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View Full Version : Which lenses should I use to create this look? Music Video Link Inside



Cieloent
08-06-2010, 04:40 AM
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Also here is another link that i love the Lighting and would want something similar as well

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Basically were going to be shooting a night time music video and I want to make sure I have the correct lens to achieve a similar look ( Canon t2i )


thanks

PerroneFord
08-06-2010, 05:56 AM
Ok, I know this probably isn't going to be taken the right way, but I have to say it.

First, what "look" are you talking about? These videos are night and day different, and it has nearly nothing to do with the lenses.

Second, While Jay-Z's video doesn't necessarily demand a huge budget to pull off, the second video does if you want to replicate it.

Third, the "lens" doesn't do much to create any kind of "look" beyond stuff like overall softness, bloom, and if you want to exploit things like flare in the lens. If this is the stuff you mean, then you need to spell that out so we have some idea of what you're talking about.

Lastly, and I know this is a bit contentious, doing a music video is NOT the place to be learning about lensing. I see so many people asking questions like this. About to go out on a paid shoot and asking absolutely fundamental questions about lsnses, lighting, camera movement, etc. Why does it seem that no one wants to spend any time actually learning the craft any more?

Frankly, neither of these videos is anything to aspire to. The Jay-Z video is a cookie cutter thing that went out 10 years ago. The second video's cut-a-second thing is nearly seizure inducing.

However, both videos have something in common. Both have a significant lighting package on hand to light a rather large set. And creating something similar is going to require using something similar. And this, more than anything else, separates new shooters, from professional shooters. New shooters don't have an electrical/grip truck when they go on a shoot. In just looking at the lighting and effects in the second video, it would not surprise me for a moment if they had $50k worth of lighting and grip for that shoot. I'd bet for a 1 day rental, they probably spent a couple grand in lighting alone.

I'm truly sorry if this comes across as harsh. It's honestly not meant to. It's more an expression of my frustration at creative people not taking the required time to master their craft before trying to do work. You don't paint the Mona Lisa as your first effort. And you don't make high end music videos before you have a basic understanding of the camera and lighting departments.

Now, if you want some SPECIFIC technical advice, put it out there. Take a specific frame of one of the videos, post it here, and ask what lens it might be, what lights are on, what was likely done in post, etc. Then you might get some specific answers and some helpful ones.

HDkilledFILM.
08-06-2010, 06:56 AM
Just buy a white keyboard guitar and some white sun glasses! That's my girl!

boulder
08-06-2010, 07:53 AM
Thanks! But how can I achive this look?

19653

Alex H.
08-06-2010, 08:21 AM
Thanks! But how can I achive this look?

19653

That requires a highly-specialized lens. 12mm aspherical with zero-gravity image stabilization. f22 or higher (plus ample layers of ND), 'cause sunlight's a real killer outside of the atmosphere.

Zeiss used to make one, but I think Tokina is the only one left.

Cieloent
08-06-2010, 09:57 AM
Ok, I know this probably isn't going to be taken the right way, but I have to say it.

First, what "look" are you talking about? These videos are night and day different, and it has nearly nothing to do with the lenses.

Second, While Jay-Z's video doesn't necessarily demand a huge budget to pull off, the second video does if you want to replicate it.

Third, the "lens" doesn't do much to create any kind of "look" beyond stuff like overall softness, bloom, and if you want to exploit things like flare in the lens. If this is the stuff you mean, then you need to spell that out so we have some idea of what you're talking about.

Lastly, and I know this is a bit contentious, doing a music video is NOT the place to be learning about lensing. I see so many people asking questions like this. About to go out on a paid shoot and asking absolutely fundamental questions about lsnses, lighting, camera movement, etc. Why does it seem that no one wants to spend any time actually learning the craft any more?

Frankly, neither of these videos is anything to aspire to. The Jay-Z video is a cookie cutter thing that went out 10 years ago. The second video's cut-a-second thing is nearly seizure inducing.

However, both videos have something in common. Both have a significant lighting package on hand to light a rather large set. And creating something similar is going to require using something similar. And this, more than anything else, separates new shooters, from professional shooters. New shooters don't have an electrical/grip truck when they go on a shoot. In just looking at the lighting and effects in the second video, it would not surprise me for a moment if they had $50k worth of lighting and grip for that shoot. I'd bet for a 1 day rental, they probably spent a couple grand in lighting alone.

