It's not what you've got . . . but how you use it!

[theos]

I went out to shoot some footage yest at magic hour, came home with some lovley stuff, I enjoyed composing the images and fishing for beauty through my eye piece.

I know my DVX has it's limitations and guess what . . . so will any other camera. Yes we can achive a brilliant picture with our tools, but at the end of the day the image has to serve the story . . . so I am glad that this group does have a good and healthy creative spirit rather than only having an tech attitude to the industry that is forming around amipros.

I for myself want to emphisise that relating on the 24P movie makers resolve for creativity is our common ground . . . or is it not? (25 in PAL land)

;D

[HorseFilms]

I agree 100%! I've noticed a trend in this area lately. Everybody with the money for a camera wants to call themselves a videographer. Three months later, when they realize it's not so easy, they are out of business. They have the toys, just not the know-how.

[dvpixl]

so how long have you been at it?
I've been at it for 7 years now. It's not easy. I'm still not there. but I'm still here. let's hear it.

[Kidster]

Absolutely right. Just because one has the tools doesn't mean he can build it. However, learning on the right tool is the way to go.

[theos]

I agree, but in my still camera world, I had a small but good compact digital (Nikon 5700) and have used it for a couple of years taking like 40 gigs of jpegs and I now feel that I have used the camera to its technical limits. I have now started to use the D70 SLR and can take a much more appriciatve aproach and hope that I can do more than I could have done as a newbie with a bomb.

What I mean to say is that there is no shame starting off with something small then moving on as you learn more . . .

I sometimes read the posts like . . . I am 14 and a half and my mum will buy me a camera for my b'day, should I push for the dvx. Nothing wrong with the dvx, but first yuo should prove to yourself,

1. that you love doing it not just a teenage fling
2. that you can hold a camera
3. That you have tried it out with a more reasonable toy . .

for mums sake!

There is no shame in a learning curve.

[HorseFilms]

Exactly. I didn't want to sound like I was ragging on people who use cheaper stuff. Far from it. I was talking about the people who have the expensive stuff with no clue how to use it.

I've been working in video for about 4 years as a freelancer using other people's equipment (mostly shooting BetaSP). Until yesterday, my personal camera was a TRV38 (so I know what it's like to be limited by your equipment). I just got a DVX and I couldn't be happier.

[theos]

Kids change thier shoes when they grow out of them ;)

[Mark_Monciardini]

Or better yet. I hate those people that think everything looks good because of the camera. haha, man are those people WAY off. Most times it's not even the darn camera.

I've seen many guys buy their DVX and do some terrible shots. They thought the DVX was going to make it look good FOR them. The DVX or XL1 will not make anything look good FOR you and will NOT make you a Film Maker. YOU need to work on your shots and composition.

That's one thing I like about this forum. Is that people on here KNOW it's not the camera because they have one too, and they know how hard it is to do shots at times.

Every time I show an amateur my work, they always say "yea that's a nice camera". That makes me want to pull out my gun and shoot them between the eyes. I know that has happen to all of us? So your like "So are you saying that the only reason it looks the way it does is because of the camera and that I have no skills at all?".

Then they try it them selfs and afterward they say "boy do I suck at this". YES you do! Did they mention anything about the camera now? no...

These people will definitely come along and admit to them selves they can not "DO IT".

NOW. If you are doing everything right and have tons of experience and know that you do good work BUT you are not seeing that smooth skin look the XL2s makes or that ability to do 16x9 is missing from your camcorder and the telephoto lens is not enough range for you... THEN You might want to upgrade.

But WAKE UP! Don't go out and buy this XL2 before you have never made anything look decent with what you got! Because you are going to have a wake up call and be very disappointed.

Don't be WAY ahead of your self, you will go camera to camera forever if you keep this attitude and you'll never stop to think "oh maybe I should start reading photography books or maybe work on my skills more often".

You wanted 24p, now you got it. But untill I see you take it to the limit with this camera, don't even talk to me about getting an XL2, because next thing you know you will be buying an DVX200, then a XL3, then a DVX300 and on and on.

Work on your skills and study darn it!

There, got this off my chest!


-Mark

[monster]

Will be interesting to see if Canon's "skin tone detail" actually works or if it is like Panasonic's fake little feature.

[theos]

Mark . . . spot on (even though you sound so angry :o) . . . I was a draftsman and was around for the birth of acad. I got so many years of sarcastic remarks from the drawing board oldies as I worked my way through green screen monitors, 8086's and maths co-processors. In the end they only stopped saying 'eh your stuf looks good cause your using 'The Computer'' the day they they asked me to teach them how to use work with it. Then it was obvious that it was just gonna be a transfer of skills from one media to another. Those that made a mess of their jobs did not improve with an upgrade in hardware!

[dvpixl]

mm hmm, amen to that.

[PaulK]

First of all, I totally believe in the subject line of this thread. But I'm baffled why anyone would care if someone else decided to buy the XL2 or a DVX strictly even if they don't have the knowledge or talent to take advantage of their features.

