Home made Kino Part 1

[Zoomforce]

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[joachim]

any problems with flicker or noise?
I like your setup, looks very neat,
how much were the parts?

[Guest]

Ohh,

That looks sweet!

Very good design. Is that a Matthews baby plate? What a great idea!

More pics! (If possible. I know you're busy, so it's greatly appreciated).

By the way, I found the GE bulbs that one of the production studios uses in place of the Kino Flos. I found it at a LAMPS PLUS in town. They're the GE F40SPX35 bulbs. They're T12 bulbs and they are rated at 3500 Kelvin with a CRI of 93 (I believe). The GE F40SPX30 is 3000 K, but I've heard the 3500K renders indoor lighting better. Am I making any sense or am I just rambling. ;D

[Zoomforce]

Total cost was about $50US.

Thats an Avenger baby plate. Hands down, on ever item I have seen, Avenger makes better stuff than Matthews.

No Flicker and no noise.. due to the Electronic Ballast. The first identical light I made a few weeks ago I shot with for 12 hours and it worked fantastic.

[Guest]

Great work.

Avenger baby plate. Sounds good. I'll look them up. Thanks!

By the way, do you put the light on a regular light stand? Which stand? Is it top heavy? Do you have a pic of the light mounted to the stand?

[Barry_Green]

With a plate like that you'd have to use a stand with a rotating grip head. Otherwise you couldn't tilt the light into position.

[Rogue Crew]

Jarred, that looks sweet! Quick questions. Did you line the reflector trough with foil? The trough looks like its supposed to have ends on it - did you leave them off on purpose? Why the tape?

[Zoomforce]

tape is to knock down any reflections from other light sources.

There was no ends, thats the way it came.

And no foil, the white gloss does a pretty good job of bouncing by itself.

[Zoomforce]

With a plate like that you'd have to use a stand with a rotating grip head. *Otherwise you couldn't tilt the light into position.

if you didnt have a c stand, you can use a regular stand with a gobo/knuckle grip head. I use it on a Cstand with a gobo arm for the most flexibility.

[skippyfetus]

Awesome Idea, I've thought about doing that before. How many degrees kelvin are those phillips bulbs? I'd like to know what the footcandles or lux is about 9 or 10 feet away.

I bet someone that has a machine shop could take those parts and make a large square soft light that's like ten bulbs accross.

Why are Kino's so goddam expensive?

[J_Barnes]

Kinos are expensive because of their electronic balasts, not because of their construction, thats' why even Lowel can't undercut their prices significantly.

That being said, the design of their construction is pretty exceptional, and lets not forget that just about every lighting company and DIY filmmaker is putting efforts into copying the kino.

You've got to admit that they have an exceptional lighting system, even for the money they charge. Besides, their target market is the rental house and studio market, not freelancers and hobbiests.

[taubkin]

Kinos are light as hell and sometimes can even be taped in position. They are cool.

[J_Barnes]

AND...they pop out of the frames and still operate as bare bulbs. Making them even EASIER to tape into position.

I once taped two inside the greasy ventilation hood of a diner grill where I couldn't possably have put up another kind of light.

[Arcburn]

Jarred or Barry,

What would be the best cheap light stand to go with one of these home made kino's?

[J_Barnes]

Considering the baby spud, the most ideal stand would probably be a C+ stand with a gobo arm from matthews, avenger or american. It would cost more then the parts for the light, but it's probably the most used stand in the entire film industry.

There are a variety of different options available (arm length, stand height, turtle base, rocky mountain leg, etc.) so I couldn't tell you about prices.

[Arcburn]

thanks J

[Barry_Green]

thats' why even Lowel can't undercut their prices significantly.
I don't think Lowel tries to undercut anyone on price at all. Their stuff is actually quite expensive for what you get, and Britek stuff is usually much, much less than equivalent Lowel gear. For example, the Lowel Fren-L 650 is $400 at B&H. An equivalent Britek is $110. Even a B&M 650 only cost me $240 brand new.

The solution seems obvious: let's get Britek to manufacture electronic-ballast fluo's!

[Neil Rowe]

..now thats a very very good idea!

