PDA

View Full Version : BANDING and UNEVEN GRAIN PATTERN



Lammy
05-04-2010, 08:15 PM
Guys, I need to check if this is just my camera or if everyone elses 550D has the same issue.

I notice horrible vertical banding and uneven noise patterns all the time on my 550D. At every kind of exposure. It's very subtle under normal exposures, but I've included stills I've taken demonstrating the presense of the banding... (I've raised the shadows of the image to prove my point). It's alot worse in video.

HTP off. Spot Meter Mode. Adobe RGB.


The Canon 550D, ISO200, Shutter 1/100, 50mm f/5.6: Ugly banding, uneven noise, and smear. (Blue bits are just lens flare, ignore them)

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8708/bandingcanon550dstill.jpg








Now let's compare it to a Nikon D5000, same settings, same lens, D-Lighting Off:
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1975/bandingnikond5000still.jpg






Anyone have the same issues with banding and any tips/settings to lessen it? I'm having to resort to abit of denoising and adding in extra noise/grain, which is annoying as hell. Thanks

Taylor Rudd
05-05-2010, 08:31 AM
Why are you pushing an image that far again?

Lammy
05-05-2010, 10:09 AM
Why are you pushing an image that far again?

As I said, it's present in normal exposures. Alot of people wont notice, but I do. It's just alot easier if I show you a pushed up image.

Type banding in google, it's everywhere and only seem to be affecting Canon's :|

Taylor Rudd
05-05-2010, 10:14 AM
Been dealing with it since my 20D. I try to avoid non-native / high ISOs and try to leave some leeway to crush the blacks a bit. Hopefully someone else has a more technical approach

Ian-T
05-05-2010, 10:16 AM
Yeah…I mentioned this couple of weeks ago in another thread on how this camera can be unpredictable with the banding. I had the cam since December and didn’t notice it the first few months. But every now and then it just pops up…even in good lighting. But really…not all over the place like in you pic.

Lammy
05-05-2010, 05:12 PM
Yes! it's really random! I don't understand. Even when the camera is just turned on, no over-heating. I don't even know which ISOs its best at, because I've seen it on ISO 100, 200, 400, everywhere.

Weird. Very weird. The best way around it is to have alot of detail on screen, so it's masked by sharp detail. But then I risk moire in video mode...

aeroboy
05-06-2010, 06:17 AM
could it be because you are using 1/100 shutter? This is interesting, i get lots of noise like this at iso above 800

Lammy
05-06-2010, 06:23 AM
could it be because you are using 1/100 shutter? This is interesting, i get lots of noise like this at iso above 800


I don't see how exposure time has anything to do with it though? I am using flash for those photos.

It's annoying, because I am trying to work at the lowest and supposedly cleanest ISOS at 100 or 200, but evidently, it's not really that clean at all...

cjwolff
05-07-2010, 01:41 AM
It's annoying, because I am trying to work at the lowest and supposedly cleanest ISOS at 100 or 200, but evidently, it's not really that clean at all...

Multiples of 160 are supposed to be the optimal ISO for this sensor. 160, 320 etc.

Lammy
08-14-2010, 05:44 PM
But it's not really optimal for the sensor, because using those intermediary ISO actually clip the Highlight Detail. And that just screams digital to me.

From what I can see, 160 is 200 (darkened), 320 is 400 (darkened).

Ah well. It's funny, Nikon cameras I've seen have more horizontal banding whereas Canon cameras have more vertical banding.

Only way I see is to crush the blacks as usual and light more of the shadows and pretend I didn't see it. Maybe my eye has gotten more developed over time, it's not like I'm pixel peeping either because I can see banding and grain and aliasing at a glance now.

No way around it unless I rent out the D3X or Phase One me thinks =]

bwwd
08-15-2010, 09:50 PM
both pics look bad and i dont know why youre not showing the problem in real conditions and how they ruin acutal useable shot cayse those 2 shots are terrible overexposed.
Grid is more easy to spot but i wouldnt want nikon gain visible too in my footage.Ive seen this canon grid on some shots in some conditions too but its not like OMG my whole film is ruined.Most peple dont care you know.
CAn you post acutal useable picture where canon grid destroyed your image?

Lammy
08-16-2010, 02:52 AM
Those are real conditions as I said. Most people don't care, you're right - but there's artistic integrity at work, otherwise we may as well be shooting on an iPhone 4 (which incidently do awesome stills and video)

The difference is my Canon 550D required alot more posting to fix the problem, which takes time, which costs money and is a false economy.

http://www.lammypictures.com/images/2.jpg

http://www.lammypictures.com/images/11.jpg

Jordan Scott Price
08-17-2010, 05:48 PM
From what I can see, 160 is 200 (darkened), 320 is 400 (darkened).


