Will it be really "better"

[Antoine_Fabi]

The new XL2 is really beautifull, no doubts.
It will has some advantages over the DVX100 and DVX100A:

1) no need for a 16:9 adapter
2)no need to care about f/stop/zoom/focus for 16/9 mode
2) full telephoto

but that's all !

but let's face it, it actually have some major limitations:

1)no reasonable wide enough field of view with the long lense, so you have to buy the 3X.
2)on a normal shooting session, you'll have to constantly switch from the long lens to the 3X lense, and that is not funny at all.
3)it has 8 bits DSP, which, in theory at least, should have inferior color reproduction compared to both DVX100 (10 bits DSP) and DVX100A (12 bits DSP)
4)it has smaller CCD's pixels, and it "should" be inferior for dynamic range and smeering, unless it has a new CCD technology, which i doubt.
5) and it is HEAVY !

But we'll have to wait for a true and independant A/B comparo.

I agree with Barry, it seems to be a good camcorder, but i doubt it is really a bomb.

It seems that Canon COPIED EVERY SINGLE FEATURE from the DVX.

...but HD (HDV or DVCP50HD or anythingHD) is knocking at our door in a few months...

hmmm...curious but...i doubt...

Panasonic could do an easy move with its existing SDX900 technology *in a small and more affordable camcorder (the approx size of a DVX and simplified features) , HDV ?, DVCPro50 ? DVCProHD ?...

Panasonic would sell tons of these...
There is a HUGE market for lightweight high quality camcorders.
No doubt, Panasonic would be able to make an affordable camcorder with 2/3" 16/9 CCD in a lightweight package, bayonnet lense mount, combined with its great DVCPro 50 and DVCPro HD formats.

It's up to Panasonic...

[Neil Rowe]

you forgot to mention that idiotic eyepiece/2" lcd... what a joke. also no real manual zoom or focus unless you buy another lense. it is a nice cam from its specs, but at best i think it will only roughly match the DVX as far as a filmmaking cmera goes.

[theos]

roughly match . . . IAL you are the limit! :D

[Neil Rowe]

??? i was being serious..
i honestly dont think that spec wise, or in its actual function it will outperform the DVX. i think it has some features over the DVX but the DVX also has features over it. so assuming the canon lives up to its specs with any sort of integrity, i think they will probably be a horse a piece.. just roughly matched with eachother. and i wouldnt deem one superior over the other at all , unless theres some very big differentiating factor that hasnt been discovered yet.

[Michael_Bott]

I think Neil is about right. The choice won't be about which is *better* - that was the choice if you were looking at the DVX against an XL1s. Now it's about what kind of tools suit you in your workplace.

[Rich Lee]

i think this new cam will be bitchin. sure it does a funny thing to get 16x9. but the fact that it does 16x9 out of the box is cool. yeah, its a much longer lens then one would like, but slap a .6 century on it and your done. who knows what retailers will sell it for, but once you slap a ana on the dvx the price will start to come close to the xl2. but then you will need to add a wide angle attachment to the xl2 and the price goes up again...hmm...

to me the big issue really is how fancy the camera looks, back when i had my xl1s it felt good having a sexy looking cam, but now that i have a dvx, i can shoot in many more places then i could with the xl1s and not get thrown out by security. the dvx is a wolf in sheeps clothing.

[alpi69]

for people in this forum the question should be: is canon able to bring the same latitude as the dvx in 24/25p mode.

for me the short lens of the DVX is its most missing tool. else the DVX has everything you need and it costs less and it is lighter which allows for easier packed units (lighter tripod, lighter steadycam).

until the XL2 is proven better in imagequality i think it has many minuses (if you did not have an XL1):
- costs considerably more
- no manual lens (until you pay even more)
- no wideangle at all (until you pay more)
- heavy (and adding another lens even increases your backpacks weigth)
- bulky and there are many things that could break off (especially the viewfinder, and believe me, i already broke 3 off of betacams when shooting in the mountains)

[scharky]

I think the biggest turnoff to me about the xl1 is that in 4:3 mode, you are effectively working with 1/4 chips, and since the 16:9 is on a 4:3 chip as well, you will not get any shollower DOF than the dvx. The dvx with the Ani will have an even larger advantege then. Plus, with that smaller chip, the standard lens at it's wide end is now at about 50mm (35mm eq.) Adding a .6 on the end of that long lens is going to get people taking a lot of ground shots, because that sucker is going to be massively front heavy. That and the fact that it only has 8bit DSP is a little disturbing. I think the image quality will be on par with the dvx, but no better to be honest.