I'm truly sorry if this comes across as harsh. It's honestly not meant to. It's more an expression of my frustration at creative people not taking the required time to master their craft before trying to do work. You don't paint the Mona Lisa as your first effort. And you don't make high end music videos before you have a basic understanding of the camera and lighting departments.

Now, if you want some SPECIFIC technical advice, put it out there. Take a specific frame of one of the videos, post it here, and ask what lens it might be, what lights are on, what was likely done in post, etc. Then you might get some specific answers and some helpful ones.



Seems like a lot of fluff in this post. First and foremost I am living witness that I can do these jobs, because I have done them. All it takes is a mind to do it. I am not afraid to tackle any job, small or large.


Also as a Hustler I can and will do anything to get that $. This is how I have done everything in my life, from being a musician to a mechanic to all kind of things. I am self taught and considered by my peers as a genius.

Imagine a beautiful party with lighting everywhere and people enjoying life, all I need to do is capture that moment. Your post does not bother me at all, it just only proves how strong my mind is to handle any job thrown at me.

The reason I am being paid is because people have seen my work and I can replicate almost anything. I have about a week to figure this out which is more then enough time.

As of now I will be using the kit lens, 50mm 1.8 and probably renting a 24mm 1.4 and just create magic like I always do. Finally I don't care what you like or don't like the world doesn't need something new, only something they I have seen which they already like.

peace

HDkilledFILM.
08-06-2010, 10:02 AM
Also as a Hustler I can and will do anything to get that $. This is how I have done everything in my life, from being a musician to a mechanic to all kind of things. I am self taught and considered by my peers as a genius.


A word of advice, never ever call yourself a genius... it just sounds bad.

PerroneFord
08-06-2010, 10:08 AM
A word of advice, never ever call yourself a genius... it just sounds bad.

Especially, when you are asking for free help from people who know the answers you don't.

Gary Huff
08-06-2010, 10:53 AM
As of now I will be using the kit lens, 50mm 1.8 and probably renting a 24mm 1.4 and just create magic like I always do.

Where is this magic? Do you have any links?

twocik23
08-06-2010, 01:23 PM
Lenses won't buy you experience. This is more than just what lens this guy/company used. You have to look at the lighting, set design, color correction or if a matte box & filters were used, etc.. just to name a few. Of course the lens speed does play a little part, but knowing how to use it properly helps even more. You can buy the best lens in the world and if you don't light it properly it will look bad. I'd read more on lighting before you go and buy a bunch of stuff you don't need.



As for a lens recommendation, just like I've suggested in post after post, can't go wrong with canon L series lenses. They are expensive but worth every penny ! Good luck with your shoot and hope it works out for you.


Guys play nice ! :)

Cieloent
08-06-2010, 01:37 PM
A word of advice, never ever call yourself a genius... it just sounds bad.



I said I have been told that by my friends which felt very good because of everything I have accomplished. So this is not something I said personally , but still for people to tell you that I know I'm doing something right.


Especially, when you are asking for free help from people who know the answers you don't.

I never said I knew everything, but seeking for knowledge is key. I was once told this by a college professor. Also it's really nothing that you feel bothered by the "new wave" of directors/editors. The public at the end of the day are our judges and if by the grace of life I continue to be hired it lets me know I am doing something right which I truly am great full for.

Just by me coming to these forums and asking a question how I could achieve this is someone who cares about their art and more importantly loves it.


My expressions and thoughts is the person I am, good or bad. I thank these forums and great people which I have learned so much from, but when it's time to move on you have to go. This is my final post on these forums it's time for me to spread my wings and fly.

Thank you everyone that has helped me personally or from everything I have read. I apologize to any and everyone I disrespected, this is my love and my emotions.......


By the Grace of God I will continue my art and Hopefully one day people will know, understand and appreciate my art

Good Bye everyone this has been a great place to learn from

peace

boulder
08-06-2010, 02:19 PM
Good luck on your quest and hopfully someday we will ba able to realize the true genuis among us like your friends do.

Lammy
08-06-2010, 02:41 PM
Oh my days, my rather helpful post was deleted.

Was this because I made an astute observation that both videos also contained black people and the colloquial term for a "lewd woman"?

Psh, admins should concentrate more on context and topic, rather than be the political correctness police...

Derkoi
08-06-2010, 03:01 PM
If you're such a 'genius' and 'can replicate almost anything' then why ask silly questions?

I can't stand people who don't listen to the advice of others after asking for help.