[J_Barnes]

Well, I understand what you're saying Barry about lowel vs. britek, but Lowel really entered the market making $100 lights. The totas, DP lights, and other lightweight broadfaced instruments have been their bread and butter for a long while now, so I think it's safe to say that they're positioned as a "low end" lighting manufacturer.

I'm just saying that if Kino was inflating prices in order to capitalize on their marketshare, Lowel would certainly be pricing their units at a point to try and steal away some of the flo market. The fact is that no one is really undercutting Kino's prices by a significant margin, and I'd assume that is because of the costs associated in manufacturing reliable film-worthy balasts.

We know it isn't the bulbs, and we know it isn't the instrument.

I don't like openfaced lights, so I've never looked twice at Britek, but a britek electronic ballast flo is something I could be interested in.

[Barry_Green]

Lowel's definitely low-end, no argument there! *;D

I just think people get the idea that because their name is low-end, their prices are low... and in my experience, for equivalent gear, Lowel is a lot more expensive than others. *They do have some clever designs, and their gear is certainly compact and portable and reasonably rugged. *It's not bad, it's just not nearly the value that many people assume it must be. *But you are right, the Totas and Omni's are more reasonably priced than some of their other gear, but even so, a lot higher than the competition, especially when you factor in all the very expensive accessories... an Omni 500w focusable open-face, with barn doors & lamp, is $210 at B&H, vs. the Britek 650 with doors & lamp at $105 at Rostronics. *Or the Lowel Softlights: a three-Rifa kit with stands & cases is $2000 at B&H, or you could get a JTL three-softlight Everlight kit for $495 at Adorama, including softboxes, stands and cases.

It just seems that pound-for-pound, equivalent-for-equivalent, Lowel charges way more for its gear as compared to the competition, even more than Kino Flo does for their gear as compared to the competition!

As for fluo's, there is nobody significantly undercutting Kino either. *The Diva 400 is actually quite competitively priced when compared with the CaseLite.

[Barry_Green]

http://www.dvxuser.com/image/fluro/fluro (8).JPG


Hey Jarred,

Image 8 won't show up, because the smiley-conversion algorithm is turning parenthesis-8 into the sunglass smiley. You might want to rename image 8 or disable the sunglass smiley so your picture will show up...

[dmitriandsnow]

Guys i was wondering what is the equivalent of a 40 watt daylight fluorescent bulb speaking in tungsten power.
I will be needing a pretty decent amount of these possibly around 10 i am trying to find out how much power i am messing with here.
I was looking at these bulbs here http://www.greenhome.com/products/institutional_sales/light_bulbs/fsl000007/

Jarred where did you get your bulbs along with the ballast and other features?
Let's not let this thread flood away.
Thanks !

[Barry_Green]

A 40-watt fluo ostensibly puts out as many lumens as a 150-watt tungsten bulb. However, the light pattern is much different: fluo's are inherently soft, with very quick light falloff. A bare tungsten bulb is extremely hard with very little falloff.

So comparative output is dependent on how far away you are from the light...

[PC]

Great design being a designer why didnt i think about it earlir?
Thanks and it really opened up my mind.

[Guest]

I thought about doing a kit like this but was turned away from the idea when I was told that the frequency of the even the electronic ballast (like the ones found at places like Home Depot) are quite a bit slower than the high frequency electronic ballast that Kinos are using. In other words they might still cause flicker problems at different shutter speeds. Could you to a quick test and run the DVX100 up and down thru its preset shutter speed settings and see if you pick up any flicker problems. Sometimes the flicker will look more like a color shift that is constantly fading in and out. If it passes this test let us all know the make and model of the ballast. Nice, clean build by the way.

Oh yeah another difference is Kinos give out more light/per watt then the consumer flos. How much more Im not sure.

[J_Barnes]

Another thing to consider is that these electronic ballasts available in hardware stores are VERY noisy...both acousticly (at high frequencies) and electronicly. You need to keep them far away from mic cables, camera cables, audio and video equipment or anything else attached to the same power or electronic network as your recording devices.

I've seen noise in monitors that were plugged into the same circuit as a fluroescent ballast.

