Will this sync?

[Connolly]

I am looking to record live audio at a concert venue, I came across this Zoom MRS-802B - 8 Track Digital Recording Studio

http://www.canalhifi.com/cgi-bin/chfstore.cgiuser_action=detail&catalogno=zmmrs802b #

which looks like it will do the job, but Im wondering if it will sync to my camera. It records directly to hard drive, anybody have any idea if it will do the job?

Scott

[Connolly]

Sorry here is a link that should actually work

http://www.bananas.com/productdetail.asp/pid_1644/productname_Zoom-MRS-802B-Multi-Track-Recording-Studio

[Barry_S]

Before you buy the Zoom, you should investigate the quality of the recorder. *Maybe someone else here is familiar with the particular model or the brand. *You can sync a recording from the Zoom recorder to your DVX100 video, but the question is --how much work will it take? *There are a lot of different concert recording scenarios and being able to *easily* sync the sound is the goal. *If the concert is short enough to fit on one DV tape, then one option is starting the Zoom and your DVX at the same time and keeping both running continuously through the entire concert regardless of what's happening. *You need to slate the beginning of the tapes with a clapper or light+tone. *Slating periodically can also help. If you can't keep the camera running continuously, then setting the DVX100's *time code generator to Free Run will give you a consistent time reference if you have a complete audio recording. *There are a lot of ways to go for recording a concert depending on the event and your preferences.

[ullanta]

Well, it should work. I can't vouch for the Zoom itself. I'd suggest the following:

Do everything Barry_S says above.

1. If you decide to go with the Zoom, send an output signal to the camera as well, if you can.

2. Convert to 48KHz in a good audio program... when I convert rates using ProTools, I have no sync issues; NLE's vary.

3. If you have the Zoom output dubbed to the video, you can do a fair job of lining up the new audio by waveform. However, since your mics will not be on the camera, and due to in-camera audio sync issues, and delays in the Zoom, you'll likely want to hand adjust the audio a frame or two to make it look right.

[Guest]

Sound quality aside (48KHz vs. 44k etc.) Is it possible to 'keep' the audio in sync when recorded separately. (ie. to MD, DAT, LAPTOP) I have read issues and have experienced myself, sync problems in post. Lining up wave forms is fine, i go by ear or eyeball mouth and sound. BUT it will eventually lose sync because of the difference in Timecode. My set-up will not allow me to record audio to the same device. The Sony TRV900 i am using has bad heads. I don't trust them. So that is why i am recording to a separate device.

Is there software that I can use LIVE that will record with the same timecode that the video would use? For instance if i were to record the audio straight into my laptop. I thought about using FCExpress' Voiceover by placing 1 hour slug for the video track and then just recording audio onto that as if it were a voiceover BUT that only records mono (or i haven't figured that out) Doing this i thought would keep timecode the same, meaning in the video realm. I don't think it is as easy as that. Or is it?

So is there software out there made just for that purpose. TO record live and keep timecode the same.

any help would be great.

another option i'm guessing is to just Borrow a working camera and use that as the audio recorder. I can't get a new camera at this time. But soon.

[Guest]

I just realized that 44k vs. 48k would make a difference in the physical length of the audio clip. Will it? I'm confused on that front.

So what i'm trying to say is:

at the gig

1) I record the live audio separate from video on MD, DAT, Laptop @ 44K

2) I then capture video, including audio recorded with camera (for reference for syncing)

In Post:

3) a) Capture audio from MD or DAT. This is done from Audio Outs/Headphone Out on md/dat to Audio Ins on MAC desktop via sound program such as Sound Studio or something like that then convert to 48K, and import into Final Cut for syncing and further editing.

b) If already captured onto harddisk (laptop), convert to 48K, and import into Final Cut for syncing and further editing.

Result:

4) Lost sync after unknown amount of time. But i can fix by re-syncing every so many minutes. No big deal. BUT my question is...

IS there another method to do this without having to do it in the timeline.
Like a device or because of money, software that can do this while it is being recorded live.

does this make sense?

thanks for any info.

[ullanta]

Well, I'll repeat:

When I record to ProTools, and use ProTools (when necessary) to convert to 48KHz, I have little or no problem with audio drift in Final Cut Pro, on projects where I usually have uninterrupted segments of about an hour of sync-sensitive classical music.

Using a cheap minidisc, outputting to analog, to the Mac, with the standard O/S sound input (or freeware), I can sure imagine would be far more susceptible to timing issues. You're going through two additional digital/analog conversions, each subject to timing differences, as well as other factors in the extra conversions.

So: good, reliable hardware, and a single A/D conversion will be better. Perhaps, if you have a DAT, you can get an interface that will allow you to import sound digitally into the computer... they'll usually come with better software, too...

[ian lucero]

ullanta

thanks for the info. that makes sense. I know i am using a cheap method of capturing audio. I'm hoping to not go this route for very long. I'm trying to learn more about better audio and am researching the right gear here and on 2-pop.

for right now i'm stuck with my old set-up which consist of a TRV900, Kenwood MD, Pismo laptop, and AT822. This is my travel everywhere set-up. I get desent results. Good enough for the web, some dvd, and grant proposals. BUT not good enough for a full-length high-quality whatever.

dvxuser.com and 2-pop have been very very helpful. If there are other sites similar to these that you could point me in, I'd appreciate it.

btw- i'm finally a registered user.

[ullanta]

Cool - I definitely understand both cost constraints and not mucking with what works...

To address your sync issues with as little change as possible, I'd suggest finding a way to transfer your MD's digitally... beg, borrow, or steal time on an MD deck that has digital out and a computer that can turn that digital signal into a file you can import into your NLE. That way, your travel setup can remain the same.

Mind you, I'm not sure this'll fix all your sync problems... just something to try if you can... it can't help but improve the situation at least somewhat...

Good luck, and let us know,

-Barry

[ian lucero]

No luck finding software that helps with syncing.

I talked to my audio friend and says to just record as cleanly as possible, etc. and then bring it in digitally. So this means i will have to dish out the $$ for a good audio card with optical I/O for the MD recorder i want to get. OR! save up on a good HD recorder. I will also need to get a good mic preamp.

back to 'WORK'