at 897 vs. k6/me66/64

[xopoe]

hi,

i was all set to get the at 897 (good reviews, cheap, short), but then i started reading about a cardiod or hyper cardiod being better than a shotgun for small reflective rooms. shooting short narrative films in nyc, where practical locations are always small, i'm beginning to think i would be better off with the k6/me66 for starters (exteriors and effects gathering) and then adding the me64 later (interiors). this would give me a lot of flexibility for relative low cost (k6/me66 alone however is more expensive than at897).

thanks!

also, any advice on a decent (not more expensive than the mic itself) shock mount? i want the flexibility for boom, camera and shotgun.

[magicdavek]

Read deeper into this section as this has been covered. The gist seems to be for small reflective rooms the ME66 gives too much reverb (even though in theory it shouldn't). The ME64 does better, and users of the AT897 seem pleased with its performance in those situations. That's my summary based upon memory of a few threads dealing with this topic.

[xopoe]

thanks for the advice; i hadn't been able to find posts commenting on the AT897 as an interior mic for small, cramped locations. reading up on the me66 and me64 made me think that perhaps i would be expecting too much from the at 897. i shoot about half interior, half exterior. but you're saying the AT897 handles better than the me66 for interiors? but not as good as the me 64? sorry i wasn't able to find those threads. if anyone could point me in the right direction, much appreciated. thanks.

[24Peter]

Yesterday I shot for about 7 hours in a small one room apartment here in Los Angeles. There was a couch and thin carpet but the walls were bare and the ceiling low (moderately to highly reflective I'd say.) The AT897 worked great. I did notice the mic has a very narrow pick up pattern (at least compared to my Azden SGM 1X). Your boom operator had better be accurate with his/her "aim" to get the best sound.

[DVX100Shooter]

Barry_S posted this rundown below in another forum. It should answer your questions about mics.


Here's a brief rundown of some respected shotgun mics. *This is not a comprehensive list, but it should give you an idea of what range you want to be in.
*
*
Audio-Technica AT897 -- ~$280 *Good low-priced shotgun. *Sensitivity is not great, but can produce good quality, if not natural sounding dialogue.
*
Sennheiser ME66/K6 -- ~$300 *High sensitivity, low self-noise, the ME66 is good for ENG or non-critical applications. *The ME66 can record intelligible speech under difficult conditions, but does not have a natural sound. *A benchmark for producing clean, good dialogue for low budget productions. *The K6 module can be used with other microphone capsules including the ME64 cardioid and ME67 long shotgun.
*
Audio-Technica AT4073a -- ~$500 *This shotgun has high sensitivity and a good overall, but not warm sound. *
*
Sennheiser MKH-416 -- ~$1000 *High sensitivity with a fairly full sound for a shotgun. *Up to top professional standards.
*
Neumann KMR81i -- ~$1200 *Top quality shotgun with very neutral and natural sound. *
*
Sennheiser MKH-60 -- ~$1400 *Outstanding mic with some of the most natural tone possible from a shotgun. *Frequently used on big budget film productions.
*
Schoeps CMC641 Set -- ~$1400 *This setup includes the highly respected MK41 super cardioid capsule. *while not a shotgun, this mic is highly directional and will produce the most natural and uncolored sound of any mic used for dialogue recording. *Also frequently used on big budget productions.
*
Important note: *A shotgun microphone may be a poor choice for a small sound-reflective room. *Shotgun mics (particularly sub $500 ones, but all to some degree) can color off-axis sound and cause problems with reverb in small or reflective rooms. *Hyper or super cardioid mics are directional, but lack the strange off-axis coloration that can be a problem with shotguns.