Obviously some are noiser then others, and there may be some good ways of filtering the AC noise and shielding the ballast, I'm looking into both of those options for a light I'm building.

Just make sure to carefully check the light with your equipment before you get into the field. It's better to know where the noise happens ahead of time so you can eliminate it on set.

The best way to check for the color shifting you describe is to set up a camera and shoot a whiteish subject under a fluroescent for at least 5 minutes...then dump the footage into an NLE and watch it in fast motion. If there's color shifting, you'll see it in the background and on the white subject.

[DVX100Shooter]

Anything electrical to me is far fetched....meaning I don't have no experience making or building anything pertaining to something electrical...I darn blew my car up once trying to hook up some fog lights! With that said, is this process of making a home made Kino easy enough for some one with no electrical background to make?

[Guest]

Its a easy build but thoughs ballast have enough electrical power to KILL you if you wire it wrong or touch the wrong wires. Sounds like you may be better off skipping this project DVX100Shooter.

Jarred-
Let us know as soon as you do a flicker test. Thanks.

[DVX100Shooter]

Thanks Brett...you don't have to tell me twice! LOL!

[Guest]

Thanks Jarred...you do have to tell me once! ;-)

I'm only kidding. Im just overly excited and very interested in what you'll find out because if it works it will be one hell of a great light to have and Im sure to have a few of these things in my bag soon. Thanks.

[j]

I made a couple of these for use in a music video. I wanted the gritty green light w/ flicker. Problem was, the damned things are made too well. The light looked white and I couldn't *get* them to flicker! Even when put through a 650 dimmer. We ended up white balancing through 1/2 nimus green to get the look I wanted.

I also bought a third unit to take apart and wire the bulbs apart from the metal housing, encased in the plastic tubes and connected to the ballast w/ zip line.(like a kino can do) Forget it. Too much wiring. Way too complicated. Thought it would be simple. Gave up at 3am the night before the shoot (7am call).

The video can be seen at:

http://homepage.mac.com/erik_e/theneeds/

BTW, I believe the correct term for these lights are "ghetto-flo" lights.

-J

[J_Barnes]

I've had frustrating moments trying to get fluorescents to flicker as well. Flo ballasts don't operate at 120v internally, which is why most aren't affected by AC dimmers. Usually if you put a flo on a standard dimmer, it simply won't strike...as it needs the full AC to charge the lamps before lighting.

There are dimmable ballasts with the associated dimmer controllers, but they're not cheap...and they don't flicker.

The only way I've gotten a regular flo to flicker is by screwing with the contact until it started to arc slightly, causing a flicker. There's probably something simple you can do to the ballast to cause the light to flicker, and the only other thing I could think would work is to use old bulbs.

As far as getting a green look or a specific color, the ACM has a great section on commercial fluorescent bulbs. That'd be a good place to start.

[Barry_Green]

For a ghetto "flicker" look... how 'bout running a box fan in front of the light? Cheeseball idea, I know, but maybe it'd give you the flicker look...

[j]

<<<For a ghetto "flicker" look... how 'bout running a box fan in front of the light? Cheeseball idea, I know, but maybe it'd give you the flicker look... >>>

Yeah, but not if the fluo is a practical, plus you would have to get a fan bigger than 4'.

-J

[Guest]

The Philips F40T12 (as pictured above) has a color temperature of 3000K-3500, depending on model. See

http://nemesis.lonestar.org/reference/electricity/fluorescent/efficiency.html

for more details. For exhaustive details, it would seem.

Michael

http://www.michaelbernstein.biz/

[Shawn Murphy]

Total cost was about $50US.

Thats an Avenger baby plate.


What size is the plate, is 3" sufficient?

[Jarred Land]

yes 3" is fine.. jesus i lost this thread then just found it again. for all you who didnt know, Zoomforce was my old screen name.

[Shawn Murphy]

thx Zoomlander! ;-)

[JPatnaude]

If your trying to get a fan/shadow effect it wont work very well. The ghetto-flo light is too soft(diffused). You'd need a fresnel or ellipsoidal light to get those kind of shadows.

This rig would be great for doing interviews and matching daylight. You could work the lights up close, and no heat.

