that argument is made all the time, popularized by Scott Billups' advice in his book Digital Moviemaking. But there's a huge price difference between pro film cameras and prosumer camcorders.

BTW, I think a lot of folks missed Scott's point. He was talking about renting versus owning top of the line DV equipment. Later in his book he advises to purchase a camcorder to practice the craft of filmmaking.

Without owning you won't shoot nearly as much, therefore you won't become as good as quickly.

[liquidigital]

Big Willy's post stated that he was looking for a camera for "indie filmmaking." If he intends on making a film, a better investment would be to rent a better camera that will also give the project a higher production value, than pimp up a DVX100A or an XL2. Save $5,000 if you want to learn to shoot and buy a used camera on ebay.

[Ranger]

Or he could buy something now and start making money! Jeez, if I had a nickel for everytime someone waited for the next thing I could retire. By the time the XL2 arrives I will have paid for both of my 100A's many times over...
Mitch,

I stand 100% behind my original statement. In principle, you are correct, but that doesn’t mean one has to be reckless or irresponsible in the decision making process either. No one is advocating that BigWilly sit on the fence for a year before he finally makes a decision. Only that he simply waits until the Canon arrives before taking the final plunge. BigWilly doesn't have a clue what he wants. He's been waffling back and forth all this week into whether he should get the DVX or the XL2. Let’s not push him into something that he may regret eight weeks down the road from now.

[PaulK]

Big Willy's post stated that he was looking for a camera for "indie filmmaking."

Yes, but his subject is "Lets get to the bottom of this XL2 or DVX100a". It sounds like he's already made a choice on format and wants to know which is better.

If he intends on making a film, a better investment would be to rent a better camera that will also give the project a higher production value, than pimp up a DVX100A or an XL2. Save $5,000 if you want to learn to shoot and buy a used camera on ebay.
Well, you're entitled to your opinion. You do know that November, shot on a DVX100, won the best cinematography award at the last Sundance festival, right? :)

I think the argument to rent a film camera (or, I guess now you're saying to buy on Ebay) instead of getting a camera like the DVX is a specious one, especially in this day and age when there are so many great indie films being shot on miniDV. And the format is so cheap compared to film, a miniDV camera owner is more likely to experiment and overshoot more -- two things that will increase the likelihood of good results.

Either way, a good story is still the number one criterion and takes precedence over all other factors.

[PaulK]

Paul, you're entitled to your opinion as well. You have some vaild points. But, I bet the majority of films that have won best cinematography have been filmed on film
;).


???
There's no question, and I would never try to imply the contrary.

$ 5,000.00 is a lot of cash. For that matter, so is $3400.00.

Again, I would never try to imply the contrary.

Your argument is that miniDV has produced a lot of great films. This may or may not be true,


Well, specifically, I said "there are so many great indie films being shot on miniDV," and that is without a doubt true. I've seen a lot at film festivals, on the Sundance channel, even at the monthly gathering of film geeks here in Santa Cruz.

Of course your definition of "great" might be different. But let's not go there, K? ;)

but you can learn on any camera. Even a used DVX100.
Yes, well, at the risk of being redundant, I would never try to imply the contrary. ;D

Look, you've either misread what I wrote, or I wasn't as clear as I thought I was. Either way, my original point was it is better to own than to rent and I gave my reasons. But no worries. I'm not angry or anything. But a lot of mistaken assumptions were made in your post, so I felt obligated to respond. 8)

[liquidigital]

I'm glad you agree with me. :) ;) :D ;D

[PaulK]

;D