Some people like to buy high quality stuff, even if they're just dabbling. There's nothing wrong with that if that person can afford it. I think most here would agree there's something aesthetically pleasing using something beautifully engineered even if their skill level doesn't quite match the quality of their gear (not every Porsche owner is a race car driver). If they do get buyer's remorse, they can turn around and sell their camera on Ebay for close to retail as long as it's not damaged.

There's also something to be said for learning on top notch equipment: If the results aren't there, you can eliminate the equipment from the equation (assuming the equipment functions properly, of course).

For example, a friend of mine never fancied himself an Olympic marksman, but he bought one of those top-of-the-line German air rifles that are used by Olympians. He told me that the gun is so accurate, it can shoot every pellet through the same hole made by the first shot at the normal target range. Therefore, if he doesn't hit the bullseye, he knows it was because he took a poor shot and could effectively rule out the gun as a factor -- something he wouldn't be able to do with a cheaper rifle. First-rate equipment provides a more accurate barometer of your true abilities.

[theos]

I have no problem with people buying a cool camera as a paperwieght if that would be the limit of the divide between a worksman and his tool, but when "my paperwieght is cooler than yours" becomes fuel to a fire that kicks up enough smoke to distract the true artists from their work (no matter what tools thay have chosen) then some clearing of the air is mandatory in MHO.

I treasure every piece of advice be it technical or creative because I want to improve my picture. Camera or feature bashing does not produce any light. One last thing that I should say is that on this forum we have some tremendous imput from gurus that would have paid to be in class with, and they are so ready to help and humble in doing so that U would hate to drag them in to any mine vs yours konker squabble. :D

[PaulK]

... but when "my paperwieght is cooler than yours" becomes fuel to a fire that kicks up enough smoke to distract the true artists from their work (no matter what tools thay have chosen) then some clearing of the air is mandatory in MHO.
You think so? I've always found that whole "my paperweight is cooler than yours" argument so ridiculously immature and superficial it's not worth my time. I like to pick my wars. Life is short.

[Cuppajoe_Films]

Personally I think it is wonderful to learn on high quality gear as long as you realize you have a lot to learn. What is irritating is the people who buy the "top of the line" camera (or car, or gun, or ??) and then try to play themselves off as professionals. Many times these same people will complain about the equipment not capturing the same picture as the next guys camera rather than admitting they have a long way to go.

The camera is an important, wonderful tool... but it is A TOOL in the hands of the artist. Know the art... then worry about the tool...

[HorseFilms]

So I guess the moral of the story is... use the tool, don't be one? ;D

[theos]

;D right on!

[monster]

Ok, just to spite you guys I am gonna put an order in for an XL2 an then just use the 16:9 setting to capture my dog taking a crap every mornng. ;D

[monte]

/me eats a box of lemons

Yuck

[TimurCivan]

ok, after reading this whole discussion, i feel better in a way. I was worried the DVX was gonna be too much camera for me, only because of the 24P feature.... ( i would somehow feel obligated to use it, other wise get a VX or a XL1) and all the additional stuff neccesary to use it, Final cut 4, Vegas ETC, 16:9 adaptor, Better computer than i have......

And i got worried feeling like , oh crap am i one of thoes horrible creatures whose gonna get the camera and not use it to its potential? Till i realised, wait. Ive covered 3 Events using my Sony handycam ( super amatuer image, but trying my best, interms of aesthetics), and basically crying from frustration cause of the amount aliasing, color bleeding, and Signal noise. but.. im getting Job offers from other people after seeing my work. So maybe its not a waste if i learn the DVX properly.

Ok you guys, i'm sold... I really wanna learn now.

In that case, are there any specific things you can think of to do to help improve skills? DVDojo classes? or did you guys learn just by trial and error? Any good books? I heard somethign about a free DVXuser.com compilation manual or something..... Anythign helps.

-Thanks

[HorseFilms]

I know what you're saying, x2mag68. I was thinking the same thing a little while ago. Before I got my DVX, I had only owned consumer cams. You can really get a good image out of them if you light things right. But there comes a time where you get sick of your equipment limiting what you can do. For the last year or so, I've been doing very regular work with a company that shoots BetaSP. After using those cams, seeing the quality and then going home to my TRV38... I couldn't take it anymore.

It sounds like you feel you have a grasp on how to shoot good video. Get the camera. If you have questions, that's what this site is for. Read every thread you can. That's what I did (long before I bought the DVX). You'll find answers.

[theos]

The tresures that lie beneath the surface of DVXuser is deep . . . get lost in the vast expance of knowledge and experience!

[TimurCivan]

well im an artist, in school for it in fact. I shoot photo, but mostly do video/instillation/sculpture. So just through taking lots of pictures, i kinda got a graps of good composition.. i figured why noyt apply it to video. Its all basically thesame thing, Shutter, apeture, focus and "film" or CCD in this case. but with all th fun of post production.
Some how, videography kinda seemed a natural way for me to make a living. Its challenging, but fun as well. Plus you get fun toys to play with.
So its good to know theres an easy way of getting help from people who know how to do thigns properly.

thnks you guys