Nice.

Jeff Patnaude

[Keith]

Good looking plan... . My question is does this light work well as a key? If I had a Britek key for example, would this replace that?

If not, what is the main use for something like this?

[pmark23]

I've been experimenting recently with fluorescents, and have never seen any flicker or noise problems no matter which ballast is used (and I've tried many cheap chinese ballasts.) I think that now it's cheaper to make electronic ballasts than to use big pieces of copper wire (they're tiny and cheap too.)

Even lamp quality seems to have gone up, as with even the cheapest (again, Chinese) "daylight" lamps have very little green which is easily corrected in post.

I'm only a few hundred kliks from the Chinese border, so we're the first to get the latest and greatest in Chinese technology!

[JPatnaude]

Good looking plan... . My question is does this light work well as a key? If I had a Britek key for example, would this replace that?

If not, what is the main use for something like this?

Your KEY LIGHT of course is dependent on light levels elsewhere. It's your main source.
I'd think (or should say hope cause I plan to clear off my workbench and start building my own) that a 4x4 flourescent bank would make a nice keylight. Bounce card for fill...etc.. great for location interviews. Oh yeah.

My recommendation is to sand the back surface and spray on some flat black. Barn doors- need to work on that.

Jeff Patnaude :beer:

[Keith]

Thanks,

I picked up a couple of "graff lights" and was very pleased with how they worked out. I too am getting geared up to build a larger light 2x4 etc based on the graff light experience.

[Jarred Land]

My recommendation is to sand the back surface and spray on some flat black. Barn doors- need to work on that.

Jeff Patnaude :beer:


I did paint the back.. barndoors i bought the parts to but just didnt get around to doing it.

[Jarred Land]

thx Zoomlander! ;-)

wow brilliant name I like it.

[Justyn]

Anyway to get a diagram and/or written explanation of how to build this. I too once blew up a stereo in my car.


Also I'd like to make a series of these and possibly see if I can fix one of my blown videssence ballasts. Anyone know a repair shop for those. This is an old single fixure ballast for 55w lamps. I bought both on ebay from Flo-go .. they were their in store demo units. It could possibly just be a fuse, maybe?

[Justyn]

Hope it's cool to bring this back to life. I think some others might be interested in some knowledge from those already working with DIY flos. I would also personally love to request info on something more akin to an HMI or big key light?

This thread and the diamond plate DIY thread is awesome. Anyone bought one?

[JasonFox]

Anyone know of a plate to put on these that will mount directly to a light stand? I can go the baby plate/grip head route, but if there's one piece that will do the job of two, I'd like that. Assuming it's cheaper than the two combined, of course.

Also, has anyone done anything more advanced than foam core for barn doors?

Fox

[natxbrotha]

im sure you could make your own barn doors out of sheet metal.

[JasonFox]

I found this plate: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=324667&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

A bit expensive, but would allow for angling the light. I'm just trying to avoid using my c-stands as I only have three and would like to use them for other things besides lights. Maybe I should start a c-stand fund. Who's first?

Fox

[JasonFox]

Let me continue talking to myself:

Duh. I can use some umbrellas brackets I already have to connect the baby plate stud to a light stand: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=298709&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

You may now go about your lives as normal.

Fox

[Neopics]

Hope it's cool to bring this back to life.
Glad you did... it's something I've been looking into myself.

In particular, I'm trying to find a good source for high CRI tubes (90+ range).

[Justyn]

I think it's an awesome thread. I want to get a bunch of working lights for what I would pay for a kit. I"m not out to impress any client this year. Functional lighting at a reasonable cost is key here.

[HybridCreations]

Hey Jason,
You could either do that, or just get a knuckle like this one:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=153403&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

Run the baby plate into that and you're golden. Plus, I think you could find other uses for that I can't see using the umbrella adapter for.
-Ryan

[JasonFox]

Ryan,

Yeah, I would definitely rather have those knuckles, I was just trying to keep costs down for the moment. I'm doing three lights (2 bulbs each) and it will end up costing around $225 including stands before buying knuckles. Not too bad. Although I do need to take two of the lights back as the manufacturer didn't put the on/off switch on them. Weird.