[NoMaD]

As soon as XL2 comes out I'm buying a DVX... mb two ;D

I own a GL1 and I was very displeased with everything about it... I will never purchcase a cannon product again. Sony and Panasonic are my true friends, Sony more then panasonic cus sony takes better care of its people.

[boo]

Sony and Panasonic are my true friends, Sony more then panasonic cus sony takes better care of its people.

bwhahaha...you've got to be kidding...

[NoMaD]

In a way yes... but I feel that Sony is way better to the community then Panasonic.

[J.R. Hudson]

Ill second that. There is no PANI support in here.

[Barry_Green]

Er - have you EVER seen a Sony rep, on any forum, ever, anywhere?

I can't think of a single instance...

[Zoomforce]

Well.. Believe it or not Sony supports this site more than Panasonic does .. Vegas contests and such. They don't make the best cameras but man are they great to deal with.

If it wasnt for the kick ass Jan C. from panasonic they probally wouldn't even know who we are.. The fact that Jan does take the time here is great, and I love her for it, but I have a small feeling it may be more personal to her cause she loves the camera and loves us(?) than her being told by the boss to go keep up with those DVuser yahoos.

When I was at Nab.. they didnt care about me, All I got was a funky little keychain. We sell many cameras a day through the site and probally half the support call costs.. but I didn't even get invited to the hotel room brew hah hahs (if they had any). Maybe because I'm a Canadian. Or maybe because I post posts like this.

I was invited to a Sony party at the Paris however, for the release of Vegas 5. They put this party on for some guy that ran the Yahoo Boards California Vegas user group.. I think they had like 500 members or something total.. and maybe 50 where at this party. but yet Sony went balls out, free drinks, Prizes and everything. Hell, I even won the very first Boxed Vegas 5+DVD A that came off the printers. And it wasn't just 1 Sony guy there, there was the vice president, Marketing, coders, probally 10 of em, even guys from the old Sonic Foundry. You shoulda felt the love in the air.

But oh well.. as long as Panny keeps pumping out the best camera out there that's all I need and DVXUser will carry on.

[Barry_Green]

Okay, I see what you're saying. But let me just specify -- are you referring to Sony as in the ex-Sonic Foundry guys? Because I've never seen a tech or rep from Sony Electronics anywhere. But the Sony Software guys, who used to work at Sonic Foundry before the acquisition, yes those guys are absolutely superb. It was seeing and interacting with them at NAB that pushed me over the line into trying Vegas. And their support on their own forum, and on other forums, is unsurpassed.

[Bobflash777]

Hey Jarred, what's the filming industry like in Canada? I'm a full time film student here in Portland Oregon, the industry is great because Oregon is one of the greatest locations in the U.S. , but it's mostly people coming here to shoot... anyway I was thinking of getting duel citizenship and moving to B.C. I hear the industry is booming there, any thoughts? As to the forum topic, so has there or has there not been any comfirmation at all about the filming modes offered on the XL2 such as 24p? My school is a huge fan of the Cannon Quality but was considering getting some DVX's before they heard of the XL2, for myself it was no question, in fact I just put an order in with EVS, got a great deal too considering the camera will be covered for five years!

[Zoomforce]

yes those guys are great.. but those arn't the guys that are supporting the site.. the guys giving us free software for the contsts are long and behold Sony guys from way back when... They dont care that we are a Panasonic worshiping temple of whatever, all they see is that we have a section devoted to Vegas that has alot of good people in it.

[dat5150]

Er - have you EVER seen a Sony rep, on any forum, ever, anywhere?

Yes. Sony(formerly Sonic Foundry) reps are active in the Sony-Vegas forum. They have been very helpful in many instances.

[Zoomforce]

yeah.. specially Dennis.

[Barry_Green]

Yes, the Sonic Foundry Sony guys are everywhere, and they provide superb service. I should have clarified in the original post that I was talking about Sony ELECTRONICS reps.

[Rush]

in fact I just put an order in with EVS, got a great deal too considering the camera will be covered for five years! Thanks for the order Bob!

[Zoomforce]

yeah Bob.. its pretty booming up here, I am sure if you have even a small amount of skills you will find work fast..

[Mitch_Ives]

but let's face it, it actually have some major limitations:

3)it has 8 bits DSP, which, in theory at least, should have inferior color reproduction compared to both DVX100 (10 bits DSP) and DVX100A (12 bits DSP)
4)it has smaller CCD's pixels, and it "should" be inferior for dynamic range and smeering, unless it has a new CCD technology, which i doubt.


