My Review of the XL2

[Guest]

My Review of the XL2. :D

I've owned it for 5 days now and just today shot 2 weddings with it. I also own the DVX100. I am a professional videographer.

I love the XL2.

However, Every video posting I've seen on the web has been XL2 shot with out of the box settings. Well, the out of the box settings are not that impressive. They don't even have the cine gamma and other cine settings turned on. You have to go into the menu to set the camera up right if you want something impressive.

I got my XL2 monday and It wasn't till day 3 that I got around to making some settings that looked really good.

There are so many options for look with this camera that it is most certain that most people will shoot some pretty plain footage. (B/c the camera can do that too if you want it to) The camera does not shoot magic all the time. You have to set it up for that. But when you get it right it is very impressive. This camera is not just for theatrical 24p film simulation. It is made for the run and gun 60i videographer as well.

Now is it better than the DVX. Yes and no but mostly yes. That seems to be the question with apprehensive DVX users. They don't want something to come along and knock them off the top of the hill. That's why there is so much neigh saying on this forum. (This is DVXuser.com!) But let me tell you, it is only nick picking at small details that don't make or break anything at all. Complaining about the buttons being plasticy is silly. If you look hard enough, you can find a fault with any video camera. Both cams are different and have there own strengths and weaknesses.

Now, what is my initial 5 day opinion;

Both are great cams. Neither can defiantly be called better than the other. You can always find a situation where one would be prefered to the other. I'll give you some examples -

A few of DVX's advantages:
1) lighter weight, (XL2 can get heavy after 30 mins)
2)wider lens, (but XL2 has lenses for that)
3) Smaller size gives you the advantage of go anywhere shoot anything. Easier to cary around and have fun with.
4) Bigger LCD. (XL2's is puny, but makes sense with its layout.)

A few of XL2's advantages:
1)More powerful when you have enough room so that you can get good shots easier than with the DVX.
2)Better focus, Better DOF. (if you have the room)
3)Fantastic zoom power That's more controllable than DVX
4)Better Low Light. Much better.
5)Better gain. DVX's gain is messy in comparison.
6)More complete control over picture variations like color. I was able to mess with it to make a 24p image that is very colorful.


The Final Verdict:
The XL2 is a 5 thousand dollar DVX100. :)
In fact, had panasonic made it, it would be a DVX200. A DVX with interchangle lenses and 16:9, more control, more features, ect.

In the end, with the right accessories, it is possible to get a similarly great picture quality with both cameras.

So which one do you get?
I recommend that if you have 5 thousand dollars, buy the XL2. If you only have 3,500, buy the DVX. Problem solved. Both can be set up to have a similar picture and can be used in two camera shoots.

The XL2 footage will not blow you away that much more than the DVX will - except for maybe the 16:9.

Contrary to popular belief, the XL2 actually looks a lot better on a properly set up good 25' SD monitor rather than a very large 50' HDTV. (-Perhaps a smaller 20'-30' HDTV would be best for presentation) Maybe. See, blowing up any SD source really big ruins it. Just Think, The bigger the TV the bigger the pixels.

I could go on with more if you want. I just think that all the down talk about the XL2 is because people were expecting the same revolution in quality as when the DVX came out. But just as canon says; this is an evolution not a revolution. That is true. And I for one am very happy with it.

I could go on if you want but this is getting long.

Talk back.

[araujofh]

The XL2 may even be better than the DVX, but why should DVX owners buy another camera, when they are going to spend a lot more money for a camera that does pretty much the same as what they already own?
There are many guys that didn't sell their DVX100 to buy a DVX100A. Barry is one of them (well, at least that is what I read in this forum on one of his posts).

I just think that we should stick to what we have, unless the other camera is far superior, which it isn't. And if you don't have it already, it depends on the budget just like you said.

All the best

Fidel.

[skippyfetus]

Fidel, why don't you give it a rest? I know your mother gave you your DVX on her deathbed and the virgin mary once appeared in the LCD screen, but it's not worthy of such worship.

I wish that Jarred would go ahead and open up XL2 user so that XL2 posts won't have that "troll" feel to them.

[Ranger]

Thanks Gang Green,

For many of us fence sitters any feedback is better than nothing at all. Your assessment of both cameras seemed fair and impartial.

[author]

Thanks Gang Green,

For many of us fence sitters any feedback is better than nothing at all. Your assessment of both cameras seemed fair and impartial.

I agree... for those of us trying to make the purchase decision between DVX and XL2 such comments based on actual shooting experience are exceptionally helpful!

Now, if someone would just give us an example of how to properly set up the XL2 over the "out of the box" settings.