I'll post pics when I'm done (hopefully this weekend). Adding egg crates and painting the backs with Plasti-Cote.

Fox

[HybridCreations]

I'd love to see what you end up using for eggcrate. I just got a couple of Matt's Flo's and I'd like to see if there's a cheap solution. Thanks.
-Ryan

[j]

There is surprisingly, Spare Kino black egg crates are like $20 at BH.

[HybridCreations]

Whoa cool, you're right J!
They got all sorts of cheap eggcrates.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=search&Q=&b=1346&mnp=0.0&mxp=0.0&shs=Eggcrate&ci=1&ac=&Submit.x=11&Submit.y=10

Now I wonder which size would fit on Matt's model. When they say "Single Fixture" and 15" does that mean that it's pretty close to the length of the bulb/light? I honestly don't know if I would really even need an eggcrate (cuz Matt's got that nice parabolic design). I'm gonna see how much of a problem the spill is on my short this weekend, but it's nice to know that there's some kind of cheap alternative.
-Ryan

[JasonFox]

I bought a sheet of eggcrate at Lowes (or Home Depot) for $10. Four-feet by, uhhhh, I can't remember. But enough to cover all three of my fixtures. It is white, though. And those Kino spares on BH look nice -- have to figure out what size is what, though.

Next is figuring out barn doors. Would like something a bit nicer than foam core, but I'll use it if I have to. :)

Fox

[235 Studios]

Let me continue talking to myself

So you hear voices in your head too? :cheesy:

I'm glad you brought this thread back up- I had no clue about it. This seems like a great DIY project, and I llok forward to seeing what you come up with this weekend- especially for the barn doors.

[Dennis Wood]

I've been using T8 bulbs in my DIY fluorescents. I bought a box of 24 Philips TL950's at 5000K and 98CRI (local electrical supplier, $140 CAN).

The T8's are 32 watts, and more efficient than T12's at 40watts, both in terms of power, and lumens.

The ballasts from my two tube fixtures ($20 on sale from Canadian Tire) are electronic, and dead quiet. No issues so far with interference.

I like the baby plate idea!

[Logan LeBlanc]

Zoomforce. Is there any way you could give us an identical item list (model number, watts, brand, etc...)? I really wanna make one of these and I would greatly appreciate it. GRACIAS!!!

[Erik Olson]

You can buy Coruplast (or other brands) corrugated plastic for the barndoors - same stuff Kino uses. 4'x8'x4mm is about $20 online.

It's easy to cut and drill. Attaching it is a simple matter of bolting or hinging, but finding those tiny gooseneck flex-shaft pieces Kino uses would be even better.

e

[JasonFox]

Overland - thanks for the tips on the Coruplast. I've been wondering what people use for doors (but have been to busy to ask). I finished 3 DIY flo's a couple weekends ago but still need to do the doors.

I've also wondered what people use for hinges since you want a little bit of stick in the hinge so they stay put. Obviously, I am deficient in my hinge knowledge.

Fox

[JasonFox]

Okay, I just looked up Coroplast (note the second 'o') and the company's HQ is a mile and a half from my office. Insert Twilight Zone music here. Have to find out if they have a storefront for the public.

[rikun]

Dude, where did you get the fixture shell? I've had my diy kino on hold forever since I can't find suitable shells or reflectors...

[dpc]

Where can I buy the shoplight fixture pictured at the beginning of the thread? Does anyone have a part number?

I've looked in a few home stores, but everything I've seen so far is too big and clumsy.

[JasonFox]

rikun, I assume you're talking to me. I'm just using Lights of America flo's from Lowe's. I got the ones that have black endcaps with silver on the backs and insides. I think they're a couple dollars more than the base model and are labeled as "stainless steel" or somesuch. I painted the backs with Plasti-Cote for a rubberized finish. I tried painting the inside of one with reflective silver, but the finish was pretty much the same as what they came with. I also tried aluminum tape, which was better, but it kept peeling off or sticking to the bulbs. Maybe it's just the brand I used. I dunno. I like what I've got, but could use a couple more. Or bolt a couple together with aluminum braces to make a 4-bank. Still need to work on the barn doors, though. Haven't had time.