Pietro Impagliazzo
08-06-2010, 04:38 PM
Good luck on your quest and hopfully someday we will ba able to realize the true genuis among us like your friends do.


If you're such a 'genius' and 'can replicate almost anything' then why ask silly questions?

I can't stand people who don't listen to the advice of others after asking for help.

http://a.imageshack.us/img217/5335/lol5b15d.jpg


I said I have been told that by my friends which felt very good because of everything I have accomplished. So this is not something I said personally , but still for people to tell you that I know I'm doing something right.



I never said I knew everything, but seeking for knowledge is key. I was once told this by a college professor. Also it's really nothing that you feel bothered by the "new wave" of directors/editors. The public at the end of the day are our judges and if by the grace of life I continue to be hired it lets me know I am doing something right which I truly am great full for.

Just by me coming to these forums and asking a question how I could achieve this is someone who cares about their art and more importantly loves it.


My expressions and thoughts is the person I am, good or bad. I thank these forums and great people which I have learned so much from, but when it's time to move on you have to go. This is my final post on these forums it's time for me to spread my wings and fly.

Thank you everyone that has helped me personally or from everything I have read. I apologize to any and everyone I disrespected, this is my love and my emotions.......


By the Grace of God I will continue my art and Hopefully one day people will know, understand and appreciate my art

Good Bye everyone this has been a great place to learn from

peace

OP, you did it.

I'm definitely afraid of you now.

Jason Ramsey
08-06-2010, 04:40 PM
alright guys... let's mellow it back out...

HDkilledFILM.
08-06-2010, 05:27 PM
To the OP, sorry if I offended you (I get punched in the face allot). These boards need people like you, and people like you (and ME) need these boards. Don't stop posting or reading posts because these boards are a way to obtain knowledge (for FREE!!!) which will, in the end, help you obtain your full potential as a film maker.-Adam

dangerd
08-07-2010, 04:33 AM
Was that for real?

Gary Huff
08-07-2010, 11:00 AM
Hey, I think I found some of his "magic"!

v98vBa9dmHA

Derkoi
08-07-2010, 11:31 AM
If that's magic i'm a magician. rofl

boulder
08-07-2010, 12:12 PM
whoa!

David Jimerson
08-10-2010, 07:51 AM
Oh my days, my rather helpful post was deleted.

Was this because I made an astute observation that both videos also contained black people and the colloquial term for a "lewd woman"?

Psh, admins should concentrate more on context and topic, rather than be the political correctness police...

Problems with moderation belong in PMs.

Rakesh Jacob
08-10-2010, 08:07 AM
Amazing thread! Confidence is a muhfuka!
So nice to wake up and read something so absolutely and thoroughly entertaining :)
It's gonna be a great day, I am filled with new perspective after reading this for some strange reason.

But to stay on topic, the Dream video was more than likely a 5Dmkii with a 50mm f1.4, maybe 35mm f1.4, wide open and that back light is key for the look.

Rakesh Jacob
08-10-2010, 08:08 AM
Problems with moderation...

Quite aprapos!

steventimothy
08-10-2010, 08:34 AM
To help answer the OP question: get a fast prime wide, like a 24 or less as fast as possible, maybe a 50 f1.4, and an 85 f1.4. An all-pupose zoom like an 18-200 can't hurt either, to CYA if you need tighter or wider.

They might have used a tilt shift - that would be a fun lens to rent and try. Practice first though.

If you don't have the lighting budget they did you'll have to be creative - but fast lenses and imagination can overcome that somewhat.

You can get a nice look without a lot of lights but you'll never have that super over-produced look that they've achieved without throwing about 100,000 watts at the set.

I'm sure you know this, but shoot some tests with friends on your desired set, if possible, with the lenses you have. Then you'll know what kind of look you'll have, where to put fill lights if necessary, what minimum f-stop will be necessary, what your ISO will likely be, whether or not you'll have a lot of noise, etc. etc.

That will tell you a lot about what lenses you'll need.

A lot of the look was achieved in post - desaturation, glows, compressed blacks, that sort of thing.

Good luck!

Gary Huff
08-10-2010, 11:04 AM
If you don't have the lighting budget they did you'll have to be creative - but fast lenses and imagination can overcome that somewhat.

That's a very limited "somewhat"...light is not just about making things brighter.

Hawk Teflon
08-10-2010, 11:58 AM
Good Bye everyone this has been a great place to learn from

peace

That sucks. I hate seeing DVXUsers leave because of disagreements and the like.