Are you sure? I don't have a T2i, but I thought it was the other way around for these chips: 200 is a derivative of 160, 400 is a derivative of 320.

At least, from experience with my 7D, the multiples of 320 are the "ideal" ISO's, but I'm coming from a primarily video standpoint.

Snapper123
08-18-2010, 09:25 PM
I have the exact same problem with my camera in video mode, and it shows up in the dark/blurred areas all the time. I also have this problem in my stills with the color red. I haven't figured out wether it's the codec/bit problems, or whether mine is noise banding, like yours, but overall this is unacceptable - it looks like a Iphone. And where there's problems in extreme conditions, there's problems when there's perfect conditions.

bwwd
08-24-2010, 07:57 AM
they look normal and nice ,so i dont get your problem.
But if you re really comparing 550d to iphone then i have nothing more to say in this thread.

Lammy
08-24-2010, 08:38 AM
they look normal and nice ,so i dont get your problem.
But if you re really comparing 550d to iphone then i have nothing more to say in this thread.


My problem was that I wasn't sure if my 550D was faulty or if my Nikons were really far better cameras (in terms of noise/grain).

I've now realised the 550D comes short in everything, with scientific mumbo jumbo to prove it http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/Camera-Sensor/Compare-sensors/%28appareil1%29/645|0/%28appareil2%29/587|0/%28onglet%29/0/%28brand%29/Canon/%28brand2%29/Nikon (http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/Camera-Sensor/Compare-sensors/%28appareil1%29/645%7C0/%28appareil2%29/587%7C0/%28onglet%29/0/%28brand%29/Canon/%28brand2%29/Nikon)


As to iPhone, yes it is totally reasonable to compare in terms of noise and banding at low ISOs. Think outside the box... watch the iPhone fashion shoot http://fstoppers.com/iphone/ ;)


I have the exact same problem with my camera in video mode, and it shows up in the dark/blurred areas all the time. I also have this problem in my stills with the color red. I haven't figured out wether it's the codec/bit problems, or whether mine is noise banding, like yours, but overall this is unacceptable - it looks like a Iphone. And where there's problems in extreme conditions, there's problems when there's perfect conditions.

But after noticing kinks in my work, and the kinks in the best of the DSLR video shooters, it seems like a universal problem that people accept (or don't notice).

I do think it's acceptable behaviour though, because it's so inexpensive afterall. I wont find another still+motion DSLR with full manual control for 700 =]

maarek
10-05-2010, 12:35 AM
Shoot in 160. It will push the banding lower into the darks and it will not do anything to the highlights. The camera does this operation with the raw sensor data, so it won't lose anything.

And disable highlight tone priority if you use it. It will push up the banding nastily.

abpanov
12-05-2010, 09:47 AM
I just noticed it today! I have Canon 550d and a Nikon D5000. It is interesting that I didn't noticed those bands earlier. I even tried to look for them in some previously shot videos, but had no luck for now... all videos are well lit, no shadows or anything. So I'm assuming now that this is something that just appeared over time, or not!?

Did anyone maybe find a solution?

maarek
12-14-2010, 03:16 AM
Do not use ISO values that bring up the darks (250, 500, 1000 etc). Use ISO values where the camera is either at native or is pushing the shadows down (160, 320, 640 etc)

That helps a lot and turning off highlight tone priority. The more on your camera is, the more it will generate noise. So keep it cool and battery full.

maranfilms
12-14-2010, 03:51 AM
I dont think he has the choice, Im pretty sure the 550d only has 100,200,400,800 ect... I dont think there's a way to get 160,320 out of the 550d. 7d yes, 550 t2i, No

skylaird
01-12-2011, 07:01 AM
Hello Lammy, London calling.

I've used canon DSLR's from before they became digital, and my conclusion is - the 550D and the Mk2 shoot the best video you can get right now, but as a still camera they are rubbish. Go for a Nikon or Pentax. Please.

LORD

Roadkill475
01-14-2011, 04:38 PM
Caleb Pike has a pretty good tutorial on getting rid of the horizontal banding. Might be worth taking a look:

http://dslrvideoshooter.com/how-to-remove-horizontal-band-lines-from-dslr-footage/

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, so this may have already been posted.

Thanks,

Alex