[scannon]

Hi Guys:

I was inspired shortly after the orginal post by Zoomforce (Jared) so I built a couple of "Kino" like lights using fixtures I bought at Lowes. They are Lights America Shoplights. They come in white and what they call stainless but it looks like just a greyish-silver paint. The white cost $12.98 and the "stainless" $16.98. The fixtures take the 1" T8 and the larger T12 tubes, T8 Phillips soft whites have a color temp of 3000k (their spec) and the Natural Sunshine tube is 5000k there are also 4100k and 6500k tubes as well.

I mounted the lights to a 3' Avenger baby plate and attached them to my Bogan light stands with Photoflex umbrella clamps.


I am building another to kit out with four. They are very light and run very cool. I have not had any flicker on color shifting with this set up.

Here are a few pictures.

http://www.themountainresortproperties.com/graphics/tests/frame_grab.jpg

This frame grab shows a unit with 4100k tubes mixed with two 75 watt incandesant bulbs in the ceiling. No filtering, no cc in post, just white balanced with a standard white card.

http://www.themountainresortproperties.com/graphics/tests/kino_front.jpg

Here is a front view. In the background you will see the Lights America box and one of the "stainless" versions standing next to it. My wife says I have to apologize for the mess and has me tasked to clean up the garage now that I have lights to help me see the mess :)

http://www.themountainresortproperties.com/graphics/tests/kino_back.jpg

Here is a back view. I sprayed the back with Rustoleum Hammerd Black (this was a white fixture) to knock down glare but left the reflector area white. You can see the Avenger 3" baby plate . It was wider than the mounting area on this fixture but four 1/4-20 X 1/2 machine screws (2 on each side of the plate) hold it securely. In the background is a doorway dolly with a 8' Kessler Crane mounted onboard. It a sweet machine.

[Erik Olson]

Discovered today that the Coroplast stuff is available at just about any sign store. Just ask for a bit of corrugated plastic in black - it's used to make inexpensive outdoor signs.

e

[GenJerDan]

Okay, I just looked up Coroplast (note the second 'o') and the company's HQ is a mile and a half from my office. Insert Twilight Zone music here. Have to find out if they have a storefront for the public.


No...you need to find out if their dumpsters are in a locked area. :) You don't really care about blemishes for something like this, do you?

Even if locked up, you can probably work out a "buy seconds" deal from them.

[mdlis]

Scannon...

Is there any buzzing or noise whatsoever when the lights are on? I made one with a cheap T8 ballast that buzzes when you put your ear on the back.

[scannon]

Scannon...

Is there any buzzing or noise whatsoever when the lights are on? I made one with a cheap T8 ballast that buzzes when you put your ear on the back.

No there is no buzz or any sound audible. All electronic ballast are capable of interfering with wireless mics. So if you plan to use these with the DIY Kino make sure they don't interfere. I have shot over 20 hours of video with these lights with the DVX100b mic and my Rode NTG2 on camera and on boom with no noise interference. There is also no flicker in 60i or 24p mode. I have not placed my ear on the light so I can't say if there is a hum but let me say that in a quite room there is more noise coming from the DVX when turned on than the DIY Kino(s).

[zoostory]

Hi Guys:
They are Lights America Shoplights. They come in white and what they call stainless but it looks like just a greyish-silver paint.

I have a question, I bought this same unit, and I bought an aliance instant start electrical ballast. I am trying to connect them, one side of the ballast has two blue cables, the other side has one red wire, and black and white.

The light unit, on one end has two sets of red and black cables (one set for each socket) and on the other end one socet has a yellow and a black, and the other socket has just a red cable.

I am a little confused on how to connect the ballast to the sockets.

obviously, white and black are hot and neutral for the power cord. According to the ballast directions, on one end I connect white-black-blue for each socket. but what do I do on the other end, where I have a red cable coming from the ballast, and a red, black, and yellow cable in the sockets?

I have tried various connections, usually I get a very dim light, or one light on, or nothing at all.

Any help, or a diagram would be very helpful!