Lammy
08-10-2010, 03:54 PM
Well before my post was deleted I said:

1st Video with R Kelly and Jay Z, 35mm film and cinema lenses, the lenses just have excellent properties about them such as the compression, bokeh, and colour saturation. Unless you had the money to rent the same gear, you wont get that look easily at all. Maybe the Carl Zeiss ZE lenses or Leica are your bet. A good set of those primes, shot at f/2.8 and at least f/4 for the group shots.

2nd Video is easier to replicate the look of the lens, as you can buy and rent these lenses easily. They look mainly like L glass on a full frame Canon 5D, maybe the Canon 24-70L lens shot wide open. Note those lenses wont look the same on your 550D.



Problems with moderation belong in PMs.

Fair enough.

Now I too, will probably leave these forums.

To be honest, I'm disgusted by the bullying in this thread and the way posters veer off tangent. What if Cieloent was abit of a mentally deranged army vet, and then proceeded to blow his head off due to this thread? Or worse, been put off by persuing his dreams of filmmaking?

Unprofessional and nasty behaviour guys. I think he asked a perfectly reasonable question about what lenses could do those looks, and yet he gets blasted by people lecturing the obvious and who love nothing more than to hear their own voice.

Andrew Sisnett
08-11-2010, 06:33 AM
Thanks! But how can I achive this look?

19653


You need a canon 7D, philip bloom's dvd and a tokina 11-16 with a fader ND.

handsome pete
08-11-2010, 07:10 AM
What if Cieloent was abit of a mentally deranged army vet, and then proceeded to blow his head off due to this thread?

Seriously?


I think he asked a perfectly reasonable question about what lenses could do those looks, and yet he gets blasted by people lecturing the obvious and who love nothing more than to hear their own voice.He did ask a valid question. But I also thought he was given a pretty valid response. Granted, some of the posts later in the thread might have gone over the line, but it wasn't until he went on the defensive after being given some honest advice. There's a track record of him not being able to take constructive criticism or even having a civil back and forth dialog with anyone who has a different opinion.

Abaddon
08-11-2010, 09:04 AM
A word of advice, never ever call yourself a genius... it just sounds bad.

For real. That's just tacky.

Jordan_S
08-11-2010, 09:25 AM
"Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day."
~Samuel Goldwyn

truehuss
08-11-2010, 09:08 PM
Good luck on your quest and hopefully someday we will be able to realize the true genius among us like your friends do.


I'm LMFAO!!

seriously funny.. but for real though cieloent, if you gonna have thin skin you might wanna find a new line of work. Your "leaving dvxuser so you can spread your wings"..? was dvxuser holding you back in some way? You were learning here. And why would you want to leave somewhere where your obviously learning from people who have done it & are doing it, simply because of disagreements?? That makes no sense.

and if as you say, 'no one understands you' and only YOU do, don't you think it may be because the problem isn't everyone else its...YOU?

By the way , I'm considered a puerto rican prince here in north philly but I have yet to be crowned!

Lammy
08-12-2010, 04:26 AM
Seriously?

Naw, hence why I said there's something worse than blowing his own head off :P



Granted, some of the posts later in the thread might have gone over the line, but it wasn't until he went on the defensive after being given some honest advice. There's a track record of him not being able to take constructive criticism or even having a civil back and forth dialog with anyone who has a different opinion.

Good point... his posts do have a seeping tone of insecurity and ego.

But grabbing his work out and laughing at it is harsh times guys- We've all got rubbish 1st videos. I would so lol if that wasn't even his too.

Gary Huff
08-12-2010, 05:56 PM
But grabbing his work out and laughing at it is harsh times guys- We've all got rubbish 1st videos. I would so lol if that wasn't even his too.

I'm sorry, but if someone is going to proclaim themselves as a "genius" (ostensibly because of what he can do with video) and proclaim that he keeps getting "hired" because of the "magic" he provides, then he should post some footage and let it stand on its on...or not. And if he won't, then others (like me) will want to see if he's all talk or if he's overblown but still delivers.

Derkoi
08-13-2010, 02:45 AM
We've all got rubbish 1st videos.

Very true, but the difference is some knew they were rubbish & listened to advice on ways to improve them and didn't fly off the handle when it wasn't something they wanted to hear.

Also there's confidence and arrogance. To me, this guy preferred the latter.