Thanks!

--Ralph
;)

[donbarzini]

Thanks for your review Gang Green. When you say the XL2 has better focus, are you comparing to the original DVX100? I can't beleive that focusing would be easier from the color viewfinder or the small 2" LCD on the XL2 that does not even have a peaking control circuit. When I owned my XL1 and XL1s, I had to purchase the 16X manual lens to even attempt to get critical focus without bringing an external CRT. I've only had my DVX100A for a couple weeks now but that small peaking upgrade does wonders.

[David Jimerson]

Interesting.

Question -- what do you mean by "better" depth of field?

[Shaw]

Let's see some footage!

[disjecta]

Interesting.

Question -- what do you mean by "better" depth of field?

With a 20x lens at full zoom, you are going to get a much narrower perceived depth of field than the DVX's lens.

By the way, what is the focal length of the XL2's lens at full wide?

[J.R. Hudson]

My favorite part was:


They don't want something to come along and knock them off the top of the hill.

Is that the case? Really? What if I just am in no position to purchase another camera? What if the Xl2 isn't as much a quantam leap to warrant another purchase of a new camera? I think you nailed it when you stated "it's an evolution not a revolution..."

Someone mentioned in another thread (and it applies across the board), The XL2 can be better, worse or the same difference of another but it doesn't really matter if "Schlep" the Ass Monkey is using the camera.

The debate (which is subjective) is growing tired. Personally, I awaiting the official DVX/XL2 side by side comparison to realy see the differences compared. But even if God came down and said "John, the Xl2 is the superior camera." it wouldnt matter because my wife isn't going to let me spend another $4000.00.

My point is? The DVX and the Xl2 are great tools for us inde filmmakers and not one camera has a make or break option that the other does not. Whichever the case, get out and start making films. In the long and short of it, it comes down to the story.

If I had to choose between The Day After Tomorrow shot on Panavison 35's and it's $175 Million Dollar Budget or Pieces of April shot on PD-150's and a $300,000 Dollar Budget I'll take the chick anyday.

Whichever camera is 'better' (whatever that means) it is of no importance. Because the guys that are using the $12,000 and $60,000 dollar versions are probally shaking their heads.

I can care less about being "knocked off the hill". I know what I have.

[David Jimerson]

With a 20x lens at full zoom, you are going to get a much narrower perceived depth of field than the DVX's lens.


I know what *I* would think it would mean, but I'd rather wait to see what HE meant by it.

[disjecta]

Oh, fair enough. :-X

[Guest]

Would it be too much to ask to post a few frame grabs or even footage of this camera with some cinelike settings?

why after so much time are we all still waiting to see?

thanks,
td (feeling rustrated)

[J.R. Hudson]

I think we are all waiting for the magic. :-/

[gcaus]

This is a bit mean...but frankly, I'm tired of reading reviews and not seeing footage to back it up. :-/

Jarred says in another thread the DVX is better in low light, here it's worse. For one, I wonder if you can boost the gain on the XL2 without increasing grain too much...

Can't wait to see footage.

-Jerry

[Zach Lien]

freaken A i just bought my dvx100a. i'd rather not know if its better or not... ;D

[J.R. Hudson]

The camera is only as good as you brother!

[PFP_VIDEO]

Gang Green do you own any Canon stock? Your post sounded like an ad and I turn the channels during commercials. Your post did nothing but make me wonder why you posted it here. The DVINFO XL2 watchdog forum is better suited for this repetitive arguement.
No my mom didn't give me a DVX on her deathbed. I bought mine after a year of exhaustive research and comparisons. No, there was no xl2 to comapre it to, but there was the xl1s and the Canon reputation. The xl2 has native 16X9, better dsp,cinegamma. What that means Canons camera evolutionized itself into something comparable to the DVX , not above or below it in any means. The xl2 is an aspiring DVX, not its superior.
When the cameras are tested head to head or some of the mouths who praise the very footage they say they are shooting from the XL2, fine then maybe Ill believe. I'll believe I spent less for a superior product. :P

[Zoomforce]

Thanks for the review. very fair indeed.. better zoom though? I hope you just mean in length as by control the servo zoom on the XL2 is probally close to, if not way past, the worst zoom on any camera I have ever used. The think is like a damn yoyo,, you cant hit a precise focal length because it just steps. Also If you are doing dramatic stuff good luck because you will never be able match angles, there are no zoom markings or readouts. same goes with focus.

And for Bias, I just spent more money then it would of cost to buy a new XL2 to fly to LA and do a professional comparison, I was really hoping for the XL2 to come ahead, as XL2user.com is ready and I wanted it to be a step forward.... but, of course, that is my opinion, there are still people that say the XL1 is better than the DVX.