[JasonFox]

This might be a silly question, but why did you buy separate ballasts? I've had no problems with the ballasts that came with my LoA lights -- I just picked up another fixture on Friday, in fact.

GenDerDan - Ha! I'll have to check that out. Work has kept me too busy to investigate their offices. Maybe this week will be easier.

[zoostory]

not a silly question. I guess I assumed that a separate electrical ballast would perform better than the built in one. but if it works, I'm fine with that!

one other question then, if I use the built in ballast, how can I connect a power cable so I don't have to use the little beaded pull down switch.

zoo

[insanityfw]

I am going to add this to my list of TO DO projects, but I've never tried anything like this.

One question. What kind of heat comes off of these units? Can you strip the ballasts, mounts, etc. from the store bought units?

I would think that you could strip all the hardware from the metal casing and build something out of Sintra. Sintra is a great, rigid plastic that is light weight. The great thing is that you can heat it up with very, very hot water or a blow torch (carefully) and then mold it, so that you could make a custom inclosure for the tubes...maybe just like Kino's if wanted. Then when it cools down it become rigid again and will handle moderate heat without getting soft again.

Combine the Sintra case with Coroplast barn doors and you'd have a very light weight, rugged unit.

I might have to get into this, but it may take months at this point.

[JasonFox]

I admit it -- I use the beaded pull chain. It's not cool looking, but it works! You could also put an inline switch in the cord so you leave the pull chain on and just flip that switch instead.

Insanity - that sintra stuff sounds cool. The flos barely get warm. I mean barely. So heat wouldn't be a problem in that regard.

[insanityfw]

Thanks Jason. When I get a chance, I might dig into this project and see what Sintra can do. I used the plastic before to make molded body armor for a Boba Fett costume...no I'm not one of the Star Wars geeks (not that there's anything wrong with it). :) I just love to build things.

Here's a link to the Fett site, so that you can see what Sintra can do.

http://www.skaines.com/fett/

I can only imagine how light and professional the Sintra would allow the units to be made.

Best,

Jason

[JasonFox]

Dang, that's cool. And your login name makes a lot more sense now. The sintra would be awesome for making a 4-bank. My only solution at the moment is to tie to fixtures together with aluminum straps. It'll work, but it ain't pretty.

[insanityfw]

Dang, that's cool. And your login name makes a lot more sense now. The sintra would be awesome for making a 4-bank. My only solution at the moment is to tie to fixtures together with aluminum straps. It'll work, but it ain't pretty.

:) I'll take functional over pretty anyday....just like I prefer my women. :)

[PaPa]

but the light bulbs are 40 and 40 W right?

80 W is not all that bright me thinks, is it possible to see a still or osme footage using these home made kino's?

[JasonFox]

A 40W T-12 flo produces the same light as a 120 (or is it 160?) watt incandescent. So, yeah, you do need a fair number of light, but I've gotten decent results with just the three 2-banks I currently have. Only have boring focus chart footage the moment, though. If I turned those 2-banks into 4-banks, I think I'd be pretty well set. Also, I'm using an M2 35mm adapter, so I need more light than a standard DVX.

[Andrew Brinkhaus]

I am reviving this thread, because I need the info on if I can pick up the necessary parts from Home Depot or similar..."Zoomforce"???

[SilverWolf]

I am reviving this thread, because I need the info on if I can pick up the necessary parts from Home Depot or similar..."Zoomforce"???

AKA : Jarred Land

[Andrew Brinkhaus]

Haha, I know, hence "the quotations"

[Ari]

've been using T8 bulbs in my DIY fluorescents. I bought a box of 24 Philips TL950's at 5000K and 98CRI (local electrical supplier, $140 CAN).

The T8's are 32 watts, and more efficient than T12's at 40watts, both in terms of power, and lumens.

The ballasts from my two tube fixtures ($20 on sale from Canadian Tire) are electronic, and dead quiet. No issues so far with interference.

Also, every T12 fixture I have seen comes with magnetic ballasts. Its usually only the T8's that use electronic.

[PIMP]

is there a list of the items needed to make the kino?

[Ralph Oshiro]

Where did you buy your ballast?