Rather significant downsides on both of those... that pretty much does it for me.

[Mitch_Ives]

Er - have you EVER seen a Sony rep, on any forum, ever, anywhere?

I can't think of a single instance...

Me either. Look, my studio looks like the poster boy for Sony, with all the logos, but things change. In the HD world, I'd get a Varicam over the Sony HD camera... no question. Over-crank and under-crank give more possibilities and it costs $40K less.

In the middle ground Sony has no answer to the Panny 900. DVCpro 25 and 50, 4:3 and 16:9, 24p, 30p, 60i.

At the low end, the DVX-100a has no rival (I sold the PD150s to get these). Snap zooms in a small camera... all the pro controls outside the menus.

Panny has a deck that plays all their formats (1200A). At Sony, if you want to go to 50bit, you have to trash all your DVCAM gear and get into another tape format or the disc. If you move to HD, you trash everything again. Is this wise, if you plan to stay in business?

In the span of three short years Panasonic went from 2nd or 3rd to the front. Sony is busy trying to find themselves while they hemorrage billions of yen each quarter.

I still shoot DVCAM in the large cameras and I love Sony monitors, but I refuse to be in denial. Panasonic is in the lead. They view Apple as a co-developer. Sony views Apple as a competitor, so no cooperation.

Things change... it's important not to "check into the denial suite", as that can result in disaster for your businesss. To survive in this business you have to be willing to look at trends... and support those companies that deliver what you need.

okay, somebody help me down off this damn soapbox...

[Zoomforce]

man I love that Pany deck.. I just got a Sony DVcam deck though so i wont be getting one anytime soon.. but would be nice. HD all the way down to DV.

[Bobflash777]

anytime Rush, EVS has a reputaion and I'm glad it lived up to it. Thanks again.

[betsy]

Well.. Believe it or not Sony supports this site more than Panasonic does

What do you mean Panasonic does not support this website or you individually? I am positive that Panasonic pays for this site, just not you right? Are you the owner of this website?

[Barry_Green]

Jarred owns this site and operates it out of his pocket. Panasonic doesn't pay any support for it.

[Anhar_Miah]

Quality Will Speak for its self! ;D

[Zoomforce]

Jarred owns this site and operates it out of his pocket. *Panasonic doesn't pay any support for it.

= total freedom :)

[gcaus]

I called EVS last Friday, and they told me to wait a week if I wanted Magic Bullet, since it is not included in the DVXs they have in stock.

B&H told me, "go ahead and buy", Panasonic has the offer, they'll stand by it.

I'm not sure Magic Bullet will be useful since I plan on using 24p, but heck, I'll wait. Yet another reason to see the if the XL2 is any better. Panasonic isn't doing themselves a favor with the Magic Bullet offer. Giving people like me a reason to wait . I've been a marketing person and creating market confusion (including your channel) isn't a good thing!

So I bought a Magiqcam II instead! I'll buy the camera in a month...

-Jerry

[Jan_Crittenden]

Hi,

The MAgic Bullet software to cover the dealers inventory should be in their hands within a week or so. The reason I included the Magic Bullet software is not for the 24P part of the program, I am including the Magic Bullet for Editors which has the film looks in it. This idea has been very popular with many of the Film folks and exptremely popular as an capability of the SDX900 in camera.

If you were to purchase a DVX100A from an authorized reseller today, you would receive the MB software. Some will be in the box some will come later as some dealers have inventory. Eventually it will become evident that that the non-authorized resellers that are selling gray market product, that does not have a US warranty will be easier to spot and avoid.

Anyhow it is an additional $300 value added to the US customer's DVX.

Hope that clarifies,

jan

[scharky]

Wow, is this a permanent addition to buying a new DVX100a? Sounds like a great deal. I wish I could afford to buy another one, but I'm already on thin ice with my wife as it is :)

[gcaus]

Jan,

Maybe I misunderstood another post. I thought the "editor" version only worked with non 24p footage? If so, how will it help those of us using 24p in an NLE?

-Jerry

[Barry_Green]

It certainly works with 24P footage. What it doesn't do is convert 60i into being 24P.

[gcaus]

Then I misunderstood. I realized it created different feels to it, but I thought there was a higher end version you needed to buy for it to work with 24p footage. My mistake. (I thought I read that on this forum, o well.)

Wow! Nice addition. I'm happy to see it included. Good idea.

I'll just have to have the CPU running for 7 days 24 hours a day to process a long clip :)

-Jerry