[skippyfetus]

Jarred, if you were shooting something really important couldn't you mark the lens with a strip of gaffer's tape or something for focus and zoom?

The XL2 is supposed to be programable, so I hope it's possible to program it to give the focal length and focus distance on the display... that would be super cool. Has anybody heard what kinds of things are possible with the programming thing?

[MovieSwede]

The DVX is the strongest link on my chain of production. Now I just have to match the rest.

Before i bought the DVX, I watched "28 days later". I saw that the quality in that movie wasnt to my satisfaction. Now I have the DVX and the thing thats going to make the difference is me.

Unless Im going to shoot lions or a mad moose, im dont have any need to uppgrade to either DVX100A or XL2.

[Antoine_Fabi]

I can't wait to see Jarred Land's DVX/XL2 comparison footage because i tought the the XL2 footages i've seen looked extremely clean sharp and resolute, but i've not seen any true A/B.

[PaulK]

Now is it better than the DVX. Yes and no but mostly yes. That seems to be the question with apprehensive DVX users. They don't want something to come along and knock them off the top of the hill.

Yeah, I just don't get that whole mindset. I bought the DVX and love it, but that doesn't mean I feel threatened by a worthy competitor. I wish I had money for both. Or, I should say, I wish I was so rich that I could buy the XL2 just for the fun of it.

The truth is, I have no need for a better camera at this point because the DVX is so much better than I am. I may never gain the skills necessary to do something like win the Best Cinematography award at Sundance like Nancy Schreiber did with her DVX, so it makes little sense to me to buy the latest greatest when I still have so much to learn using my current camera.

In all likelyhood my DVX will fall apart before I outgrow it. :)

[J.R. Hudson]

Well put.

Yeah, I trip out on people making remarks pertaining to "DVXusers are upset; DVXusers are threatended; DVXusers are afraid of being knocked form the top...."

WTF is that shite? Who gives a flying Ferngilly. You are only as the good as the camera. Period. The XL2 is surely no make or break camera. It surely is not the camera we all dream about (The true INDIE DV camera with HD, 24p, Native 16:9, interchangeable lenses, follow focus, mattebox... well you get the idea.)

Probally a Canon Rep.

[araujofh]

Fidel, why don't you give it a rest? I know your mother gave you your DVX on her deathbed and the virgin mary once appeared in the LCD screen, but it's not worthy of such worship.

I think you are the one who should give it a rest. As far as my posting goes, I didn't mention anything that gave any hint of worshiping the DVX. I just think it is stupid to spend more money on a camera that does something similar to what you already own, but as you could also read, I mentioned that they have an option if the budget allows. So, just stop being so defensive with your future XL2.

I don't really know what is wrong with you. If you love the XL2, then go for it. No one is stopping you from buying it. Of course, you don't have the money, right? That is not my problem.
And if someone else has got the money and they buy whatever they choose that's their choice, not mine.

Just give it a rest yourself, because I think you are the one who seems to be worshipping something you don't even own.

[J.R. Hudson]

He's got a point TONY H. Let's all chill.

[David Jimerson]

Well put.

Yeah, I trip out on people making remarks pertaining to "DVXusers are upset; DVXusers are threatended; DVXusers are afraid of being knocked form the top...."

WTF is that shite? *Who gives a flying Ferngilly. *You are only as the good as the camera. *Period. *

Didn't you mean to say that the camera is only as good as you, the guy who's using it?

;)

[J.R. Hudson]

LMAO! Yes. ::) :-[ :D

Sometimes in I'm auto pilot, huh? Sorry, invoicing today (A little pre-occupied) :P

[PFP_VIDEO]

I just built an altar for my DVX, next to my altar for hot chicks. Also am working on a XL2 altar, it's called a dumpster.

[skippyfetus]

Yeah, I just don't get that whole mindset. I bought the DVX and love it, but that doesn't mean I feel threatened by a worthy competitor. I wish I had money for both. Or, I should say, I wish I was so rich that I could buy the XL2 just for the fun of it.

The truth is, I have no need for a better camera at this point because the DVX is so much better than I am. I may never gain the skills necessary to do something like win the Best Cinematography award at Sundance like Nancy Schreiber did with her DVX, so it makes little sense to me to buy the latest greatest when I still have so much to learn using my current camera.

In all likelyhood my DVX will fall apart before I outgrow it. *:)
Yup, I feel that way a lot... cameras today are so complex that you could really almost spend years trying to get comfortable with them.