[Carlos_E._Martinez]

A 40-watt fluo ostensibly puts out as many lumens as a 150-watt tungsten bulb. However, the light pattern is much different: fluo's are inherently soft, with very quick light falloff. A bare tungsten bulb is extremely hard with very little falloff.

So comparative output is dependent on how far away you are from the light...

Yes, but a bare bulb gives you a rather ugly light, so you have to diffuse it somehow, and then the falloff goes shorter too. So it's pretty much useless on most situations, except fo lighting a scenery.

Well, that's what I think at least.

[imageworx]

Home Depot no longer sells this fixture, and the replacement looks nothing like the original "Commercial Electric Shoplight". to me....Any Ideas??

[chiohkeh]

Home Depot no longer sells this fixture, and the replacement looks nothing like the original "Commercial Electric Shoplight". to me....Any Ideas??
I just got the shoplight fixture yesterday. You are right, they arent selling them at home depot, but the LOA shoplight is on sale at Lowes still. I got mine there for about $17. Home depot has the best selection of bulbs though.

[roscoe]

I bought a 2 bulb T8 worklight from home depot. It has an electronic ballast and I intend to overdrive the bulbs like explained here.

http://www.geocities.com/teeley2/overdrv1.html

Ross

[Carlos_E._Martinez]

A question I thought about yesterday: will an electronic ballast work with any fluo tube, if the wattage is not exceeded?

I mean a 36W electronic ballast will work with say a 30W fluo tube? Or the tube has to be a high frequency type?

[TeamJoeDawn]

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.8b069e73b0.jpg (http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?8b069e73b0.jpg)

How about a square or rectangular bank of CFLs? You could wire them to turn on in rows, much like dimming.

What are the drawbacks, as opposed to making these long flourescents, oh "shadetree-engineers" of the internet?????

I would think they would be smaller and more protectable when transporting,.. can't say anythinga bout the light output.

Give me feedback!

J

[TeamJoeDawn]

And also, when buying flouros for this purpose, what temperature should they be rated at to get as close to possible to natural light?

J

[ChainSmoker]

Hey J. Here is a DIY article showing you how to build a light box very similiar to your drawings. A few mods and you should be able to get it exactly how you want it. Hope this helps.

http://shutterbug.com/equipmentreviews/lighting_equipment/0600sb_doit/

[TeamJoeDawn]

Thanks, Rich..

J

[ChainSmoker]

No problem J. Hope the article answers some of your questions.

[Andrew Brinkhaus]

Anybody have any ideas on expanding this original design to accompany 4-bank? I know the only housing you can buy at Home Depot or Lowes is a 2-bank.

[Cool Lights]

Anybody have any ideas on expanding this original design to accompany 4-bank? I know the only housing you can buy at Home Depot or Lowes is a 2-bank.

When I was first investigating fluorescent use in video, before I did my Cool Lights DIY Fluorescent Video Lighting DVD, I just bought a 4 light fixture at Home Depot for about $45 and the electronic ballast was fine from both hum and flicker criteria. It was my very first fixture and whatever I found lacking in it drove me on to other solutions. I don't really like the control that 4 foot tubes offer. I will say though its a great solution for lighting backdrops pretty evenly.

I later showed this in the DVD chapter on "Off the Shelf Solutions" on how you could use a 4 foot / 4 light fixture and how it could be mounted on a stand. I even later modified it to include 2 more bulbs for 6 total by adding more sockets and 1 more ballast. See pictures below.

I wonder how much less you can really make one for? $45 + bulb cost is pretty inexpensive already.

[anthony jackson]

how much will you charge me to make me two of thouse set ups.

[brokenjack]

I'm a bit late to the party here, but I just built 2 DIY kinos, that kinda look like kinos, and I will post some pics soon, but I just wanted to mention that I built them around a system meant for aquariums, called Coralife. It's great, because you can pull the tubes out easily and use them individually. The ballasts also velcro to the back of the unit. It's very light. I was too lazy to read all of the previous 100+ posts in this thread, so apologies if someone has mentioned the Coralife setup before. I will get some pics up anyway soon I hope.

I started a new thread.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=103798