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ad777
04-07-2010, 03:38 PM
Hi, i wasnt sure where else to post this.

im looking for some advice on how to get physical effects of bullets hitting walls. im planning a film with a gun shoot out in a kitchen and i know i can do my coverage so you never actually see the bullets hit. howver, id like to really sell it if i can and get some wide shots or OS shots where you see the gun fire and then a bullet hit something.

id love to hear all advice, i know in hollywood they use small explosives and put them behind set walls. im a student filmmaker so i dont have much budget, but dont spare any advice because of it. i may be able to find a way to do it for cheap.

thanks.

Cassius
04-07-2010, 04:39 PM
Hire a pyrotechnics guy to do it right. Although I know how to do it with small explosives on the cheap, you're not getting any advice for that.

Your options really are limited. You can make a few hits with a modification of the blood filled condom, but with dust or whatever, and you can make a small airgun to shoot debris. But you'll be hard pressed to get more than a few hits like this, especially in the same shot. Maybe mix practicals with composited bullet hits in post. Detonation Films probably has some inexpensive stock footage of bullet hits that would be suitable.

Matt_asimspon
04-08-2010, 12:04 AM
id forget doing it on set, you do need a pyro sfx guy and that = $$$, or you wont get the insurance cover without. If your doing this with no proper liablily insurance i.e just jumping around in the kitchen,

its easy enough to do in post, ricochets, and dust hits are easily mapped on, if your shooting shaky cam, just make sure you have some good track matte points that stay in shot.

if your doing more controlled shots, make sure you shoot a clean plate, for each shot you do, then you can do an additional one with some bits of debris, on surfaces, then comp it in as the sequence progresses, that will really sell it.

all that stuff in Rambo is post work.
video copilot have a bunch of hd pre matted bullet hits and the like.

Jason Sanders
04-08-2010, 07:29 AM
look up sweeney capsules (dust hits)

ad777
04-08-2010, 09:35 PM
thanks guys, i live in moorhead minnesota so i dont think there is any pro pyroSFX guys for miles and miles. plus i wouldnt have the money.

if someone could point me in a better direction for the sweeney capsules that would be great. i googled it and see they are basicly dust filled paintballs, but where would i get this kind of equipment?

i hadnt thought of doing it digitally, im always more of an in-camera guy, but im sure with enough patients i could get something that would look good in a 3 second take.

the fight sequence will be shaky cam hopefully in a similar style to star trek.

any additional advice to doing it digitally would be great. i have limited tracking/compositing experience in after effects.

Jason Sanders
04-08-2010, 10:09 PM
http://www.rogergeorge.com/expendables/items/edswec/

I just ordered a 100 for my project. You have to glue these together.

ad777
04-09-2010, 03:41 PM
so you order the capsules, fill them with dirt or whatever, then fire them from an ordinary paintball gun? wont you see the capsule fly through the air on camera? i assume this type of effect wont work if you actually want to see a hand gun fire and see the bullet hit in the same shot.

Brickhouse Media
04-09-2010, 03:49 PM
You could use a slingshot instead of a paintball gun. Careful editing and BAM. Just don't put your eye out!

In his DV REBEL GUIDE Stu Maschwitz talks about how he used notecards, styrofoam and a BB gun for the shootout in his film THE LAST BIRTHDAY CARD. You should get the book-the DVD of the film is in it with lots of extras. It has TONS of info on sequences like this. Trust me...I'm in Paducah KY and we don't exactly have a ton of licensed pyro guys around here, either.

http://www.amazon.com/DV-Rebels-Guide-All-Digital-Approach/dp/0321413644/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270852879&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/DV-Rebels-Guide-All-Digital-Approach/dp/0321413644/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270852879&sr=8-1)

If you're rocking a LOW budget and want to do some digital FX check out FXHome...you can download some free demos here...

http://fxhome.com/ (http://fxhome.com/)

CameronMcC
04-11-2010, 06:24 PM
You could use a slingshot instead of a paintball gun. Careful editing and BAM. Just don't put your eye out!

In his DV REBEL GUIDE Stu Maschwitz talks about how he used notecards, styrofoam and a BB gun for the shootout in his film THE LAST BIRTHDAY CARD. You should get the book-the DVD of the film is in it with lots of extras. It has TONS of info on sequences like this. Trust me...I'm in Paducah KY and we don't exactly have a ton of licensed pyro guys around here, either.

http://www.amazon.com/DV-Rebels-Guide-All-Digital-Approach/dp/0321413644/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270852879&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/DV-Rebels-Guide-All-Digital-Approach/dp/0321413644/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270852879&sr=8-1)

If you're rocking a LOW budget and want to do some digital FX check out FXHome...you can download some free demos here...

http://fxhome.com/ (http://fxhome.com/)

i was going to reccomend the same thing. A few Daisy bb guns and all the cheap thrift store plates you can find

Peternap
06-23-2010, 12:53 PM
My first post and I probably shouldn't mention this,,,,If you handload, you can use empty Speer snake shot capsules filled with dust or dirt (I use graphite) and a light charge of Bullseye.

4100xpb
06-23-2010, 03:50 PM
My first post and I probably shouldn't mention this,,,,If you handload, you can use empty Speer snake shot capsules filled with dust or dirt (I use graphite) and a light charge of Bullseye.

That is a very unique idea that I imagine would produce some great looking shots. However (and I say this as a target shooter and former handloader myself) I - and I think most others here - would not encourage using live firearms as part of a film shoot, particularly when the actors will be doing a firefight. There are too many potential pitfalls - actors grabbing real guns instead of prop guns, loading the wrong ammo, double charges, someone's aim is a little off - the list goes on. And even if tightly controlled so the chance of something going wrong is small, the potential consequences are so huge, it's just not worth it.

I could see using something like this in a very small (i.e. director, camera op, weapons tech and that's it) and controlled background shoot, but if I had any actors on set I would not have live firearms there with them.

Sad Max
06-23-2010, 03:58 PM
Ditto. We haven't forgotten Brandon Lee already, have we?

Peternap
06-23-2010, 06:24 PM
Sorry! I tossed a coin as to say anything or not. There's a difference between being a one or two man crew on the farm, and having other people around.

Sad Max
06-23-2010, 08:33 PM
It's also a matter of at least one of the people you have around being a real armorer...

David W. Richardson
06-23-2010, 09:00 PM
To really look real, anything done on-set would pretty much need to put actual holes in the walls. I wonder if the OP really wants to do that. Digital is probably the best bet this time.