I just don't understand people who are so loyal to their chosen brand that they actually don't want to see new and better products come out.

If it weren't for the competition between Panasonic and Canon there probably wouldn't be a DVX or an XL2.

[skippyfetus]

I think you are the one who should give it a rest. As far as my posting goes, I didn't mention anything that gave any hint of worshiping the DVX. I just think it is stupid to spend more money on a camera that does something similar to what you already own, but as you could also read, I mentioned that they have an option if the budget allows. So, just stop being so defensive with your future XL2.

I don't really know what is wrong with you. If you love the XL2, then go for it. No one is stopping you from buying it. Of course, you don't have the money, right? That is not my problem.
And if someone else has got the money and they buy whatever they choose that's their choice, not mine.

Just give it a rest yourself, because I think you are the one who seems to be worshipping something you don't even own.

You're the one who gets defensive every time someone says something good about a camera other than yours.

Your idolitry of the DVX is just creepy that's all. Repeat after me, "it's just a product, it's just a product, it's just a product".

I guess it's not surprising that people get attached to their cameras. Muscians get attached to their instruments, but I doubt that they get upset at newer models of guitar.

Personally, I think the XL2 is going to be a great product that's a better value for me than a DVX especially when I go to shoot my movie. You shouldn't make such broad statements as if the camera is a bad idea for everyone just because you wouldn't benefit from the change.

[PFP_VIDEO]

Perhaps it was the Canon enthusiasts who started all this. When the DVX came out they stuck by there XL1's nit picking apart the DVX and saying how the xl1 was superior in some respects ( add laugh track here ). So they waited and waited and waited and then they waited some more. Alas the XL2 is debuted. The Canon enthusiasts finally had something to knock the Panasonic off the so called pedestal we "enthusiasts" have it perched on. By no means have I really been into any Panasonic products. Maybe the enthusiasm is not just in the product, but the company that backed us up, listened to us, and created a camera to fit our proffesional needs, almost perfectly, and then released the 100a to top it all off. Sure I may seem defensive sometimes, but I have to be in the enviroment the Canon enthusiasts create when they want to rip my camera a new butt hole, even before the XL2 was out.

[skippyfetus]

PFP, you're one of those product psychos... the next step for you is a Panasonic tattoo... it's OK, just use the camera that's best for you... no need to get angry unless you've got equiptment angst.

[David Jimerson]

Let's chill out, guys.

[J.R. Hudson]

Somebody lock this pleeeeaaazzzzeee!

[cinebuddy]

Holy shitty city...another one!! Man what is happening to this board? Its only in this section where people can't seem to play nice. Bloods vs Crips, Dead Rabbits vs. The Natives, Eagles vs. The Cowboys...man WTF? There is nothing to knock off you can make 28 days after November with either fuc*ing camera. Is it that personal?

[skippyfetus]

Oh good god, you don't have to lock every thread that isn't shiney-happy-people... can we have some freedom of speach here?

[cinebuddy]

Constitutional challenges now, 1st amendment rights, we need to look at the intent of the founding fathers to determine what their intent was in regards to the xl2 and dvx...so much was left to interpretation...must look to the intent of therframers.

[J.R. Hudson]

Holy shitty city...another one!! *Man what is happening to this board? *Its only in this section where people can't seem to play nice. *Bloods vs Crips, Dead Rabbits vs. The Natives, *Eagles vs. The Cowboys...man WTF? *There is nothing to knock off you can make 28 days after November with either fuc*ing camera. *Is it that personal?

LMAO!

[cinebuddy]

I don't know John after my last little tiff on here it all seems so funny. I'm like hell why am I arguing (defending) like i'm in moot court again. I have both camera's, i'll probably grab the sony when it comes out. Who gives a shit if it my clients don't like what I do with any of the three. I gotta get my reel and web page together, and not argue about two cameras I love about equally. Where one pisses me off my brother is shooting with the other and at the end of the day i'm done twice as fast with a warm and fuzzy feeling and a check. Come to think of it, I think I like Crucial ram better than Kingston. Maxtor better than Western Digital. Nuendo better than Protools. Neuman better than Blue Mics, and Avalon pres better than Manley. Regan better than Bush, George Clinton more than I like Bill (he's funkier). That's how this shit's starting too sound on here, beligerent for no reason if its that serious we can all meet at Joe Hands gym in Philly, lace up the gloves and go a few three minute rounds for the undisputed 24p belt. lol

[cinebuddy]

I am however ready for Jared's review. He's always been on point and ususally finds an f'n bug in something which makes my stomach as queezy as shooting on N. Broad St.