[xopoe]

i read this post, but i was looking for more info on the AT897 specifically, comparing it directly to the me66/64 combo.
is there an audio technica me64 equivalent (hyper/super cardiod) of the same price/build/quality as the AT897? it does seem like people are relatively happy with the AT897 for both indoor and outdoor (i should have mentioned that i shoot mostly narrative), but it seems that at $275, it's just too good to be true for an 'all purpose' mic, something i'm learning is not supposed to exist. i'm sure the k6/me66/64 combo ($650) would be better than just the at897, but at more than twice the cost, i wanted to know just how much better.

i want to do my (basic) audio package right, but i also want to save some beans if possible for the rest of the audio package, as well as a tripod.

[oleg]

for 650 ( maybe 50$ more), i think that the at-4073 + octava mco12 with hc head is much better solution
you have 2 mikes ( sometimes you even need more :-))
, you have better mikes (good octava is a very nice mike , bad octava is bad)
you can put one on the camera and put the secend on the boom :-)

[DVX100Shooter]

for $795 you got the Sanken CS-1. I am hearing good things about this mic and for $795 you ought to be hearing good things! I believe its a short shotgun mic too.

[xopoe]

thanks for the advice. as much as i would love to get those higher end mics, they're just out of my budget. like i said, i was originally all set on the at897 for $275. if i did the k6/me66/me64 combo, i would start with just the k6/m366.

i dug a little deeper on past posts (interestingly, i had better luck using google, instead of this site's search, to find old posts) and came across an excellent side-by-side of the me66 and mkh416 (acutally, on another site, but referenced by someone on this site):

http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/audio/tanaka2.php

now i wish i could afford the mkh416. i wish i could hear a side-by-side of the me66 and at897 as hearing them is much better than reading about them. in any case, after reading more posts, it's my understanding that the at897 is a slightly warmer mic (something i liked about the mkh416 amongst other things) than the me66, which i think would be better for my needs as i shoot primarily dramatic dialogue. am i just fishing for a justification for spending less?

thanks for the patience on a subject i know has been beaten dead already.

[DVX100Shooter]

Do you live near B&H or EVS or any other pro shops? If so, you could take your camera there and have them hook up those mic's in question so you could test and hear the mic's side by side. Take some headphones or see if they will let you use theirs for your test.

[Barry_S]

Go ahead and buy the AT897--I own the ME64/66 and have tried out the AT897 and thought it was fine. The thing about A-B comparisons--your hearing is very sensitive and can discriminate even small differences. However, both mics used properly will sound good and unless you jump up to another price level, the performance is not going to be hugely different. If you learn good recording techniques, that will get you 95% of the way to good sound--don't sweat the minor equipment differences.

[evil_edison]

Barry_S posted this rundown below in another forum. It should answer your questions about mics.
*
Sennheiser ME66/K6 -- ~$300 *High sensitivity, low self-noise, the ME66 is good for ENG or non-critical applications. *The ME66 can record intelligible speech under difficult conditions, but does not have a natural sound. *A benchmark for producing clean, good dialogue for low budget productions. *The K6 module can be used with other microphone capsules including the ME64 cardioid and ME67 long shotgun.


Just out of curiosity, where are you finding this combo for $300. The cheapest I can find is around $400 for both the ME66 and K6

[oleg]

Barry ptobably bougthit it in era that the $ was 90c for the euro,
some peole still living in the past :-)
in germany its still 300 euro
the good point -that tha america economy is ricing ,look how many Cadilacs running in uropean continent and this is have nothing to do with the Pistons:-)

[Barry_S]

Yeah, it does seem to be $400 now. I know I paid in the $300's, but I can't recall the exact price at the moment. AT always offers a lot of value in their mics, so I wouldn't hesitate to go for the AT897. That extra $130 is enough for a Lightwave Equalizer windscreen.

[evil_edison]

Dang. I was hoping you guys had discovered a great deal on the ME66/K6. Guess I'll have to keep prowling on Ebay :)

[xopoe]

if the me66 was $300, that would change things wouldn't it?
thanks for the feedback; i've decided to go with the at897, my original plan. if i went with me66 that would just bring me that much closer to 'why not just get the mkh416?'. eventually i will, but for now, i just want a decent mic. after all, i may decide after all this hassle that sound is best left to a pro with his own gear.